hsmamainva Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Seriously? You don't like the Arrogant Worms? No sense of humour at all. :svengo: I love the Arrogant Worms! My favorite Arrogant Worms song! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I love the Arrogant Worms! My favorite Arrogant Worms song! "Alright everyone!" :lol: They should be called the Arrogant Earworms because now that song is going to be stuck in my head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Seriously? You don't like the Arrogant Worms? No sense of humour at all. :svengo: Oh, I wouldn't say that about them. Surely they have some. ;) Anyway, I think you'll find it was Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie who wrote that song. Here's a War of 1812 song for those who prefer sincerity and attention to historical detail over cheap shots: (Stan Rogers :001_wub:- Lord, give us another like him...) John Macdonell was actually Canadian, having lived there since childhood. Brock had been stationed in Canada for several years, didn't have much fondness for the place, and apparently was applying for a transfer before the war broke out and he got stuck there. He was a fine man and a strong leader by all accounts, and I kind of wish I'd never found out that he felt that way about the land he was defending, but it is what it is. His personal letters: The Life and Correspondence of Major-General Sir Isaac Brock, K.B. (Tupper) This one is more of an exciting read :) : The Story of Isaac Brock, Hero Defender and Saviour of Upper Canada (Nursey) So unless your point is that the American choice in York to burn both private and public property was somehow less wanton and destructive, I don't think the link helps your anti-British stance any.Saying "anti-British" is reading a lot into my comments. It's more that I wouldn't have expected such a thing from them, and neither did a lot of people in Europe. (Everyone knew that the Americans had some wild yahoos in their midst, so no big surprise there. :tongue_smilie:) They didn't attack the U.S.; the U.S. attacked British North America.In the context of the battles I was referring to, the British certainly did attack. :confused: Their troops sailed directly to the US with that purpose in mind. Burning of Washington But I just realized something. We're 6 pages in, and nobody has asked the most important question: Who made better desserts, Laura Secord or Dolly Madison? Edited February 5, 2012 by Eleanor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Canadian. Learned that Canada won. Regarding pop songs, I'm pretty sure that The Battle of New Orleans (Johnny Horton version) was very successful as a pop song, and was not intended to be a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I think the problem comes in that there are more than one facet of this war. With regards to Canada, the US tried to invade thinking they were going to take the territory from Britain and thinking the people there wanted that. They were wrong on the latter (many there had left the US when we won the Revolution as they were British sympathizers) and unsuccessful with the former (due to underestimating the will of the people there). In that aspect, "Canada" won. But the "war" was so much more than that. The Brits invaded planning on taking the colonies back and lost. Hence a "US" win. The treaty ending it all said they'd just stop fighting and return all borders to how they were before the fighting started. Hence a "draw" in the overall sense - which is what I still believe, but one should also teach the different aspects of the war and who won what. In general, it was a very senseless war, with the Battle of New Orleans being fought (and many dying) after the war was over. The only "good" thing (IMO) is that the "Revolution" was finally over and borders established with the US as a respected country instead of Britain thinking "they'd get around to us" or us thinking "we'd take more from them." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmama2 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 And I've always thought it was the Russians ;). Me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmama2 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Oh & I also have Tchaikovsky stuck in my head thanks to this thread title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 There's a new book out called American Nations (I can't remember the author right now) which deals with the various nations as opposed to states in North America from its "discovery". I'm just past the part dealing with the Revolutionary War. What I find fascinating is the hypothesis that there were 7 or 8 distinct nations in the colonial era (e.g. New Netherland, Yankee (NOT Civil War Yankee), Tidewater, Deep South, Midland, Greater Appalachia, etc) who could barely cooperate to fight the British. [Please note that these nations (NOT states) encompass all of North America, not just the US.] Indeed many factions in each of the nations (especially Greater Appalachia) fought for whichever side they thought would be most beneficial to them. And there were several invasions of differing nations which did not involve any British troops at all. So, I don't think that it is simply a matter of "Americans" invading "Canada". There were many in the Canadian portions of a given nation who felt a kinship with the people living in the American portion of that same nation. I also think that the Revolutionary War and War of 1812 are prime examples of the differing perceptions of historical events. Eleanor made some great points. The Americans (at least most of them) didn't think they were fighting "Canadians". They were fighting the British, i.e. troops from the British Isles. And, as an historical note, one of the few buildings the British did not burn in Washington was Marine Headquarters because the Royal Marines didn't want to burn a fellow Marine building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Oh & I also have Tchaikovsky stuck in my head thanks to this thread title. And now thanks to that tune, I have the scenes of Big Ben and Parliament blowing up in my head (V for Vendetta). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 "Alright everyone!" :lol: They should be called the Arrogant Earworms because now that song is going to be stuck in my head! Here one will take that one out of your head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I don't think anyone has given any links from a mainstream British perspective yet, so here goes... h2g2 - The War of 1812 (a BBC-run wiki sort of thing) The War of 1812 was really just a little side battle in the Napoleonic Wars between France and Britain.Aww, how cute! ;) From BBC News itself, Timeline - Canada and United States of America Timeline: 1812-14 - War of 1812 between the US and Britain, largely over the effects on the US of British blockades of French ports. Action includes naval battles in the Great Lakes and a US attack on York (present-day Toronto). But the US fails to realise its plans to invade Canada. 1812-15 - War of 1812 between the US and Britain, partly over the effects of British restrictions on US trade during the Napoleonic Wars.From an independent educational site, The Anglo-American War of 1812: The causes of the war were twofold: The Blockade War (...) Impressment of sailors These grievances led, after some years, to war. The war was fought on a small scale and on the whole Britain had the worst of it because her attention was concentrated mainly on the great struggle on the Continent. In general, then, the British and the Americans seem to agree on who was fighting whom, and on the major reasons, though the British are understandably more cagey about declaring a victor. BTW, regarding General Robert Ross, this site has more than anyone would ever need to know. It's written from the Irish angle (because why should they be left out? :lol:). http://www.themanwhocapturedwashington.com/ And here are some interesting primary sources, including a letter from Mrs. Madison. http://www.ourwhitehouse.org/warof1812.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I don't think anyone has given any links from a mainstream British perspective yet, so here goes... h2g2 - The War of 1812 (a BBC-run wiki sort of thing) Aww, how cute! ;) From BBC News itself, Timeline - Canada and United States of America Timeline: From an independent educational site, The Anglo-American War of 1812: In general, then, the British and the Americans seem to agree on who was fighting whom, and on the major reasons, though the British are understandably more cagey about declaring a victor. BTW, regarding General Robert Ross, this site has more than anyone would ever need to know. It's written from the Irish angle (because why should they be left out? :lol:). http://www.themanwhocapturedwashington.com/ And here are some interesting primary sources, including a letter from Mrs. Madison. http://www.ourwhitehouse.org/warof1812.html That may be so. I still think we cried like babies. Wah, wah, wah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Just came across a recent book about the war in the Chesapeake. The site has an excerpt about the sacking of Havre de Grace, Maryland. The whole book looks to be a very worthwhile read for those who are interested in what happened during this era. I foresee much use of our Playmobil redcoats in the months to come. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Here one will take that one out of your head :lol: :lol: "our mountains are pointy. Our praries are not." LOL Ay, I can attest that Canadians like to visit other countries. My city is full of Quebec Canadians right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverland Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I know this is an old thread, but I came across an article in this morning's Wall Street Journal about differing perceptions of who won the war of 1812. I immediately thought of this old thread. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303410404577468423362089922.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I know this is an old thread, but I came across an article in this morning's Wall Street Journal about differing perceptions of who won the war of 1812. I immediately thought of this old thread. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303410404577468423362089922.html?mod=googlenews_wsj The Diane Reahm shows is also doing an hour long piece on the war: http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-06-18/legacy-war-1812 Towards the end of the show she asks the experts who won. Also I figured everyone should watch this: :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyBC Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 That was a great article - well balanced. I learned so much from this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Yep. That's what I was taught as well. I was told Dolly Madison saved the Constitution (or was it the DOI?) by rolling it up and taking it with her as she escaped, disguised as a servant. I believe I actually gasped while reading the OP. I'm continually shocked at what I was "taught" as a student. She saved the portrait of George Washington. It was screwed to the wall and she had the frame broken so she could roll it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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