sweetpea3829 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 My son is going to be finishing up HOP 1st grade and will likely breeze through HOP 2nd grade. So far, I've only done HOP phonics work with him, as well as AAS1. What's next? What will he need to comprise a comprehensive language arts program for next semester? Grammar, comprehension, creative writing, more phonics (?), etc. I will continue with AAS2 when he's ready (most likely) but I need some suggestions on language arts/reading programs from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I would do WWE 1 plus a grammar program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetpea3829 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 I would do WWE 1 plus a grammar program. What about reading? Is 2nd grade HOP the end of formal phonics instruction? Would reading instruction at that point primarily be based on comprehension, vocabulary and spelling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2boys030507 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 After HOP I have my boys read the Emergent Reader list from HOD. My guys are early readers so I don't start adding in grammar for awhile after. I do have them narrate and create notebook pages on some of the books we read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 What about reading? Is 2nd grade HOP the end of formal phonics instruction? Would reading instruction at that point primarily be based on comprehension, vocabulary and spelling? The narrations in WWE would cover reading comprehension. Spelling you said that you were planning on using AAS so that would be covered. Formal vocab study you don't need to worry about until your child is older. TWTM has it starting in the logic stage (I forget exactly which grade). AAS + WWE + a grammar program + plenty of free reading is all that you need for LA at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetpea3829 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Thanks Crim! I have some light vocab planned for him. I have MTH series coming in and will pick vocab from it. He's a "why?" kind of kid and will ask about words he doesn't know. So just to clarify...he doesn't need any additional phonics instruction after HOP2? I just picked up TWTM yesterday and will be reading it over. He's a young 5...probably too soon for Latin, yes? He's well ahead of grade level, but I would think he's still young for Latin. Any suggestions on a good grammar program? Preferably open and go at this point. And fwiw, I haven't been thrilled with HOP. Maybe it was my version, but I felt like there was no explanation for WHY we read words the way we do. Especially in the latter part of level 1 and all of level 2. Why do we read m-a-d-e with a long a? How do we know whether -ed says /ed/, /d/, or, /t/? I've had to go searching for that myself because my son wants more than to just memorize the specific words they give as examples. He wants to know how to apply the rule and when to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Michelle* Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Maybe it was my version, but I felt like there was no explanation for WHY we read words the way we do. Especially in the latter part of level 1 and all of level 2. Why do we read m-a-d-e with a long a? How do we know whether -ed says /ed/, /d/, or, /t/? I've had to go searching for that myself because my son wants more than to just memorize the specific words they give as examples. He wants to know how to apply the rule and when to do so. We've been using HOP also and this is one of my concerns. My oldest will be doing HOP1 in kindergarten next year, and I decided to add in OPGTR to provide the actual rules of phonics. Since there are so few HOP lessons, I think it will actually become our supplement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I've been mulling this over too. After HOP: K, DD completed ETC 1, but I'm not sure it's her thing. That's a lot of books to do the same thing over and over and over. I've been thinking about adding Plaid Phonics to our HOP, but I can't decide. It's cheap enough, I should probably just buy it and see. We've been using HOP also and this is one of my concerns. My oldest will be doing HOP1 in kindergarten next year, and I decided to add in OPGTR to provide the actual rules of phonics. Since there are so few HOP lessons, I think it will actually become our supplement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amayla Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I am thinking of trying the HOP's master reader. I'll be keeping my an eye on this thread to see what else is suggested! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 we use HOP k-2 (usually with another program to reinforce what they're learning). after level 2 we move onto HOP master reader deluxe. they need to be reading fairly well before they can use it, but usually after HOP 2 it's an easy transition. it really works great & focuses less on phonics and more on syllable breakdown. after we finish master reader we just use a spelling program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Quoting myself... Well, don't get Plaid Phonics. I bought it and will be returning it. I was expecting explanations of rules, but there aren't any. Looks like a big book of busywork to me. Doesn't seem as though it would benefit a child who has successfully completed HOP. I'm now looking into All About Spelling. I'm wondering how well it might integrate with HOP (instead of ETC, which we still don't love). Then, we could continue on with it after HOP 2. Anyone know or do this? I've been mulling this over too. After HOP: K, DD completed ETC 1, but I'm not sure it's her thing. That's a lot of books to do the same thing over and over and over. I've been thinking about adding Plaid Phonics to our HOP, but I can't decide. It's cheap enough, I should probably just buy it and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetpea3829 Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 We're using AAS along with HOP. They don't really integrate per se, but we're just plugging along with both programs independent of the other. I think, when we finish HOP2, we'll continue with AAS as our primary phonics program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I'm really considering it. I was pretty sure from the examples that they wouldn't really mesh. Just curious...how do you split the workload? We're using AAS along with HOP. They don't really integrate per se, but we're just plugging along with both programs independent of the other. I think, when we finish HOP2, we'll continue with AAS as our primary phonics program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetpea3829 Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 As of right now, we're using HOP pretty much daily for reading practice and AAS pretty much daily for spelling practice. The further I get in HOP, the less I like it and the more inclined I feel to just nix it and go straight to AAS. Sad part is...I'm not in love with AAS, either. I like it enough, but I'm not loving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freemanfamilyof6 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 We went on from HOP K-2 to the master reader set this year. I don't love it at all. It is ok, but not working for what I was wanting for my 5 year old. She is gifted (actually she will be 6 this month) and can read up to a 6th grade level with ease. The content of the HOP master reader set was still not appropriate for her developmentally. The chapter book that starts the set is about American History and Paul Revere, called Strange Museum. She just wasn't familiar enough with any of that yet to enjoy it. Even though her comprehension is at least at 3rd grade +, the stories weren't at her level. Plus the stories are all kinda creepy and wierd, and this is my only daughter (out of 4) who is very nervous and sensitive. She has nightmares after reading books like Pompeii (story about Mt Vesuvius erupting). She didn't like the creepy element to most of the Master Reader set on the blue level (3rd grade level). We did ETC with HOP this year for her Kindergarten year. She finished the HOP K-2 set by Christmas and ETC 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 also. ETC are fair and provide lots of self paced phonics and repetition. I doubt we will use either program next year. We also used Shurely English 1 for grammar this year. I liked it ok for grammar only. The writing component is really weak. My girls can classify a sentence forwards and backwards for whatever that is worth. Sorry I don't have many answers or solutions. I am working on finding a good fit for next year too. This is my 2nd daughter and she is gifted so finding a good fit isn't easy. From what I understand, once they are fluent readers you don't need phonics. I don't know how you know when that occurs, per say, but I do know my 2nd DD definitely doesn't need phonics any longer. As a side note, I am going to be using Apples and Pears for spelling next year for my oldest DD. She will be 2nd grade and is a mild struggling learner. I have decided on it over AAS bc of the recommendations on this board. I also will be doing Dancing Bears phonics with her. Again, this is my oldest DD age 7 who is a mild struggling learner. She does read age level, but it still isn't super fluid and she can't spell. I am considering also WWE for writing and/or PLL for LA/grammar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryTime Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I recently finished HOP with my first grader. He has made slow, but steady progress with his reading. We've been using AAS as well this year, which has been very helpful in cementing his phonics and providing more complete detailed explanations of phonics rules. My plan is to continue to use AAS to flesh out phonics rules for him. I also just ordered Reading Pathways to help with his fluency, stamina, and confidence in attacking longer words. Of course, we do lots of plain old reading practice with early readers everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
give_me_a_latte Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 My son flew through HOP PreK-2, and then we moved on to lots and lots of having him read out loud. We started AAS, but he just wasn't really ready for that. So I shelved it and plan to pick it up again in the Fall. Recently though, I'm noticing the holes left from HOP. I posted about it a few weeks ago actually. His reading ability is really quite high, but he stalls on "big words" because HOP didn't really teach phonics. As you probably know, it's a bunch of lessons on sounding out things with zero explanation. So. I bought OPGTTR and I'm going to to try to fill in those gaps. When my daughter is ready I plan to use OPGTTR as our main program, and the HOP readers...but that's it. I wasn't impressed with HOP at ALL! Yes it got my early reader up and running.....but it's far from a complete phonics program. Off my soapbox ;-) As for where to go.....I think the others have given you some great ideas. I chose AAS for spelling because it does a nice job of teaching those rules that they aren't getting in HOP. If you want vocab, we started WW3000 K level a few weeks ago and it's a BLAST! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmall Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I agree with all PP's who said Master Reader. Both my girls reading took off after Master Reader. They loved the chapter books. After going through the program my girls just couldn't stop reading anything they could get their hands on. AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockermom Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I am thinking of trying the HOP's master reader. I'll be keeping my an eye on this thread to see what else is suggested! :) My son is speeding through the 2nd grade HOP and he really, really wants to do Master Reader, but I've been given conflicting info from the HOP people (as well as users of Master Reader) as to whether or not the latest version will work on Windows 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetpea3829 Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 My son flew through HOP PreK-2, and then we moved on to lots and lots of having him read out loud. We started AAS, but he just wasn't really ready for that. So I shelved it and plan to pick it up again in the Fall. Recently though, I'm noticing the holes left from HOP. I posted about it a few weeks ago actually. His reading ability is really quite high, but he stalls on "big words" because HOP didn't really teach phonics. As you probably know, it's a bunch of lessons on sounding out things with zero explanation. So. I bought OPGTTR and I'm going to to try to fill in those gaps. When my daughter is ready I plan to use OPGTTR as our main program, and the HOP readers...but that's it. I wasn't impressed with HOP at ALL! Yes it got my early reader up and running.....but it's far from a complete phonics program. Off my soapbox ;-) As for where to go.....I think the others have given you some great ideas. I chose AAS for spelling because it does a nice job of teaching those rules that they aren't getting in HOP. If you want vocab, we started WW3000 K level a few weeks ago and it's a BLAST! Yeah, I totally agree on HOP. I've been sorely disappointed with it. I'm wondering if maybe we should look into ETC or Phonics Pathways or something. I'm not even sure what holes need to be filled. I do know that much of HOP 2 is just a total bust. I could probably get away with skipping further explicit phonics instruction with DS5...he's a natural reader and picks up on it on his own. But DD6 really needs the explicit instruction and practice. So I'm going to have to see what I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockermom Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Yeah, I totally agree on HOP. I've been sorely disappointed with it. I'm wondering if maybe we should look into ETC or Phonics Pathways or something. I'm not even sure what holes need to be filled. I do know that much of HOP 2 is just a total bust. I could probably get away with skipping further explicit phonics instruction with DS5...he's a natural reader and picks up on it on his own. But DD6 really needs the explicit instruction and practice. So I'm going to have to see what I can find. Personally, I wouldn't stop at HOP 2. I would choose one of the programs you've mentioned to continue. There's a still quite a bit of phonics to learn beyond the 2nd grade HOP level. (We use ETC and I have PP as a guide/supplement when needed. We also use AAS.) When ds finishes 2nd grade HOP, HE would like to do Master Reader. I would like to just continue through Phonics Pathways. I already have PP and MR is soooo expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 when we started HOP2, we also felt it is dry and when I looked through the HOP books for grade 2. I just didn't feel like it is up to 2nd grade. (We had old version). I looked on the HOP website and found the newer version seems have a lot more meat in it. So, starting HOP2, I use both old/new version workbook stories and story book. DD likes it a lot more though we went through the book a lot slower now. and I also have OPG so I explain the phonic to her as we go. To be honest, the phonic part really doesn't excited her much probably because she is so young, so I don't really address phonic unless it is a critical rule. Our plan after finish HOP is to start Master reader. I agree with pp that the books is a bit much for young kid but it also has 64 story cards and i though those are appropriate for DD to understand. we also plan to add AAS1 next school year and WWE1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
give_me_a_latte Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Yeah, I totally agree on HOP. I've been sorely disappointed with it. I'm wondering if maybe we should look into ETC or Phonics Pathways or something. I'm not even sure what holes need to be filled. I do know that much of HOP 2 is just a total bust. I could probably get away with skipping further explicit phonics instruction with DS5...he's a natural reader and picks up on it on his own. But DD6 really needs the explicit instruction and practice. So I'm going to have to see what I can find. It was the 2nd level that really got me too. So much to learn but NO instruction! My son is also a natural reader. He was always five steps ahead of me when we did HOP. But like I said, now I'm seeing those holes when he comes across new, big words. He doesn't have the ability to sound them out because the phonics rules just aren't there! I looked at several options for fixing this but ultimately decided on OPGTTR because it's fairly cheap, and is so thorough. I'm just flipping through it and finding things I think he needs a refresher on. I'm not dong the lessons word for word...but I'm using the book as a guideline for what he needs to know. Does that make sense? I also got some ETC books, but I'm not sure how helpful they're going to be. They have a lot of writing, and even the highest level book isn't going to be too challenging for him. But it would be good reinforcement, if I can get him interested in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SewingMom2many Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 My son finished HOP K-2 last year when he was 5. I started with Master Reader and it was just a little too much for him. He could read most of the words but some of the concepts were a little too hard. I bought OPGTR and started somewhere about halfway through the book. We've been taking it slow and doing 3 or 4 lessons a week. I agree that there were definitely some holes in HOP. He only has 20 lessons left in OPGTR and then we'll try Master Reader again now that he is 6.5 and see if it's a better fit. If not, I'm not going to worry about it since we've made it all the way through OPGTR. Either way, I plan to start WWE with him when we finish the last lesson in OPGTR. I know we could do it concurrently, but we've got too many other things going right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Reading is too important a skill to leave to chance! I believe that you should keep teaching phonics until your child can fluently read at a 12th grade level. If you work through quickly the program on my how to tutor page, you can get there quicker than you might think. Add in the spelling and syllable division rules and syllable division exercises, and read and spell a few words from each Blend Phonics unit, then do Webster's Syllables, then move to 2+ syllable words in Webster's 1908 Speller, which will take you to a 12th grade level. I'll be speaking about how to use Webster's Speller today at 2:00 PM central, it's free to listen live! http://homeschoolhowtoconference.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The thing that DD really likes about HOP are the stories. (She likes the DVD too.) They are well written and more interesting than those of many, if not most, phonics programs. The illustrations are high quality too. You would think that a program with phonics in the name would provide more explanation of phonics rules, but that's not really why we started with the it. We wanted DD to get off and running with reading in a "fun" way. (We originally started with 100 EZ Lessons, which was a total bust for us.) It has done just that for DD. She was almost 4.5 when we started. While she's always been bright, she isn't one of those kids who "taught herself" to read. She's still working at it, but I see notable progress every month or two. when we started HOP2, we also felt it is dry and when I looked through the HOP books for grade 2. I just didn't feel like it is up to 2nd grade. (We had old version). I looked on the HOP website and found the newer version seems have a lot more meat in it. So, starting HOP2, I use both old/new version workbook stories and story book. DD likes it a lot more though we went through the book a lot slower now. and I also have OPG so I explain the phonic to her as we go. To be honest, the phonic part really doesn't excited her much probably because she is so young, so I don't really address phonic unless it is a critical rule. Our plan after finish HOP is to start Master reader. I agree with pp that the books is a bit much for young kid but it also has 64 story cards and i though those are appropriate for DD to understand. we also plan to add AAS1 next school year and WWE1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverFamily Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 My Dd6 used HOP (using the current version available) starting at about age 4yo. She got most of the way through but I am not sure if we completed all of the Grade 2 level. She has done very well with reading. I agree with the other posters on being frustrated with the lack of phonics rules explanation in HOP. I became frustrated with that so that is why I believe we didn't complete level 2. We were also using Christian Liberty Press Readers as well so we ended up moving towards just using those at the end of our HOP journey. After that I bought the Grade 1 Abeka readers because I wanted to make sure I covered all of our bases with reading (the last one we completed was the bridge book so we didn't finish those either). I recently discovered SL readers and I will never go back. I really like the idea of using "real" books as soon as possible, I wish I would have discovered this concept earlier on. It has made a big difference for my Dd. I can see that she is enjoying reading a lot more than she did before. The line between reading for school and reading for fun is starting to disappear in her mind, which makes me very happy. We will be using SL readers for reading from here on out, at least until she is reading to learn;). Like a lot of other posters mentioned we are using AAS this year for spelling/phonics. Both my Dd and I are loving AAS. I love how clearly the phonics rules are explained. We will also stick with AAS all the way through (and might add in PR as well, just because my Dd loves the Rule Tunes and I really like the markings, but it is definitely not a needed addition to AAS). I am completely satisfied with AAS for my Dd's phonics instruction. We are also planning on using FLL and WWE next year for grammar instruction and writing instruction. I will also have my Dd do some notebooking pages for additional writing and narration practice. I forgot about Master Reader (which we got in a package deal with the other HOP levels), I may and try and use that with my Dd6 come this summer. After being introduced to the idea of dividing syllables in AAS 2 she will probably understand the concepts taught in Master Reader just fine, we will see. For my next go around with my Dd4 I will also be using HOP. I originally picked HOP because I liked how simple each lesson is, introducing only one concept at a time. I also really like the readers that go with HOP. I love the idea mentioned by other posters of using OPGTR alongside HOP to make up for the lack of phonics instruction. I also plan to use the CLA readers again for review purposes alongside HOP. When my Dd4 finishes HOP I plan to go straight to SL readers and maybe use some of the beginning Abeka 1st grade readers (probably through the bridge book) as review along with the SL readers. I like how it has worked out with having my Dd read something very easy for review as well as something more on her grade level or above to push her a bit. So I think I will continue to do that with my Dd6 and my upcoming reader Dd4. Sorry for my long explanation. Hope it made sense and hope it is helpful to someone.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SewingMom2many Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Reading is too important a skill to leave to chance! I believe that you should keep teaching phonics until your child can fluently read at a 12th grade level. If you work through quickly the program on my how to tutor page, you can get there quicker than you might think. Add in the spelling and syllable division rules and syllable division exercises, and read and spell a few words from each Blend Phonics unit, then do Webster's Syllables, then move to 2+ syllable words in Webster's 1908 Speller, which will take you to a 12th grade level. I'll be speaking about how to use Webster's Speller today at 2:00 PM central, it's free to listen live! http://homeschoolhowtoconference.com/ Thanks for the info! I'm in the seminar room anxious to listen :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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