Osmosis Mom Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 We found a dojo with a sensei that we had gotten recommended some years ago when they had a dojo somewhere. Now they run it out of their home and while tight space, then it was lovely and clean. Except that in the waiting area that parents sit in and students pass through, sensei and his wife kept their collection of hard liquor. We don't drink and I don't really want my kids associating a beloved sensei with alcohol since it goes against our principles. So, would it be out of line to ask they store their alcohol out of sight of their students? Asked in a polite, respectful manner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm surprised that they wouldn't have already done that, honestly. I'd go ahead and ask. Couldn't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Depends on if he's a nice guy or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappyhappymama Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I think that's a very reasonable request. All they can say is no, and then you'd know it's probably not the best fit for your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I think it would be out of line. While it's their business, it's also their home. I can see telling him you're thinking of leaving the dojo because of the alcohol, but I think asking him to put it away is unreasonable. He can choose to decorate it as he wishes. You can choose whether or not to attend. If he loses enough customers due to his decorating choices, he may decide to put it away on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm not Muslim, so please do not be offended by my reply. My understanding is that in Islam, non-Muslims are allowed to practice their religion without imposition so long as they are no compelling a Muslim to go against shariah, and if Sensei is not Muslim and his religion does not forbid alcohol, it's his business if he drinks. If your Sensei isn't compelling you to trade or consume alcohol, you're not in danger of sinning, nor are your children. “To us shall be accounted our deeds, and to you, your deeds. Let there be no contention between us and you: God will bring us all together - for with Him is all journey’s end" [Quran, 42:15] That said, I do see the potential risk of having hard liquor out where minors are sitting and/or passing through, sometimes possibly unaccompanied by an adult. So I see it more as a risk that a child could open and consume some alcohol - whether they know what it is or not - which could present a very real liability for the Sensei since it is within his home and homeowners (and business owners) are liable if a minor is given or consumes alcohol in their home - they should take measures to safeguard that minors do not have access to the alcohol. He could purchase a cabinet with a lock and keep it locked and that would work. Whether he chose to, if you talk to him about it, does remain his choice - then your choice is to continue or find a new Sensei or dojo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Well, I haven't heard back so I am assuming we are moving on. It is a tough time right now for businesses and I know he was eager for ours. He had wine glasses hanging for decoration; I did not ask him to remove those. Only to take out of sight the 20+ bottles of hard liquor he had standing. I am assuming it is on principle if he does not reply. Which is fine. I was already adjusting a lot of expectations since fx. it was not clear it was in a home, nor was there even a sign outside, space there is much tighter than anything I would have expected, but I would have gone along with that. Anyways. On the look again. Nadia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskool Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I wouldn't. That is their personal space. Also, if you are concerned about the kids associating the sensei with alcohol, then essentially you are creating him to be somebody that he is not. It would be more honest to not hide things from them and choose to find a sensei that falls more inline with your family values. We don't drink alcohol either, but my kids know that this is our choice and other people make their choices. There is no way I would ever ask somebody to change the way they live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Well, I haven't heard back so I am assuming we are moving on. It is a tough time right now for businesses and I know he was eager for ours. He had wine glasses hanging for decoration; I did not ask him to remove those. Only to take out of sight the 20+ bottles of hard liquor he had standing. I am assuming it is on principle if he does not reply. Which is fine. I was already adjusting a lot of expectations since fx. it was not clear it was in a home, nor was there even a sign outside, space there is much tighter than anything I would have expected, but I would have gone along with that. Anyways. On the look again. Nadia Sorry he didn't reply. You need space to practice martial arts anyway. Hopefully you find something better quickly. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellyGirl Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I study at a really small dojo that is attached to my sensi's home, and I love the family like atmosphere that it creates! If a prospective student came in and told my sensi "You need to move your alcohol" she would say, "No, you need to find a new dojo." But if a perspective parent said, "I love your dojo. My only reservation is the way your alcohol is displayed..." my sensi would probably consider moving it. On the flip side of that, as a mom who doesn't drink, we've taught our kids that some people do drink in moderation and it's okay for them (we can't judge their decisions). This could be a good time to start having those kind of discussions with your kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I would feel the same as you, OP, that I would feel uncomfortable with it. And, what if the children got into them and started drinking the alcohol? It's a safety issue as well as a moral/religious one, so I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask. Hope it works out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Let's not talk religion. I was not talking about religion because they were earth-something (forgot the term, but it was obvious from their decorations, but this was not my point). I think when you teach youth that it is important to send clear, strong messages. And having a collection of bottles of liquor is not going to help that message. Many people are averse to drinking, this is not a question of religion nor did I make it into that. You only brought that up because of my avatar. He was in shock when he saw me, but recovered after I put him at ease with conversing about karate etc. Thanks for your input, though. It boils down to the fact that I would not have gone to his place had I known it was out of his home. It being out of his home was adjusted to by me and the kids before we entered, assuming it was a decent place which it was except tight and the bottles. I was not asking him to remove his glass collection nor his display of his nature-worship since I think that is the right of it being his home. Of course I will go somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Oh, my kids know that you can drink and take drugs in moderation. Definitely. Otherwise I'd be teaching them a scam. I loved the atmosphere there actually and the parents waiting were very nice which also says a lot about the place. Oh, well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I'd be uncomfortable attending a dojo in someone's home. (Honestly.) A huge collection of liquor bottles would also feel odd to me (and we are casual drinkers). Edited February 3, 2012 by zaichiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskool Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I think when you teach youth that it is important to send clear, strong messages. And having a collection of bottles of liquor is not going to help that message. But that is your message and not his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Nadia, I agree that it's important to send strong, clear messages. If your message is that alcohol is not acceptable, then you have to admit that it is confusing to the kids if the dojo they regularly attend displays alcohol. In fact, even though we *do* drink in moderation around here, *I* wouldn't want to attend a dojo where the alcohol was displayed in those quantities b/c I think it sends the wrong message. Also, to be professional, one shouldn't have the parents/kids waiting in an area that is so clearly *home* and not *business.* We've been in homes where lessons are taught. The areas used *for* business are always styled in a way that respects the message they are trying to send the kids. *Always.* And those teachers have never casually allowed the kids/families into the more intimate/personally-decorated spaces of their homes. I would wonder if this sensei is used to working out of his home. He may still be adjusting. Maybe he hasn't drawn his lines yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Even if it is his home, he is running a business for which youth attend. I don't think it is legal to have alcohol where someone under 21 can access it in a place of business. Is it just on a high shelf, is the room always monitored? We drink alcohol in moderation at home, but a dojo is a place of athletic training, it would bother me. My son's dojo is a place where he is taught to respect his body and work hard for his goals. His Master is a strong role model for his students, both at the school and when you see him out and about. I would let them know, nicely, that I was not comfortable with it (which it sounds like you have done), I would give them 24 hours to respond. If I didn't hear from them I would move on as it obviously was not the place for us. Good luck finding a new dojo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappyhappymama Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I think when you teach youth that it is important to send clear, strong messages. And having a collection of bottles of liquor is not going to help that message. Many people are averse to drinking, this is not a question of religion nor did I make it into that. I agree. I think there are many of us here with varying religious backgrounds who would be uncomfortable in that situation. Hope things work out for you and you find another option soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Alcohol at a place of business, unless licenced, should not be visible, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 But... but... According to the numbers on my end, there was only 15 minutes between the time you posted your question and the second post where you gave up on him responding to your request. :confused: If you emailed or left a voice mail, he may need more time to get back to you. Does my control panel need looking at or are you in a rush to get this settled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 I had already him my request. I was just getting feed back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frugalmama Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Even if it is his home, he is running a business for which youth attend. I don't think it is legal to have alcohol where someone under 21 can access it in a place of business. Is it just on a high shelf, is the room always monitored? We drink alcohol in moderation at home, but a dojo is a place of athletic training, it would bother me. My son's dojo is a place where he is taught to respect his body and work hard for his goals. His Master is a strong role model for his students, both at the school and when you see him out and about. I would let them know, nicely, that I was not comfortable with it (which it sounds like you have done), I would give them 24 hours to respond. If I didn't hear from them I would move on as it obviously was not the place for us. Good luck finding a new dojo. :iagree: Plus especially with it out of his home I am more cautious than a free standing facility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Nadia, I agree that it's important to send strong, clear messages. If your message is that alcohol is not acceptable, then you have to admit that it is confusing to the kids if the dojo they regularly attend displays alcohol. In fact, even though we *do* drink in moderation around here, *I* wouldn't want to attend a dojo where the alcohol was displayed in those quantities b/c I think it sends the wrong message. Also, to be professional, one shouldn't have the parents/kids waiting in an area that is so clearly *home* and not *business.* We've been in homes where lessons are taught. The areas used *for* business are always styled in a way that respects the message they are trying to send the kids. *Always.* And those teachers have never casually allowed the kids/families into the more intimate/personally-decorated spaces of their homes. I would wonder if this sensei is used to working out of his home. He may still be adjusting. Maybe he hasn't drawn his lines yet? Am I the only one who thinks the only message it sends is that he has dinner parties with people that like different drinks? I mean, you can't buy liquor in single serving bottles for the most part, and if you have parties you need various kinds to make various drinks. Lots of bottles of different kinds wouldn't weird me out....10 bottles of the same kind would though, as I'd wonder why he was going through it that fast. But if it is different kinds he probably isn't drinking it himself, as he probably has one thing he likes, the rest are for other people. Eh....I'd just use it as a teaching opportunity, but I guess i'm odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Also, it sounds like it is a bar area...a home bar I mean. I don't know that someone COULD find another place in the home for that kind of set up. I know I have limited options for storing our liquor, as there are a lot of various bottles as our friends like different drinks. It isn't because we drink a lot. Most of it sits there for quite some time actually...I think we still have the special norwegian whiskey from 3 christmases ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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