Slipper Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 We have a situation in our family that seems to be getting bigger. My brother and sis in law are truly lazy. No flames please, but our family (extended) can no longer help them. Their house has gone into foreclosure (again) and they said that this time it looked really bad. They have asked if they can come live with us since we have a spare farmhouse. (The farmhouse is 175 years old and contains four rooms total - plus, it's being used by my husband to do repair work for computers which is a part time job). We told them no. They asked my mother if they could come move in at her guest house (which is a one room shed, although it does have a bathroom) and she said no. My brother is unemployed. The company he worked for laid him off quite a while back (I want to say a year or more?). They asked for volunteers to be laid off first and he volunteered. (He said it was too stressful to wonder if he would be laid off and decided it was best to go ahead and have it happen). He figured that the extra benefits given to our state due to high unemployment would last for a while, but apparently he is losing his unemployment in the next few months. (He has not interviewed anywhere). My SIL doesn't work. They have been in trouble with CPS before over the condition of their home and inappropriate clothing/food for the kids. They eat out every meal and they are simply wasteful. We have tried to help them. They have taken from us, stolen small items and regularly ask for money. I've tried letting them work for me, but the work is done slowly and very sloppily. If it's yard work, they end up pouring the leftover gasoline into their own cars (I caught them last time :( ) and they have broken our equipment twice (we paid to repair it). They are now saying that when the time comes for them to move, they are simply going to come over here and dare us to make them leave. (My mother and I have adjoining acreage, so 'here' means both of us). My brother has a sense of entitlement although I'm not sure why. If that day comes, I was thinking about making them leave, but offering to keep my niece (and finding a place for my nephew - we have all girls and simply don't have the money or space). Niece is almost 17 and nephew will soon be 15. I think losing their kids might be the only thing that makes brother/sis in law wake up. I can't do anything else. If they show up here, do I call a social worker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 It wouldn't be your decision about keeping the one child. It would be the courts. And how would the young man feel if he weren't offered a home? This sounds difficult and complicated. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 If they show up there, call the police. If you want to take your niece in, that's up to you, but she is almost an adult, and should be able to work off her room and board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 I know it would be difficult, but I don't know how we could do more. If my mother couldn't do it, then my Dad would probably offer (he lives a few miles down the road). Honestly, I'm not sure which child is in more need, my niece who wants to go to college (and has the grades for it) but nobody is helping her or my nephew who still can't read (and who hasn't been tested even though dyslexia runs in our family). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsH Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 We did end up parenting both my niece and nephew (6 and 2.5, at the time) when their own parents were clearly unable to do so. CPS had been involved and were very concerned about a few things, but had not (yet?) taken emergency custody of the children. The social worker frankly seemed relieved when my sister decided to take us up on our offer to have the kids for a while. It was my sister's decision and so CPS basically ended up just closing the case (which wasn't exactly right and proper... they should have transferred it to our state, we ended up not fighting that decision because we preferred not having them involved, though that did mean loss of benefits). Do you think the kids' parents would be interested in an offer from you to house their kids, even if you can't house the parents? We ended up getting a power of attorney which stated we could act as parents. However, if one of the parents had shown up and wanted to take the kids, they could have, so it was a very tenuous legal situation. We probably should have gotten temporary guardianship through the court, which basically means the judge grants it for a certain amount of time and when that time is up all parties go back to court and a decision is made about whether or not to continue the guardianship arrangement. From what we understood, fighting the kids' parents over guardianship was not in anyone's best interest since in the court's eyes, they were probably "capable" of parenting (it's a pretty low bar here...) and we would have alienated the kids' parents. My situation is obviously different from yours, but hopefully it gives you some ideas for things to look into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thea Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I'm pressed for time so I'm responding to remind me to come back to this thread later. We've raised my niece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker of Schole Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 If you don't want them on your land, be sure to involve the authorities. In many states, once someone has lived in a certain place for a certain amount of time they then have rights to that place. For example, we took my SIL in for 9 months. At that point we could not have just kicked her out, we would have had to go through the entire eviction process, despite the fact that her name was not on anything and she had not been paying any money to live here. So keep an eye on that empty house, and be prepared to take action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 :grouphug: how very hard. given that you have one with anxiety (and autism) and one with irritable bowel syndrome (which can also be triggered by stress), i would not go the route of adding an older child or two to the mix. your kids simply have to be your priority. if your mom feels able to, great. (maybe) if your dad feels able to, great. (maybe) but i think you need to take care of your own three and model being a responsible parent. (ie putting your own children's needs ahead of other people's needs, including sometimes your own need not to be stressed out because you might be laid off. sigh/scream). :grouphug: ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 At this point, nobody has suggested to my brother/SIL that someone else raise the kids. It's being talked around and my mother and father (divorced and re-married) are waiting on my brother to bring up the subject of needing a place to live. My Dad has offered them a place to live before, but he had conditions for them living with him, which were: 1. Dad would pay all of their bills, but they would turn over any money they receive so he could pay bills first, then they would receive an allowance and the rest would be saved for them. (Dad would pay all electric, food, etc). 2. They would learn to cook and clean and would actively participate in those activities. 3. There would be earnest job searches to any place wanting to hire someone, even if it was work they felt was 'beneath' them. I thought my Dad was generous. My SIL said she would live on the streets first. My Dad's offer is still open. But, they are also prepared to take a hard line and tell them that they (bro/sil) can't afford to keep their kids. I realize this all sounds horribly sad, but they were at a university ball game recently over an hour away (which involved gas, not sure about tickets, but also eating from the concession stand - none of it is cheap). They went out to eat at Outback Steakhouse just a few days ago (and it's an hour to get there). They had a huge Christmas. If you look in their freezer, it's full of liquor bottles (they aren't alcoholics, they just enjoy drinking). Their mortgage payment (since we're in a low income area and they have made numerous 'deals' with the bank) is down to $250 a month. They could do this, they simply don't want to settle in and figure things out. We've all tried to hire them to do housework or yard work but that doesn't work either. They show up late (or not at all) and sometimes take up to a week to finish a 4 hour job (working just a bit one day and coming back other days). My Dad/step-mom are both retired and on a fixed income. My mother retires next year (step-dad is retired). They can't send money any longer. My brother simply must grow up and realize that we can't support him. Kids yes, him/sil, no. Thanks for the information about the land. The problem with them coming here is that I don't think they'll ever leave until they have trashed the place so bad it's condemned. Then they would probably sue us if they were hurt. And who would pay for electricity and water? We would have to do that as well. And they always show up now in time for meals, that wouldn't change at all. I know that adding a kid would cause a bit of stress to our family. But, the girls love both their cousins and I think we could make it work. My understanding is that they have two more weeks until they are evicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Yes we have and are thinking about doing it again. They don't appreciate it, it is something that is expected. We are hoping they come to appreciate it later and in the meantime at least the kids are able to learn how to drive, get their first job, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I know that adding a kid would cause a bit of stress to our family. But, the girls love both their cousins and I think we could make it work. nope, a Lot of Stress. a Whole Lot. it would be hard to overstate just how much stress adding one or two teens to a family can be...... even teens you know and love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudboots Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 nope, a Lot of Stress. a Whole Lot. it would be hard to overstate just how much stress adding one or two teens to a family can be...... even teens you know and love. :iagree: If you help, you might consider doing it for a defined, limited period of time (like a few months) with a plan in place for the where the kids will go next. If it's working out beautifully, you can always extend the time frame. Also consider that if you have the kids there, your brother and SIL may feel even more that they have a right to be there, too. Some pretty firm boundary-setting may be a good idea, right from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Fairy Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 No way. Absolutely no way would I do this. :( Based on the description of your brother, I just don't think it would end well, and the entire experience would likely be very traumatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 nope, a Lot of Stress. a Whole Lot. it would be hard to overstate just how much stress adding one or two teens to a family can be...... even teens you know and love.That is so true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Your dad's offer is more than fair. I think it would be best for everyone involved if you and your mom encouraged your brother/sil to either take dad up on his offer or make their own way. Be a unified front. If you (or your mom) feel led to help, help only if they follow guidelines set up as your unified front. If they come to squat on your land, or your moms....send dad over to give his offer one last time before police are called to remove them from your land. I don't think it would be smart to take the teenagers in at this point. idk. They are bringing with them the habits and training of their parents.;) Let your mom or dad take them in. You might cook for them, buy them some needed items, help her apply for colleges, tutor him in reading, mentor them, etc...but maintain the sanctuary of your home, for the sake of your 3 dc. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 No words of wisdom but :grouphug:. It is hard to watch people foul their own nest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 I would prefer that they go to my dad's house. I will try that first and see if I can help out financially or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Your dad's offer is more than fair. I think it would be best for everyone involved if you and your mom encouraged your brother/sil to either take dad up on his offer or make their own way. Be a unified front. If you (or your mom) feel led to help, help only if they follow guidelines set up as your unified front. If they come to squat on your land, or your moms....send dad over to give his offer one last time before police are called to remove them from your land. I don't think it would be smart to take the teenagers in at this point. idk. They are bringing with them the habits and training of their parents.;) Let your mom or dad take them in. You might cook for them, buy them some needed items, help her apply for colleges, tutor him in reading, mentor them, etc...but maintain the sanctuary of your home, for the sake of your 3 dc. :grouphug: :iagree::iagree::iagree: If what I bolded is not true, if someone else in the family takes in the teens, you can help them care for the teens in many ways, but then send the teens "home" to keep some kind of normalcy for your own kids. It is important for the teens to know that they have family willing to help them. It won't be long before the eldest can easily emancipate herself (due to her age) and choose to live with whomever she pleases. Wouldn't it be good if she felt loved enough by the extended family to maintain those ties? Edited April 23, 2012 by Valerie(TX) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Would you consider homeschooling the boy, or afterschooling him, to teach him to read? Dyslexia can be remediated or partially remediated at home. (Before we found out that one of mine was dyslexic, I had, through gentle persistence and lots of multi-sensory work with phonics, achieved what Scottish Rite tested as partial-remediation. And that was without using specialty curriculum designed for remediation.) You'd have a fifteen year old boy and a seven year old gal. Hmmm! I guess it would depend on the boy. Just a thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Your dad offered them a great deal. If they chose not to accept that, it does not fall on you to do more. In fact - they may be more unwilling to accept his offer if you do more. :grouphug: However, I feel your pain. They are your niece and nephew and are in this through no fault of their own. I would say that take both in or nothing, as the emotional trauma to the nephew could be pretty bad. Or if you take the niece, then have mom or dad there willing to take the nephew. Sadly, there is no "right" answer to this.... Thankfully, both teens are old enough to be rather self sufficient, and helpful. If they are better than their parents by half - they may more than make up for any cost by helping out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Would you consider homeschooling the boy, or afterschooling him, to teach him to read? Dyslexia can be remediated or partially remediated at home. (Before we found out that one of mine was dyslexic, I had, through gentle persistence and lots of multi-sensory work with phonics, achieved what Scottish Rite tested as partial-remediation. And that was without using specialty curriculum designed for remediation.) You'd have a fifteen year old boy and a seven year old gal. Hmmm! I guess it would depend on the boy. Just a thought... They have asked if I would homeschool him over the past few months. I've been hesitant on a number of levels. First, I'm bringing our middle daughter home to homeschool and I anticipate she will be a challenge (in a good way, not bad). I offered to tutor him on Saturdays for two hours a week but ONLY if they allowed the school system to test him for a learning/reading disability. For those familiar with the STAR testing in public schools, his range is 1.4 - 2.8. Last year the school was able to successfully put him in a remedial reading class which he seemed to like. This year, my SIL said she wasn't putting him in with a bunch of "R word" kids and refused all services. Until they accept that he has a learning disability of some type (and one that is probably correctable, my brother didn't read or write until third grade but he is a huge reader now and enjoys it - we all love to read), I'm worried they would blame me for his inability to read. It is quite likely that he won't finish high school although I think my brother/sil are the only ones who don't realize that. If someone else has custody of the kids, I would truly do all I could to help him (including paying for tutors with experience to teach him to read). Both kids are nice kids, but they are lazy. My niece loves school and I've seen her fight to remain a member of various organiations at school and refuse to socialize at family parties until she finished her school work. School is her strength, but she is left alone at home a great deal and is starting to have older 'boyfriends'. :( Nephew is nice and my kids absolutely adore him. He spends time with all of them, including my oldest either playing video games, riding bikes or tossing footballs with them. He's very gentle with them (which completely wins me over). But, he's lazy. I tried to hire him for work and it's like watching molasses go uphill. Yeah....bad habits.... *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 It is extremely frustrating and heartbreaking taking in relatives kids because you simply don't have as much control over their lives as you would if they were your kids... even when you have them half the time from the time they are young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJCMom Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I would try to encourage them to take up your dad's offer. If they refuse, I would offer to take both kids, but I wouldn't just take one child. If I simply could not take both, I wouldn't take either. :grouphug: It's such a hard situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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