Home canning question

[Lorien]

I would like to start canning vegetables - specifically tomatoes - and am wondering if I really do need a special pot for a water bath. If I already have a large pot, can I just use it? It has a glass lid though, is that a problem?

 

ETA: I am typing on the iPad and have no idea where the smilie in the title came from! I'm not upset or annoyed at all, just wondering if I can save a little of my Christmas money to spend on something other than another pot.

Edited January 15, 2012 by lorien

[NASDAQ]

If you're doing boiling water canning, you don't need a special pot. If you are doing pressure canning -- this is necessary for some vegetables but not tomatoes -- you do need a pressure canner.

[Lorien]

If you're doing boiling water canning, you don't need a special pot. If you are doing pressure canning -- this is necessary for some vegetables but not tomatoes -- you do need a pressure canner.

 

Thank you!

[bbkaren]

With today's low-acid tomatoes, I think they recommend that you add citric acid or lemon juice to increase the acidity.

 

As far as I know, all other vegetables need to be pressure canned (except for pickles/pickled veggies).

 

Check the Ball Book and you'll be good to go.

 

As long as your pot can accommodate the jars plus the water to cover them, and has a lid, you're also good to go!

 

Have fun--

[Lorien]

 

Have fun--

 

I am planning to! :001_smile:

[Lady Marmalade]

The only issue is that you need a rack or trivet or something on the bottom of the pot, otherwise the heat is too great for the glass jars and they WILL burst. You need a buffer on the inside of the pot. Any metal rack will do, and if you don't have something that can fit, you can also use metal canning rings tied together in a pinch.

 

Your pot also must be tall enough to cover the filled jars by two inches in order for them to properly process in a BWB canner.

 

The National Center For Home Food Preservation is a great resource for beginning canners.

[choirfarm]

The only issue is that you need a rack or trivet or something on the bottom of the pot, otherwise the heat is too great for the glass jars and they WILL burst. You need a buffer on the inside of the pot. Any metal rack will do, and if you don't have something that can fit, you can also use metal canning rings tied together in a pinch.

 

.

 

Wow.. I've been canning for 10 years and I've never had one burst. I make hot sauce and tomato sauce in just a plain big pot.

[Lady Marmalade]

Wow.. I've been canning for 10 years and I've never had one burst. I make hot sauce and tomato sauce in just a plain big pot.

 

Wow! You've been very lucky. I lost 6 quarts of pickles... oh, my, the mess! The boiling pickle/glass shard soup was enough to cure me of never trying to can without a rack in the bottom of my pot.

[BillieBoy]

Any pot can be used for a water bath, just make sure that your jars don't bang around and hit each other. However, I've been canning for twenty plus years and I would not water bath tomatoes in any form. I know that some do (have for years, Grandma did it ya da, ya da) and have great results, however I just won't take the chance of botulism.

 

Botulism is rare, but very deadly especially for infants and older people. Spore is in very soil virtually everywhere in the world, however it is anaerobic, growing and thriving without air, i.e. a canning jar.

 

You can not see it either. In order to kill the C. botulinum spore you need to reach very high temperatures which you can not do with water bath canning.

 

This is just MHO. Please check into it.

[Lawana]

Any pot can be used for a water bath, just make sure that your jars don't bang around and hit each other. However, I've been canning for twenty plus years and I would not water bath tomatoes in any form. I know that some do (have for years, Grandma did it ya da, ya da) and have great results, however I just won't take the chance of botulism.

 

Botulism is rare, but very deadly especially for infants and older people. Spore is in very soil virtually everywhere in the world, however it is anaerobic, growing and thriving without air, i.e. a canning jar.

 

You can not see it either. In order to kill the C. botulinum spore you need to reach very high temperatures which you can not do with water bath canning.

 

This is just MHO. Please check into it.

Botulism cannot exist in environments with pH less than 4.6. Adding 2 Tbs of lemon juice (or equiv) per quart gives the desired acidity.

 

BWB for tomatoes is very well established, and considered quite safe, as long a sufficient acidity is achieved.

[BillieBoy]

Botulism cannot exist in environments with pH less than 4.6. Adding 2 Tbs of lemon juice (or equiv) per quart gives the desired acidity.

 

BWB for tomatoes is very well established, and considered quite safe, as long a sufficient acidity is achieved.

 

Actually, as I understand it. A pH near 7 or neutral favors the growth of Clostridium botulinum, while growth is inhibited at a pH of 4.6 or lower. It does not kill it. Only high heat kills it. But, I may be wrong. :001_smile:

[Lawana]

Actually, as I understand it. A pH near 7 or neutral favors the growth of Clostridium botulinum, while growth is inhibited at a pH of 4.6 or lower. It does not kill it. Only high heat kills it. But, I may be wrong. :001_smile:

Perhaps you'd care to share your sources that indicate a danger in canning tomatoes via BWB with appropriately low ph.:confused:

[BillieBoy]

Perhaps you'd care to share your sources that indicate a danger in canning tomatoes via BWB with appropriately low ph.:confused:

 

Sure, but, first let me just say again, that botulism is very rare and most consider it a non issue. I just wanted to let the OP know that there are disagreements to BWB. And again, it's just a personal preference to me. I was the unfortunate witness to an toddler dying with acute botulism poisoning while I was working in an ER. It marked me.

 

 

*CDC. 1998. Botulism in the United States. 1899-1996: Handbook for Epidemiologists, Clinicians, and Laboratory Workers. Atlanta, GA: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

 

*Sobel, J., Tucker, N., Sulka, A., McLaughlin, J., and Maslanka, S. 2004. Foodborne Botulism in the United States, 1990-2000. Emerging Infectious Diseases, 10:1606-1611.

[Carrie12345]

Hijacking! (I just figure we don't need multiple newbie canning threads. ;))

 

Has anyone canned on a propane grill side burner? I have a glass top stove that shuts down with too much heat, but I really need to get into the canning game. Just wondering if I'll regret the amount (cost) of propane needed.

[OrganicAnn]

I always warn people considering canning that solid surface stoves are not good for canning. Some times people are not aware of this.

[Carrie12345]

I always warn people considering canning that solid surface stoves are not good for canning. Some times people are not aware of this.

 

I have a hard enough time getting pasta up to a boil! :lol:

[KungFuPanda]

Hijacking! (I just figure we don't need multiple newbie canning threads. ;))

 

Has anyone canned on a propane grill side burner? I have a glass top stove that shuts down with too much heat, but I really need to get into the canning game. Just wondering if I'll regret the amount (cost) of propane needed.

 

 

 

I always warn people considering canning that solid surface stoves are not good for canning. Some times people are not aware of this.

 

Can you get around this with a hot plate? Also, is the solid stove a problem if you're canning small batches? I only can recreationally with one of these in a stock pot:

 

I need a new stove. I love the electric ones with 2 ovens (one is small) but they all have solid surfaces. I also have cast iron cookware to consider. I thought I'd spring for dual fuel, but I'm in a temp apartment now and I just don't care for he gas range at all. I know that sounds un-chefy, but my daughter and I don't like the smell and I have no problem cooking on an electric range. (Husband and son smell nothing and think we're crazy.)

 

I know . . . massive high-jack :tongue_smilie:

[Lawana]

Sure, but, first let me just say again, that botulism is very rare and most consider it a non issue. I just wanted to let the OP know that there are disagreements to BWB. And again, it's just a personal preference to me. I was the unfortunate witness to an toddler dying with acute botulism poisoning while I was working in an ER. It marked me.

 

 

*CDC. 1998. Botulism in the United States. 1899-1996: Handbook for Epidemiologists, Clinicians, and Laboratory Workers. Atlanta, GA: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

 

*Sobel, J., Tucker, N., Sulka, A., McLaughlin, J., and Maslanka, S. 2004. Foodborne Botulism in the United States, 1990-2000. Emerging Infectious Diseases, 10:1606-1611.

I don't think anyone is discounting the issue of botulism. All those who can at home should be extremely aware of the potential for botulism. My disagreement with you here is in your including tomatoes with other vegetables and foods. Since you have read the above references, you know that a combination of factors are required for the C. botulinum bacteria to produce toxin. Low acidity is one of them, along with temperature above refridgerator temp, high water activity and an anaerobic environment. In the case of tomatoes with sufficiently low pH, the requirement for low acidity is *not* met. Hence, the toxin will not be produced. It doesn't matter if the spore is present, if the environment can't support the production of the toxin, since it is the toxin that can cause illness, not the spore itself.

 

While the above two references do note home canning in general as a potential source for botulism, it is generally agreed by reputable sources such as the USDA that BWB canning of tomatoes *is* safe, as long as sufficient acidity is achieved.

 

If you choose not to use BWB for tomatoes as a personal preference, that is up to you. I disagree that it calls for attempting to warn people away from it. It is an extremely easy way to safely preserve tomatoes, as long as the requirement for acidity is met.

[Happy]

Walmart has a large water bath pot with a grid for the bottom for about $10. I use mine when I make tomato salsa. It's usually kept where the canning jars are shelved.

 

If you are going to get into canning, a pressure cooker is a must. A water bath for tomatoes will get you started.

[Happy]

Can you get around this with a hot plate? Also, is the solid stove a problem if you're canning small batches? I only can recreationally with one of these in a stock pot:

 

I need a new stove. I love the electric ones with 2 ovens (one is small) but they all have solid surfaces. I also have cast iron cookware to consider. I thought I'd spring for dual fuel, but I'm in a temp apartment now and I just don't care for he gas range at all. I know that sounds un-chefy, but my daughter and I don't like the smell and I have no problem cooking on an electric range. (Husband and son smell nothing and think we're crazy.)

 

I know . . . massive high-jack :tongue_smilie:

 

I have a smooth top range and cast iron skillets. Never been a problem for us. I also can on that range.

[BillieBoy]

If you choose not to use BWB for tomatoes as a personal preference, that is up to you. I disagree that it calls for attempting to warn people away from it. It is an extremely easy way to safely preserve tomatoes, as long as the requirement for acidity is met.

 

Isn't that your opinion? Was I not stating my own? I was not bashing you for your practices. Look, I'm not going to argue with you here, and yes, it is a personal preference, which I believe I stated many times. I was not WARNING the OP, merry providing a different view point. Why so defensive? I believe my words were "check into it". Good of you to watch dog for her.

 

Really, the USDA? The same USDA that has been failing our communities by skimping on accountability, inspection enforcement, and allowing for our food supply to contain an outrageous percentage of genetically manipulated organisms (GMO's) and seed? Yeah, so trustworthy.

 

I'm out. I was trying to be friendly, but you turned this petty. :glare:

[KungFuPanda]

I have a smooth top range and cast iron skillets. Never been a problem for us. I also can on that range.

 

Excellent, because I REALLY want one of these :D

 

[Lawana]

Isn't that your opinion?

Yes, it is. An opinion supported by the known facts about botulism and home canning.

Was I not stating my own? I was not bashing you for your practices. And I am not bashing you for yours.

Look, I'm not going to argue with you here, and yes, it is a personal preference, which I believe I stated many times. I was not WARNING the OP, merry providing a different view point.

 

 However, I've been canning for twenty plus years and I would not water bath tomatoes in any form. 

Yes, as a matter of fact, these words did come across to me as a warning against BWB method of canning tomatoes.

Why so defensive? If by defensive, you mean defending the method of BWB as a safe and practical method of preserving tomatoes, then I was defensive because to suggest otherwise doesn't match up with what is currently known about the matter. I was concerned that your words might dissuade the OP, or someone else, from undertaking the gateway project of canning tomatoes. Someone considering preservation of food as a new endeavor is well served, *in my opinion*, to start with BWB canning of tomatoes. I have never read anything to indicate otherwise.

 

I believe my words were "check into it". I did. And didn't find anything to contradict what I had previously understood. I read your sources.

Good of you to watch dog for her. Forgive me if your post was intended only for the OP, and not for anyone else.

 

Really, the USDA? The same USDA that has been failing our communities by skimping on accountability, inspection enforcement, and allowing for our food supply to contain an outrageous percentage of genetically manipulated organisms (GMO's) and seed? Yeah, so trustworthy.

Since the USDA recommends only pressure canning pH neutral vegetables and meats, are you suggesting I disregard them as a reliable source?

 

I'm out. I was trying to be friendly, but you turned this petty. :glare:

I'm very sorry you see this as petty. What I responded to was what I saw as a warning against a practice that is accepted as safe. In the first source you cite, no recorded case of botulism by BWB home-canned tomatoes during the years from 1990-2000 was reported. My attempt here was to present the facts as generally accepted by those that have quantified the variables. The conclusion I read was that BWB is an acceptable, safe method to preserve tomatoes at home. If you have evidence to the contrary, please do present it.

There is nothing personal at all about this. I am very sorry that you have had an emotionally distressing experience with botulism.:grouphug:

[cajunrose]

Ok, I'm about to get a new stove top. The only kind I can get is electric drop in. Is a glass range not ok for canning? That is one of the big reasons I'm getting a new one!

[KungFuPanda]

I would like to start canning vegetables - specifically tomatoes - and am wondering if I really do need a special pot for a water bath. If I already have a large pot, can I just use it? It has a glass lid though, is that a problem?

 

ETA: I am typing on the iPad and have no idea where the smilie in the title came from! I'm not upset or annoyed at all, just wondering if I can save a little of my Christmas money to spend on something other than another pot.

 

Do you have ample freezer space? Tomatoes freeze so nicely, that I'd go that route if I had a larger freezer. (I know that has nothing to do with your original question. Just thought I'd throw it out there.)

[cjzimmer1]

Can you get around this with a hot plate? Also, is the solid stove a problem if you're canning small batches? I only can recreationally with one of these in a stock pot:

 

I need a new stove. I love the electric ones with 2 ovens (one is small) but they all have solid surfaces. I also have cast iron cookware to consider. I thought I'd spring for dual fuel, but I'm in a temp apartment now and I just don't care for he gas range at all. I know that sounds un-chefy, but my daughter and I don't like the smell and I have no problem cooking on an electric range. (Husband and son smell nothing and think we're crazy.)

 

I know . . . massive high-jack :tongue_smilie:

 

Have you considered an induction stove? The reason you are not suppose to can on an electric smooth top is because the power cycles on and off and that can mess up the safety/timing for canning. The induction stove runs on a completely different principle and doesn't cycle on/off because the amount of heat is determined by how fast the magnets are running. Adjusting the temp adjusts the speed the magnets move but doesn't turn them off. It's super fast. My large canning pot took 1 hour to boil on my old coil stove and it takes 18 minutes on my induction stove. Also I put a silicone mat under my cast iron pans (not something you can do on an electric smoothtop but is fine when using induction) and then I don't have to worry about etching the glass, the mats are also great to prevent pots from sliding around when you are stirring.

 

 

And the Electolux one comes with a double oven.

 

It's a pricey stove, but I can't tell you how much I absolutely adore my stove. I saved up for 2 years to get it and I would never go back to any other type, because between the speed and super easy cleanup (not to mention the double oven), it is the best stove I've ever used.

[bbkaren]

1. I've canned on my grill side burner - it's a godsend when canning in the summer. I do support it underneath by sliding something beneath it, since the canner's really heavy.

 

2. Someone mentioned a "Pressure Cooker"...you need a pressure CANNER. They're not the same thing:

 

http://www.foodsafety.wisc.edu/consumer/fact_sheets/pressurecannerandcooker.pdf

[Lorien]

Thanks for all the replies (and I found the hijacking helpful too :001_smile:). I will probably start with a water bath, but my aim is to one day can a lot more food and, to do what I want, I will need a pressure canner.

 

What's the best pressure canner? Any recommendations?

[bbkaren]

If you've got the loot, you can't beat the All American. There's a metal-on-metal seal, and hence, no rubber gasket to replace. They're stellar.

 

That said, I have three Presto's, and they've worked great for me! I especially like a pressure canner with a gauge so I can keep an eye on the pressure. I'm always afraid when I go by the weighted ones, that I might be under- or over-shooting pressure depending on the "tempo" of the hisses.

[Lorien]

If you've got the loot, you can't beat the All American. There's a metal-on-metal seal, and hence, no rubber gasket to replace. They're stellar.

 

That said, I have three Presto's, and they've worked great for me! I especially like a pressure canner with a gauge so I can keep an eye on the pressure. I'm always afraid when I go by the weighted ones, that I might be under- or over-shooting pressure depending on the "tempo" of the hisses.

 

Thanks! I'll be talking this over with my husband and will see what he thinks we should do.

[cjzimmer1]

All American is the best. I have a Presto 23 qt that I like. I cannot use the All American on my smooth top range because the bottom has grooves in it (per their website).

 

My Presto has a smooth bottom and it covers my burner completely so the temp won't cycle. I called my range company Samsung and got the okay.

 

To the poster who posted about the silicone mat....you're a genius! I just bought two of those mats. I have scratched my top just a tiny bit with my cast iron. TY!!!!!!!!

 

 

If you have an electric smoothtop (and I'm assuming you do because you are using a Presto Pressure Canner which doesn't work on induction), I would do some research before you try this. With your type of stove, the heat is coming from under the glass and will have to penetrate through the mat and then heat the pot. At best you will probably see a performance hit and worst you will melt the mat to your stove and/or pot.

 

I can use them on induction because the heat comes directly from the pot (the molecules in the pot are excited by the magnets under the glass and so the pot itself becomes the source of heat) and thus the heat doesn't have to pass through the mat. Also because you are only getting residual heat, the mat is not as likely to get as hot on induction.

 

I just wanted to say this because I do not know if it is safe on your type of stove and I didn't want you to make the assumption that because it is safe on induction that it would be safe on all smoothtops. The two types of stoves operate on very different principles for heating and I don't want to be the cause if something goes wrong when using it on a different type of stove than the kind I suggested.