Anyone else writing up course descriptions?

[redsquirrel]

Well, next year is 7th grade. I promised myself I would start keeping high school worthy records starting next year. I really don't want to have to go back and piece it together at the end of high school, and I want to work through my learning curve before it really counts. So, 7th grade it is. However, 8th grade is looking tempting as a starting point.... No, I must start when I said I would!

 

I have a record book. I am even buying a timer that counts up so we can start keeping track of hours. I will be keeping a book list and a list of piano pieces. Volunteer work... field trips.... I dunno?

 

Anyone else doing this for the first time?

[Chrysalis Academy]

I do exactly what Wendy does. At first I tried listing "minutes spent" but was driving myself crazy! I dropped that column and I'm much happier now.

 

I guess you are thinking of time spent for counting hours for assigning credit, probably? I have been thinking about shifting to a more hs-like schedule in 7th grade, just to work all the kinks out before it "counts" - but that is just me being anal-retentively planny, because we're just starting 5th grade!

 

I love to plan to plan, though! ;)

[elegantlion]

I started doing a syllabus in 7th. It was nice practice. I haven't started them for next year yet, but yes, it feels nice to have a few years of practice under my belt.

[redsquirrel]

One high school credit is given for every 150 hours of school work on average. It can be a little less if you get through a high school level text in a school year. And, it will be a little more if labs are involved.

 

So, approx 150 hours spent on algebra is a high school math credit. I figure with a little practice I will be able to get a feel as to how we are doing in that regard. I thought the timer might help me get a better grasp of things.

 

I don't plan on making myself nuts or anything, but I do want to try it out and get a good feel of how we do.

[regentrude]

If you do not have to keep such detailed records for your state, you do not need as detailed notes as WendyK keeps; for high school, nobody cares what day your kid worked which pages from the math book.

 

I count hours for credit in an excel spreadsheet that is programmed to add times for each day as well as times for each subject. I keep one spreadsheet per month. There is room for short notes about topic/book/content, but these are solely for us.

 

I write up course descriptions. Those include: main text used, major topics covered. Major works of literature studied for English/history, supplementary reading; list of labs for science courses. Types of assignments, grading criteria, grading scale, final grade. these will be pared down when it is time to finalize descriptions for the college admission. I do this every semester for each kid.

We also keep a reading list and a list of field trips, plus keep programs from any live performances they attended, as well as programs from any performances in which DD performed herself. In addition, I keep major essays, math finals, science tests, history projects.

[regentrude]

So, approx 150 hours spent on algebra is a high school math credit. I figure with a little practice I will be able to get a feel as to how we are doing in that regard.

 

For algebra and other math courses, time spent is not a good indicator for what counts as a credit. There is a pretty good consensus about which standard material has to be covered in an algebra 1 course (or any other math course) in order to deserve credit, and you would award credit when your student has mastered this material , irrespective of how long that takes. Similar for sciences. You are done when the standard textbook (or major part of it) is done

 

I recommend that you pop over to the High school board where questions like this are discussed frequently.

[redsquirrel]

Um, I have been reading in the high school forum. That is how I learned about what constitutes a credit.

 

I understand that there is consensus regarding course content. I also understand that time spent on a subject is a good indicator for me as the teacher to know that we are spending enough time on the work. As I said previously, it isn't something to make me nuts. It is a tool to let me know we are spending enough time on literature or Spanish or Latin to count as a credit.

[Melissa B]

I keep a graded transcript and a list of resources used, separated by class, beginning in 7th grade. We don't do any classes according to time, so I don't need to worry about that and I don't do full course descriptions as it is unlikely I will need them. If I do, I feel confident I can pull them together based on the resource list.

 

For us, the bigger adjustment is the child's. I don't give any grades for K-6 classes so the pressure is on, come 7th grade. I just finished preparing my sixth grader's transcript for next fall. I set it up to include 7th-12th so I can quickly see where we are at. I'll drop off 7th and 8th (or maybe just 7th and put a footnote that 8th grade classes are not included in the GPA) once 12th grade is completed. My eldest enters 9th next year, so she gets the added pressure of maintaining her GPA. :) It is funny, they both commented on how short their remaining years at home look when they all fit on a single sheet of paper. I agree. :scared:

[redsquirrel]

:lol: I never even thought about grades. Sometimes, I make me laugh.

 

ok.... new thing to think about. I am sure there will be posts forthcoming. I've never done grades or tests or discussed a GPA. That might be a good thing to think about.

 

Toss it on the pile.

[SkateLeft]

I keep a graded transcript and a list of resources used, separated by class, beginning in 7th grade. We don't do any classes according to time, so I don't need to worry about that and I don't do full course descriptions as it is unlikely I will need them. If I do, I feel confident I can pull them together based on the resource list.

 

This is how I do things also.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yes, I'm thinking about the grades thing too, and was thinking of "grading" in 7th grade to get us used to that as well. The thing is, I'm not using tests as assessments of "finished" knowledge, but as teaching tools: if I have her do a test, I check it and then we go over everything she missed (and maybe do more problems if it is warranted); we don't move on until it is an "A" So do you give the grade they would have gotten before you did the extra work to make sure the material is mastered? Or do you call that a pre-test and then do a "post-test' for a grade after you feel confident that the lesson is well learned?

 

Probably also something you guys discuss on the hs board . . . I have lurked there a little bit but haven't ever chimed into a conversation. Feels kinda sillly with a 9 yo, but yeah, I'm definitely thinking about this stuff!

[2_girls_mommy]

Yes, I'm thinking about the grades thing too, and was thinking of "grading" in 7th grade to get us used to that as well. The thing is, I'm not using tests as assessments of "finished" knowledge, but as teaching tools: if I have her do a test, I check it and then we go over everything she missed (and maybe do more problems if it is warranted); we don't move on until it is an "A" So do you give the grade they would have gotten before you did the extra work to make sure the material is mastered? Or do you call that a pre-test and then do a "post-test' for a grade after you feel confident that the lesson is well learned?

 

Probably also something you guys discuss on the hs board . . . I have lurked there a little bit but haven't ever chimed into a conversation. Feels kinda sillly with a 9 yo, but yeah, I'm definitely thinking about this stuff!

 

This is an interesting thread for those of us just getting out of grammar stage and not yet ready to digest the high school board. Thanks for posting and for all who give answers. I do like the above. This year I have actually kept grades for math, and have used the first grade (the pre test in the example above) but have not moved on until the material is mastered. Really it is not necessary for me, but I am trying to get her to start to appreciate the importance of a test as we get closer to it mattering.

 

Anyway, interesting question. I have just started hanging out here and feeling comfortable getting ready for our next step. I am not ready to start reading the hs board. So I would love it if anyone has an answer to her question.

[lewelma]

I don't plan on giving course grades, ever. The purpose of grades is 3 fold IMHO.

 

1) to help a classroom teacher evaluate how much a student knows when there are many in the classroom, or to communicate with the parents where a student is at. -- I know what my student knows and what he needs to work on because of the intimate homeschool setting.

 

2) to encourage a student to learn. -- We do term tests in math and he is motivated to study and do well. But I don't give a course grade because that would not motivate him. He will be doing practice tests for external exams, but I will not count them for a course grade.

 

3) to help universities evaluate how well a student has done in high school. -- From what I have read, most universities ignore mommy grades and just look at external testing. So we will focus our effort on external tests.

 

For my ds, many small tests and quizzes stress him out. The sense of constantly being evaluated is unpleasant for anyone, and for my ds did not desensitize him at all to testing (we tried one term). However, external exams taken just once a year have not bothered him so far. He has done 2 for music in the past 2 years. Just depends on the kid, I guess.

 

Just another way to think about things.

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited May 31, 2012 by lewelma

[regentrude]

Yes, I'm thinking about the grades thing too, and was thinking of "grading" in 7th grade to get us used to that as well. The thing is, I'm not using tests as assessments of "finished" knowledge, but as teaching tools: if I have her do a test, I check it and then we go over everything she missed (and maybe do more problems if it is warranted); we don't move on until it is an "A" So do you give the grade they would have gotten before you did the extra work to make sure the material is mastered? Or do you call that a pre-test and then do a "post-test' for a grade after you feel confident that the lesson is well learned?

 

You will receive many different answers.

In our family, we teach to mastery.

For math, I give one comprehensive final exam for the semester. I give a pretest for review. If kid aces the pretest, kid is done. If not, back to reviewing. Then I give a different actual test. The procedure can be iterated. I never give the same test twice, however; the grade does not come from correcting wrong work, but from demonstrating mastery on unknown problems.

In sciences I give four tests per semester.

In English and history, I give writing assignments. The kids will work on their writing assignments, rewrite and revise, until i am satisfied that the paper deserves an A.

Daily work is for learning and is corrected, but not graded at all.

[regentrude]

We do term tests in math and he is motivated to study and do well. But I don't give a course grade because that would not motivate him.

 

Where is the difference? I mean, if you do a term test, student gets some kind of feedback, right? A number of correct problems, or a percentage, or a letter, or a number grade. So how is that not the same thing as giving a course grade?

 

I do not give grades for motivation either. But to be honest, I can not judge their cumulative long-term retention and mastery in any other way. Of course I see daily whether they can do their math - but the only way to see if they have mastered the concept long term is to give them a Final. I also see if DD can work her chemistry problems for the current section, but the only way to see if she remembers the stuff from last month is to give a test.

[Melissa B]

Yes, I'm thinking about the grades thing too, and was thinking of "grading" in 7th grade to get us used to that as well. The thing is, I'm not using tests as assessments of "finished" knowledge, but as teaching tools: if I have her do a test, I check it and then we go over everything she missed (and maybe do more problems if it is warranted); we don't move on until it is an "A" So do you give the grade they would have gotten before you did the extra work to make sure the material is mastered? Or do you call that a pre-test and then do a "post-test' for a grade after you feel confident that the lesson is well learned?

 

 

I give the grade the student originally received on the exam. Then we correct everything to 100%. I encourage studying before an exam and do not use exams as pretests. The corrections will not improve the current grade, but understanding the material (especially in a subject such as math) will certainly help with overall understanding and should be beneficial in following exams. I would worry that being able to correct exams for a better grade would bring about apathy in test taking and studying in general. I prefer that my children recognize that they do not understand something and be willing to correct the situation through study, research or discussion before taking an exam over the material. If I were to use pretests as a teaching tool, I would make sure the final test was not the same test, but rather a new test covering similar material.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I don't plan on giving course grades, ever. The purpose of grades is 3 fold IMHO.

 

1) to help a classroom teacher evaluate how much a student knows when there are many in the classroom, or to communicate with the parents where a student is at. -- I know what my student knows and what he needs to work on because of the intimate homeschool setting.

 

2) to encourage a student to learn. -- We do term tests in math and he is motivated to study and do well. But I don't give a course grade because that would not motivate him. He will be doing practice tests for external exams, but I will not count them for a course grade.

 

3) to help universities evaluate how well a student has done in high school. -- From what I have read, most universities ignore mommy grades and just look at external testing. So we will focus our effort on external tests.

 

For my ds, many small tests and quizzes stress him out. The sense of constantly being evaluated is unpleasant for anyone, and for my ds did not desensitize him at all to testing (we tried one term). However, external exams taken just once a year have not bothered him so far. He has done 2 for music in the past 2 years. Just depends on the kid, I guess.

 

Just another way to think about things.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Ruth and regentrude, I really do not want to give grades. I kept my 9th grader's grades all year but it was the worst part of homeschooling. I hated it!

 

I don't think grades are fair for homeschoolers. By my too-high standards he often earns a B, but our local school doesn't even study Plato's Republic, Biology, or Geometry in the ninth grade. I know it all evens out in the end, but the courses are apples and oranges right now.

 

What do I do about a GPA if I don't give grades? Can the end-of-the-year or semester exam grades count for the whole shebang? I'm confident enough about his work. If he gets below a B percentage-wise we stay with it until he improves.

 

Please, liberate me from the gradebook. Please say, "Yes, Tibbie, the exam grades can count for the whole shebang."

Edited May 31, 2012 by Tibbie Dunbar

[lewelma]

Where is the difference? I mean, if you do a term test, student gets some kind of feedback, right? A number of correct problems, or a percentage, or a letter, or a number grade. So how is that not the same thing as giving a course grade?

 

We started term tests in Math because of your persuasive arguments in previous threads. But in the end, his grade will be dictated by an external exam. AoPS is the only course material I am using that is not tied to the exams, so it *needs* separate testing. The early external math exams are easier than AoPS material.

 

I do not give grades for motivation either. But to be honest, I can not judge their cumulative long-term retention and mastery in any other way.

Yes, cumulative long-term retention is key. It will be tested by an external exam, rather than by an average of many small quizzes and tests. I am sure I will need to give term tests for chemistry next year to encourage him to study as he goes, but in the end the course grade will be dictated by the external exam not a mommy grade. Grades on tests that I give will show him where he needs to focus his studying, but they will not "count."

 

University entrance here is dictated solely by external exams, so there is no reason to give him a mommy grade in each course. He will take about 15 exams over the next 6 years, but not all things he is learning will be tested. For example, he loves history. We read historical fiction and nonfiction, watch documentaries, discuss, etc. I do no testing. He loves it and is clearly learning and I have no problem putting it on a transcript, but for this course there will not even be an external exam.

 

We are early on in this process and I may find next year when he prepares for the chemistry exam that we need more testing. But in the end, a mommy grade is pretty worthless here, and I don't get the impression it is worth much to the US universities either.

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited May 31, 2012 by lewelma

[lewelma]

Ruth and regentrude, I really do not want to give grades. I kept my 9th grader's grades all year but it was the worst part of homeschooling. I hated it!

 

What do I do about a GPA if I don't give grades? Can the end-of-the-year or semester exam grades count for the whole shebang? I'm confident enough about his work. If he gets below a B percentage-wise we stay with it until he improves.

 

Please, liberate me from the gradebook. Please say, "Yes, Tibbie, the exam grades can count for the whole shebang."

 

Last year when my son started asking about external written exams and got a few butterflies, I told him that he would do as many practice tests as he wanted until his grade was up to his satisfaction. THEN he would be ready for the final, cumulative exam. So the practice tests don't *count* but they are learning tools. This removes the stress of the exam and the practice tests leading up to it.

 

In university, there are typically just 2 or 3 grades that are in some way averaged to give you a final grade. In the British based system, High school students only take a final exam for each course - the external exam. And other tests and quizzes are used for the reasons I listed above in my previous post.

 

So, yes, give just 1 or 2 exams for each course if that is what you and your students desire. I think that a large percentage of students in school would not do well on a cumulative final. So either a cumulative final is not given, or all the tests and quizzes taken throughout the year get averaged in to what is often a poor final-exam grade and help to bring it up.

 

By my too-high standards he often earns a B, but our local school doesn't even study Plato's Republic, Biology, or Geometry in the ninth grade.

:iagree: We are really in an impossible situation. When I was in high school, I got As in every course every year. If I were to give those same grades to my ds, these mommy grades would be questioned.

 

Ruth

Edited May 31, 2012 by lewelma

[regentrude]

Can the end-of-the-year or semester exam grades count for the whole shebang? ..

Please, liberate me from the gradebook. Please say, "Yes, Tibbie, the exam grades can count for the whole shebang."

 

YES, TIBBIE, THE EXAM GRADES CAN COUNT FOR THE WHOLE SHEBANG!

 

Giving lots of small grades for daily quizzes and homework and attitude and stuff does not measure actual subject mastery. If anything, they dilute the actual grade. There is absolutely nothing wrong with measuring mastery once, with one exam, and basing a grade on that.

[regentrude]

Yes, cumulative long-term retention is key. It will be tested by an external exam, rather than by an average of many small quizzes and tests.

 

University entrance here is dictated solely by external exams, so there is no reason to give him a mommy grade in each course.

 

 

So, in NZ, you have mandatory external exams in every subject?

 

The external exams here in the US are voluntary; aside from the SAT or ACT, students can choose to take a few exams in a few subjects (SAT2, AP). Typically, students do not test in all subjects. And there are not tests for every subject.

 

ETA: My thinking (which may be wrong) is that if my student has a great score on the standardized tests, colleges will be inclined to accept my mommy grades as reasonable - even in subjects that have not been tested directly. A discrepancy between test scores and course grades, OTOH, would lead the school to be suspicious.

Edited May 31, 2012 by regentrude

[lewelma]

So, in NZ, you have mandatory external exams in every subject?

 

Yes.

 

You can use the NZ system, which has both internal assessment AND external exams to give a final grade in ALL courses in 10th, 11th, and 12th grade. The internal assessment is moderated by a national body so that all teachers grade in the same way. Teachers send in an example of tests/writing assignments and a sample of how they grade for A,B,C,D,F, and the moderators insure that there is consistency across the country in grading. You actually get a national class rank here. This is why mommy grades mean nothing, because homeschooler's grading practices are not moderated. There might be a few classes like art where you submit a portfolio to the national body, and don't take a written exam.

 

You can also use the British system here for university entrance. These are the IGCSE and A levels Cambridge International Exams. But for university entrance using Cambridge (what we will do), you need a certain number of points which are based on the number and grades of the exams you do. For entrance using this method, you do not need to take tests in all subjects, just score an "A" on 4 A-level exams or an "C" on 8 A-levels or something like that (It is more complicated than this. A-levels are like AP exams). You don't have to take the 10th and 11th grade exams if you don't want, and can just go for the A-levels.

 

There is nothing similar to SAT here. All exams are subject exams.

 

ETA: My thinking (which may be wrong) is that if my student has a great score on the standardized tests, colleges will be inclined to accept my mommy grades as reasonable - even in subjects that have not been tested directly. A discrepancy between test scores and course grades, OTOH, would lead the school to be suspicious.

Who really knows. From what I have read on the high school board, once you meet the academic requirements, getting into a top tier school is really a crap shoot.

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited May 31, 2012 by lewelma

[lewelma]

YES, TIBBIE, THE EXAM GRADES CAN COUNT FOR THE WHOLE SHEBANG!

 

Giving lots of small grades for daily quizzes and homework and attitude and stuff does not measure actual subject mastery. If anything, they dilute the actual grade. There is absolutely nothing wrong with measuring mastery once, with one exam, and basing a grade on that.

 

:iagree: I really think that for many students the goal of all the bitsy tests/quizzes is to dilute the final exam grade.

Edited May 31, 2012 by lewelma

[usetoschool]

ETA: My thinking (which may be wrong) is that if my student has a great score on the standardized tests, colleges will be inclined to accept my mommy grades as reasonable - even in subjects that have not been tested directly. A discrepancy between test scores and course grades, OTOH, would lead the school to be suspicious.

 

That was our experience when we were going through this for the first time - the woman at the university said they had a lot of problems with inflated mommy grades that didn't match the SAT/ACT test results. She wanted to see genuine academic courses (no basket weaving) with grades that lined up with test scores to be able to trust the transcript.

[regentrude]

:iagree: I really think that for many students the goal of all the bitsy tests/quizzes is to dilute the final exam grade.

 

Yes. Unfortunately, that is my experience as a university instructor as well.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

(OP, is this discussion helping you?)

 

I'm printing this thread. Thanks again to lewelma and regentrude for the input and experience!

 

I think my goal will be to use quarterly, semester, and final exams, and never mind the penny-ante fussing over numerical values for anything else.

 

I'm quite excited about this, and will spend part of the summer break getting the new system together.

 

:)

[2_girls_mommy]

I give the grade the student originally received on the exam. Then we correct everything to 100%. I encourage studying before an exam and do not use exams as pretests. The corrections will not improve the current grade, but understanding the material (especially in a subject such as math) will certainly help with overall understanding and should be beneficial in following exams. I would worry that being able to correct exams for a better grade would bring about apathy in test taking and studying in general. I prefer that my children recognize that they do not understand something and be willing to correct the situation through study, research or discussion before taking an exam over the material. If I were to use pretests as a teaching tool, I would make sure the final test was not the same test, but rather a new test covering similar material.

 

This is how I have been doing it and is close to my thoughts on the matter too. Though for now the tests don't really matter, and she knows that. I guess as the stakes get higher, she will be aware.

 

ETA.. this is for P.S. accredited schooling of course, not for hsers.

Edited May 31, 2012 by 2_girls_mommy

[Sebastian (a lady)]

(OP, is this discussion helping you?)

 

I'm printing this thread. Thanks again to lewelma and regentrude for the input and experience!

 

I think my goal will be to use quarterly, semester, and final exams, and never mind the penny-ante fussing over numerical values for anything else.

 

I'm quite excited about this, and will spend part of the summer break getting the new system together.

 

:)

 

What about a combined assessment of a long term project (which would demonstrate synthesis of material, without having to memorize every date or definition) and an exam (which would measure retention of facts as well as ability to do processes). I could also see having large papers as a graded item in history, lit and even some science courses.

 

FWIW, our state has end of course (EOC) exams for a bunch of high school courses. I will probably give my kids exams based partly on their algebra books and partly on the EOC exam.

 

However, I was looking at the most recent released exam. You can get 26/50 correct and pass. 45/50 correct is advanced level. And this is on a multiple choice test.

[2_girls_mommy]

So, in NZ, you have mandatory external exams in every subject?

 

The external exams here in the US are voluntary; aside from the SAT or ACT, students can choose to take a few exams in a few subjects (SAT2, AP). Typically, students do not test in all subjects. And there are not tests for every subject.

 

.

 

Not in our state. Kids can pass the classes with good grades, but we have mandatory external testing to graduate. So even if they pass all of high school they can't graduate if they can't pass the basic tests. I do not believe they are in all subjects (like electives..) but they are basic proficiency tests.

 

ETA.... I am only speaking of public accredited schools here, not homeschools. It is just a new thing in our state, and I find it interesting.

Edited June 5, 2012 by 2_girls_mommy

[Chrysalis Academy]

(OP, is this discussion helping you?)

 

I'm printing this thread. Thanks again to lewelma and regentrude for the input and experience!

 

I think my goal will be to use quarterly, semester, and final exams, and never mind the penny-ante fussing over numerical values for anything else.

 

I'm quite excited about this, and will spend part of the summer break getting the new system together.

 

:)

 

I hope it is helping the OP, it sure is helping me! ;) Thank you, lewelma and regentrude, you are two I look to for advice about the years ahead, for sure!

[redsquirrel]

(OP, is this discussion helping you?)

 

 

:lol:

 

Well, it gives me lots more things to worry about. I have been thinking for a while that it might be a good idea to 'grade' my son, if only to let him see what it feels like to work towards an academic goal.

[KarenNC]

sorry, hit a wrong button and duplicated the post rather than editing it!

Edited June 1, 2012 by KarenNC

[KarenNC]

I started doing more grades this year, as well as doing a basic syllabus for each course (turning them all into a "do the next thing" kind of format for my convenience). So far, I have only graded in the subjects where that was easiest for me---curricula that have included periodic tests. That means she has grades in life science, vocabulary, grammar, spelling, and math. Vocabulary, grammar and math are cumulative, science has not been this year. I may add in mid-terms and finals for that next year.

 

It's been an eye-opening experience for her. The first life science test went as follows:

Thursday: "You have a science test on Monday. I strongly suggest that you study the material between now and then to get ready. You have your study guide, chapter review, reading notes, and the textbook. Let me know if you have any questions."

Friday: "Don't forget there's a test on Monday."

Sunday: "We'll start with your science test tomorrow."

Monday: "You got a 67.5 on your test, which is failing. How are we going to fix this?"

"Can't I take it over?"

"No. We'll go over the ones you missed so that you understand them, but your grade is your grade and it'll be averaged with all the other test grades for the remainder of the year. Now, what could you have done that might have helped you do better on this test?"

"Studied?"

"That would certainly be a good place to start. What could you have used to study?"

and so on.

 

Since that point, her science grades have mostly been in the 90s, and only one has been as low as 81. I have her average her grade after each test, both to help reinforce math lessons on averaging and to see how that one low grade continues to matter. Overall, it's been a very positive experience, as she likes to see how well she's done. She's also now motivated to actually study (and to do so without constant reminders). In a way, I think it also gives her more common ground with her friends who are in public school---they can commiserate about how much homework they have, having to study for tests, etc. That's not a reason I chose to do this, but it is a nice side effect.

 

She'll be taking her first outside class that involves deadlines and grades next year (a writing class), so I wanted to get her thinking along those lines. I'm also getting myself ready for either homeschooling high school or providing a transcript if she goes to a public high school. Along those lines, I also instituted homework (independent work) assignments this year with firm deadlines.

[missmoe]

Would anyone care to share what a course description looks like?

[regentrude]

Would anyone care to share what a course description looks like?

 

That can vary a great deal. It can be short, like this:

Algebra 1. Textbook: Art of Problem Solving - Introduction to Algebra. this course covers the fundamental concepts of algebra, including exponents and radicals, linear equations and inequalities, ratio and proportion, systems of linear equations, factoring quadratics, complex numbers, completing the square, and the quadratic formula.

or it can be a whole page long and detailed, like this:

 

World Literature I and World History I: Ancient Greece and Rome

1 credit English, 1 credit History

Textbook: A Short History of Western Civilizations by John Harrison and Richard Sullivan

The student studied the following major works:

The Iliad Homer (translated by Fitzgerald)

The Odyssey Homer (translated by Fitzgerald)

Histories Herodotus

Antigone Sophocles

Oedipus Rex Sophocles

Oedipus on Colonos Sophocles

Electra Euripides

Poetry Sappho

The Aeneid Vergil

Metamorphoses Ovid

Trial and death of Socrates Plato

 

The student listened to college level audio lectures by the Teaching Company:

The Iliad (12 lectures)

The Odyssey (12 lectures)

The Aeneid (12 lectures)

Greek Tragedy (11 selected lectures)

Classical Mythology (24 lectures)

Each lecture is 30 minutes in length and taught by Prof. Elizabeth Vandiver

 

Evaluation: writing assignments, Final Exam

[Cosmos]

I started doing more grades this year, as well as doing a basic syllabus for each course (turning them all into a "do the next thing" kind of format for my convenience). So far, I have only graded in the subjects where that was easiest for me---curricula that have included periodic tests. That means she has grades in life science, vocabulary, grammar, spelling, and math. Vocabulary, grammar and math are cumulative, science has not been this year. I may add in mid-terms and finals for that next year.

 

It's been an eye-opening experience for her. The first life science test went as follows:

Thursday: "You have a science test on Monday. I strongly suggest that you study the material between now and then to get ready. You have your study guide, chapter review, reading notes, and the textbook. Let me know if you have any questions."

Friday: "Don't forget there's a test on Monday."

Sunday: "We'll start with your science test tomorrow."

Monday: "You got a 67.5 on your test, which is failing. How are we going to fix this?"

"Can't I take it over?"

"No. We'll go over the ones you missed so that you understand them, but your grade is your grade and it'll be averaged with all the other test grades for the remainder of the year. Now, what could you have done that might have helped you do better on this test?"

"Studied?"

"That would certainly be a good place to start. What could you have used to study?"

and so on.

 

Since that point, her science grades have mostly been in the 90s, and only one has been as low as 81. I have her average her grade after each test, both to help reinforce math lessons on averaging and to see how that one low grade continues to matter. Overall, it's been a very positive experience, as she likes to see how well she's done. She's also now motivated to actually study (and to do so without constant reminders). In a way, I think it also gives her more common ground with her friends who are in public school---they can commiserate about how much homework they have, having to study for tests, etc. That's not a reason I chose to do this, but it is a nice side effect.

 

She'll be taking her first outside class that involves deadlines and grades next year (a writing class), so I wanted to get her thinking along those lines. I'm also getting myself ready for either homeschooling high school or providing a transcript if she goes to a public high school. Along those lines, I also instituted homework (independent work) assignments this year with firm deadlines.

 

I've been making some of these shifts as well. Ds has had test in some subjects for the first time this year. Next year he will have tests in more subjects as well as cumulative grades (per semester? per year? not sure yet).

 

One thing I have realized that I need to do is build time into our schedule both for him to study and for me to give some direct instruction on study skills. He has some of it -- outlining, for example -- but he doesn't have a very cohesive idea of how to study a topic or prepare for an exam. So, for 7th grade I'm going to be building some "study hall" time into his schedule expressly for that purpose. And I'll be doing some research this summer to refresh my memory about just what good study skills look like.

 

Re: the bolded. Same with my ds. :) Not so much commiseration with peers -- he and his friends never seem to talk about school -- but identification with his idea of school from books and movies. He frets about the tests some, but it's really just theatrics. He enjoys them and seems to like the "officialness" that testing adds to his school.

[Candid]

Ruth and regentrude, I really do not want to give grades. I kept my 9th grader's grades all year but it was the worst part of homeschooling. I hated it!

 

I don't think grades are fair for homeschoolers. By my too-high standards he often earns a B, but our local school doesn't even study Plato's Republic, Biology, or Geometry in the ninth grade. I know it all evens out in the end, but the courses are apples and oranges right now.

 

What do I do about a GPA if I don't give grades? Can the end-of-the-year or semester exam grades count for the whole shebang? I'm confident enough about his work. If he gets below a B percentage-wise we stay with it until he improves.

 

Please, liberate me from the gradebook. Please say, "Yes, Tibbie, the exam grades can count for the whole shebang."

 

Might I horn in here?

 

I plan not to give grades either. Of real live people that I know the only one who got into a fairly selective school (ranked in the top 30 universities) did so on a nonstandard transcript that the student wrote (and the university did not know he wrote it). I suspect that he got a long way in by his SAT score. So I definitely agree with this:

 

ETA: My thinking (which may be wrong) is that if my student has a great score on the standardized tests, colleges will be inclined to accept my mommy grades as reasonable - even in subjects that have not been tested directly. A discrepancy between test scores and course grades, OTOH, would lead the school to be suspicious.

 

In Admissions Confidential, the author, a Duke admissions officer, says that the one thing they looked closely at is teacher recommendations and quality of the essays turned in. Too good an essay can raise concerns if the recommendations seem to indicate the student is not a strong writer. So, I suspect with mommy grades. If you want to say you teach to mastery and give your student all high grades you better make sure their SAT reflects that. If not you may undermine your whole admissions package.

 

However, my son is also partially interested in college athletics, we don't think he'll get a scholarship but might walk on. Either way, I think he'll need to make the NCAA happy which means I'll have to come up with a basic transcript and grades.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Candid

[KarenNC]

I don't think grades are fair for homeschoolers. By my too-high standards he often earns a B, but our local school doesn't even study Plato's Republic, Biology, or Geometry in the ninth grade. I know it all evens out in the end, but the courses are apples and oranges right now.

 

Your local private schools are probably also not teaching the same things as your local public schools. I was under the impression that this is where course descriptions are useful, to show what the course included.

 

What do I do about a GPA if I don't give grades? Can the end-of-the-year or semester exam grades count for the whole shebang? I'm confident enough about his work. If he gets below a B percentage-wise we stay with it until he improves.

 

I don't see why you couldn't simply use one or two grades to determine course grade, if you prefer--it's still reporting grades. The only grade that one reports on a transcript is the final one for each course, AFAIK. The GPA is only related to the student's performance in his own courses, not students in the local public or private schools (unlike, evidently, NZ), so there shouldn't be an issue. Having only one cumulative exam that determines his grade, as long as that is an actual final with no chance to change the grade, will definitely prep him for the pressure of college classes, where that may be the case.

 

As for the B percentage, do you mean that you don't end the course until he can make a B or better on the final? If that's the case, in my situation, I would be concerned that this is not prepping my daughter for the kind of grading and expectations she will encounter in outside classes (either in high school, dual enrollment, college, etc). I expected that she would have a learning curve when presented with deadlines, tests and no "do-overs" so that there was pressure to be adequately prepared the first time around. Honestly, I want her to experience any failures while on my watch, and preferably before reaching high school. That's why we've started with syllabi, homework, deadlines, tests, etc. I consider it part of learning study skills.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

As for the B percentage, do you mean that you don't end the course until he can make a B or better on the final? If that's the case, in my situation, I would be concerned that this is not prepping my daughter for the kind of grading and expectations she will encounter in outside classes (either in high school, dual enrollment, college, etc). I expected that she would have a learning curve when presented with deadlines, tests and no "do-overs" so that there was pressure to be adequately prepared the first time around. Honestly, I want her to experience any failures while on my watch, and preferably before reaching high school. That's why we've started with syllabi, homework, deadlines, tests, etc. I consider it part of learning study skills.

 

This is a very good point. I apologize for not being clearer. As a person very new to all of this I don't want to give the wrong impression to other newbies reading along. I want my grading system to reflect the seriousness of my child's studies, not to excuse poor performance.

 

So far my ninth grader has only scored lower than a B on one science test, two geometry tests, and three Spanish tests. In each case I made him re-do the lesson until he understood it, but the original low grade remained on the record.

 

No, I don't mean that he gets to keep trying at tests until he gets a good grade for his record. He has syllabi/schedules, assignment sheets and deadlines, and low grades and zeroes are recorded. He wants a good GPA for some of his outside activities, so I'm not skipping grading altogether, and he's probably college-bound so I'm not willing to coddle him.

 

My question was just whether I could record the test grades only instead of also keeping grades for every little assignment, project, or quiz. I think that's what I'll do. This year I did record all the little things and I hated that! I'd rather view the daily homework, projects, quizzes, etc. as tools to help him master the material overall, and give him quarterly, semester, and final exams to count for grades.

[regentrude]

As for the B percentage, do you mean that you don't end the course until he can make a B or better on the final? If that's the case, in my situation, I would be concerned that this is not prepping my daughter for the kind of grading and expectations she will encounter in outside classes (either in high school, dual enrollment, college, etc). I expected that she would have a learning curve when presented with deadlines, tests and no "do-overs" so that there was pressure to be adequately prepared the first time around. Honestly, I want her to experience any failures while on my watch, and preferably before reaching high school. That's why we've started with syllabi, homework, deadlines, tests, etc. I consider it part of learning study skills.

 

Playing Devil's advocate here:

what would you do with a student who gets a C in math?

In school or college, that C would be recorded, and the student would move on to the next math course the next semester, with all the holes and missed concepts, and would probably forever lack the in-depth understanding and any chance to master subsequent math.

Would it not be so much more beneficial to give the student enough time to actually master the concept and send him back to the material until he has done so?

I completely agree that this does not mimic what is happening in school, but I would consider subject mastery to be much more important than getting used to a school-like grading setting that does not allow extra time for struggling students, but keeps moving them through poorly understood material. I consider this one of the benefits of homeschooling, that we do not have to stop the course by a deadline, but that we can work until mastery has been achieved.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Oh. (still thinking about this) When I had my son re-do chapters and lessons, I didn't change his original grade but I did change the deadline for the next lesson so he'd have time to master the material. True, that is not very school-y.

 

But wouldn't a bright student occasionally get an extension or an opportunity to earn extra credit in public school? Isn't that similar?

[regentrude]

But wouldn't a bright student occasionally get an extension or an opportunity to earn extra credit in public school? Isn't that similar?

 

In public school, there would be credit for turning in homework, for doing in class fill-in-the-blank worksheets, for participation - and only a very small portion would stem from a rigorous testing of comprehensive, cumulative actual knowledge.

Do-overs for tests, extended deadlines, extra credit - yes. That's the expectation my college students bring to university

[KarenNC]

Do-overs for tests, extended deadlines, extra credit - yes. That's the expectation my college students bring to university

 

And how does that work for them (and you, as the professor--I think I'm right that you are a university professor) ? Everything I've been seeing in material I've read from college professors is that this is a prime problem with students entering the college system. I consider a dose of reality in this area to be part of my responsibility in preparing her to function adequately in a university setting.

Edited June 2, 2012 by KarenNC

[KarenNC]

But wouldn't a bright student occasionally get an extension or an opportunity to earn extra credit in public school? Isn't that similar?

 

I have given my daughter an occasional extra credit problem on tests, but those are going to be questions that require greater synthesis of information or a skill that I'm just teaching her. It's not an every time thing, though.

[KarenNC]

Playing Devil's advocate here:

what would you do with a student who gets a C in math?

In school or college, that C would be recorded, and the student would move on to the next math course the next semester, with all the holes and missed concepts, and would probably forever lack the in-depth understanding and any chance to master subsequent math.

Would it not be so much more beneficial to give the student enough time to actually master the concept and send him back to the material until he has done so?

I completely agree that this does not mimic what is happening in school, but I would consider subject mastery to be much more important than getting used to a school-like grading setting that does not allow extra time for struggling students, but keeps moving them through poorly understood material. I consider this one of the benefits of homeschooling, that we do not have to stop the course by a deadline, but that we can work until mastery has been achieved.

 

I'm not sure why it would follow from not wanting to use a single test to determine a grade or from giving grades and having deadlines that a struggling student would get basically social promotion. I don't see mastery and deadlines/no do-overs to be mutually exclusive, but I'll play along with the devil's advocate.:)

 

If she had only one math test for the year and got a C on it? Yes, I would be hard-nosed and make her keep the C. That is the reality of putting all one's eggs in one basket. Sometimes the basket may fall and the eggs may break, so it behooves one to either have multiple baskets or be extremely careful with that one basket;). I would move her on and do extra work in the specific problematic material. If the C came from poor habits (lack of attention to detail, sloppy copying of the problem, sloppy computation), the extra work would hopefully be a strong incentive to be more careful. If it is conceptual, she will require the extra work to have an adequate understanding. I would consider it the same as giving extra tutoring to a student in public school. A D or F would require a full repeat of that entire course and the grades in the two attempts would be averaged.

 

For us, this is precisely the benefit of frequent testing (whether one records the grade or not). I don't expect her to move through poorly understood material. By doing fairly frequent tests, I see areas that need more attention (and this includes things like understanding a concept but being sloppy in execution or poor attention to detail leading to a missed problem). I'd rather address these early on than wait until the end of a course. Her grade is her grade, but I require that she work through material she missed to find the errors. If they are conceptual errors, there will be extra math work in that particular concept (basically focused tutoring in addition to regular work). With our current level of Saxon we test every 5 lessons, but the tests come on the previous 5 lessons worth of material (plus previous material), if that makes sense. So, the test that comes after lesson 130 is on material up through lesson 125. This means we can fairly quickly pick up any issues and go back over the problematic material.

 

In our case, we actually had this issue (struggling in math with poorly understood material). When we switched from Singapore to Saxon, she was at the upper edge of the placement test for 6/5 and 7/6. Looking at the two books, I decided to try her in 7/6. Her initial test scores were looking good, but quickly hit a downward slope (within the first 8 lessons). It was obvious I had overestimated her readiness for 7/6, so we dropped back and tested through 6/5 to get any holes plugged, did extra work on math fact speed, then started 7/6 again. I used the freedom of homeschooling to put her in the correct level of curriculum for her ability level. I think the public school equivalent would be to change the course level of someone who was really bombing early on. We also school year-round, so that there is a bit more flexibility in how long we take to get through a book.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Karen, I'm getting a little confused by your posts.

 

In the first place, I didn't realize you were talking about an 11yo. I thought you'd addressed high school grading; my mistake. (Doubly my mistake, because I wandered in from new posts and didn't realize I was on the K-8 board.)

 

Secondly, you said you give your daughter no do-overs or extensions because you want her to face the realities present in university life, but then you say you allow her to spread her studies year 'round to take the time needed for mastery. How is that not an extension? How is that adhering to school-like deadlines? It sounds more like the system regentrude and I are advocating.

 

Thirdly, no one said they weren't evaluating and assessing their students constantly throughout the year. Testing isn't the only way to do that. I know how my son is doing on a daily basis. I just don't want to play the game of computing the grades of endless assignments, quizzes, and tests.

 

Are we all talking past each other a bit in this thread? Or is it just me? :tongue_smilie:

[KarenNC]

Karen, I'm getting a little confused by your posts.

 

In the first place, I didn't realize you were talking about an 11yo. I thought you'd addressed high school grading; my mistake. (Doubly my mistake, because I wandered in from new posts and didn't realize I was on the K-8 board.)

 

Secondly, you said you give your daughter no do-overs or extensions because you want her to face the realities present in university life, but then you say you allow her to spread her studies year 'round to take the time needed for mastery. How is that not an extension? How is that adhering to school-like deadlines? It sounds more like the system regentrude and I are advocating.

 

I don't know if we are totally talking past each other, so let me try to clarify. :001_smile: Yes, my personal experience at this point is with an 11 yo, but I was talking about what I plan to do when she's in high school. I started now to implement the strategies I expect to use in high school, in order for both of us to get used to them. Hence, the no do-overs and no extensions beyond initial deadlines. The purpose of those strategies is to prepare her for the realities of functioning in a classroom that is not going to cater to her individually. That may be the writing class she takes next year as a 7th grader from an outside instructor, one she takes if she enrolls in a public high school, dual enrollment at the community college or as a full-time university student. I want her to learn the time management and study skills now, when the stakes are low and I can help her through the inevitable learning curve. The impetus for starting now was a talk I attended last year by a university professor about the primary issues causing problems for incoming freshmen.

 

I don't "allow her to spread her studies year-round to take the time for mastery" and I apologize if I stated that poorly. To me, that would imply that I lengthen the course if she is doing poorly, and that's not the case. Regentrude, in her "devil's advocate" post, mentioned the freedom of homeschooling. We take advantage of the freedom of homeschooling to have our school year be year round with periodic breaks, usually more than 180 days, because it is a convenient schedule for us. Yes, that means that we do have a bit more flexibility if we have to switch levels totally for some reason or an unexpected schedule conflict comes up, but there are still specific schedule expectations based on our school year. IMO, the length of time of the overall course in less an issue than giving the do-overs for poor performance or extending deadlines for lack of preparation. A course might be a semester, an academic year, a calendar year or just a few weeks, depending on the institution. The primary lessons I want her to learn are that there are set expectations and that she should not expect exceptions to them unless in dire emergency (ie severe extended illness, death in the family, etc). I want her to learn that she needs to put forth her best effort the first time, not on the do-over, and that she needs to prioritize her time to balance all the aspects of her life, not expect an extension because she was "busy," "didn't study," etc. Maybe some kids know this intuitively and extensions/do-overs/etc don't negatively impact them-- that's not the case with my daughter. I want her to learn that if she is struggling, she needs to be proactive about seeking additional help *before* the test or deadline.

 

Thirdly, no one said they weren't evaluating and assessing their students constantly throughout the year. Testing isn't the only way to do that. I know how my son is doing on a daily basis. I just don't want to play the game of computing the grades of endless assignments, quizzes, and tests.

 

I understand that, as I said in an earlier post. Basing something on one grade is a perfectly legitimate avenue, with its own pros and cons as with any avenue, just not one I choose to follow right now. We may eventually get to the point of having a single cumulative test in some subjects, but at this point on the learning curve, I don't think that would be productive for us. She needs the opportunity at this stage to have frequent course corrections, which is how I view averaging multiple tests. I think you are looking at my response to regentrude's "devil's advocate" post where, as I read it, she gave an either/or scenario---either extend the course endlessly until you get the desired performance or follow social promotion and ignore the educational gaps completely. I think it's a false dichotomy and I was addressing that aspect of it.

 

Does this make more sense?

Edited June 2, 2012 by KarenNC

[lewelma]

Regarding do-overs, I know we are discussing fairness in American grading, but I thought that some people might be interested to know that the highly-respected Cambridge International Exams allow for retakes. These are high school exams. If you get a poor grade, you are given additional time to study and allowed to take the exam again.

 

From the website: "Cambridge offers a separate retake entry deadline in the November series, in order to give students who have sat examinations in the June series additional time to consider their June results before deciding whether to enter the subject again in the November series."

 

The goal is mastery, not a grade. Why not allow your student more time? Personally, I would HATE to have to sit a final exam AGAIN because I did poorly the first time. Who wants to do all the studying again? That is the motivation for doing well the first time. Perhaps the compromise is no do-overs for tests and quizzes, but the Final exam allows for do-overs. Regentrude appears to me to be allowing retakes by calling the first exam a "pretest" but if the student does well on the pretest, it can count as the actual grade. Subtle difference in language can make all the difference to how the student views the grading practices.

 

In addition, with a class of 1 (your homeschooling student), you have no way to assess the fairness of the exam. Are you expecting too much or too little? In addition, different philosophies consider percentage grades to be equivalent to different letter grades. Saxon expects material to be mastered to basically 100%. Perhaps an appropriate "A" would be 95% or higher. But AoPS expects that students will not know how to do every problem, so an exam scoring 80% or higher could fairly be considered an "A." How do you know what is fair for your student?

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited June 3, 2012 by lewelma

[KarenNC]

Regarding do-overs.

 

I know we are discussing fairness in American grading, but I thought that some people might be interested to know that the highly-respected Cambridge International Exams allow for retakes. These are high school exams. If you get a poor grade, you are given additional time to study and allowed to take the exam again.

 

From the website: "Cambridge offers a separate retake entry deadline in the November series, in order to give students who have sat examinations in the June series additional time to consider their June results before deciding whether to enter the subject again in the November series."

 

The goal is mastery, not a grade. Why not allow your student more time? Personally, I would HATE to have to sit a final exam AGAIN because I did poorly the first time. Who wants to do all the studying again? That is the motivation for doing well the first time. Perhaps the compromise is no do-overs for tests and quizzes, but the Final exam allows for do-overs. Regentrude appears to me to be allowing retakes by calling the first exam a "pretest" but if the student does well on the pretest, it can count as the actual grade. Subtle difference in language can make all the difference to how the student views the grading practices.

 

In addition, with a class of 1 (your homeschooling student), you have no way to assess the fairness of the exam. Are you expecting too much or too little? In addition, different philosophies consider percentage grades to be equivalent to different letter grades. Saxon expects material to be mastered to basically 100%. Perhaps an appropriate "A" would be 95% or higher. But AoPS expects that students will not know how to do every problem, so an exam scoring 80% or higher could fairly be considered an "A." How do you know what is fair for your student?

 

Ruth in NZ

 

The SATs also allow you to take them more than once (at least the general ones do, I don't know about the subject tests). It's a strategy, but not one I personally want to follow in general at home because, for my daughter and at this point, it doesn't produce her best effort on the first attempt. By the time she gets to high school and is taking these kinds of exams, I hope she will have sufficient training that it would work. We'll have to see.

 

To me, a pretest is a test you give the student before any instruction takes place. The goal is to judge their existing level of knowledge in that subject, so that the teacher knows where to start. A student who aces such a pretest is probably in the wrong class. What you and regentrude are describing as a pretest I would call a practice test. They certainly have their place and teachers might choose to let a student skip a final if they aced an equivalent practice test. If the student knows in advance that they can skip the final if they get a specific grade on a practice test, I wouldn't call it a "do-over," I'd call it "incentive";). What I mean by "do-over" is the decision to let a student take a test again only after and because of a poor grade.

 

As to fairness, I would say that a "fair" test depends on whether the test covers the material that the student knew was expected to be learned, not whether the student got a particular grade on it. The better question, I suppose, would be whether the course was presented at a "fair" (or appropriate) level for the student. The percentage/letter grade equivalent can indeed vary from institution to institution, even grade to grade (or teacher to teacher, especially when you get to the higher levels). That's where the course description and course expectations (as outlined in a syllabus) come in, so that the student knows the teacher's expectation. You're the one who decides what scale is appropriate given the curriculum and your expectations. I would think that a course description for a transcript should reflect the grading scale used as well as any "out of the norm" expectations, just as it would differentiate between a standard class, an honors class and an AP class in the same subject. Many schools give honors or AP classes greater weighting in figuring a GPA/class rank for this reason.

[coffeefreak]

This will be my first year to write detailed course descriptions, and syllabi (syllibuses?):lol:, but I've always taken grades and done lesson plans. We've used HST from the beginning and I just can't praise it enough for this sort of thing. When it comes time for transcripts, I will simply have to click a button. My kids have always had report cards because I felt it was important. And, like a pp, I really wanted them to understand how the real world works. In College, it's all about the grades. As a matter of fact, it's still about the GPA for some jobs. DH has been out of school for 15 years and there was a job that turned him down 2 years ago because of his College GPA. We. Were. Stunned.:001_huh: After that, we really started pushing deadlines and grades in our house.

 

(OP, is this discussion helping you?)

 

I'm printing this thread. Thanks again to lewelma and regentrude for the input and experience!

 

I think my goal will be to use quarterly, semester, and final exams, and never mind the penny-ante fussing over numerical values for anything else.

 

I'm quite excited about this, and will spend part of the summer break getting the new system together.

 

:)

 

I'm headed toward this too. DD was in VP Scholars academy this year, and it really helped us to see how deadlines could work, and assessments could be done. She aced her final exams (there were 3 parts to them), proving they are not a waste of time. She had some writing assignments and memorization projects too, but never final exams before.

 

We're going to follow Ambleside Online next year and they have an EXCELLENT discussion on High School requirements and grading in generalhere. It's a lot of info, but I highly recommend it.

 

Playing Devil's advocate here:

what would you do with a student who gets a C in math?

In school or college, that C would be recorded, and the student would move on to the next math course the next semester, with all the holes and missed concepts, and would probably forever lack the in-depth understanding and any chance to master subsequent math.

Would it not be so much more beneficial to give the student enough time to actually master the concept and send him back to the material until he has done so?

I completely agree that this does not mimic what is happening in school, but I would consider subject mastery to be much more important than getting used to a school-like grading setting that does not allow extra time for struggling students, but keeps moving them through poorly understood material. I consider this one of the benefits of homeschooling, that we do not have to stop the course by a deadline, but that we can work until mastery has been achieved.

 

I thought so, until my oldest tried and tried, but simply could not make better than a C on some topics. There are some things that you will not ever be proficient at. A is supposed to mean EXCELLENT, C is average. Therefore, I had to dig deep a couple of years ago and realize, just because she was homeschooled, she was not going to be an A student. I actually started a thread about it, and the general discussion was about how arbitrary grades are, and how hard it is to grade. At the time, I asked my dad, who was a college professor back in the 80's how he graded his students (he taught at West Point for several years). He said West Point graded using the Thayer system. In a nutshell, it's the belief that you bring your best to class every day, and therefore, you are tested on the previous material every day, for a test grade. All things are created equally, and there is no, 20% participation, 10% daily work, 60% final exam. It's all equal, every single assignment. That revolutionized my way of grading. I now grade everything that way. I do feel it's fairest. Every child has strengths and weaknesses, and every child has good days and bad days. My daughter does MUS for math and she will make an A on the new topics, but Cs on the tests. It's because the tests are review, and she has a hard time processing multiple topics on one paper. Therefore, I started grading every paper as a test. She doesn't deserve an A because she needs to work on shifting gears and switching from one topic to another. She doesn't deserve a C or a D because she DOES know the material presented, but does better if it's the only topic on the page. Therefore, it all equals out. She has mastered the topic to the best of her ability and her grade averages out to a B. The same goes for Language Arts. She has strengths and weaknesses, and when they're all graded equally, it all averages out and gives a fair assessment of her overall ability. When you grade this way you truly separate the A students from the C students. For a student to get an A, they HAVE to be "Excellent." They have to have an overall talent in everything, not just in test taking skills. If they are great at tests but stink at every day work or class discussion, than they get a B or a C. I know this seems a little off topic, but since the discussion had turned to grades, I thought I'd put my two cents in :D

 

Great discussion!

Thanks OP!

Dorinda