VP Self Paced - time? combining with other resources?

[Another Lynn]

If you took advantage of the VP group buy (like I did) thinking the self-paced would be a fun "add-on" for history (like I did) but you weren't planning for it to be your main history work ...

 

1) What else are you planning?

 

2) If you've already started using it, how long does VP self-paced take?

 

3) Do you assign it (or plan to assign it) daily or weekly?

 

4) What do you add (or plan to add) to it for a logic stage student? How much reading, outlining, summarizing, timelining, mapping, etc. are you assigning?

 

TIA!

[sleeplessnights]

This is our second year for the VP self-paced class. We are on week 10 of NTGR. There are four regular days of teaching and the fifth is a quick quiz. My son does it in four days, doing days 4&5 on the same day. It takes about 30 minutes each day, plus or minus. He loves it. Sometimes he wants to work ahead, but I won't let him. Ha, Ha!

 

We also try to match it with SOTW one (or two) days a week. The VP is for fun and interactive learning, SOTW is for narration/writing practice. SOTW also adds in non-western people groups, so I like the combo.

 

My son reads the level one history readers that match up with the VP class. I pre-read them and eliminate ones that he won't like or are inappropriate.

[MomatHWTK]

We try to do the class every day that we are "in school" because I signed up to get two levels completed in about 18 months. I supplement by reading SOTW and Number Stories of Long Ago, watching Netflix documentaries, etc. My son is reading an 'old world history' textbook independently as his "core" history along with the VP class which all three of my schoolers watch.

 

I purchased a Scholastic e-book during the $1 sale that has some resources and Happy Scribe has a set of copywork based on Ancient Egypt so sometimes I supplement with those materials.

[Another Lynn]

This is our second year for the VP self-paced class. We are on week 10 of NTGR. There are four regular days of teaching and the fifth is a quick quiz. My son does it in four days, doing days 4&5 on the same day. It takes about 30 minutes each day, plus or minus. He loves it. Sometimes he wants to work ahead, but I won't let him. Ha, Ha!

 

We also try to match it with SOTW one (or two) days a week. The VP is for fun and interactive learning, SOTW is for narration/writing practice. SOTW also adds in non-western people groups, so I like the combo.

 

My son reads the level one history readers that match up with the VP class. I pre-read them and eliminate ones that he won't like or are inappropriate.

 

Thank you for those details. That is really helpful!

 

We try to do the class every day that we are "in school" because I signed up to get two levels completed in about 18 months. I supplement by reading SOTW and Number Stories of Long Ago, watching Netflix documentaries, etc. My son is reading an 'old world history' textbook independently as his "core" history along with the VP class which all three of my schoolers watch.

 

I purchased a Scholastic e-book during the $1 sale that has some resources and Happy Scribe has a set of copywork based on Ancient Egypt so sometimes I supplement with those materials.

 

Thanks! Are you saying your others watch him do his VP lessons? I've been wondering about letting the others repeat the lessons vs. watch him while he does it - it seems like that would make more sense for us.

[MomatHWTK]

My 8 y.o. is the actual V.P. student. She doesn't read well enough yet to do all the quizzes, etc. so my 11 y.o. facilitates. The 6 y.o. just watches because he's there. ;) But they definitely all benefit from the lessons and I plan for them to watch each one together if possible.

[Another Lynn]

Thanks, Momathome. Sounds like a good plan. Your ages are similar to mine.... in the fall I'll have 10.5yo, 9yo and 7yo who could use/watch/help with the VP course. I got it with the 10.5 yo in mind because I thought it might make history more appealing for him.... but I can see where it might be a better use of time for my 9yo and 7yo.

 

Anyone else? I know there were lots of people who did the group buy. I'm thinking specifically of my 10 yo - will-be 5th grade in the fall. I'm trying to decide how much of WTM-style history I will implement with him. I'm torn between several different goals.... keeping it streamlined vs. stepping up expectations..... giving him independent reading vs. combining him in read alouds with younger siblings.... going deeper with Greece and Rome vs. firming up his knowledge of the overall flow of all of Ancient History....etc. But I digress.... there is the possibility that VP would be a better use of time for a younger silbling instead of for him.

 

Any others combining Self-paced with other assignments/resources?

[Ann.without.an.e]

I can't rave enough about this program. My kids have loved every bit of it this year. It is sufficient to be their entire history. My older dd was watching how much they were labeling on maps and the questions they were answering and she was blown away. Also, they bring what they are learning into real life conversations - a huge sign they are actually learning something. I love when they say, "speaking of that Dad, we learned in history......".

We did actually print of the extra resources reading list and we use those. These are historical fiction pieces that fit in with what they are learning. They have loved them all so far.

[Ann.without.an.e]

We're currently doing 1815 to Present. Both of my boys LOVE it. Although only one is officially registered, they watch the lesson together and take turns with the games.

 

 

 

You know they can actually both do the entire lesson on their own. Have one complete the lesson. Have the other go back in later and click on the lesson again. They can complete the lesson on their own. Only the first child to take it counts for the grade with Veritas. They recommend registering both children if you want separate grades. If you don't care about separate grades, they are actually okay with 2 children using the same one. We called and asked about it, so we aren't trying to get around they system or anything.

My kids started out sharing before I realized they can complete the entire lesson again. But, they love doing it on their own so much more.

 

Just my two cents.

[PeterPan]

My dd has done NTGR, MARR, Explorers to 1850, and is now in modern. Guess you could say she likes 'em, lol. We plan 2 hours for a card, ie. one week. Lessons are about 20 minutes each, though she says some games take longer. She's more irregular about it, typically doing 3/4 or 1 card a day, doing a couple sessions like that a week. It's just how she likes to work.

 

Yes, add books. They'll have prompts, but you should definitely add them (imho). Writing is your call. It's in the curriculum but the online course doesn't assign any. I try not to kill history for her frankly, so I don't typically assign much writing in history. I'll have her write for OTHER things, even oddball things that have no connection to an academic subject. (Muse magazine, co-op class, whatever) In our house, that works out better, at least for right now. You must know though she's been pretty pencil phobic, so connecting what she loves and what she hates wouldn't be good for her. I just keep them separate and plow on.

 

You can really do whatever you want with it. Years ago I had this amazing idea for scrapbooking through the VP cards and never got it done. Too many ideas! The VP stuff is pretty flexible. Make of it what you want. It's a baseline you know will get done, if it's one of those years where you really need some help. It's a starting point you add activities and lit and discussion onto if you have time. It will become whatever you want. For *me* what the VP history does is do a BETTER JOB than anything I could EVER do. I'm so NOT a history person, mercy. These teachers show up enthusiastic every day, tell stories, act out skits, have talking robots. They do games and review and memory work. It's all the things I wish I could get done and don't. But use it as a tool and make of it what you want, kwim?

 

You asked about mapping. They'll do that in the lessons, no need to add that. Timelines they're doing too via the cards and events covered. VP is really strong on memorizing important information to build that internal timeline. If you want to do a physical one, knock yourself out. We haven't yet, and actually it was dd's big request for the coming year, that we go through all the cultures and make a super-humonguous timeline. Still haven't figured that all out exactly, lol. BTW, I didn't ask her about the other levels, but for the 1850 to modern (which actually I don't know if it's 1850 or 1815, told you I don't do history, lol) they include tidbits on what was going on in other cultures at the time. In the written curriculum the VP history is pretty western-oriented, but at least for this last year they're finally bringing in the other cultures.

 

I never assign it. I just give her a slot on her daily checklist where she can work, and how long she works is up to her. Works for us. Let it be fun and not drudgery if the kid enjoys it, kwim? BTW, she's on the older end of the suggested age range. Nuts, I think she's BEYOND the suggested age range (doing their 2 american years in 7th). Oh well, she enjoys it and is getting a lot out of it. Sometimes when they come in a bit older and stronger and more well-read, they bring more to the table with making connections, etc.

[my2boysteacher]

I registered my oldest son, but intend for both boys to work together. Since they are on the older side, I also purchased the coordinating teacher's guide which includes reading, vocab, map work, and outlining.

[iamrachelle]

Where did you find the teachers guide from? I've got my dc scheduled to begin explorers-1815 in a couple of weeks, and while we did purchase the additional literature selections, I haven't figured out how I'm going to assign which-book-when throughout the course.

[dkholland]

My ds (5th this year) absolutely LOVES VP self-paced courses! I have never had to tell him to go do History. He makes sure it gets done each day and he has learned so much more than I could ever lecture on. Yesterday was his last lesson on the Middles Ages, Renaissance, Reformation class. The two monks that led him on his history journey were great and he talks about all he is learning all the time. We do not add to it, but we do the higher level of literature that is suggested. Online at the course website, you can find a list of literature and when it is scheduled according to each card.

 

I cannot recommend this course enough. We are really looking forward to starting Explorers soon!

[PeterPan]

Where did you find the teachers guide from? I've got my dc scheduled to begin explorers-1815 in a couple of weeks, and while we did purchase the additional literature selections, I haven't figured out how I'm going to assign which-book-when throughout the course.

 

Rachelle, you don't *need* the tm when you do the self-paced. If you buy the cards, they have the non-fiction reading scheduled on the back. The fiction reading is in the VP catalog, where every book is marked with a card number and an indication of whether it's + (higher level) or - (lower level). The online lessons will do the same thing, giving you readings that will have an upper and a lower level set.

 

So basically it's easy to coordinate your reading because of the weekly card structure. You always know the topics they're covering, so you can pull books you already have, get books from that section of the library, or use the VP catalog. I have tons of books now, but when I was organizing more carefully I would go through my books for the year and put post-it notes for what card they went with. Now we've done things long enough, I just ask her what she's on and what she wants books on, and that's what we do. We'll go down once a week and raid the shelves to see what we have on the topics. When she was younger we did a more formal basket of books for the week. Now I just pull stuff and let her pick. Sometimes I'll specify books on her weekly checklist if she isn't moving into a genre I want her reading in and needs a nudge. It all works. :)

 

Added: The tm comes as a pdf on the enhanced cd with the memory song (which is in the lessons, don't need to buy separately). Or it's available in print. It's going to give you the written questions and answers (don't need), a basic activity/hands-on for most lessons (which you may or may not want), and some extra writing tasks, which you may or may not have time for. The world will not end if you don't do those pages. We get in our writing other ways. It's easy to get a pile of stuff and just end up feeling guilty, kwim? As long as you're writing enough elsewhere, move on. All the actual HISTORY work you need is getting done in the lessons. But for hands-on, there's a little bit of basic stuff in the tm or you can use stuff you find yourself, your call.

Edited May 4, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[abrightmom]

Lynn,

 

I am glad you started this thread as I have had the same questions. I am torn between streamlined and appropriate. :001_smile: I'd like to hear more about using it with a logic stage child, specifically 6th and 7th grades.

 

Does anybody know if there will be another group buy? I am so disappointed that I wasn't able to join in when it all went down. Now, I want to sign two boys up....

Edited May 5, 2012 by abrightmom

[PeterPan]

Streamlined??? It's not streamlined, mercy. The VP self-paced is SO rich!!! They make so many connections and bring in extra stuff I never would have gotten done teaching it myself. They do extensive timeline work and mapping. They bring in connections with what was going on in other parts of the world. They nail the memory work. They take side trips and tell interesting stories. Doing the VP self-paced is NOT compromising.

 

Didn't they drop the prices for this coming year? You also have the multi-child discount. We use it because we're doing two courses in one year. It came out *pretty close* to the same as the $99 deal. I guess call and ask them.

 

The VP self-paced is NOT compromising. For us it was the total opposite, blowing it out of the water and doing a way better job than I had. :)

[abrightmom]

Elizabeth,

 

By streamlined I mean for ME :D. It streamlines the teaching and planning and all that jazz. By appropriate I am thinking of the 6th and 7th grade level and wondering about the reading and writing that should accompany the history studies. In no way do I think it is inferior or a compromise. I have always wanted VP here....

 

We'd like to do two courses in one year (or so) so yes, I will call and see what they can work out for me and what my options are. Is there a particular person to talk with or is it whoever answers the phone?

Edited May 5, 2012 by abrightmom

[PeterPan]

Whoever answers the phone will be fine. You can do the multi-child discount with one child and two courses. However are you talking for one child or two?? That's NUTS to do two courses in a year with one child age 9. Sorry, I'm not reading your mind here. You said 6th and 7th grade level. You mean you're looking at the two american history courses and trying to figure out if a newly 10 should do them both in one year? If that's what you're thinking, absolutely NOT, lol. That's NUTS.

 

They'll do a free trial in the fall, or at least they have the last few years. That's a good time to try it, see how it work, then sign up when you know it's a good fit. With younger children, I would do one course per 9 months, just like they suggest. I don't know what HOD Bigger covers, sorry. A 9/10 yo could go into NTGR or MARR quite happily. My dd did MARR at 11 and found it *very* enjoyable. This year she's doing the two american courses (age 12). She just turned 13, and now she's saying they're getting young for her and that she's ready to move on. So it's not like it stretches forever, because their thought process moves on to the next level. But it has been a ton of fun for us. She did NTGR in a month during the free trial.

 

You should know that each week/card of material takes about 2 weeks. The reading will be assigned in the lessons and is printed on the back of the (optional) cards. You can use that or pull together your own. The catalog is very helpful. Now we just pull books as we come to the topics. Anyways, 2 weeks a card means to get it done in a month she was doing a LOT on the computer each day. Means 4 hours a week BEFORE any reading or projects in order to finish 2 years of the history in one year. I just don't recommend that for a younger dc unless they *beg* for it, kwim? My dd begged for it. A regular dc, just done one year of the material a year and be normal. :)

[abrightmom]

Thanks Elizabeth. :001_smile:

 

I'd like to accelerate some of Old Test/Ancient Egypt and enjoy NT/GR in full. We have had a lot of OT over the years and don't need to camp on it for so long. I was thumbing through the OT/AE cards and realizing how much we have studied the Bible topics in that stack. Id love to spend some time with it though as we havent done "other history" or much with pharaohs, Egypt, mummies, etc. I was thinking that perhaps we could fly through the lessons in OT/AE as a family to secure the timeline and then take NT/GR in full at a regular pace. Maybe that is a recipe for disaster. I also considered memorizing the OT/AE timeline on our own while just studying the cards we want to without the online class. Then we'd pick up with the NT/GR at regular pace, in full, no rushing.

 

If my oldest was a year younger I wouldn't mind just starting in Ancients and going regular pace. I guess I don't know what is most sensible

 

We did the month long trial with NT/GR last year and it was fantastic. We have enjoyed the OT/AE samples also.

[PeterPan]

Half the deck for OTAE is Bible cards (literally, like count it out, 17 one way or the other). We have some schedules in the files of the VP_Elementary yahoo group I think where people show how to condense the two into one year, which partly involves skipping the Bible cards.

 

What you might like is to do *just* do the history cards from OTAE over the summer and go into NTGR at a normal pace in the fall. You can do 1-2 cards a week like that, when it's already familiar, and be just fine. There's not really as much content to OTAE as there will be in the other levels, kwim? Less material, more that's already familiar. But I wouldn't squeeze that AND ntgr into 9 months. I'd do OTAE in short order over the summer and go into NTGR in the fall. That's just if you're doing the online lessons. If you're doing the cards and teaching it yourself, you can condense OTAE and NTGR into one long year. I'm just saying don't fly through the online lessons, not with young kids. If they skip lessons on the online, they'll be miserable.

 

BTW, is your 9 yo a rising 4th or rising 5th? I must be having a moment, because I don't know. Anyways, just my two cents, but if he's a pretty average boy or precocious at all, what you *might* be happier doing is letting the 9 yo do MARR with the online and let your youngers do OTAE or NTGR. Seriously. The lessons stand on their own and it wouldn't be that hard for you to do the two levels. I'm just thinking about what happens if you are holding him back to allow the others to keep up or bumping the others when they're really not ready. *I* wouldn't push kids a year and two years younger into MARR, just me. I mean you can, but it's really the kind of stuff they need to be ready to be interested in, kwim?

 

You're going to get 20 opinions on that, and I'm not meaning to confuse you. I'm just saying consider splitting them up. If that oldest has done the OT and NTGR material, albeit imperfectly, let him move on. If he watches while his sibs are doing the songs, that might be enough. Maybe he could finish out the NTGR that he started last year by doing it at lightning speed this fall with the free trial. Then go ahead and put *him* into MARR. Keep the rest at the lower level and let them plod.

[abrightmom]

Lynn,

 

I unintentionally derailed your thread. :o So sorry.

 

Elizabeth,

 

My oldest, a rising 4th grader who will turn ten in October, has not studied NT/GR. There is a lot there we'd love to study in full, hopefully as a family. I have considered doing just what you recommended which is skipping the OT Bible cards altogether (we do have all of the history cards) and studying the other topics on our own before starting online with NT. My oldest loves the online class and worked through the material aggressively during the one month trial. His retention was excellent. I wish we could have signed him up at the time but it wasn't possible. It is possible now.

 

Sigh. We will see. My younger son sampled OT and it is a great fit for him level wise. I would really like to study together if possible though. I also care a LOT less about fitting everything in. I used to panic, wring hands, and super plan. Then, the reality of life and health and finances and schooling four different kiddos came home to me. I want to live thru it all and enjoy this fleeting time with my children while still giving them a quality education. That said, I do want to try to get through the whole of history before high school, majoring on Bible history where possible. :001_smile:

[PeterPan]

With what you've described, your ds is going to get through NTGR and will do a large chunk of MARR next year. I would let him. There's no point holding back someone who really, really enjoys it. My dd is that way. And frankly, she reads LOTS of things at once. It's not like their brains are so sectioned as the WTM would have you think. When we were doing american, she would drag out favorite books from the egyptians or vikings and reread them. Seriously! The grammar stage especially is just NOT that picky. They like it all because it's good stories, doesn't matter what time period. Later is when they start to look at you funny and ask why you're throwing them a book on daVinci when they're reading about the Civil War. But honestly, my dd is still good with it.

 

I think if you're older has *done* OTAE via the cards and plows ahead at his own pace, he'll still be able to look back and discuss things with your others and do activities as a family, kwim? It's not like he's going to forget it.

[MomatHWTK]

We purchased two series when they were on sale for $99. I scheduled the first to start our 12-month subscription in February, the second to begin in August (the last possible date). So we will plan to do the first two self-paced sets in about 18 months total.

 

We do one set of 5 lessons per week usually- with some breaks here and there. I am not doing any of the extra reading assignments and I help the kids with the answers. We could go much deeper and had I only bought 1 series we probably would. But as it is, this will be a first exposure for two of my three school-aged children, so we can always cover it again later. My oldest is just benefitting from the classes being available to supplement his textbook learning.

[Another Lynn]

Lynn,

 

I unintentionally derailed your thread. :o So sorry.

 

Elizabeth,

 

My oldest, a rising 4th grader who will turn ten in October, has not studied NT/GR. There is a lot there we'd love to study in full, hopefully as a family. I have considered doing just what you recommended which is skipping the OT Bible cards altogether (we do have all of the history cards) and studying the other topics on our own before starting online with NT. My oldest loves the online class and worked through the material aggressively during the one month trial. His retention was excellent. I wish we could have signed him up at the time but it wasn't possible. It is possible now.

 

Sigh. We will see. My younger son sampled OT and it is a great fit for him level wise. I would really like to study together if possible though. I also care a LOT less about fitting everything in. I used to panic, wring hands, and super plan. Then, the reality of life and health and finances and schooling four different kiddos came home to me. I want to live thru it all and enjoy this fleeting time with my children while still giving them a quality education. That said, I do want to try to get through the whole of history before high school, majoring on Bible history where possible. :001_smile:

 

I don't see it as a de-rail at all! Glad to have you join in! I think we share similar dilemmas. Like you, I don't doubt the sufficiency of VP for history, but I do see assigning 30 minutes on the computer as more streamlined than, say WTM history. Also, I'm still not sure which way I'm addressing skills yet (through history or not) AND I'm not sure what "output" I want to generate for history.... it seems like NOW, as we return to ancients, is THE time to decide that and implement it so we can be consistent through this history cycle. (My middle three kids had very little "history cycle consistency" as we went in and out of HOD the last couple years.... so I'd like to imagine this as a clean slate, a "do-over.") I know the history cycle doesn't have to reign supreme - but for these three dc it's time to go through it in a consistent way (and I don't mean all books, have to tie in, I just mean the "main" history assignment.) I would like to produce either a notebook or a timeline (or both :001_unsure:), but I don't want it to be drudgery.

 

And, I want world peace too. :D

[PeterPan]

Lynn, which of your kids would be doing this? The 7th or just the 4th and 3rd? See, if I were in that position (which I will be someday), I would get the lessons done in 4 days and plan one day a week for projects. On that day do some hands-on, dress up, read aloud or listen to a whole audiobook, make a colorful timeline, that sort of thing. VP is doing the grunt work and leaving you energy to do the *fun* stuff. :)

 

And yes, please add books. I just brought my dd a new stack of books on the Civil War. I haven't typically needed to schedule reading, as she does enough on her own, but that adds up too. But then I guess everything should hurt and be tedious and involve pouring over an encyclopedia page to involve learning, kwim? ;)

[Another Lynn]

Lynn, which of your kids would be doing this? The 7th or just the 4th and 3rd? See, if I were in that position (which I will be someday), I would get the lessons done in 4 days and plan one day a week for projects. On that day do some hands-on, dress up, read aloud or listen to a whole audiobook, make a colorful timeline, that sort of thing. VP is doing the grunt work and leaving you energy to do the *fun* stuff. :)

 

And yes, please add books. I just brought my dd a new stack of books on the Civil War. I haven't typically needed to schedule reading, as she does enough on her own, but that adds up too. But then I guess everything should hurt and be tedious and involve pouring over an encyclopedia page to involve learning, kwim? ;)

 

OhE, the 7th is totally out of this picture... doing something else, so I'm mainly thinking of the 4th and 3rd with K/1st tagging along. I'm LOL at the idea of projects and fun here.... I just don't do it. (My dd said her favorite subject was copywork her entire 1st grade year, LOL). And we may need the 5th day for stuff out of the house.... don't know about that yet. At any rate, I have a loose list of literature for the 3rd and 4th graders. I will have to schedule it very specifically for these two or it won't get done. The 4th grader would probably prefer the encyclopedia (he's the polar opposite of my 7th grader)..... he says he would LIKE to use Kingfisher next year (:001_huh: Huh???). Anyway.... it's the hope of doing a notebook and a timeline that's hanging me up the most I think.

[abrightmom]

I don't see it as a de-rail at all! Glad to have you join in! I think we share similar dilemmas. Like you, I don't doubt the sufficiency of VP for history, but I do see assigning 30 minutes on the computer as more streamlined than, say WTM history. Also, I'm still not sure which way I'm addressing skills yet (through history or not) AND I'm not sure what "output" I want to generate for history.... it seems like NOW, as we return to ancients, is THE time to decide that and implement it so we can be consistent through this history cycle. (My middle three kids had very little "history cycle consistency" as we went in and out of HOD the last couple years.... so I'd like to imagine this as a clean slate, a "do-over.") I know the history cycle doesn't have to reign supreme - but for these three dc it's time to go through it in a consistent way (and I don't mean all books, have to tie in, I just mean the "main" history assignment.) I would like to produce either a notebook or a timeline (or both :001_unsure:), but I don't want it to be drudgery.

 

And, I want world peace too. :D

 

OhE, the 7th is totally out of this picture... doing something else, so I'm mainly thinking of the 4th and 3rd with K/1st tagging along. I'm LOL at the idea of projects and fun here.... I just don't do it. (My dd said her favorite subject was copywork her entire 1st grade year, LOL). And we may need the 5th day for stuff out of the house.... don't know about that yet. At any rate, I have a loose list of literature for the 3rd and 4th graders. I will have to schedule it very specifically for these two or it won't get done. The 4th grader would probably prefer the encyclopedia (he's the polar opposite of my 7th grader)..... he says he would LIKE to use Kingfisher next year (:001_huh: Huh???). Anyway.... it's the hope of doing a notebook and a timeline that's hanging me up the most I think.

We DO, we DO share similar dilemmas and thank-you for your graciousness about the de-railing.

 

The ages of the children we have in mind for the VP plan are the same as well. In fact, if I had a 7th grader we'd have almost identical ages/grades. Very fun group of kids but certainly demanding on the teaching Mama. :) I also love notebooking and would like to have that going through a history cycle.

 

I have been considering every possible curriculum with a variety of scenarios that will achieve my top goals (world peace didn't make the cut :D):

 

Combining my kids

Bible rich with integrated Bible history

Mapwork and Notebooking

Ability to add level appropriate skill work

Gobs of good books

Easy enough to fold the rising K/1st grader into the mix

Streamlined and teacher friendly because, at a minimum, I have to teach writing, English, phonics, Bible, and math to 3 children with a rising, PRECOCIOUS 3-year-old.

 

I'm considering it all right now as I ponder the right path: HOD, MFW, Sonlight, Mystery of History, VP.

 

I ALWAYS come back to VP (or MFW) and have for years. I have yet to take the plunge either way though. :001_smile:

[PeterPan]

Lynn, I don't see the point in sweating over a timeline with a 4th grader. They're going to do extensively timeline work *in the history lessons*. All they need is there. What my dd has asked for, now that she's going into 8th, is for us to do a big time of ALL THE CULTURES all the world. So we're going to do this humonguous year of world geography and the histories of those countries. Seems to me when you do a regular world history study you don't really delve into the particular countries that are non-western very well. No history of Peru, kwim? I said that to my dd and then she contradicted me by spouting stuff she learned in the VP, ornery child. Anyways, you get the idea. It's not like you have to do that timeline vision NOW. You can finish their cycle and do a year of geography and do it then. Or do it when you start over history. The older the better in my book! Then they're more ready to do it *themselves* hehe...

 

I'm really looking forward to this idea that it's going to be dd's project, something she owns, not something I'm trying to make happen. So maybe make out a plan and see where this is going for you and whether it might work out at some point. They really don't need it now along with the VP, honest. Oh, and did you see the timeline Big History panels/book posted in another thread? I thought it was really cool. I'm going to buy one. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0890516324/ref=gno_cart_title_1 This is it with panels you can hang on the wall, or you can get the panels bound in a book for a buck more.

[Another Lynn]

Lynn, I don't see the point in sweating over a timeline with a 4th grader. They're going to do extensively timeline work *in the history lessons*. All they need is there. What my dd has asked for, now that she's going into 8th, is for us to do a big time of ALL THE CULTURES all the world. So we're going to do this humonguous year of world geography and the histories of those countries. Seems to me when you do a regular world history study you don't really delve into the particular countries that are non-western very well. No history of Peru, kwim? I said that to my dd and then she contradicted me by spouting stuff she learned in the VP, ornery child. Anyways, you get the idea. It's not like you have to do that timeline vision NOW. You can finish their cycle and do a year of geography and do it then. Or do it when you start over history. The older the better in my book! Then they're more ready to do it *themselves* hehe...

 

I'm really looking forward to this idea that it's going to be dd's project, something she owns, not something I'm trying to make happen. So maybe make out a plan and see where this is going for you and whether it might work out at some point. They really don't need it now along with the VP, honest. Oh, and did you see the timeline Big History panels/book posted in another thread? I thought it was really cool. I'm going to buy one. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0890516324/ref=gno_cart_title_1 This is it with panels you can hang on the wall, or you can get the panels bound in a book for a buck more.

 

Oooooo, thanks for sharing this idea again.... sometimes I'm a little slow :D. I like your plan for a couple reasons.... not the least of which is the very low chance that we would actually stick with a project through an entire history cycle, LOL.

 

Now my other decision is what to do for Bible Study next year.... Focus on Bible history make it part of our ancient history study? do Bible history separately (and possibly have a lot of overlap) or do something completely different? We have participated in BSF the last couple years, but probably will not next year (even though they are studying Genesis which would be great.)

[Another Lynn]

We DO, we DO share similar dilemmas and thank-you for your graciousness about the de-railing.

 

The ages of the children we have in mind for the VP plan are the same as well. In fact, if I had a 7th grader we'd have almost identical ages/grades. Very fun group of kids but certainly demanding on the teaching Mama. :) I also love notebooking and would like to have that going through a history cycle.

 

I have been considering every possible curriculum with a variety of scenarios that will achieve my top goals (world peace didn't make the cut :D):

 

Combining my kids

Bible rich with integrated Bible history

Mapwork and Notebooking

Ability to add level appropriate skill work

Gobs of good books

Easy enough to fold the rising K/1st grader into the mix

Streamlined and teacher friendly because, at a minimum, I have to teach writing, English, phonics, Bible, and math to 3 children with a rising, PRECOCIOUS 3-year-old.

 

I'm considering it all right now as I ponder the right path: HOD, MFW, Sonlight, Mystery of History, VP.

 

I ALWAYS come back to VP (or MFW) and have for years. I have yet to take the plunge either way though. :001_smile:

 

Katrina,

I started to reply last night and got pulled away. I want and ponder the same. Though I love some things about HOD, I end up feeling like it has two many "little" assignments.... too much changing gears. I want more streamlined. When I make an assignment sheet for my kids, I want history in one block.... not three or four. MFW - I think when I look at it I'm not very excited about their spines, especially for CtG - I start mentally planning what I would change or substitute and then it's like watching grains of sands slip between my fingers; I'm left with little. Sonlight never seemed like a very good solution to me because I wanted the 4-year cycle (inspite of dabbling with HOD, LOL). I have considered MOH for a "get 'er done, march-through" of ancients alongside the VP. It would be a quick read aloud. But I might decide we don't need it.... I guess it also depends on what I decide to do for Bible Study. I'm just thinking "outloud" here.... not trying to tell you what to do!!!

 

I do always come back to "streamlined" as a priority. If I feel like I have too many resources or too much overlap in my plans, I get stressed and grumpy. I've got to be able to "open and go" even on days that I don't feel like it or we have interruptions.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling more than offering you something new. But I appreciate not being alone in this!!

[delaney]

This thread has been awesome. Although we do OM I feel like I can use VP as an extra to be sure they are getting the full course of the cycle. It takes another thing off my growing "to do" list. I will order the catalog so I can see the readings they suggest to go with the cards.

[PeterPan]

This thread has been awesome. Although we do OM I feel like I can use VP as an extra to be sure they are getting the full course of the cycle. It takes another thing off my growing "to do" list. I will order the catalog so I can see the readings they suggest to go with the cards.

 

You're going to LOVE the catalog!!! :)

[PeterPan]

Oooooo, thanks for sharing this idea again.... sometimes I'm a little slow :D. I like your plan for a couple reasons.... not the least of which is the very low chance that we would actually stick with a project through an entire history cycle, LOL.

 

Now my other decision is what to do for Bible Study next year.... Focus on Bible history make it part of our ancient history study? do Bible history separately (and possibly have a lot of overlap) or do something completely different? We have participated in BSF the last couple years, but probably will not next year (even though they are studying Genesis which would be great.)

 

You are SO cracking me up here! :lol: HOW could I know that someone would start a project with a 4th grader, realize it was MOM driving all the work, and have it fizzle? :D

 

Hmm, Bible study... So you don't want the commitment of going to the BSF meetings? Or you've soured on the situation? Just to play devil's advocate (or angel's advocate? mercy!), what is the possibility that you'd buy something to do yourself and find life creeping in and the materials not getting done? That would be pretty persuasive to me. If that's not an issue and you're sure you want the change, then are you wanting to combine all the levels or keep your oldest separate from the rest?

 

What I got for my dd for this coming year is "Taking the Old Testament Challenge" by Judson Poling. It's the Bible study guide MFW uses for their AHL core for 9th. It would be plenty for an 8th grader. What I'm trying to figure out is whether you could have *all* the kids do the readings or read the Scripture selections for the day aloud together and then ask the littles obvious questions or trimmed questions that fit their level and then meet with your oldest later to discuss more fully. Or just have them all around while you discuss more fully. That's just whatever dynamic you're trying to create I guess. Anyways, that's one option.

 

Ryrie has a survey of Bible doctrines book I got and want to use with her at some point in the near future. (Near being 1-3 years, haha.) And I have the AIG Pilgrim's Progress study that I'm desperate to do with her this summer. I have this theory about how she's going to finish out the VP online american to modern course and overlap that with american geography via scrapbooking and Trail Guide and reading books from the library. Then when she finishes that we start into the geography of say England whatnot while doing the Pilgrim's Progress study. I don't know, too many great ideas!!! But the Pilgrim's Progress thing would go well along with MARR in a year or two with your kids. It would be delightful with say 9th, 6th, 5th, kwim? You'd just have this fabulous wealth of readiness and discussion and ability to implement their creative ideas. (final PP game to act it out, etc. etc.)

 

Whatever you do will be great, I'm sure. :)

[Another Lynn]

BSF - There is much I love about BSF, but I think we're getting to the point that we just can't do one more thing out of the house. We used to be able to keep kids in the same activities for efficiency sake, but that doesn't work across the board as much any more. I don't want the commitment of the meetings. And here's the clincher, it's the same night of the week that our co-op meeets, and it's REALLY hard to go back out after a big day away from home, iykwim. (We don't live close to anything.) And you're right there IS a good chance of buying something and having the same problem. (I was considering God's Great Covenant - Old Testament I before I decided maybe not).

 

Not too far off your suggestion of the O.T. Challenge, is something I already have on hand - Greenleaf's Guide to the O.T. It covers mainly the historical parts, but that would be sufficient for this age. And if it got to be "too much" for the younger couple, I could always switch over to the Children's Golden Bible. (The 8th grader will be separate.) So I'm not sure how logical this sounds, but I was thinking that if I wanted to read MOH alongside the VP, that the O.T. Guide would be a little bit redundant and maybe I would do something totally different like a study of Proverbs..... But if I decide I prefer the O.T. Guide, then maybe there's no need to use MOH alongside VP. Also, not sure if I would use the O.T. Guide over two years, or pressure myself to do it in one (there are 196 lessons). :tongue_smilie:

 

(I like the idea of pairing the Pilgrim's Progress guide with MARR!)

 

Anyway, I SO appreciate you helping me think through various options and appreciate your vote of confidence. :D

[abrightmom]

Katrina,

I started to reply last night and got pulled away. I want and ponder the same. Though I love some things about HOD, I end up feeling like it has two many "little" assignments.... too much changing gears. I want more streamlined. When I make an assignment sheet for my kids, I want history in one block.... not three or four. MFW - I think when I look at it I'm not very excited about their spines, especially for CtG - I start mentally planning what I would change or substitute and then it's like watching grains of sands slip between my fingers; I'm left with little. Sonlight never seemed like a very good solution to me because I wanted the 4-year cycle (inspite of dabbling with HOD, LOL). I have considered MOH for a "get 'er done, march-through" of ancients alongside the VP. It would be a quick read aloud. But I might decide we don't need it.... I guess it also depends on what I decide to do for Bible Study. I'm just thinking "outloud" here.... not trying to tell you what to do!!!

 

I do always come back to "streamlined" as a priority. If I feel like I have too many resources or too much overlap in my plans, I get stressed and grumpy. I've got to be able to "open and go" even on days that I don't feel like it or we have interruptions.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling more than offering you something new. But I appreciate not being alone in this!!

Thanks Lynn. :001_smile: I so appreciate your input and humble ramblings.

 

HOD is just dreamy but it isn't realistic for my family. Yes, a lot to do and hard to combine. Deal breakers.

 

Now see, I LIKE MFW's spines for CTG and RTR and the strong focus on Bible. :001_smile: MFW also hits all of my criteria, including the family learning, Notebooking, and good map work. It is streamlined, leaving room for my add ons. The book basket is awesome. I have always loved their guides. Marie has so much insight and adds a richness to the weeks that resonates with me. Oh, I even like the science and find it flexible enough to mess with if necessary. I think it is easy enough to add in WTM logic stage skills for the 5th and older set while still enjoying family studies and discussions. The hands on stuff has always been fun and doable. It is also easy to skip when needed. Flexible! I don't know how much I'd like it for 7th and 8th grade but for the next 2-3 years it would work well here.

 

But I also love, love, love the online courses with VP and their memory work, Bible, and literature selections are my favorite. My boys dig the online courses and are so motivated with them. They make the memory work painless and the info just STICKS.

 

If it wasn't redundant we would enjoy MFW and VP OR Sonlight and VP with no thought for meshing the history topics. :001_smile:

 

As for Bible, I wonder if itis necessary to add much when studying ancients, especially if you are reading and discussing all that OT. Perhaps it is a year to read through a more topical study such as Training Hearts, Teaching Minds or Leading Little Ones to God or God's Names by Sally Michael.

 

ETA: I really want to use God's Great Covenant and it's my first choice for official Bible study. I am trying to figure out, though, how to keep it from being too much OT for the kids. That might be a fruitless worry. I just don't know. By the way Lynn, you are scaring me! I am also considering Greenleaf. I love the OT History guide. I am pondering how to find the right focus with all of this without it being overkill. Sigh. We are probably looking for the exact same thing.

Edited May 6, 2012 by abrightmom

[PeterPan]

No wonder you're wanting to drop BSF!!! That makes me tired just thinking about it!! And no, I don't feel like we have a whole day to lose like that either, even for good stuff. An afternoon is one thing, a whole day is another. And then you have the PREP for the co-op stuff. Just as a total aside, are you sure you *need* the co-op if you're doing the VP history?

 

The Greenleaf guide is too young for an 8th grader. You know what might be more open and go for the 4th grade crowd are the Character Sketches books. Have you ever seen them? My mother read them to us when we were little, and they were very memorable. My dh read them to my dd around that age. Animal stories with verses and a character tie in. There's also a Bible story in the unit for that animal and character trait, and there are coordinating coloring books if you want. You just open and read, no prep. Snuggle at night, read, and you're done. Definitely can get done. :)

 

I wouldn't add on MOH to the VP. You're just asking to confuse yourself. Do MOH *or* VP. That's just too much to do both. We did some and stopped. It just got silly.

 

Amazon has samples on that Taking the OT Challenge book. It has a really straightforward set-up, with the reading assignment and a few questions. Your oldest could do the work on his own and meet with you to discuss for a few minutes. I got two copies on the amazon marketplace, figuring I'd let dd write in her copy. I think amazon has samples. It's very good.

[abrightmom]

Elizabeth,

 

Is this the Pilgrim's Progress study?

 

You have so many fun ideas Elizabeth and you are often the voice of reason. :001_smile:

[PeterPan]

Elizabeth,

 

Is this the Pilgrim's Progress study?

 

You have so many fun ideas Elizabeth and you are often the voice of reason. :001_smile:

 

Yup! But if you want a little voice of reason, hehe, could I suggest you read Helen Taylor's Little Pilgrim's Progress with the ages of kids you have and save the full AIG curriculum for later? :) You could get the audio now if you want. I have a nephew that enjoys listening to it at age 5 and 6, where my dd never really got into it. Little Pilgrim's Progress though is MARVELOUS and would be fabulous for those ages. I think there's also a study guide for it available through Rainbow. Didn't use it myself but heard about it after the fact.

[abrightmom]

Thanks Elizabeth :001_smile:

 

We did read Little Pilgrims Progress and no worries! I'm not thinking about the AIG study for right now.:D Just filing that away for later. I like the looks of Dangerous Journey also and want to read that with them. We can read HT's again as well since DD6 was too little and DS8 doesn't remember much.

[PeterPan]

Makes sense! You know the next step up from that is to start reading missionary biographies. My dd doesn't love them (the writing style), but the YWAM biographies fit the age.

 

Things like this are the one time when I really envy people with kids close together, that ability to have a "group" effect for a study together. Oh well. :)

[abrightmom]

Makes sense! You know the next step up from that is to start reading missionary biographies. My dd doesn't love them (the writing style), but the YWAM biographies fit the age.

 

Things like this are the one time when I really envy people with kids close together, that ability to have a "group" effect for a study together. Oh well. :)

 

Oh yes, great reminder about starting the bios. :001_smile:

 

I hope the group effect is as much fun as I've always dreamed it would be. :D It is causing unending stress trying to find the right starting point; challenge the oldest while not swamping the youngest while keeping it doable and not forgetting all of the basics are more important than history and science. :svengo:

[PeterPan]

Katrina, I feel for your problem, which is why I suggested you use the VP history to let that oldest bust out. It's NOT fully accurate that the content is not as important as skills. Skills are important, but content is what gives our kids JOY and keeps them happy. You were telling me how HAPPY your kid was doing that NTGR. Then you have to get out of the way and let him DO that.

 

I guess this conversation I had with a girl a number of years ago made a big impression on me. She was in 7th or 8th at the time and having to do science with her little siblings because her mom had set up this paradigm that doing things TOGETHER was important. Maybe it was to the mom, but the kid sensed it was holding her back and was degrading. It's NOT going to work out well to hold the oldest to the same materials as the rest, just can't happen. What you need is stuff that's independent enough for him that it lets him move forward. Don't hold him back! This is the age when they WANT to grow up and sprout. Let him do that. Let the VP stuff help you do that.

 

They have years and years yet to discuss history and be profound. There's no profundity now, not with 7 yo's, mercy. That's going to come in about 5 years, once they go through puberty and start asking why.

[abrightmom]

Katrina, I feel for your problem, which is why I suggested you use the VP history to let that oldest bust out. It's NOT fully accurate that the content is not as important as skills. Skills are important, but content is what gives our kids JOY and keeps them happy. You were telling me how HAPPY your kid was doing that NTGR. Then you have to get out of the way and let him DO that.

 

I guess this conversation I had with a girl a number of years ago made a big impression on me. She was in 7th or 8th at the time and having to do science with her little siblings because her mom had set up this paradigm that doing things TOGETHER was important. Maybe it was to the mom, but the kid sensed it was holding her back and was degrading. It's NOT going to work out well to hold the oldest to the same materials as the rest, just can't happen. What you need is stuff that's independent enough for him that it lets him move forward. Don't hold him back! This is the age when they WANT to grow up and sprout. Let him do that. Let the VP stuff help you do that.

 

They have years and years yet to discuss history and be profound. There's no profundity now, not with 7 yo's, mercy. That's going to come in about 5 years, once they go through puberty and start asking why.

 

See, you ARE the Voice of Reason.

 

:001_wub:Thanks Elizabeth.

 

We are learning, albeit slowly, to let our oldest grow up (as much as a 9 year old boy can) while not asking his younger brother to do more than he should have to just so they can "study together". I do want him to have fun with the VP because we have a lot of skill work in math, English, writing, etc. He can really, truly have fun with history and science right now. We want to let him study Sonlight Science E this next year. It was written for him and he LOVeS the idea that he can run it himself :001_smile: ( I do plan on using BJU science in a couple of years and he will have to work a lot harder then.)

 

I looked at the LPP study on Rainbow. Now I want to work through LPP/Dangerous Journey and Hinds Feet on High Places (a lovely children's version) with the kids this next year. The family guides look wonderful with lots of rich discussion and hands on fun. Using VP for history gives me time to do this.

[PeterPan]

Ooo see, now you've taught me something! I'll have to look for that Hinds Feet on High Places. Have never heard of it. :)

 

Glad you're sorting it all out. You're on the right track. You'll get there! :)

[Another Lynn]

Thanks Lynn. :001_smile: I so appreciate your input and humble ramblings.

 

HOD is just dreamy but it isn't realistic for my family. Yes, a lot to do and hard to combine. Deal breakers.

 

Now see, I LIKE MFW's spines for CTG and RTR and the strong focus on Bible. :001_smile: MFW also hits all of my criteria, including the family learning, Notebooking, and good map work. It is streamlined, leaving room for my add ons. The book basket is awesome. I have always loved their guides. Marie has so much insight and adds a richness to the weeks that resonates with me. Oh, I even like the science and find it flexible enough to mess with if necessary. I think it is easy enough to add in WTM logic stage skills for the 5th and older set while still enjoying family studies and discussions. The hands on stuff has always been fun and doable. It is also easy to skip when needed. Flexible! I don't know how much I'd like it for 7th and 8th grade but for the next 2-3 years it would work well here.

 

But I also love, love, love the online courses with VP and their memory work, Bible, and literature selections are my favorite. My boys dig the online courses and are so motivated with them. They make the memory work painless and the info just STICKS.

 

If it wasn't redundant we would enjoy MFW and VP OR Sonlight and VP with no thought for meshing the history topics. :001_smile:

 

As for Bible, I wonder if itis necessary to add much when studying ancients, especially if you are reading and discussing all that OT. Perhaps it is a year to read through a more topical study such as Training Hearts, Teaching Minds or Leading Little Ones to God or God's Names by Sally Michael.

 

ETA: I really want to use God's Great Covenant and it's my first choice for official Bible study. I am trying to figure out, though, how to keep it from being too much OT for the kids. That might be a fruitless worry. I just don't know. By the way Lynn, you are scaring me! I am also considering Greenleaf. I love the OT History guide. I am pondering how to find the right focus with all of this without it being overkill. Sigh. We are probably looking for the exact same thing.

 

Katrina, Thanks for the suggestions for Bible Study. I have Leading Little Ones and possibly have Training Hearts, Teaching Minds somewhere :tongue_smilie:, but hadn't heard of God's Names by Sally Michael. I do have a Family Devotional Guide for studying the Ten Commandments also by Sally Michael. That's cool that you were also drawn to GGC and thinking about the Greenleaf Guide too. Ahhhhh, decisions! :001_smile:

 

Sounds like MFW could be a great fit for you guys. But I could also see VP giving your kids lots of good things, freeing you up to enjoy read alouds.

 

No wonder you're wanting to drop BSF!!! That makes me tired just thinking about it!! And no, I don't feel like we have a whole day to lose like that either, even for good stuff. An afternoon is one thing, a whole day is another. And then you have the PREP for the co-op stuff. Just as a total aside, are you sure you *need* the co-op if you're doing the VP history?

 

The Greenleaf guide is too young for an 8th grader. You know what might be more open and go for the 4th grade crowd are the Character Sketches books. Have you ever seen them? My mother read them to us when we were little, and they were very memorable. My dh read them to my dd around that age. Animal stories with verses and a character tie in. There's also a Bible story in the unit for that animal and character trait, and there are coordinating coloring books if you want. You just open and read, no prep. Snuggle at night, read, and you're done. Definitely can get done. :)

 

I wouldn't add on MOH to the VP. You're just asking to confuse yourself. Do MOH *or* VP. That's just too much to do both. We did some and stopped. It just got silly.

 

Amazon has samples on that Taking the OT Challenge book. It has a really straightforward set-up, with the reading assignment and a few questions. Your oldest could do the work on his own and meet with you to discuss for a few minutes. I got two copies on the amazon marketplace, figuring I'd let dd write in her copy. I think amazon has samples. It's very good.

 

<sigh> co-ops.... that's a whole 'nother story, LOL. But we're beginning to learn something about what kind we like, etc. Certainly I have seen some that were of no academic benefit, but I think we need the consistent community. For some reason most of the ones I know of are the same day as BSF.

 

I will have to look for the Character Sketches. Sounds like something they would enjoy.

 

Thanks for discouraging MOH on top of VP. I keep telling myself - one thing per subject.... balance....

 

PMing you about my options for my 8th grader. :)

 

Thanks again for sharing your VP experience and your voice of reason (I agree with Katrina, LOL)!

[Shawneinfl]

My 6th grader is doing Explorers and absolutely loves it. I really wish I had gone ahead and ordered Ancients to start in Aug. Does anyone know if they will do another group buy? $99 was a great price but I just can't justify $250 for a history course for elementary. The only thing we skip is the timeline song since we are a Classical Conversations family. This has been a great timesaver for me this year and I never have to beg my son to do history.

[Karis]

think the self-paced are $199