Civil air patrol - I need someone to talk me down

[Murphy101]

Either our squad just sucks or I have no idea why in blue blazes anyone would ever spend the nearly $1000 that we have spent for NOTHING this past school year.

 

We have been cheerleading and encouraging and involved and it's been nothing but one disappointment and frustration after another.

 

I'm ready to go all crazy mama bear on some staff.

[AFwife Claire]

Hmmmm . . . what did you spend the $1000 on?! I think you may have a bad squadron. Ours is very well-run and organized. My son wants to go to the Air Force Academy, and I think CAP is preparing him very well for that. We haven't spent much money at all beyond the yearly dues (well, ds will go to encampment this summer, but that is only $175 I think). What exactly is so frustrating? I do think it is very possible to have a poorly run squadron--there is always the possibility of mediocrity in any group organization! So sorry you are so disappointed!

[BMW]

A few of my boys have been in CAP and it's been a terrific experience... The cost is crazy, but, their squadron has had great activities and experiences and it's helped the boys have an outlet outside of school and tennis... Do you have an alternative squadron in driving distance to check out? If you've been really unhappy, you should be comparing... I wouldn't want to stay involved if I were dissatisfied - too much money and time! (FTR, I don't pay anything, my boys who live with their dad are the ones who are involved and their dad pays)

[Kathleen in VA]

Both of my older boys went through the program and loved it. I don't ever remember spending $1000 in one year on it. What did that buy exactly? I'm sorry you are disappointed. Maybe if you were more specific about what's wrong we CAP moms could be of more help.

[Laura in CA]

Agreeing with the others ... besides the uniform (one-time cost) and small dues, and the reasonable encampment costs, I don't remember anything "big ticket" ... certainly nowhere near $1000. And my son loves CAP :001_smile:. Also agreeing that more details would help us figure it out ... :lurk5:

 

Best wishes!

[Laura Corin]

I'm sorry, I read the title and imagined you up there in a plane and needing to be talked through landing.

 

Laura

[kalanamak]

I'm sorry, I read the title and imagined you up there in a plane and needing to be talked through landing.

 

Laura

 

:lol: Great minds think alike.

[Murphy101]

For 2 boys this year we have paid for:

Dues, BDUs, blues, shoes, (bought used when could but most of it was new due to limited used options), and 72 hour packs.

 

Their application paperwork was lost TWICE. They have not been able to attend a single encampment or conference or training session or O flight bc:

Staff lost or failed to require paperwork

Staff was not attending and thus cadets could not attend

Staff was suspended or otherwise unable to meet requirements

Staff failed to keep paperwork necessary for rank ups and then denied rank ups. but not for everyone who didn't have paperwork.

Staff has failed to ever give out the ground team books? They keep promising to bring the "green books" to the next mtg. But they never have.

They have had 1 field trip. That's it.

My boys have missed exactly one of the weekly meetings.

 

To say we are beyond frustrated is a huge understatement.

[Kathleen in VA]

For 2 boys this year we have paid for:

Dues, BDUs, blues, shoes, (bought used when could but most of it was new due to limited used options), and 72 hour packs.

 

Their application paperwork was lost TWICE. They have not been able to attend a single encampment or conference or training session or O flight bc:

Staff lost or failed to require paperwork

Staff was not attending and thus cadets could not attend

Staff was suspended or otherwise unable to meet requirements

Staff failed to keep paperwork necessary for rank ups and then denied rank ups. but not for everyone who didn't have paperwork.

Staff has failed to ever give out the ground team books? They keep promising to bring the "green books" to the next mtg. But they never have.

They have had 1 field trip. That's it.

My boys have missed exactly one of the weekly meetings.

 

To say we are beyond frustrated is a huge understatement.

 

Absolutely unacceptable. You need to contact your state's wing headquarters or national headquarters in Alabama (Maxwell AFB). Is there another squadron near (or somewhat near) you? We had our pick of two because we are smack dab between them - 30 miles south or 30 miles west. Have you thought of becoming a senior member yourself and then taking over the position of DCC? One mom in our squadron did this and most of the DCCs in the squadron over the years were parents of a cadet. It's a lot of work, but CAP has so much to offer it might be worth it just so your boys can get the most out of it.

 

That said, I would most definitely be making some phone calls.

[Army Chaplain]

Martha,

 

Sounds like your CAP leadership needs help. I suspect the leaders are just volunteers who don't have the time or resources to perform like salaried employees. I was never in Civil Air Patrol in high school, but I did Sea Cadets and remember that parents ran the program for their kids. More recently I served 6 years in the Air Force Reserves as an officer, and here's what I can recommend: call your nearest base's Wing Commander, and see if he/she can connect you with an enthusiastic officer (at least an O-3) to help your CAP squadron with coordinating better training activities for the kids. Any mature officer would be thrilled to help the kids (at the very least for a good annual performance report). When I was stationed at McConnell AFB in Kansas, I do remember Group Commanders (O-5s) who got involved with school programs to introduce kids to the Air Force. A Group Commander has enough authority to do whatever he wants around the Wing to make things happen for the kids. You could also call the base's Public Affairs office to schedule incentive flights for your kids to experience actual airpower by riding in a plane. In my reserve unit, we took church pastors and local employers for rides on refueling missions in the KC-135 tanker. CAP cadets would love doing something like this.

 

God bless.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Army Chaplain

[Murphy101]

I simply cannot afford to become a member. I don't have the time even if I did have a sitter for the other kids. And after all this, there is no way I can justify another financial hit me to join.

 

Yes, I completely understand they are volunteers with ft jobs. While I do respect that aspect, it still feels like being scammed when the squadron is nothing like proclaimed. My dh goes to every meeting with the boys that he can, but his schedule is not predictable and he travels frequently.

 

I don't know what's going on and honestly I don't have time or finances to fix it. This squadron is supposed to have 17 cadets iirc. It's been months since more than 5-7 have shown up. If I take my boys to another squadron, I'm looking at going from a 10 minute drive around the corner to nearly 45 during rush hour traffic. I have never done CAP before so I have zero idea who to contact. I don't even know how to transfer them to another squad.

 

And I don't know what I would say. I hate complaining without being part of the solution. But I don't have any more time or money to give them. :(

[In The Great White North]

For 2 boys this year we have paid for:

Dues, BDUs, blues, shoes, (bought used when could but most of it was new due to limited used options), and 72 hour packs.

 

Their application paperwork was lost TWICE. They have not been able to attend a single encampment or conference or training session or O flight bc:

Staff lost or failed to require paperwork

Staff was not attending and thus cadets could not attend

Staff was suspended or otherwise unable to meet requirements

Staff failed to keep paperwork necessary for rank ups and then denied rank ups. but not for everyone who didn't have paperwork.

Staff has failed to ever give out the ground team books? They keep promising to bring the "green books" to the next mtg. But they never have.

They have had 1 field trip. That's it.

My boys have missed exactly one of the weekly meetings.

 

To say we are beyond frustrated is a huge understatement.

 

We have not spend anywhere near that amount for all the CAP stuff together (minus Flight Academy) for two kids (Mitchell) and me.

 

Have they been on eservices? They should have a CAP ID number and should have gotten an email with a password. Once they sign in, they can check their status for many things, including rank.

 

Here is a link to the "green book.'

http://www.nesa.cap.gov/curriculum_material/GSAR/G&UDFTG.pdf

 

You can print it out, booklet form, double sided and it works just fine. Or you can buy it at Vanguard. Our unit doesn't give them out either.

 

Buy used. Always buy used. Check the second-hand stores. Check ebay for used equipment too.

 

Here's the Cadet Superposter, that shows what is required for each rank:

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/Cadet_Super_Chart_94732A5667D92_C5995ABD1FAC3.pdf

 

Cadets need to be proactive. They need to make sure they:

a) are in eServices (because they are not in CAP if they are not in eServices,) b) they have taken the online test for their next rank,

c) they ask (nag) the cadet chain of command and the adults when they need to do a drill test,

d) they pass the PT test.

 

Cadets can sign up for encampments at other wings. DD went to a neighboring wings encampment. Their squadron staff does not need to attend. Sign ups for our wing has not happened yet but will be online.

 

I second Kathleen in VA's recommendation - become a senior member. They are obviously overwhelmed and need help. And, of course, if you want something done right, you have to do it ourself.

[Murphy101]

We have not spend anywhere near that amount for all the CAP stuff together (minus Flight Academy) for two kids (Mitchell) and me.

 

I don't see how that can actually be the case. One, we were not able to find very much at all used! Either you can find whatever in the size you need or you can't. We have bought every item that we could used if it was cheaper. it also doesn't help to not be told you need a 24 or 72 hour pack until the Monday before you need it for a particular event. It doesn't leave much time to scavenger hunt for used materials. It also doesn't endear staff when they don't bother to inform the event was canceled 3 days prior to the event until they are called the day of the event. Which means I didn't actually need to go crazy trying redo the budget and drive all over the county for pack materials after all.:glare:

 

Have they been on eservices? They should have a CAP ID number and should have gotten an email with a password. Once they sign in, they can check their status for many things, including rank.

 

Yes and yes and their status doesn't change by much when TPTB never update anything. Things like getting the kids all excited about their review board for rank ups and then informing them at the review board that all their PT paperwork for the past 6 months has gone missing and no one ever got around to putting the info into eservices. Despite their promises at the previous meeting that they were going to make sure all the kids paperwork was entered and good to go by review day.:glare:

 

Here is a link to the "green book.'

http://www.nesa.cap.gov/curriculum_material/GSAR/G&UDFTG.pdf

 

You can print it out, booklet form, double sided and it works just fine. Or you can buy it at Vanguard. Our unit doesn't give them out either.

 

Thank you. Found and printed!:)

 

Here's the Cadet Superposter, that shows what is required for each rank:

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/Cadet_Super_Chart_94732A5667D92_C5995ABD1FAC3.pdf

 

They know what they need to do and with one exception (one of them somehow skipped his oath memorization) they have dutifully done each thing asked.

 

Cadets need to be proactive. They need to make sure they:

a) are in eServices (because they are not in CAP if they are not in eServices,) b) they have taken the online test for their next rank,

c) they ask (nag) the cadet chain of command and the adults when they need to do a drill test,

d) they pass the PT test.

 

Check to all of the above.

 

Cadets can sign up for encampments at other wings. DD went to a neighboring wings encampment. Their squadron staff does not need to attend. Sign ups for our wing has not happened yet but will be online.

 

Our wing conference is almost here and I was told I could not drive our own kids to it and that they have to have a señor member of their squadron to go. I asked. I asked at least 3 times because it didn't seem right to me that a volunteer organization wouldn't need to have parents drive their own kids some, if not most, of the time to various events.

 

I second Kathleen in VA's recommendation - become a senior member. They are obviously overwhelmed and need help. And, of course, if you want something done right, you have to do it ourself.

 

Sadly I know that's the truth of the problem right there. We can't do this ourselves. If we had known this going in, we never would have signed them up because we knew we can't do that. They have asked dh because he is the most involved of the parents as far as showing up to every meeting he can, but he can't commit on any level whatsoever other than if he happens to be in town and off work in time, he will show up. That is the most he can do. I have 8 other children and they can't stay for these 3.5 hour meetings on a school night.

 

I'm just terribly frustrated. Obviously. We decided to bite the bullet and invest in this because we heard and read such wonderful things about it and because these two boys are so interested in many of things cap is supposed to help them achieve. (one is pretty serious about being a pilot, the other about military science) But so far, it has been all talk. :(

 

And we truly do understand that these volunteers are volunteers and we don't know what all mess they are dealing with that might be a very understandable situation in their life right now.

 

But understanding that doesn't help my boys very much or help us feel we didn't just throw money down a latrine.

 

So that puts me back at feeling very frustrated.:)

[AK_Mom4]

Sorry... it sounds like no-good, aweful, no-fun!

 

One idea - could you offer to help with paperwork and maybe entering the stuff online? I know nothing about CAP, but I do know that our most beloved volunteers at the local Little League office have been those moms and dad who could spend a few hours a month on data entry from home and organizing paperwork. It's something your older kids could help with, too. Just an idea - sounds like they really need some paperwork help!

[In The Great White North]

Our wing conference is almost here and I was told I could not drive our own kids to it and that they have to have a señor member of their squadron to go. I asked. I asked at least 3 times because it didn't seem right to me that a volunteer organization wouldn't need to have parents drive their own kids some, if not most, of the time to various events.

 

Wing "conference" and wing "encampment" don't sound like the same thing. When dd went to encampment at another wing, I drove her (before I joined.) Technically, they have a special membership category for parents who occasionally help (ie. drive) but don't want to join, so the insurance people are happy.

 

The kids had done scouts, so I had been scrounging camping gear for a while and they fit in my old BDUs. They were issued blues. Shoes/boots for ds (size 13) were what I had to find. We bought ds shoes because he could wear them as dress shoes and found two pairs of boots at a second hand store (one still had tags on them.) We did have to buy (new) the nametags and patches. Our squadron also has piles of old uniforms they hand out to whomever they fit.

 

AK_Mom4's idea is a good one. If you could do some data entry for them, at least that excuse would be gone. They should not be doing any of this on paper anymore - it's all online.

[Murphy101]

Because I try not to only give the bad, I thought I would update to let you know I'm soooo happy!

 

CAP is going much better since I posted! :D

 

They are ranking up, going on encampments, and have had an O flight since I posted. Which is quite the industrious improvement in a fairly short amount of time!

 

Morale is up by bunches here and we will certainly be sticking to our squad if this continues.

 

Just wanted to post a positive update!

[Reflections]

:001_smile:

[Kathleen in VA]

Because I try not to only give the bad, I thought I would update to let you know I'm soooo happy!

 

CAP is going much better since I posted! :D

 

They are ranking up, going on encampments, and have had an O flight since I posted. Which is quite the industrious improvement in a fairly short amount of time!

 

Morale is up by bunches here and we will certainly be sticking to our squad if this continues.

 

Just wanted to post a positive update!

 

Great news! Thanks for the update!

[Quiver0f10]

We have been involved in CAP for years and other than buying stuff for encampment or various trips, we haven't spent any money. Your membership includes a set of blues. Each one of my kids have gotten their BDUs given to them too and that was in both Maine and AR. I suggest calling or writing to the CAP headquarters.