kitten18 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Nope. But if ds didn't have to stop and move every 15-20 min., freak out about something, or take a snack break, then yes, it would probably fit in that time frame. :D I was thinking about this thread this morning as our spelling lesson (15 words) took 1.5 hours. There was a lot of crying and flopping out of the chair, but I was determined to persevere no matter how long it took. Normally, this would take 10-15 minutes, it was just one of those days.:banghead::banghead::banghead: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I was thinking about this thread this morning as our spelling lesson (15 words) took 1.5 hours. There was a lot of crying and flopping out of the chair, but I was determined to persevere no matter how long it took. Normally, this would take 10-15 minutes, it was just one of those days.:banghead::banghead::banghead: When things start going insanely long like that, it's time to set it aside and come back to it later. I think another poster mentioned 3 hours spent on math with a young elementary student? Again, stop at 30 minutes, put it away, come back to it with fresh minds. There comes a point where it doesn't matter how long you keep going - you're not going to get anywhere.:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2squared Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 We are not using a formal writing program, but if we were, it seems like it would only take about 15mins, since writing currics tend to have short assignments (or, it would get drawn over several days in short chunks). They write summaries for their encyclopedia readings, they write 1 page reports on their science or history (we alternate sci/history) - but these are double spaced handwritten, and the 11yo can get these done in 10 mins. If I give her more to write, though, it's painful for everyone. So, I know I need to take her into the next stage (beyond just summary writing), but not sure how to do that for this particular (resistant, beastly-to-teach, short on words) child :lol: Does your writing time include editing and instruction, not just having her get words on paper? Even just doing WWE, my dd has to read the day's passage, collect her thoughts, and write them down. If she does that independently, then we sit together to edit her work. The editing process always provides opportunity for further writing instruction, grammar, and/or spelling. ;) Often I work with my dd as she forms sentences, and that takes quite a while as well. Next year my dd will be writing some short reports in addition to narrations, and I expect the research part of those assignments will take additional time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classically Minded Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 These are estimates from the WTM website article on schedules here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/schedules/ Average School Times according to Rec's in WTM: Kindergarten 1 hour 20 minutes First grade 3 hours 49 minutes Second grade 4 hours Third grade 4 hours 52 minutes Fourth grade 5 hours 34 minutes Fifth grade 6 hours 41 minutes Sixth grade 6 hours 51 minutes Seventh grade 6 hours 51 minutes Eighth grade 6 hours 58 minutes Ninth grade 7 hours 33 minutes Tenth grade 7 hours 33 minutes Eleventh grade 6 hours 21 minutes Twelfth grade 6 hours 21 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 These are estimates from the WTM website article on schedules here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/schedules/ Average School Times according to Rec's in WTM: Kindergarten 1 hour 20 minutes First grade 3 hours 49 minutes Second grade 4 hours Third grade 4 hours 52 minutes Fourth grade 5 hours 34 minutes Fifth grade 6 hours 41 minutes Sixth grade 6 hours 51 minutes Seventh grade 6 hours 51 minutes Eighth grade 6 hours 58 minutes Ninth grade 7 hours 33 minutes Tenth grade 7 hours 33 minutes Eleventh grade 6 hours 21 minutes Twelfth grade 6 hours 21 minutes Looks like I'm right on track.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 When things start going insanely long like that, it's time to set it aside and come back to it later. I think another poster mentioned 3 hours spent on math with a young elementary student? Again, stop at 30 minutes, put it away, come back to it with fresh minds. There comes a point where it doesn't matter how long you keep going - you're not going to get anywhere.:tongue_smilie: That was me. Ds7 was/is quite capable of doing the work. He is also quite capable of staring at a problem for 15 minutes. We were not working on the math at that point. We were working on focus. I'm not about to tell my perfectly capable child that he doesn't have to do the work if he sits staring at the problem long enough. He still daydreams occasionally, but he has made great strides in his focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 When things start going insanely long like that, it's time to set it aside and come back to it later. I think another poster mentioned 3 hours spent on math with a young elementary student? Again, stop at 30 minutes, put it away, come back to it with fresh minds. There comes a point where it doesn't matter how long you keep going - you're not going to get anywhere.:tongue_smilie: Oh, I agree. I had to stick it out today, not because the specific spelling lesson was important, BUT to show dd that we weren't going to stop just because she was being stubborn. This is not my normal way of doing things. It just had to be done today.:tongue_smilie: She got over it and completed the rest of her work in a (relatively) timely manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 That was me. Ds7 was/is quite capable of doing the work. He is also quite capable of staring at a problem for 15 minutes. We were not working on the math at that point. We were working on focus. I'm not about to tell my perfectly capable child that he doesn't have to do the work if he sits staring at the problem long enough. He still daydreams occasionally, but he has made great strides in his focus. Oh, I agree. I had to stick it out today, not because the specific spelling lesson was important, BUT to show dd that we weren't going to stop just because she was being stubborn.This is not my normal way of doing things. It just had to be done today.:tongue_smilie: She got over it and completed the rest of her work in a (relatively) timely manner. I've done this too, but I found that it really didn't help in the long run. It just made us both exhausted. Whereas, if I stop and come back later, he's not getting out of doing the work - he will still do it THAT DAY. We're just switching to other work (not going off and playing!), then coming back to what we're stuck on. This has worked much better when we've hit this situation, and really, since I started doing that, I've only had to do it a couple times, and then the problem stopped. He knew we would do it regardless, and his attitude was changed more easily by switching and coming back. Of course he was perfectly capable of doing whatever I was asking of him. It was that his little 7 year old brain was stuck in a mode of thinking he wasn't capable of doing it or didn't want to do it, and changing subjects was able to reset his brain and get him working again. When we come back to the sticky subject, it goes quickly and easily. I think changing subjects actually HELPS teach him how to change his attitude about what we're doing. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrightmom Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 These are estimates from the WTM website article on schedules here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/schedules/ Average School Times according to Rec's in WTM: Kindergarten 1 hour 20 minutes First grade 3 hours 49 minutes Second grade 4 hours Third grade 4 hours 52 minutes Fourth grade 5 hours 34 minutes Fifth grade 6 hours 41 minutes Sixth grade 6 hours 51 minutes Seventh grade 6 hours 51 minutes Eighth grade 6 hours 58 minutes Ninth grade 7 hours 33 minutes Tenth grade 7 hours 33 minutes Eleventh grade 6 hours 21 minutes Twelfth grade 6 hours 21 minutes Thanks for the link to the article. It is a good read and quite timely for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Last year was the exception..Here's what put it over (more like 4.5) 1. Using a packaged curriculum 2. Adding to that our children's special interests (programming and Greek for my son.) 3. Writing- If you have a soup to nuts writing assignment, that is just going to take a good hour for something like a 3 paragraph composition. We had Composition with our Calvert studies about 2-3 times per week and each of those added a full hour to our day! This coming year we are doing things differently: 1. NO busy work with SOTW. We love history and discuss it a lot. So I see no reason to make my kids draw maps and color in pictures and timelines unless they do it in their free time (and they often do!) So history will be all done in the car using SOTW, as desired. That cuts out 2 hours per week. 2. Shorter Writing Lessons- In school, I didn't start serious writing instruction until 9th grade! So although I am not dropping writing, I am following Timberdoodle's suggestion and using Daily 6 Traits. So writing will take approximately 10 minutes per day plus a composition on Friday (and even those are all much shorter.) My kids love to write, and they write very well. I see no reason to make this into a long-winded, formulaic, torturous undertaking! 3. Shorter grammar lessons. My son learned more from Mad Libs than he did from Calvert's Grammar. Therefore, the Queen's Language Lessons Grammar/LA is enough. It is very beautiful and inspirational and ...SHORT. 4. Not doing every subject every day- this is obvious...but I'll be spending more time weekly, writing out weekly lesson plans rather than having checklists printed ahead of time which are all the same. 5. Science- My kids learn so much Science from everyday life that I just don't see the reason to complicate things. Using Abeka Science is so easy and it gets the job done, in less than 1.5 hours per WEEK. Why overcomplicate? I might use Apologia Zoology 1 with my 8yo dd, but that would be for the special time together, and it would take a long time...so I'm debating. I think with school, it's all the little things that add up... 1. Too many separate subjects in one day 2. Programs that take too much time, (long winded) 3. Pushing kids too far beyond what is age appropriate (formal writing in elementary) 4. Adding in so many unnecessary "extras" (hands on, lapbooks, coloring pages.) 5. Not considering child's learning style at all (causes too much inattention and dawdling.) 6. Or...undisciplined children (that don't listen, get up too much, etc. etc. but see number 5 which is often the real cause before taking the discipline approach.) 7. Doing too much or not enough together. Too much together, means time isn't being used effectively when independent learning could have been easily possible. Not combining subjects at all means ineffective use of Mom's time. So...put all those things together, and you have a very long homeschool day. Edited to Add, my kids will be in 3rd and 5th this coming year and our school day will be about 3 hours, including foreign language, computer skills, and all the main subjects as well as critical thinking. I don't expect it to get much longer until 7th when we add back in formal Writing/Composition. Edited May 22, 2012 by Calming Tea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth in MN Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Nope. But if ds didn't have to stop and move every 15-20 min., freak out about something, or take a snack break, then yes, it would probably fit in that time frame. :D This would be us, too. I can tell that I forgot to remind dd to take her ADD meds due to the amunt of staring into space and random giggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Wow! I just cannot see that ever happening. These are estimates from the WTM website article on schedules here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/schedules/ Average School Times according to Rec's in WTM: Kindergarten 1 hour 20 minutes First grade 3 hours 49 minutes Second grade 4 hours Third grade 4 hours 52 minutes Fourth grade 5 hours 34 minutes Fifth grade 6 hours 41 minutes Sixth grade 6 hours 51 minutes Seventh grade 6 hours 51 minutes Eighth grade 6 hours 58 minutes Ninth grade 7 hours 33 minutes Tenth grade 7 hours 33 minutes Eleventh grade 6 hours 21 minutes Twelfth grade 6 hours 21 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljswriter Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 School happens during a 3 hour stretch, but there is a "recess" break and a couple stretching/therapy-type activities. So it's more like 2.5 hrs for my 2nd grader. I'd probably try to do more, but she doesn't have the attention span to retain more, even with breaks. You can see her eyes glaze over, and you know nothing is getting into that brain. We're going to the workbox approach in about a week to test it out over the summer, and I'm hoping the increased variation in activities and "fun" stuff will help me sneak in some extra learning. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classically Minded Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Wow! I just cannot see that ever happening. Just a note, those estimates include reading times as well, for 2nd grade that shaves off a whole hour bringing 4 hours down to 3 and same with the other grades. They are average estimates, so children that work faster, obviously will finish sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iona Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) These are estimates from the WTM website article on schedules here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/schedules/ Average School Times according to Rec's in WTM: Kindergarten 1 hour 20 minutes First grade 3 hours 49 minutes Second grade 4 hours Third grade 4 hours 52 minutes Fourth grade 5 hours 34 minutes Fifth grade 6 hours 41 minutes Sixth grade 6 hours 51 minutes Seventh grade 6 hours 51 minutes Eighth grade 6 hours 58 minutes Ninth grade 7 hours 33 minutes Tenth grade 7 hours 33 minutes Eleventh grade 6 hours 21 minutes Twelfth grade 6 hours 21 minutes The estimates were sent in by a hser concerned about the amount of school hours wtm seemed to prescribe. The following quotes are from the linked article where they(SWB and JW) address the concern. "We received recently an e-mail in which someone had totalled the times recommended in the book for study in each grade. The list looked something like this" They go on to say "Yes, you will spend this amount of time if you do EVERYTHING we suggest in the book But no family is going to do that!" "These totals assume that children will work at basically the same rate in every subject: half an hour for grammar, forty-five minutes for math, twenty minutes for spelling....But in real life, children find some subjects a breeze and others a hard slog. " this is their view on the schedules "We said in the book (but apparently not emphatically enough!) that very few parents will follow the schedule in the book. Frankly, we put the schedules in under protest, at the publisher’s insistence. They are only useful as a springboard for your own schedule — one that fits your family and your child’s learning style." Edited May 22, 2012 by iona forgot something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAM Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 We do an average of 3-3 1/2 hours most days (kids are 11, 9, 7, and 3). No way could I do a 6-7 hour school day right now, even with my oldest. We usually do 45 min of math, 20 minutes of Latin or Grammar, and the rest of the time is spent on our Sonlight Core (history, science, lit). Fridays are for art, Spanish and writing a weekly paper. We keep things simple, not a lot of extra projects and no busywork at all. We have a sort of mini-farm and need time to take care of the animals and garden, plus the kids have outside activities, and I like to exercise most days and spend some time writing. So far we're doing well with the shorter hours and I hope we will be able to continue them into next year. I've just had to remind myself I can't do everything under the sun and neither can my kids. We pick and choose and get in a good 3 hours, then move on to other things! I still feel like they are getting a great education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2squared Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 We do an average of 3-3 1/2 hours most days (kids are 11, 9, 7, and 3). No way could I do a 6-7 hour school day right now, even with my oldest. We usually do 45 min of math, 20 minutes of Latin or Grammar, and the rest of the time is spent on our Sonlight Core (history, science, lit). Fridays are for art, Spanish and writing a weekly paper. We keep things simple, not a lot of extra projects and no busywork at all. We have a sort of mini-farm and need time to take care of the animals and garden, plus the kids have outside activities, and I like to exercise most days and spend some time writing. So far we're doing well with the shorter hours and I hope we will be able to continue them into next year. I've just had to remind myself I can't do everything under the sun and neither can my kids. We pick and choose and get in a good 3 hours, then move on to other things! I still feel like they are getting a great education. :iagree: This is exactly my approach. I value my kids having a large chunk of free time every day. If they spent 6+ hours on schoolwork, their free time would disappear. We all would be disappointed. Besides, with my crew, I can't imagine how we would administrate the WTM hours of schoolwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 We average about 3 hours a day. DS10 went a bit longer this past year, but that was because he was doing a couple of hard subjects at his choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily_Grace Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 In elementary grades, sure, but by middle school the workload is too great. I don't believe you can get a full education without discussion and applying concepts to just a worksheet. Kids need more. We start school at 8am and finish between 2 and 4pm most days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I spend about 2 hours with my K student, including reading practice. My 2nd grader works for 3 hours not including reading/read-alouds. Dd7's work load will probably increase by 30 min for 3rd grade. Dd5's will probably stay at 2 hours for first grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 These are estimates from the WTM website article on schedules here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/schedules/ Average School Times according to Rec's in WTM: Kindergarten 1 hour 20 minutes First grade 3 hours 49 minutes Second grade 4 hours Third grade 4 hours 52 minutes Fourth grade 5 hours 34 minutes Fifth grade 6 hours 41 minutes Sixth grade 6 hours 51 minutes Seventh grade 6 hours 51 minutes Eighth grade 6 hours 58 minutes Ninth grade 7 hours 33 minutes Tenth grade 7 hours 33 minutes Eleventh grade 6 hours 21 minutes Twelfth grade 6 hours 21 minutes I wish :001_huh: We spend 3 hours a day minimum for K -and that's just reading, math, handwriting and ETC :glare: If DD works fast we can sqeeze in another subject in that time but not often. I am mandated to teach 8 subjects - so can't get away with just the basics. So after that 3 hours of basics I have to toss in extra subjects in the afternoon. Most days we school 4-5 hours for just K. However we will school about the same hours for 1st -3rd grade -there aren't any more subjects to add in - we're already doing them all :glare: So our hours won't increase for a few years at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Depend on the kiddos age. My 2nd grader probably. My 5 th grader is more like 4-4.5. Depend on how fast a worker too. If she doesn't have a writing assignment my 7th grader could power through in 3-3.5 but she is focused, self-starting and doesn't need much practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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