What to do, what to do?

[amy g.]

Last night my 16 and 13 year old were arguing. Nothing big, just "stop that." "no you stop that." "just be quiet." "no, you be quiet."

 

I told them that was exactly the behavior I needed them to grow out of. And my 16 year old actually said,"whatever".

 

I said, "when you are disrespectful to me, don't expect me to do you favors like driving you to class." Then he laughed.

 

I did make him apologize, but here it is, almost time for his community college class, and he is still sleeping because I didn't go in there and say, "get up, no, I really mean it, get up, I need you to eat some food, didn't I tell you to get up? Where are your shoes? Did you brush your teeth? Get in the car. Where are your books? Get out of the car, and get your books.... "

 

On the one hand, he may even have a final in that class, and he sure won't maintain his 4.0 if he misses it. On the other hand, why should I do any favors for people who disrespect me?

 

I can not force him to feel something for me that he doesn't. Maybe he is right that I'm not deserving of respect, but even if that were true, he needs to learn that you have to at least pretend to respect people who you are dependent on, such as a tyrant boss. If you don't like it, get independent.

 

Here are my choices, wake him up, a few minutes before class, and try to reason with him, or let him sleep through it, or wake him up and take him with the understanding that if it happens again, he will loose his phone and computer for a month.

 

When I try to talk to my husband about it, he says, "I promise he will outgrow it."

 

When I try to talk to my girlfriends, they say I should consider myself lucky because he is such a good kid who makes good grades and doesn't have a girlfriend and doesn't drink or do drugs.

 

Oh, what to do?

[Parrothead]

 

I can not force him to feel something for me that he doesn't. Maybe he is right that I'm not deserving of respect, but even if that were true, he needs to learn that you have to at least pretend to respect people who you are dependent on, such as a tyrant boss. If you don't like it, get independent.

 

Well, just the simple fact that you gave birth to him and raised him is enough to be deserving of a certain amount of respect.

 

FWIW I think you are going the right thing by not getting him up and out the door. He needs to be the one doing that on his own. And he should be asking on Sunday evenings if you will be able to provide him with either a ride or a vehicle for class during the week. That way he can make alternate arrangements in a timely manner if you can't drive him/lend him the car.

 

Buy him an alarm clock and tell him you will no longer be the one to get him up in the mornings. Maybe he will respect that.

[ByGrace3]

I think you are right in your expectations, but I would not enforce them until you have made them clear to him. Lay the expectations out clearly, "I expect you to set an alarm, be read to go on time, take care of your own breakfast and be ready to go by X time if you would like a ride. I will not wake you up, nag you to be ready or take you late." Say it once, and then back it up. I am big on reality consequences, taking away a computer or phone has nothing to do with him being late or not getting up on his own. Reality consequences.

[simka2]

Hmmmm, maybe poke your head in and say, "are there any finals today?" That should be all the reminder he needs. ;) does he respond better to loss of privledges or physical labor.

[Mommyof4ks]

I think you are right in your expectations, but I would not enforce them until you have made them clear to him. Lay the expectations out clearly, "I expect you to set an alarm, be read to go on time, take care of your own breakfast and be ready to go by X time if you would like a ride. I will not wake you up, nag you to be ready or take you late." Say it once, and then back it up. I am big on reality consequences, taking away a computer or phone has nothing to do with him being late or not getting up on his own. Reality consequences.

 

:iagree: I would get him up today, and when he gets home set out clear expectations for the future and frame it with the conversation last night. You do deserve respect!

[Seeker of Schole]

I think you are right in your expectations, but I would not enforce them until you have made them clear to him. Lay the expectations out clearly, "I expect you to set an alarm, be read to go on time, take care of your own breakfast and be ready to go by X time if you would like a ride. I will not wake you up, nag you to be ready or take you late." Say it once, and then back it up. I am big on reality consequences, taking away a computer or phone has nothing to do with him being late or not getting up on his own. Reality consequences.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

My oldest is currently learning time management lessons as well - the hard way. We sat down with her, laid out the expectations and now she has to follow them or learn the hard way.

[merry gardens]

Wake him up. Drive him to class.

 

Take away other privledges, but not that one. At 13 and 16 in this country, school isn't just a priveledge; it's a responsibility. Since you signed up a minor for a college class, you are ultimately responsible to get him there.

 

However, it he continues to act this way, if I were you, I would seriously consider not signing him up again. His behavior puts other homeschoolers at risk of losing the ability taking community college classes in the future.

[amy g.]

I think he enjoys physical labor.

 

Missing class is a natural consequence of not getting up.

 

If I get him up, then make my expectations clear (again) then losing his phone and computer would be a punishment for not treating me in a respectful manner in the future.

 

Once, I did tell him how frustrating it is to be the only one in a family of 7 who can tell time. He said, "we don't have to because we have you"

 

I guess he is telling me pretty plainly what he needs me to do.

[Catherine]

I do think he needs to show more respect. But I also think that we teach other people how to treat us, and I've certainly been very guilty of teaching my boys the wrong thing in this area.

 

Personally, I think that if your pattern all along has been to wake him for class, and he's in danger of not making it to the final if you don't wake him today, then you should wake him.

 

BUT, it's time to introduce some new responsibility measures. Warn him that you will no longer be solving his problems for him, you are not waking him for class, or reminding him to do his work, etc. He of course will not even acknowledge that you've done anything for him. Then let the chips fall where they may.

 

Failure is a humbling but very effective teacher. I had to let my son fail this past fall, and more than likely, this failure cost him admission to the college he really wanted to attend (or maybe not, I don't know). He needed to change his habits significantly in order to get up in the morning, make it to class, keep gas in his car, etc. But it's also important to be fair, ie tell your child ahead of time that you are going to expect that he contribute more, and that he'll be in charge of himself. Rather than insist my son respect me, I showed him I was worthy of respect, and he got it.

[IlluminatedAttic]

I think you are right in your expectations, but I would not enforce them until you have made them clear to him. Lay the expectations out clearly, "I expect you to set an alarm, be read to go on time, take care of your own breakfast and be ready to go by X time if you would like a ride. I will not wake you up, nag you to be ready or take you late." Say it once, and then back it up. I am big on reality consequences, taking away a computer or phone has nothing to do with him being late or not getting up on his own. Reality consequences.

 

:iagree: Also, you said you made him apologize, so probably in his mind he believes he corrected the situation and avoided the consequence.

[Trish]

We're talking about 2 separate issues here? One is the disrespect, and the other is his ability to take responsibility for getting ready for class in a timely fashion? It's a little confusing to combine the two.

 

Re: disrespect, well, okay, but was this a huge argument? I don't butt in EVERY time my kids fight, but if it escalates I do. Or the name-calling starts. The way you described it didn't sound like a huge deal. And it would be nice if teenagers would snap to attention every time we corrected them, but they don't. For that one I'd say Pick Your Battles. The whole thing just didn't sound like a big enough deal to bring out the cavalary.

 

Re: getting him up -- so he's been doing well all semester, gradewise, and you're considering allowing him to possibly miss a final to show him he needs to take more responsibility for himself? I think that's blindsiding the poor kid. Yes he's got some bad habits there, but I think those should be addressed at a different time than Near The Final Exam. Maybe prior to the beginning of next semester? So he knows what the expectations are and you all can get on the same page?

 

Enforcing consequences now and risking a detrimental semester seems to send the wrong message, IMO. It seems much too punitive. I'm not disagreeing with your concerns, but I think the "let him fail" plan at THIS particular point would be counterproductive.

 

Work on those issues when you have time to discuss it with him beforehand, not as a reaction to an irritating event plus an ongoing habit.

 

I also agree with your hubby that SOME of this will resolve with maturity. I hope you're able to have a better time with it, but I do think the key is sitting down with him (and hubby) AHEAD of time, not in the heat of the moment or at the end of a so-far successful semester.

 

Good luck! :grouphug:

[merry gardens]

I think he enjoys physical labor.

 

Missing class is a natural consequence of not getting up.

 

If I get him up, then make my expectations clear (again) then losing his phone and computer would be a punishment for not treating me in a respectful manner in the future.

 

Once, I did tell him how frustrating it is to be the only one in a family of 7 who can tell time. He said, "we don't have to because we have you"

 

I guess he is telling me pretty plainly what he needs me to do.

I hear him saying something like,

"Please, Mommy, wake me up and take me to class. Please, pretty please, take away my phone and my computer. Give me lots of physical chores and discipline, just like they do in the army. Ask Daddy to show me how to be a real man. I'm going to push you and push you and undermine your confidence until you do just what I'm asking. Until you and Daddy help me grow up, I'm going to keep acting like an unpleasant, disrespectful child. So please, pretty please with sugar on it, help me grow up!"

Edited April 25, 2012 by merry gardens

[Amy in NH]

 

Buy him an alarm clock and tell him you will no longer be the one to get him up in the mornings. Maybe he will respect that.

 

:iagree:

[amy g.]

Yes, you are right. Since I made him apologize, he assumed I would not still be mad this morning.

 

I did get him up, and explained that if he wants me to do him favors, he has to convincingly pretend that he respects me, or lose privileges.

 

He wanted to tell me why I was wrong last night, and why my 13 year old was at fault, but I said that was not the point. The point is that you may get a boss that is completely unfair, but you have to suck it up and get along until you find another job. You don't go into his office and explain why he is.

 

He said that he loves me, and thinks I'm a wonderful mother, but sometimes my inconsistency throws him off.

 

I'll try to work on being more consistent.

[lmrich]

Take the phone away.

Take computer time away.

 

Most 16 years olds care a lot more about that than going to class.

 

I would refuse to drive him to fun stuff not to school.

 

Aren't teenagers fun?!

[Tammyla]

:grouphug: I'd still buy that alarm clock and let him shoulder more of the reponsibility.

 

Yes, you are right. Since I made him apologize, he assumed I would not still be mad this morning.

 

I did get him up, and explained that if he wants me to do him favors, he has to convincingly pretend that he respects me, or lose privileges.

 

He wanted to tell me why I was wrong last night, and why my 13 year old was at fault, but I said that was not the point. The point is that you may get a boss that is completely unfair, but you have to suck it up and get along until you find another job. You don't go into his office and explain why he is.

 

He said that he loves me, and thinks I'm a wonderful mother, but sometimes my inconsistency throws him off.

 

I'll try to work on being more consistent.

[amy g.]

He has multiple alarm clocks. Sometimes they are not set. Sometimes they go off, but he doesn't get up, sometimes they go off, but he is sleeping in headphones and they only wake up the baby sleeping next door.

 

Somehow dd and I manage to get up at 5:00 everyday, and Dh gets up at 4:30.

[Scuff]

There's two issues here. He needs to get himself up for class. That doesn't have to be punitive and shouldn't start by you letting him sleep through finals. He also needs to respect you. I probably wouldn't make that you not driving him to class, even though that's what you threatened. Take the kid to class and take his computer/phone/whatever. He needs a consequence for the way he treated you *this* time. (I'm the queen of "next time", too. Most of the time you need to stop threatening and just do.)

[amy g.]

Well, he was up at 6:00 studying for his Spanish test today, and then he made himself some eggs to help him focus in class, so I'm already having a better day than I did yesterday.

 

Thanks to everyone for your input.