LimitBreak Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 I've been attempting to afterschool some of the books in the TWTM Reading List to my 2nd grader this past year (starts on p. 74, newest edition). I've been reading most of them to him because the language in the recommended texts are a little advanced for him. I didn't have an issue with any of the Ancients (First Grade) until I came across: English, Irish, and Welsh fairy tales. I had borrowed 3 books from the library. I eyeballed the books and concluded that one was too challenging. I set that one aside. The other 2 seemed just fine. Until I started to read it to myself! I found that most of the tales were, imo, demeaning to women. The women in the stories were either witches, manipulative, old and mean, seductress, been beaten by men, etc. I decided to skip English, Irish, and Welsh fairy tales! So then I started Medieval/Early Renaissance (Second Grade). I started with Beowulf (Michelle Szobody). That was fine. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (Michael Morpurgo) - this consisted of a witch and a seductress but the rest of the author's storytelling was very good so I decided to go ahead with this one. I'm now moving on to Canterbury Tales. Here are some of the sentences that bother me: "The advice of women is often fatal." "Now I'll tell you about my fifth husband, God save his soul. He was so mean to me that I still feel the pain in my ribs, and will till my dying day. But he was also so loving that although he beat me in every bone, he could soon win my love again." Should I still go ahead and read these to him? Of course I will explain to him that women should be respected and that they are not all manipulative fatal witches. Or do you think that these images of women will be imbedded in his subconscious forever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LillyMama Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Is there a chance you could involve his dad in the readings? Sometimes I think messages about how women should be treated are best received when coming from other men. The only other thing I think is putting them in context. You know, less with statements like "You know better than to behave this way, right?" and more with "Isn't it a shame that, back then, this behavior was accepted?" I think that can lead into more healthy discussions of history and the evolution of the rights of women and less into the pure morality of it. Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimitBreak Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 LillyMama, I like your idea! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I tried to read Canterbury Tales to my 2nd grader, I found a lovely illustrated edition, but I actually read only about 10 percent... it never occurred to me that the stories demeaned women-- but they were, well, too dirty for us... Sorry! Just our opinion. They'll read it later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd293 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 My perspective is that we don't get to pick-and-choose from the classics. I can't see how we can follow a classical education and not read some things that are objectionable. I don't think this is only going to be an issue when the children are young. Ideas are central to classical education - recognising them, seeing how they have impacted on society, and deciding what we agree with, or don't (and why, or why not). That said, I guess it's about choosing age-appropriate versions, and contextualising. We are not religious, but we read the Bible and other creation stories to ds5 along with books on evolution. There are things I see as quaint and harmless, things I find to be thought-provoking images and things I find objectionable. We talk about the big issues as they arise, but otherwise I trust our values will be strong enough to be the over-riding influence. He does get a bit mixed up, sometimes, but that's simple a window to more discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 We had a really bad Canterbury Tales experience, so I would vote no. Here's the blog recap on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Those images of women are entirely accurate to the perceptions of those times and cultures. The fact is that those cultures at those times were very hard on women. There are cultures in OUR time that are very hard on women as well, quite frankly. Read those stories as teaching tools to discuss that time, that culture, and those people. Compare what the stories teach to what the Bible teaches. Your child will both learn about history and people, as well as what God's standard actually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimitBreak Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 We had a really bad Canterbury Tales experience, so I would vote no. Here's the blog recap on that. LOL! I just clicked on your blog and the image that popped up is so familiar. It's that same Canterbury Tales book that I borrowed from the kid's section of the library :lol: It is going to be returned, Asap :auto: I will check out your recommendation for Mary Pope Osborne's book. Thanx :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nellecv Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I agree that kids need to read these books, but not that they have to read them right now. For classics you find inappropriate for a young child, I'd leave them until your next time through the history rotation. Canterbury Tales goes along with studying the Crusades, but you'll be covering the era three times, once in each stage. By the second rotation kids should be able to put it in context with your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Read Scandinavian tales instead. Very strong women! East of the Sun and West of the Moon is the most famous story. You'll find it all over the place. Also Jane Yolen has two collections, one about men/boys, one about girls/women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I agree that kids need to read these books, but not that they have to read them right now. For classics you find inappropriate for a young child, I'd leave them until your next time through the history rotation. Canterbury Tales goes along with studying the Crusades, but you'll be covering the era three times, once in each stage. By the second rotation kids should be able to put it in context with your help. I couldn't agree more. There are plenty of good reads for young children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raceNzanesmom Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I guess that's why I don't follow that schedule with younger kids. I wouldn't read any of those titles to my ds- just finished 2nd grade. There is sooooo much wonderful literature available for this age. I'd enjoy it together and worry about the deeper stuff when ds is older. .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 This was one reason why I went with SL Core 1/2, which doesn't focus on the classics so much the first time through World history, instead of doing a strict SOTW-because some of the books, even in kid's versions, weren't ones that I wanted my DD reading at age 5-6. There are so many good children's books out there, I don't have too much trouble saving the heavier classics for middle or high school. There are some wonderful classics, mythology collections, folklore, and so on appropriate for this age, but I don't feel that a child is not going to get a good grounding in the classics by waiting on the Canterbury tales until they're in the Logic or Rhetoric stages vs the Grammar! My DD has developed a love for the Wishbone Classics series, which follow the same format as the TV show, and has read as many of them as she can get her hands on. They seem a pretty age-appropriate way to introduce the classics and to get the idea across that classic books still have a relationship to today's life (although some of the situations with "contemporary" kids now seem very dated). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I guess that's why I don't follow that schedule with younger kids. I wouldn't read any of those titles to my ds- just finished 2nd grade. There is sooooo much wonderful literature available for this age. I'd enjoy it together and worry about the deeper stuff when ds is older. .02 :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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