If you've done both MFW and HOD....

[cbollin]

Julie, Katrina, and Dorinda, I was curious if you are discussing the same version of ECC. Wasn't it updated recently?

 

Thanks,

Kathy

 

Hi Kathy,

 

I'm none of those ladies, but.. I have some pieces of the puzzle to share about that.

 

I've done 1st edition and own 2nd edition. I also did the "new" parts when they came out because we were just finishing ECC (the second time) when 2nd edition was released. so me being me.. I had to get the new stuff and try to do those. but..

 

The only major content difference is the book Prop. of Ecosystems, which I didn't see anyone bring up that book. It's a multi level text book which can be a level jump at first, but MFW does give tips on how to use it in multi level.

 

The other books that are discussed in the thread are the same in 1st and 2nd edition, such as A Trip, Another Trip, and World Geography, Windows on the World, etc. oh wait, oh yes, God Speaks Nummangang was not in 1st edition. It's a testimony and explanation of Bible translation.

 

other differences in 1st vs. 2nd edition are cosmetic changes to student sheets, and grid for older children doing the research and independent biography readings. so that really wouldn't be the difference in experiences as 1st and 2nd aren't that different with exception of Properties of Ecosystems.

 

My story is similar to Julie's. I did ECC the first time when my oldest was in 2nd grade. ADV had not yet been written. So, at first, I tried to do all of the advanced assignments - ooh my child is advanced... Only to find out that "advanced" really meant higher grade levels. I had to learn. We really liked it and it fit well. Games, time to share pictures. food. parts of the stories (in deluxe) I retold instead of reading word for word. We made flags, crafts, etc. I was in the other boat -- is this really going to be enough when my daughter reaches 7th grade???

 

then 5 years later... we did ECC (first edition) with 7th grader and 4th grader. It worked great. Did all of the advanced assignments, research packet... and my oldest still enjoyed the book basket books and stories and all of that. Then right at the end of our year was when 2nd edition was released. I grabbed Prop of Eco, and God Speaks Numanngang. yes, there are cosmetics differences in the editions.

 

I guess the weird part of me on the question of help me figure out if mfw or hod is a better fit - well, has been looking at the books hod uses and getting some of them from library to put in book basket. I've watched my middle gal read them, enjoy them and then ask to do her lessons in mfw. Then, all of a sudden, just when I think "maybe I should try HOD?" God will do something like make our MFW lessons and our real life and church stuff all line up the same week.

 

so, it remains clear to me that God wants me to use MFW. My hope is that HE will make it as crystal clear (pun intended) to other homeschooler the path HE has in mind for them (mfw, hod, tog, sl, textbook only, etc.)

 

hope that information on the editions is helpful.

 

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Julie, Katrina, and Dorinda, I was curious if you are discussing the same version of ECC. Wasn't it updated recently?

 

Thanks,

Kathy

 

Crystal explained the differences - thanks for typing that out, Crystal.

 

I used 1st edition in 3rd grade and 2nd edition in 8th grade. The new extra grid for 7-8th was really nice. The new Properties of Ecosystems wasn't a big part of my son's 8th grade ECC since he was doing 7-8th grade science by then, but it was a nice Christian resource and had some fun experiments (he & dad weighed our recycling, I remember). I used to tell folks with little ones to skip POE, since there is plenty of other science with the nature walks, weekly experiments, plant growing, etc. But Lucy at the MFW office convinced me that the Christian perspective and the extra hands-on experiments were worth the purchase price of the book, if nothing else (MFW got permission to reprint the POE teacher guide in their manual and student sheets in their packet, so it's just one book to purchase). So, although Crystal is right in that POE hasn't been mentioned in this thread, it is one of the only changes I saw, and a person can use some of it with littles and still come out with a useful resource. (My youngest was in public school for K-2 and really there was no science, his 1st grade teacher got a nice grant for hands-on materials but never had time to use it, his 2nd grade teacher didn't know if there was a science she was supposed to do...)

 

Why oh why can't I type anything short?!

Julie

[coffeefreak]

Dorinda, can I ask which years of MFW you liked the best? We are doing ECC, and I'm curious how CtG compares.

 

We have used EX-1850 and 1850-MOD. I'm not going to use CTG or RTR. My oldest will not be doing them with us, and I'm not impressed with the book choices. We're going to use MOH as our spine and maybe Biblioplan (the vote is still out on this thread :D)I used MOH with my oldest and I thought I'd try it with my youngest. Winter Promise has me intrigued, but I'm hesitant to spend all that money on a guide I can't re-sell.

 

Did you not get any of the books that were in Book Basket? Also, some people buy books from SL to use in lieu of Book Basket.

 

I'd like to see MFW incorporate A Child's Geography somehow, but it's not likely since they just revised ECC a couple years ago.

 

The nice thing about GtG is that each country is a stand-alone unit, and there's no "continuation" of Bible from one continent to the next like there is in ECC. You can plug in a country from GtG wherever you want. :)

 

But you'd have to figure out where to put HOD "on hold" in order to do the GtG units. Which is not that big of a deal, really. Just something to keep in mind.

 

We did do the book basket, but I really felt like if I have to pick up all these books to engage my youngest, why am I using this at all? The blessing of the book basket has always been lost on me. I buy a complete curriculum so I don't have to prep and go to the library every week. I didn't do the book basket with the other years. We decided to enroll my oldest in an online class this semester, so I knew it wouldn't be worth continuing. The only thing my oldest liked was the student sheets. She didn't enjoy any of the reading either. OH, and another thing that bugged me about ECC was all the photocopying of the book "A Trip Around The World." I'm horrible at photocopying every week. GTG now comes with a disk that has all the reproducibles on it. I printed them all off and put them in her notebook for the semester. LOVE IT!!!

 

I also agree and like what Donna said about GTG's countries being stand alone units. That's a huge advantage IMO. For example, the Chinese New Year is next week. This week, we're studying China and having a party on Monday to celebrate their New Year. It's a great book to have around just to use once in a while!

 

HTH!

Blessings!

Dorinda

 

ETA I thought of another problem with ECC. There is an atlas that absolutely does not match up to the instructor's guide. They know it, but they don't have a resolution for it. Crystal (hi Crystal!) was very helpful in explaining the situation to me, but I have found other Atlases for my dd to use with GTG that MFW could have subbed for in the second edition of ECC. Since the Atlas is used every other day in the guide, it was an extremely frustrating experience for me and also tainted my opinion of ECC.

Edited January 18, 2012 by coffeefreak

[coffeefreak]

Crystal explained the differences - thanks for typing that out, Crystal.

 

I used 1st edition in 3rd grade and 2nd edition in 8th grade. The new extra grid for 7-8th was really nice. The new Properties of Ecosystems wasn't a big part of my son's 8th grade ECC since he was doing 7-8th grade science by then, but it was a nice Christian resource and had some fun experiments (he & dad weighed our recycling, I remember). I used to tell folks with little ones to skip POE, since there is plenty of other science with the nature walks, weekly experiments, plant growing, etc. But Lucy at the MFW office convinced me that the Christian perspective and the extra hands-on experiments were worth the purchase price of the book, if nothing else (MFW got permission to reprint the POE teacher guide in their manual and student sheets in their packet, so it's just one book to purchase). So, although Crystal is right in that POE hasn't been mentioned in this thread, it is one of the only changes I saw, and a person can use some of it with littles and still come out with a useful resource. (My youngest was in public school for K-2 and really there was no science, his 1st grade teacher got a nice grant for hands-on materials but never had time to use it, his 2nd grade teacher didn't know if there was a science she was supposed to do...)

 

Why oh why can't I type anything short?!

Julie

 

I can't type anything short either Julie :D

 

We have the 2nd edition. We LOVE POE! Oddly enough, I should mention that we actually loved the two science spines. POE and The Usborne Living Encyclopedia. As a matter of fact, we're still using them. :D I also purchased The Complete Book of Animals and we're using that with GTG. PERFECT go along for a study of different countries.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[coffeefreak]

Dorinda, can I ask which years of MFW you liked the best? We are doing ECC, and I'm curious how CtG compares.

 

Mallorie,

I forgot to say, we loved both EX-1850 and 1850-MOD. My oldest was in 4th and 5th, and is an advanced reader (I don't know if that matters). My plan is to only use MOH for two years and then use the two MFW units. She'll be in 6th and 7th which I think will be the right years for her to use them.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[melissamomof5]

This has been such a great thread to read...to get good perspectives from both sides.

 

I am on year 4 with MFW and have never really loved any of the years, but enough to keep on with it. This year I've struggled badly on and off with ECC. Some days the kiddos get it and others I wonder if they're getting anything from it at all. I like POE, but not for young elementary students. I have given up on that book.

 

I "plan" to switch to HOD later this year, if the Lord doesn't change my mind first. I am still in prayer over the matter.

 

I know I really don't have any help to offer, but I wanted you all to know I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences. :D

[Mallorie]

Mallorie,

I forgot to say, we loved both EX-1850 and 1850-MOD. My oldest was in 4th and 5th, and is an advanced reader (I don't know if that matters). My plan is to only use MOH for two years and then use the two MFW units. She'll be in 6th and 7th which I think will be the right years for her to use them.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

 

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad that you loved the other two programs that you used. I am still leaning toward MFW for CtG, because my oldest is going to be in AHL for 9th grade, therefore, they'd all be studying the same time period.

 

I would agree that it's all about finding the best fit for each family, and no one program will fit all. For instance, I have MOH, and it just drove me batty. LOL

 

I also found a blog where this lady uses some notebooking/lapbooking resources to go along with CtG, and I think i'm going to copy her ideas. I can't remember where I found this blog, so if it was through here, and she sees this: Hi, and thanks! :001_smile:

 

http://tammiestime.blogspot.com/p/curriculum-choices-2011-2012.html

[abrightmom]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad that you loved the other two programs that you used. I am still leaning toward MFW for CtG, because my oldest is going to be in AHL for 9th grade, therefore, they'd all be studying the same time period.

 

I would agree that it's all about finding the best fit for each family, and no one program will fit all. For instance, I have MOH, and it just drove me batty. LOL

 

I also found a blog where this lady uses some notebooking/lapbooking resources to go along with CtG, and I think i'm going to copy her ideas. I can't remember where I found this blog, so if it was through here, and she sees this: Hi, and thanks! :001_smile:

 

http://tammiestime.blogspot.com/p/curriculum-choices-2011-2012.html

Thanks for sharing that blog link! I love the looks of MFW CTG and actually LIKE the books used :D.

[jer2911mom]

Crystal and Julie, thanks for your explanations! They were helpful!

 

Kathy

[Mallorie]

Thanks for sharing that blog link! I love the looks of MFW CTG and actually LIKE the books used :D.

 

You're welcome! I was pretty excited to come across it myself. Lapbooking/notebooking is something I think I really would have gotten into when I was a kid. I don't know if ds will be as excited but I think my dd will really get into those next year. They just look like a fun addition. :)

[gratitude]

so, it remains clear to me that God wants me to use MFW. My hope is that HE will make it as crystal clear (pun intended) to other homeschooler the path HE has in mind for them (mfw, hod, tog, sl, textbook only, etc.)

 

-crystal

 

Yes, Crystal that is exactly it! The clarity that I seek. :confused: Clarity of knowing that God wants me to use.....

 

I imagine some other moms reading this thread long for the same clarity too. Reading this thread though is helping.

 

I still remember (hopefully this won't sound too strange from a mom 6 months at the time into home schooling) praying at 6 months into my oldest K year over every idea and catalogue I had in my possession. God led me to MFW1 (1/2 way through K) and it was perfect for him. Absolutely perfect. It was, to date, the best 9 months I have had home schooling. Since then it has been a bit more of a roller coaster ride. Mostly due to the fact that he finished MFW1 with flying colors and advanced (7th grade) reading skills, but was so far far behind in writing & spelling skills that ADV was far beyond his abilities. (I let him dictate to me in MFW1). The best part of this current year so far has been Apologia Astronomy. That one decision was excellent. Singapore and Rod & Staff English continue to be a solid rock for the basics. But the main reason I choose to home school was: B-I-B-L-E !!!!!!!!

 

Sorry, tangent. I certainly did not mean to side track the thread. I think I need to pray again specifically about curriculum, it certainly helped when God made it very clear which program he wanted me to use. Ironically, without prayer, he led me back to MFW1 for ds6 last week. Praise God. I know it will work.

 

To the original post: Yes, I have used both. Both great programs. You really can not go wrong either way. If you are happy with HOD, stay there. The grass is always greenest in the place where it is working; even if it looks greener on the other side of the fence, it never is. If it works, and isn't broken, it isn't worth changing.

 

I have a question though: which program is stronger for Bible?

Edited January 20, 2012 by gratitude

[melissamomof5]

 

I have a question though: which program is stronger for Bible?

 

I haven't used HOD yet, although I do have 3 guides w/ books in my possession awaiting use ;).

 

From all my asking around, looking myself at the guides and materials, and my personal 4 years of experience with MFW...they both use the bible extensively...HOD uses it with more of an inward focus (time with the Lord, personal devotion, application) and MFW uses it more with an outward focus (missions, praying for others, being aware of others' need for Christ, etc).

 

Both are great, just different.

[cbollin]

I haven't used HOD yet, although I do have 3 guides w/ books in my possession awaiting use ;).

 

From all my asking around, looking myself at the guides and materials, and my personal 4 years of experience with MFW...they both use the bible extensively...HOD uses it with more of an inward focus (time with the Lord, personal devotion, application) and MFW uses it more with an outward focus (missions, praying for others, being aware of others' need for Christ, etc).

 

Both are great, just different.

 

hmm.... maybe it's just the limits of internet communication. It is hard to describe how these programs are different. Maybe it's like trying to describe differences in coffee flavors... you just have to taste it to understand. This morning I have a bolder coffee than yesterday. :)

 

I don't want others reading to have a take away message of "mfw excludes inward."

 

There certainly is an outward focus, but not at the expense of inward. I've used Pre K through WHL. I wonder if I can help describe it a bit more....

 

From Pre K until High School, MFW has Bible in the program as family devotional time. As the family gets older, there are shifts in focus and who does what even in the "5 year cycle" programs. So it's gradual transition over years.

 

Pre K - time of worship through song and hiding the word in their hearts.

Kindy - that's time with who God is and getting to know Him

1st - time in the Word, memory work, applying Proverbs to your life.

ADV - getting to know Jesus

 

Definitely an inward time.

 

ECC - now we know all of that. let's take it into the world :) a full year study on book of Matthew. so we get both the inward - study of character traits, the gospel. We get the outward - praying for others, learning that some people leave their own country.

 

CTG - studying OT. again, this is family led devotions instead of each child trying to do it on their own. As parents we are the ones teaching them at this stage. (hmm.. is that a difference in these programs?)

 

RTR - NT study. lots of personal devotion. Dangerous Journey for example.

 

EX1850: this is a unique year in the MFW Bible. students who are old enough will have their devotional book for personal time and devotion and application from book of James, while also memorizing the entire book of James. younger students will also use the study book, but parent guided. It's from the read alouds that an outward focus happens.

 

1850MOD - Bible is devotional with Young Person's Guide . Bible time is world focus with devotional by using Tales of Persia. World focus in prayer time.

 

High school -

AHL: read and study, personal devotional time from OT. "go into the world" focus is through encouragement of service projects.

 

WHL: NT, church history (personal devotional time... they are old enough now to study more on their own and process themselves with weekly meetings with you.) service projects again. Devotional and application and growth studies with Experiencing God.

 

US1 and US2: well, I haven't used them yet. It definitely has a new flavor as our children have to decide if this is something they will do for their lives.

 

I haven't used HOD to know what it does... But MFW does both "personal inward" and "go into the world". It's not an either or situation with MFW. As parents we guide our children into the Word. We help them grow over the years, we teach them. Then, we help them to spread their wings and learn to do this for themselves. It's stages of learning meets life long mentoring roles of parents.

 

 

-crystal

[melissamomof5]

hmm.... maybe it's just the limits of internet communication. It is hard to describe how these programs are different. Maybe it's like trying to describe differences in coffee flavors... you just have to taste it to understand. This morning I have a bolder coffee than yesterday. :)

 

I don't want others reading to have a take away message of "mfw excludes inward."

 

There certainly is an outward focus, but not at the expense of inward. I've used Pre K through WHL. I wonder if I can help describe it a bit more....

 

From Pre K until High School, MFW has Bible in the program as family devotional time. As the family gets older, there are shifts in focus and who does what even in the "5 year cycle" programs. So it's gradual transition over years.

 

Pre K - time of worship through song and hiding the word in their hearts.

Kindy - that's time with who God is and getting to know Him

1st - time in the Word, memory work, applying Proverbs to your life.

ADV - getting to know Jesus

 

Definitely an inward time.

 

ECC - now we know all of that. let's take it into the world :) a full year study on book of Matthew. so we get both the inward - study of character traits, the gospel. We get the outward - praying for others, learning that some people leave their own country.

 

CTG - studying OT. again, this is family led devotions instead of each child trying to do it on their own. As parents we are the ones teaching them at this stage. (hmm.. is that a difference in these programs?)

 

RTR - NT study. lots of personal devotion. Dangerous Journey for example.

 

EX1850: this is a unique year in the MFW Bible. students who are old enough will have their devotional book for personal time and devotion and application from book of James, while also memorizing the entire book of James. younger students will also use the study book, but parent guided. It's from the read alouds that an outward focus happens.

 

1850MOD - Bible is devotional with Young Person's Guide . Bible time is world focus with devotional by using Tales of Persia. World focus in prayer time.

 

High school -

AHL: read and study, personal devotional time from OT. "go into the world" focus is through encouragement of service projects.

 

WHL: NT, church history (personal devotional time... they are old enough now to study more on their own and process themselves with weekly meetings with you.) service projects again. Devotional and application and growth studies with Experiencing God.

 

US1 and US2: well, I haven't used them yet. It definitely has a new flavor as our children have to decide if this is something they will do for their lives.

 

I haven't used HOD to know what it does... But MFW does both "personal inward" and "go into the world". It's not an either or situation with MFW. As parents we guide our children into the Word. We help them grow over the years, we teach them. Then, we help them to spread their wings and learn to do this for themselves. It's stages of learning meets life long mentoring roles of parents.

 

 

-crystal

 

Crystal - as always - a very great explanation of MFW. I didn't want to put it in a bad light, I truly have not experienced these great insights with it...not that they're not there...I just have missed it. Thank you for sharing. :)

[cbollin]

and to clarify on my coffee flavors... yesterday I had one with a touch more chocolate.. this one today is a different roast. I really was talking coffee and no hidden message in it. :lol: it was an analogy on how difficult it is to describe these 2 programs. both are really good!

 

our local grocery store had a fancy brand on sale (Gevalia) and I bought several flavors to try. so that's why I was talking coffee flavors.

 

-crystal

[melissamomof5]

and to clarify on my coffee flavors... yesterday I had one with a touch more chocolate.. this one today is a different roast. I really was talking coffee and no hidden message in it. :lol: it was an analogy on how difficult it is to describe these 2 programs. both are really good!

 

our local grocery store had a fancy brand on sale (Gevalia) and I bought several flavors to try. so that's why I was talking coffee flavors.

 

-crystal

 

I share your fondness of coffee. I also brewed a different blend today---michigan cherry!

 

In all seriousness though, I really wish I shared the enthusiasm you have for MFW right now. I wonder if I'll come back around to it...I just may. :D

But really, your excitement about it really is infectious.

[NCJessieRN]

I can share my experience. I'm not sure if you will find it helpful though.

 

I've used MFW K, 1st, Adventures and ECC. Last year, at the hs conference I bought CtG will full intentions to use it for 2011-2012. A couple months later, I started to have doubts and found a great deal on HOD's Bigger program used and decided to go with that.

 

What I liked:

-The history selections, hands on activities and the science.

 

What I didn't like:

-How the manual was organized. I much prefer the weekly grid b/c there are days we want to continue and I will just do a whole weeks worth of science for example. With HOD, I would have to keep flipping around.

-I felt as though Bible was just an add on not really part of every aspect of the program. So, IMO, MFW does a better job with that.

 

After using HOD Bigger until Nov. (we started at the end of July and I had a baby in Oct.) I decided to go back to my original plan of using CtG. We are only in week 3 and are loving it. It feels like we are back "home".

 

Both programs are very good and I don't think you can really go wrong. Praying for you though, that the Lord would make his plan for your family clear.

:)

 

ETA: Looks like I need to update my siggy! Lol!

Edited January 20, 2012 by NCJessieRN

[gratitude]

I share your fondness of coffee. I also brewed a different blend today---michigan cherry!

 

In all seriousness though, I really wish I shared the enthusiasm you have for MFW right now. I wonder if I'll come back around to it...I just may. :D

But really, your excitement about it really is infectious.

 

I have to join the coffee conversation. My DH is home due to another day of snow (we never get snow) :). So my oldest and I walked a 1/2 mile or so to the closest bakery. Oh, did that dark roasted coffee taste good... love my cities coffee... :)

 

On a serious note. Melissa I am sorry that ECC hasn't worked out for you. May I take a moment to share my experience with it this fall. My oldest, ds8/2nd grade, wasn't ready for it. We too have done MFWK, 1, and parts of ADV (guilt.. guilt). Seriously ECC was over my 2nd grades head. He has my dads IQ too (extremely high.. top whatever %), but it was honestly too much for his brain in 2nd grade. Are you sure it didn't work due to the program, or was it due to the ages? Please take that gently.. I care. He did LOVE reading Windows of the World and David Hazel's book on his own. I think it could work someday, but not now...

 

Now, on HOD. I am only have used Beyond since November (I am now taking ds6 to MFW1), just started Bigger for my oldest; so I don't have a lot of experience with HOD. I am dearly missing MFW Bible though. But a few weeks isn't enough to 'truly be in the know' of the differences, which is why I asked the Bible question. I do agree with Crystal though that MFW is both inward and outward.

 

God Bless all of you.

Carin

Edited January 20, 2012 by gratitude

[gratitude]

What I didn't like in HOD:

-I felt as though Bible was just an add on not really part of every aspect of the program.

 

That is exactly what I have been feeling in our first 3 weeks of Bigger. Bible has felt like an add on. Thank you for putting it into words. It is so early I have not wanted to judge the program after 3 weeks.

[melissamomof5]

I have to join the coffee conversation. My DH is home due to another day of snow (we never get snow) :). So my oldest and I walked a 1/2 mile or so to the closest bakery. Oh, did that dark roasted coffee taste good... love my cities coffee... :)

 

On a serious note. Melissa I am sorry that ECC hasn't worked out for you. May I take a moment to share my experience with it this fall. My oldest, ds8/2nd grade, wasn't ready for it. We too have done MFWK, 1, and parts of ADV (guilt.. guilt). Seriously ECC was over my 2nd grades head. He has my dads IQ too (extremely high.. top whatever %), but it was honestly too much for his brain in 2nd grade. Are you sure it didn't work due to the program, or was it due to the ages? Please take that gently.. I care. He did LOVE reading Windows of the World and David Hazel's book on his own. I think it could work someday, but not now...

 

Now, on HOD. I am only a few weeks in to Bigger so I don't have a lot of experience. I am dearly missing MFW Bible though. But a few weeks isn't enough to 'truly be in the know' of the differences, which is why I asked the Bible question. I do agree with Crystal though that MFW is both inward and outward.

 

God Bless all of you.

Carin

 

I totally feel the warmth of your words and appreciate them. :) I really am not sure and I think the only way I will know for sure is to try HOD. But, I am very open to using MFW if HOD doesn't work for us or feel right. Nothing else even interests me...just these two.

 

That is exactly what I have been feeling in our first 3 weeks of Bigger. Bible has felt like an add on. Thank you for putting it into words. It is so early I have not wanted to judge the program after 3 weeks.

 

This kind of makes me wonder...only way I'll know for sure is to try---but one of the things that has drawn me to HOD is the way they use the Bible. :001_huh: So, maybe I'll feel the same way as you both once I get into it...I am anxious to see!

[Donna A.]

I have a question though: which program is stronger for Bible?

 

As someone else said, they're both "strong" in Bible. Just different.

 

I think that before choosing any curriculum, especially one that claims to be of a CM "flavor", one needs to understand both the goals behind the curriculum and Miss Mason herself. And since we're on the WTM board, I'll just throw this out there.... also understand the differences between a WTM style of classical education vs. Miss Mason's style. (She was a classical educator of her day.) Figure out exactly what you WANT in a curriculum. Realize that this may look different for a 5yo than a 15yo. Realize also that everything gets repeated at some point, as there's no new thing under the sun. (Said by one of the wisest men who ever lived, King Solomon. ;) ) Understand how these different methods and curriculums "grow" and change through the years. Understand the goals of both the philosophy behind said curriculum and your own family. Do you have a target, or are you just shooting in the wind from year to year? Will this curriculum be a helpful tool in achieving those goals (both academic and spiritual), or is it just going to frustrate you? If you haven't prayed about these things, stop and do that FIRST. And then do it some more.... daily. Check yourself periodically and make sure you're on track. Children change, Mom changes, family circumstances change, needs change. We have to bump and flex along the way, making sure we stay on the straight and narrow path to reach that target on the other side. But understanding both the HOW and the WHY of what we're doing as we "sit in the house, walk by the way, when we lie down and when we rise", teaching our children to love the Lord God with all their heart, soul, and mind, will go a long way in contentment. :)

 

All that said, here's a post I wrote one time on how MFW incorporates both the CM style and a biblical foundation over the long term. I know I've posted this before, but I'm sure there are new readers in this thread and since the question of biblical "strength" came up, I might as well post it again: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4004#p66798

 

HTH someone. :)

[Edwena]

This is our 2nd year using HOD and I honestly don't feel like the Bible feels like an add-on. I've never used MFW though. I love how Carrie has used the book of Proverbs (for Bigger) for memory work and then connects that with a character trait we are to be working on in our lives for the week. The historical figure we're learning about somehow portrays that character trait. It's all very encouraging to me. Then on the fifth day, she ties it all in to a Bible character that portrayed that character trait. I hope I'm explaining well. I'm not good with words.:blushing:

[JessReplanted]

Thoughts please. :)

 

I waffled around between the two last year, and spent hours comparing and researching. We finally decided to go with HOD, and we've actually been pretty happy. I'm expecting baby #5 and really needed my days spelled out for me. HOD has done that, and I love the book choices and the fact that it is simple yet thorough.

 

But I guess I'm suffering from a little bit of "grass is greener" syndrome. One reason is that HOD's teachers' guide is so detailed, and if I don't keep up with it, I get a little anxious. The 1 day spread is bothering me a little too. I'm wondering if I would do better with the week spread of MFW.

 

Also, 3rd grade dd is getting tired of pilgrims and homesteading. (and I kind of don't blame her) Since I've combined both of them into Beyond this year, she'll have even more of it next year with Bigger. So, I'm considering switching to MFW ECC for next year and deciding between the 2 after that.

 

Anyway, since I only have experience with HOD, I would love to hear from someone who has used both. (Keep in mind that combining my kids is important to me at this point)

 

I am shocked! You convinced me to get HOD, and now you're going to jump ship?!?

Kidding. ;)

 

I've had to do a lot of 'tweaking' so far this year. I had to really let go of my expectations and just accept that we'll be spending 2 years with these guides. And for Noah, I often end up flipping through 2-3 days at a time to see what will actually work for us for that day. I put a check mark on the boxes that we finish, and then I end up making up the rest of the 'day' at some other time.

 

Even with all of this jumping around, I am still happy with the program.

I am hoping that after we move and get settled and really get into school again that the 'days' work will go smoother for him than it did at the beginning.

 

So, I would say that if you like the content, then don't be so intimidated by the boxes or the 'days' - make it work for you.

 

Oh, and CLE math. ;)

[gratitude]

Quoted Melissa, "This kind of makes me wonder...only way I'll know for sure is to try---but one of the things that has drawn me to HOD is the way they use the Bible. :001_huh: So, maybe I'll feel the same way as you both once I get into it...I am anxious to see!"

 

I will be curious to see what you think.

 

I think it really comes down to personal preference. The styles are very different in the way they approach Bible. HOD has more devotionals. I like Marie's style of reading from scripture & the way she integrates it into the program. Carrie gives a lot of good questions, and reads from scripture too; it is just different. Once you try you will know! :)

[keyjoh62080]

This is our 2nd year using HOD and I honestly don't feel like the Bible feels like an add-on. I've never used MFW though. I love how Carrie has used the book of Proverbs (for Bigger) for memory work and then connects that with a character trait we are to be working on in our lives for the week. The historical figure we're learning about somehow portrays that character trait. It's all very encouraging to me. Then on the fifth day, she ties it all in to a Bible character that portrayed that character trait. I hope I'm explaining well. I'm not good with words.:blushing:

 

You have explained it wonderfully! :iagree: :iagree:

[Julie in MN]

That is exactly what I have been feeling in our first 3 weeks of Bigger. Bible has felt like an add on. Thank you for putting it into words. It is so early I have not wanted to judge the program after 3 weeks.

 

I haven't used HOD. I've looked at the samples now & again, and I'm sure it's put together by lovely folks who poured their hearts into it. But one of the first HOD samples I looked at had kids studying Noah, and reading from Ephesians and Psalms.

 

I will just say that I have a priority in my own life: I don't want my kids to jump around in the Bible. My fear is that anyone could lead them towards believing anything, if they took the 66 books in the Bible and scrambled up all the verses. That's how *I* felt as a young person who hadn't read the Bible in order. One could even try to prove the Bible was false by using verses out of order.

 

MFW had me when they said that ECC used Matthew line-by-line. I actually would love it if they did that every year, but I know many folks want to change it up, so there are some years where Bible is done a bit differently. But I've used MFW from 3rd to 10th grade so far and I've never felt that my child was expected to read something from the Bible that he wasn't absolutely clear about where it was in the Bible, who said it, and what context it was in.

 

I also never felt in the 3rd-8th cycle that he was reading it without a parent's guidance (not guidance that a book told me to say, but guidance from my heart).

 

And finally, I've never felt that the Bible portion was something we could skip when using MFW.

 

But again, the most important thing for me when I look at a curriculum is reading the real Bible (not a summary), and reading it in its real context (not jumping around). As you can probably tell, this is a big deal to me :tongue_smilie:

Julie

Edited January 20, 2012 by Julie in MN
Giving a specific example

[Donna A.]

I haven't used HOD. I've looked at the samples now & again, and I'm sure it's put together by lovely folks who poured their hearts into it. But one of the first HOD samples I looked at had kids studying Noah, and reading from Ephesians and Psalms.

 

I will just say that I have a priority in my own life: I don't want my kids to jump around in the Bible. My fear is that anyone could lead them towards believing anything, if they took the 66 books in the Bible and scrambled up all the verses. That's how *I* felt as a young person who hadn't read the Bible in order. One could even try to prove the Bible was false by using verses out of order.

 

MFW had me when they said that ECC used Matthew line-by-line. I actually would love it if they did that every year, but I know many folks want to change it up, so there are some years where Bible is done a bit differently. But I've used MFW from 3rd to 10th grade so far and I've never felt that my child was expected to read something from the Bible that he wasn't absolutely clear about where it was in the Bible, who said it, and what context it was in.

 

I also never felt in the 3rd-8th cycle that he was reading it without a parent's guidance (not guidance that a book told me to say, but guidance from my heart).

 

And finally, I've never felt that the Bible portion was something we could skip when using MFW.

 

But again, the most important thing for me when I look at a curriculum is reading the real Bible (not a summary), and reading it in its real context (not jumping around). As you can probably tell, this is a big deal to me :tongue_smilie:

Julie

 

I feel this way, too, and I have used/am using HOD. :tongue_smilie: Now don't get me wrong.... I *LOVE* the Bible as a stand-alone subject in HOD. I do. But at the points where it seems an attempt has been made to tie it with the history lesson, it seems like a stretch. I remember noticing something even in CTC where a verse that my dd was supposed to memorize didn't seem to make any sense for what we were studying. I've seen that in a couple of the younger years, too. I know some have said the same thing about some years of MFW, but I can see the "theme" each year and how it IS tied to either the history OR science. Which is what I wrote about in that post I linked earlier. Crystal mentioned it earlier, too.

 

Oh, okay, I will say this.... The Bible in EX1850 and 1850MOD *seems* like it doesn't connect with history because it's more "discipleship" based or "individual Bible study". I personally go back and forth on these two years, and I've had to really think it through. But when you get the worldview that MFW is teaching in those years through the history -- world events and how they affect America and vice versa, the Revolutionary and Civil wars, Reconstruction, humanism, world wars, Nazi-ism, Communism, Progressivism, etc.... all those "isms" and how they affect us today in the year 2012 (and our children in the future) .... then you see how necessary the personal discipleship is. What am I going to DO with all that Bible knowledge I've learned through the years? What's the point? What about all these other people that I've been learning about all these years? What do they have to do with me? What does God want me to do?

 

Someone mentioned the study of Proverbs in HOD's Bigger.... MFW does the same thing in their 1st grade program. Of course the Bible theme in MFW 1st is the fact that the Word of God is our foundation and all wisdom comes from it. It reminds me of Ps. 119:11, "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." If that isn't devotional, I don't know what is. ;)

 

Anyway, so I don't think I'd call the Bible in HOD an "add-on". Carrie is clearly trying to make connections there. But in order to make that connection, you almost *have* to do every single thing on the left side in order to cover the character traits and whatever else she's trying to bring out of it. Either way, the Bible definitely feels different in these two programs. Again, it probably comes down to personal preference. I can do JUST the Bible box in HOD and not miss anything.... or I can do JUST the history box in HOD and not miss anything. (I think Sonlight's is like that.) Maybe that's what some mean when they call it an "add-on". And that may be exactly what some people want! :) They're much more tied together in MFW.... to the point that it's hard to do one without the other, especially in K, 1st, ECC, CTG, and RTR. In Adventures the Bible is tied more with science than history. And in EX1850 and 1850MOD, as I said before, it's more discipleship and biblical worldview, which actually DOES connect with modern history since that's the world in which we live and serve. :)

[Dassah]

I guess I might as well jump in. :)

 

We've used HOD LHTH, LHFHG, Bigger, Preparing, CtC

We've used MFW Adv and started ECC.

 

I can tell you that the best years I've ever had homeschooling was MFW Adv and HOD Preparing for two different reasons. HOD Preparing because I loved the books, the drawing, the autopilot I could set my homeschool on. I think that's the benefit and disadvantage of HOD. It's totally open and go...I mean, completely. During that year, I needed to set homeschool on autopilot and deal with moving and family challenges. The year prior with MFW Adv, the guide allowed me to dig in, interact more (yes, it really did encourage that) with history. Maybe it was because book basket selections gave more ownership in the history, maybe it was because of the style of the guide, I'm not sure what...but, I dressed up like a pioneer, we pretended to be Pocahontas, we sent and received postcards from others, etc. Learning seemed more real and interactive...less forced.

 

Now, I LOVE HOD. It's been a top-notch education and we really don't have plans to leave it. But, I yearn for those MFW days when I was more goofy with my kids, weighed pumpkins in a bath and baked the pioneer meals as MFW guided. I'm pretty sure retention was better with history and the kids were more joyful YET my desire to have everything carefully organized (ie. books on the shelf (rather than library book basket), and a carefully guided writing program scheduled... keeps me going back to HOD.

 

uuufff! My transparency with this is helping me to understand why I have chosen one over the other.:001_huh: ...not always for what my kids would best learn from but from the needs of me and our family.

[abrightmom]

:bigear:

 

Great thread!

 

(I've used MFW 1st, Adventures, HOD Bigger and bits of Little Hands, Little Hearts, and Preparing.)

 

Donna A., your post is fantastic!

[jewel7123]

:bigear:

 

Donna A., your post is fantastic!

 

Yes, ladies, listen to Donna. She has done it all. (Multiple levels of MFW and HOD). She is the MFW/HOD queen. :D

[jewel7123]

Donna,

 

:001_smile: Thanks for sharing!

 

Do you have a short list of what CTC provided for you that MFW did not? Are they on equal ground in any way?

 

When you say "tedious" what do you mean? Do you mean that there is a lot to do, detailed vs. open ended assignments, or.... ? Based on your kids, what age/grade do you think CTC is best for? What about RTR? Why did you drop MFW for your 7th grader?

 

I've considered using MFW for Creation to Christ, thus avoiding the Guerber text and the painting (!), and then shifting over to HOD. However, I'd hate to miss the notebook for CTC with HOD. :001_smile:

 

 

 

Oh, and Donna, I'd love to hear your answers to these questions as well. :bigear:

[Donna A.]

Yes, ladies, listen to Donna. She has done it all. (Multiple levels of MFW and HOD). She is the MFW/HOD queen. :D

 

Aacck. No wonder I'm tired. :001_huh:

[Donna A.]

Oh, and Donna, I'd love to hear your answers to these questions as well. :bigear:

 

Well. It'll have to wait til after dinner. This kinda' stuff requires sustenance. :tongue_smilie: Plus I have to think about it some because I no longer have the HOD CTC manual.

[cbollin]

while donna is getting supper... and I'm watching my husband fix supper..

 

I have no idea how notebooking in HOD CTC works. But if one is doing MFW CTG, there is notebooking and I found it easy to use Draw and Write Through History alongside MFW to help with our pictures for our CTG (MFW) notebooking. MFW would schedule a page, and I'd open to Draw and Write and wow... how about that! Carylee had something there to draw.

 

cool! But I was really surprised at the end of CTG at how much we had in our notebooks with maps, summaries, charts, etc. I brought up the Draw and Write thing because I see HOD uses it.

 

I have a sentimental story to share about that.... I found Carylee's book (Draw and Write Through History) about 6 years ago and was excited to roll back to ancients to be able to use them. It was one of those things that year when I was nervous about "eek! what will I do in a few years when middle gal is ready for ancients? eek!" and it was a little treasure meeting Carylee and her family that year... There's just so many wonderful ways that God blesses each of us in what we do in homeschooling. That was one of the little things for me. sadly the pioneers and patriots book was not available this past semester.. but.. that's ok.

 

 

so..

we're having tacos tonight... what did you have Donna? :lol:

 

-crystal

[gratitude]

All that said, here's a post I wrote one time on how MFW incorporates both the CM style and a biblical foundation over the long term. I know I've posted this before, but I'm sure there are new readers in this thread and since the question of biblical "strength" came up, I might as well post it again: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4004#p66798

 

HTH someone. :)

 

Thank you Donna. The thread that you posted is incredible. God Bless.

[gratitude]

And finally, I've never felt that the Bible portion was something we could skip when using MFW.

 

But again, the most important thing for me when I look at a curriculum is reading the real Bible (not a summary), and reading it in its real context (not jumping around). As you can probably tell, this is a big deal to me :tongue_smilie:

Julie

 

I feel the same way Julie. My top priority for home schooling has been that my children have had a firm foundation in the Bible, from the Bible, and not taken out of context.

 

I also never felt that the Bible portion was something that we could skip in our programs with MFW. The program was the Bible portion, and then everything else seemed to some how revolve around it. Some of my favorite home school memories are sitting on the sofa in the morning and first doing MFWK Bible, then MFW1 Bible, and then Awana verses.

 

I liked very much what you, Julie, and Donna and Crystal have had to share on this thread. Thank you.

Edited January 23, 2012 by gratitude

[gratitude]

Again, it probably comes down to personal preference. I can do JUST the Bible box in HOD and not miss anything.... or I can do JUST the history box in HOD and not miss anything. (I think Sonlight's is like that.) Maybe that's what some mean when they call it an "add-on". And that may be exactly what some people want! :) They're much more tied together in MFW.... to the point that it's hard to do one without the other, especially in K, 1st, ECC, CTG, and RTR. In Adventures the Bible is tied more with science than history. And in EX1850 and 1850MOD, as I said before, it's more discipleship and biblical worldview, which actually DOES connect with modern history since that's the world in which we live and serve. :)

 

That is what I meant by an add-on. ;) I have missed the integration of MFW, the feeling of 'I can not skip Bible'; if I do nothing will make sense.

 

Carrie does tie it very much into character traits. But it also feels like each box stands alone. MFW is a unit study, so perhaps that is the difference. It all ties together.

 

Maybe it does come down to personal preference. One focuses more on character traits throughout (as far as I can tell since a Nov. start), and the other (MFW) has ...hmm.. David Hazel CDs come to mind. He wanted a curriculum that had a scope and sequence for Bible. He comments on a CD that everyone has a scope and sequence for math, LA, history,etc. Yet, the most important need for Christians is a scope and sequence for Bible. It is the reason, if I remember correctly, that they wrote a high school program. To ensure an intensive coverage of the entire Bible line by line before graduation.

 

Great thread. Thank you.

Edited January 21, 2012 by gratitude

[gratitude]

Oh, and Donna, I'd love to hear your answers to these questions as well. :bigear:

 

Me too! When you are rested enough to do it. :bigear:

[KeriJ]

I am shocked! You convinced me to get HOD, and now you're going to jump ship?!?

Kidding. ;)

 

I've had to do a lot of 'tweaking' so far this year. I had to really let go of my expectations and just accept that we'll be spending 2 years with these guides. And for Noah, I often end up flipping through 2-3 days at a time to see what will actually work for us for that day. I put a check mark on the boxes that we finish, and then I end up making up the rest of the 'day' at some other time.

 

Even with all of this jumping around, I am still happy with the program.

I am hoping that after we move and get settled and really get into school again that the 'days' work will go smoother for him than it did at the beginning.

 

So, I would say that if you like the content, then don't be so intimidated by the boxes or the 'days' - make it work for you.

 

Oh, and CLE math. ;)

 

No, not jumping ship! :) Just thinking. But I've honestly decided to stick with HOD. There's too much I love about it!

[hmschooling]

That is what I meant by an add-on. ;) I have missed the integration of MFW, the feeling of 'I can not skip Bible'; if I do nothing will make sense.

 

Carrie does tie it very much into character traits. But it also feels like each box stands alone. MFW is a unit study, so perhaps that is the difference. It all ties together.

 

Maybe it does come down to personal preference. One focuses more on character traits throughout (as far as I can tell since a Nov. start), and the other (MFW) has ...hmm.. David Hazel CDs come to mind. He wanted a curriculum that had a scope and sequence for Bible. He comments on a CD that everyone has a scope and sequence for math, LA, history,etc. Yet, the most important need for Christians is a scope and sequence for Bible. It is the reason, if I remember correctly, that they wrote a high school program. To ensure an intensive coverage of the entire Bible line by line before graduation.

 

Great thread. Thank you.

 

Funny....I thought just the opposite. MFW Bible felt very tacked on. It was a total separate study especially in the lower levels. HOD ties the Bible into every. single. lesson. The character focus is there, but it has a "I am in need of a Savior" focus as well as it grows to a less inward to a more outward look to share with others their need for a Savior as well. We can't just tell them they need saved, when we arent' living the life of being saved and showing it by our character. There's much less of a "study" feel to it in search of knowledge only, and much more of a relationship feel to it, with a great way of helping me help my child to build a relationship with Christ that is personal and deep. I want that inward focus on the heart for my kids, especially the youngers. It's so foundational to sharing the gospel, to know it, AND live it. The Bible is also part of the history, some of the storytime, science, music/hymns, and there's the actual Bible box. It ties into the character lesson which ties into the history with the discussion of hwo the historical figure possesses or lacks the character taught to us in God's word as well as comparisons and contrasts to biblical figures that possessed or lacked the character, and finally life application. Science loosely ties to history, and Bible is a strong focus there as well. YOu can do just this box or that box, but then you'd be missing so much. You can read just the history and still get tons of Bible, b/c it's woven all throughout and as you know, many people talk about CTC being so much Bible history that it's not separable...some say it's awesome and some say it's too much a Bible focus. I think it's perfect :) Bible is ALWAYS the center of HOD lessons. You can't get around it. Every subject has us bringing out our Bibles and looking up scripture...it's in our science notebooking, history notebooking, language arts, history, storytime, ...it's everywhere. If we didn't have our Bible, we couldn't do HOD.

[Julie in MN]

Funny....I thought just the opposite. MFW Bible felt very tacked on. It was a total separate study especially in the lower levels.

 

Scratching my head here... what level of MFW did you actually use?

 

K - God's creation and character lessons tied into 26 alphabet themes

1st - Trip through entire Bible, Bible reader for learning to read, copywork from Proverbs

Adventures - Names of Jesus, often ties into science, and many of the history activities

ECC - Reading line-by-line from beginning of New Testament, praying for the country you are visiting, reading Hero Tales and Missionary bios for each continent, copying character traits from the heroes...

 

Which level is the "lower level" you are thinking of that's totally separate?

 

Or are you meaning that there aren't random Bible verses to look up in each subject, kinda like BJU does at the bottom of some of their pages? Maybe it's more not the "kind" of Bible you were looking for, rather than Bible not being there or not being connected?

 

Julie

[hmschooling]

Scratching my head here... what level of MFW did you actually use?

 

K - God's creation and character lessons tied into 26 alphabet themes

1st - Trip through entire Bible, Bible reader for learning to read, copywork from Proverbs

Adventures - Names of Jesus, often ties into science, and many of the history activities

ECC - Reading line-by-line from beginning of New Testament, praying for the country you are visiting, reading Hero Tales and Missionary bios for each continent, copying character traits from the heroes...

 

Which level is the "lower level" you are thinking of that's totally separate?

 

Or are you meaning that there aren't random Bible verses to look up in each subject, kinda like BJU does at the bottom of some of their pages? Maybe it's more not the "kind" of Bible you were looking for, rather than Bible not being there or not being connected?

 

Julie

 

It just felt very disjointed to me. I can't really put my finger on it but it didn't seem to really mesh. Every level just had the separate bible plan, and it just didn't really float my boat at all and didn't really feel like it matched up. The bible studies themselves are great and it is certainly a strong christian program, just not quite meshed and interwoven IMHO as HOD's Bible is. And perhaps it's the focus as well. I didn't say Bible wasn't there though...to ME it felt very much tacked on. I don't know why, but HOD feels very much more fluid with Bible lessons and discussions.

 

I can assure you HOD is not as the post I replied to said...you can't just do this box or that. It's all together and the Bible is absolutely central to every single bit of it.

[gratitude]

It just felt very disjointed to me. I can't really put my finger on it but it didn't seem to really mesh. Every level just had the separate bible plan, and it just didn't really float my boat at all and didn't really feel like it matched up. The bible studies themselves are great and it is certainly a strong christian program, just not quite meshed and interwoven IMHO as HOD's Bible is. And perhaps it's the focus as well. I didn't say Bible wasn't there though...to ME it felt very much tacked on. I don't know why, but HOD feels very much more fluid with Bible lessons and discussions.

 

I can assure you HOD is not as the post I replied to said...you can't just do this box or that. It's all together and the Bible is absolutely central to every single bit of it.

 

I am the original post that you replied to. This is why I have tried to be very careful in saying my opinions of HOD on this thread. I have only used it since November, and it isn't long enough to know a program. My impressions though were that Bible wasn't in everything in the same way. Bible was a brief memory verse for 4 days and a few verses to look up on Friday in Beyond and Bigger; as well as a short devotional. I was used to more direct Bible contact. The books she uses are Christian. You are correct though that a single character trait is the 'theme' that ties History, Bible, etc. together, and that sometimes that theme includes additional verse to look up. Perhaps it comes down to you knowing HOD well, like I know MFW well. Thus, the programs we know well is where we know the strengths. My 3 months with HOD is not enough to know it, but is long enough to give strong impressions.

 

As for MFW. Did you use K, 1, or ADV?

 

MFW1 is Bible. It is all Bible. The parent reads the Bible story, the child reads the Bible reader, the child narrates the Bible story read, and then draws and summarizes in a Bible note book. It is Bible History from Genesis to Revelation. It is Bible.

 

MFWK - character traits, ADV - Names of Jesus that is also used in the science. The student reads from the Bible for themselves out-loud to mom. Hands on activities reinforce the Names of Jesus.

 

High school MFW goes through the ENTIRE Bible word for word for freshman and sophomore.

 

I do find it develops internal results. The Bible verses or study allow for God to speak to my children through His Word; which is my favorite part of the program. The discussions that Marie leads about the verses are in my experience in context and really dig into the meaning of the verses and how they apply to our lives and can lead to some great discussions with my children. Sometimes they are convicted in their characters from just hearing God's Word in context, and I do see spiritual and character growth in them. Sometimes knowing more of God's Word brings them closer to God. MFW definitely brings a lot of spiritual growth for the students and for mom too. It calls for people to live like Christ, and uses the Bible itself to teach Jesus to the little children. It also puts service in the program, which I like. As Apostle Paul said faith without works is dead. MFW is about leading the family to service, and to live ones faith out in a meaningful way. I don't think the choice of James as the entire book of the Bible for the student to memorize in RTR (or is it EXP1850?) is a coincidence. James is all about service, living as God has called Christians to live, faith, and how we are to use money, etc.

 

I have not used HOD like you have, so I do not know it like you do.

 

I mostly printed the things about MFW in case someone is reading that hasn't used either, so they have a better understanding of it.

 

I have decided to return to my original plan of MFW. :) It is a decision we each need to make for what is best for our own families.

Edited January 28, 2012 by gratitude

[Donna A.]

I don't think the choice of James as the Bible book to memorize in its entirety in RTR is a coincidence.

Oops, slight correction.... James is in Expl-1850. ;) Agree with you on everything else, though.

 

(MFW RTR covers a big chunk of the New Testament as it relates to Christ and the beginnings of the Church... Marie shows us all that directly from Scripture, including the command to "go ye into all the world". RTR spends the whole year doing this, not just a few weeks, with a few verses.)

 

Maybe that's why I keep struggling with HOD. Too many "other" books to read and boxes to interpret, so I feel like I have to "fight" to get the Scripture point across. The Bible seems almost like it's another subject mixed in there with lots of other subjects. I really like Sola Scriptura. Let the Word of God speak. :001_smile:

 

Look at it this way..... If one wanted to do JUST history and Bible from HOD, they'd have a lot more history than Bible, and the Bible box may or not be related to the history lesson that day, esp if you leave out some of the other boxes/subjects, it would be hard to see how they're related. If one wanted to do JUST history and Bible from MFW, they'd still have a lot of Bible reading, memorization, and real life application. (With the exception of Adventures, where science is mostly tied to the Bible rather than history.)

 

And I don't know, maybe some moms just like having Carrie "script out" what to say about the Bible, including what the child is supposed to pray. Maybe that's easier to do each day? "Read the box and do this...." Whereas some MFW moms like having Marie leave specific interpretation and explanation left up to the parents. It's probably a preference thing, I don't know. Every family is different in how they do Bible. :)

Edited January 28, 2012 by Donna A.

[Molly]

I must say I'm a bit confused about why people place such an importance on the bible in terms of schooling. As a new HOD user, I am using it as written, but as I would imagine with any curriculum, boxed or not, my own personality and knowledge will be mixed in there. I also believe that the bulk of my children's biblical education is actually going to come through family devotions where we discuss what we are reading, and at church, where we are all together learning the same thing. Surely bible learning isn't limited to school hours, and there is a lot more to living than being in the bible all the time. We can live the bible without being in it, meditation and the likes, and prayer. I also think hearing other people's opinions on things help us with our own interpretations of the bible. I don't believe everything anyone says to be, the bible is my truth and if it doesn't line up, I let my children know. The whole idea of HOD is to teach the children to think (well, that's what I have gathered since I have been looking into it) for themselves with Christ at the centre of their lives. We are here to guide them, discuss with them and pray with them.

[gratitude]

I must say I'm a bit confused about why people place such an importance on the bible in terms of schooling. Surely bible learning isn't limited to school hours, and there is a lot more to living than being in the bible all the time.

 

I am sorry that my placing an importance on the Bible in schooling confuses you.

 

We are from different countries, and most people from my own country of the USA don't even know or realize how much the Bible actually used to be the foundation of American public school education. The decline of Bible in the American schools though began long before the decision 50 years ago that completely removed Bible and prayer and God from the public school class rooms.

 

Did it impact America to have declining religion/Bible in the classroom, and then a final removal in the 1960s?

 

I would say yes. Some of the statistics would say yes. Educationally students given the exact same SAT tests had far lower scores in the 80's than their parents and grand parents who would have been in school prior to the final removal.

 

Another example would be the book the Federalist Papers that was widely read in the 1700s and written by some of the Founding Fathers of America. A complicated book to read. Senior law students, in recent years, groaned and complained that it was too hard to read when assigned the book by a law professor. Yet, it was a common book for New York farmers who had an 8th grade education in the 1780s. Does the removal of religion/Bible from education have an impact? In the 1700s the classrooms in America were loaded with Bible, prayer, and Bible history. Many thought it would be a disgrace to education to remove them from the classroom since the study of scripture teaches character, morals, and how to think. Certainly the moral degradation of America isn't entirely coincidence.

 

No, Bible isn't just for school time, but the information above is part of my reasons for wanting Bible integrated into our curriculum. I don't think it is only for Sundays or family devotional times. I think it is vital to learning how to think and an important part of their character development and education.

 

Yes, there is a lot more to living than being in the Bible all the time. Even though the Bible itself does say to meditate upon its scriptures day and night. I don't think MFW puts us in the Bible all the time. So perhaps some of us enthusiastic about MFW Bible didn't talk enough about the well rounded academics in it. Drawing begins in grade 1. Foreign language begins in Grade 2. Classical music is introduced in Kindergarten. Greek and Latin roots for Vocabulary are in the cycle. The appendix is full of great literature books to buy or check out at a library. History is more than just Bible History. Drawing is taught through 8th grade. Nature walks are once a week. Science is a part of the curriculum. Singapore math and language arts are added in. But another wonderful factor... I can combine my children. Doing 3 guides in HOD left little time for living. It left me often finishing school at 5. I like the fact that with MFW I can finish school by noon or 1 and take my kids to the park or the beach or a museum or have opportunities to do whatever God calls us to do.

 

The bottom line though is that we all have to choose what is best for our individual families. ;)

Edited January 31, 2012 by gratitude

[Donna A.]

I am sorry that my placing an importance on the Bible in schooling confuses you.

 

We are from different countries, and most people from my own country of the USA don't even know or realize how much the Bible actually used to be the foundation of American public school education. The decline of Bible in the American schools though began long before the decision 50 years ago that completely removed Bible and prayer and God from the public school class rooms.

 

Did it impact America to have declining religion/Bible in the classroom, and then a final removal?

 

I would say yes. Some of the statistics would say yes. Educationally students given the exact same SAT tests had far lower scores in the 80's than their parents and grand parents.

 

Another example would be the book the Federalist Papers that was widely read in the 1700s and written by some of the Founding Fathers of America. A complicated book to read. Senior law students, in recent years, groaned and complained that it was too hard to read when assigned the book by a law professor. Yet, it was a common book for New York farmers who had an 8th grade education in the 1780s. Does the removal of religion/Bible from education have an impact? In the 1700s the classrooms in America were loaded with Bible, prayer, and Bible history. Many thought it would be a disgrace to education to remove them from the classroom since the study of scripture teaches character, morals, and how to think. Certainly the moral degradation of America isn't entirely coincidence.

 

No, Bible isn't just for school time, but the information above is part of my reasons for wanting Bible integrated into our curriculum. I don't think it is only for Sundays or family devotional times. I think it is vital to learning how to think and an important part of their character development and education.

 

Yes, there is a lot more to living than being in the Bible all the time. Even though the Bible itself does say to meditate upon its scriptures day and night. I don't think MFW puts us in the Bible all the time. So perhaps some of us enthusiastic about MFW Bible didn't talk enough about the well rounded academics in it. Drawing begins in grade 1. Foreign language begins in Grade 2. Classical music is introduced in Kindergarten. Greek and Latin roots for Vocabulary are in the cycle. The appendix is full of great literature books to buy or check out at a library. History is more than just Bible History. Drawing is taught through 8th grade. Nature walks are once a week. Science is a part of the curriculum. Singapore math and language arts are added in. But another wonderful factor... I can combine my children. Doing 3 guides in HOD left little time for living. It left me often finishing school at 5. I like the fact that with MFW I can finish school by noon or 1 and take my kids to the park or the beach or a museum or have opportunities to do whatever God calls us to do.

 

The bottom line though is that we all have to choose what is best for our individual families. ;)

 

**** WILD APPLAUSE ****

 

Education isn't the only area that's been impacted. You can also look at politics, and even the churches themselves. Many churches barely open the Bible, IF at all. Of course, education, church life, personal life, politics.... these all tie in one to another, and I agree with Gratitude that the decline in ALL those areas, both morally and academically, are the result of having removed the Bible in virtually all areas of life. First, there was just a little tweaking here and there (McGuffey Readers, for example), and then by blatant and traumatic force (removing the Bible completely from public schools).

 

For those of us who are homeschooling for religion (Christian) reasons, we take literally EVERY part of the following verses from Deut. 6:4-9 --

 

“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

 

“And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.

You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates."

 

 

That sounds like 24/7 to me. ;) And Gratitude's post conveys what happens to a society when it's NOT done 24/7.

[Tenaj]

I'm feeling the need to jump in here again because this thread seems to be winding around to the "conclusion" that HOD isn't Bible-centered. IMHO nothing could be farther from the truth. I'm running three guides this year.

 

 

Little Hearts For His Glory has my 6yo being read to from the Family-Time Bible everyday for the first half of the year. Yes, straight through the Bible, chronologically! Just like MFW! Also, he's doing the emergent readers now (just starting) which has him reading to me through a beginning reader's Bible. Yes, straight through!

 

My 8yo is doing Bigger Hearts for His Glory. In that program the Bible centers on Proverbs: pulling character traits from American Heros and applying them in his own life by using Proverbs for memory work. Once a week, a separate passage from the Bible is read and discussed in detail as to how it applies to that character trait. Application to life straight from the Bible.

 

My 10yods is doing Preparing Hearts for His Glory. A sweep from the beginning of time (creation!) through history. We've been going back and forth between a book that shows in detail the big picture of God vs. Satan throught the Old Testament (Grandpa's Box) and a world history book (CHOW). Most of the time we read a chapter out of Grand's Box and then re-read the same story from the Bible for emphasis during Storytime. This has been a great chronological picture of God's plan for redeemption from the beginning. Now we are to the Greeks and so are reading how that time period fits in (just like MFW does with their history). For memory work, he is learning to worship God through the Psalms.

 

The above doesn't even include the character traits that we are constantly analyzing as we go through DITHOR.

 

Feeling a bit defensive about HOD as I read through this thread :) Like has been mentioned, everyone needs to pick what fits their family but I did want to clear up any idea that HOD is something less Biblical than MFW.

 

ETA: Also, I'm running three guides this year and we are usually done by 2:30 or 3 and that's usually because either one of the kids or I have been goofing off during the day. My biggest problem in running the three guides is the down time each kid has while they wait on me to work with them on the next thing.

Edited January 31, 2012 by JanOH

[teeniebeenie6]

Janet thanks for your insight. I am doing MFW but have looked at a bunch of HOD programs and they all seem very Christ centered. I am not quite sure why threads like this have to get attackish. Both programs are Christian, I think it is beautiful that there are so many different Christian curriculums available so we can each find one that fits our family.

[Donna A.]

Feeling a bit defensive about HOD as I read through this thread :) Like has been mentioned, everyone needs to pick what fits their family but I did want to clear up any idea that HOD is something less Biblical than MFW.

 

Janet thanks for your insight. I am doing MFW but have looked at a bunch of HOD programs and they all seem very Christ centered. I am not quite sure why threads like this have to get attackish. Both programs are Christian, I think it is beautiful that there are so many different Christian curriculums available so we can each find one that fits our family.

 

I don't think anyone was attacking anybody. :confused: This is a very long thread, and Gratitude just came back to update with her decision and the reasons for it. (The OP did ask about both programs.) And as I posted earlier in the thread, I've been trying to combine "the best of both" for some time now, but have realized why sticking with just the one would work best for us. (Basically agreeing with Gratitude on all that.) Then someone else asked why the emphasis on Bible in our kids' curriculum, so we explained our views on that topic.

 

Nobody was "attacking" HOD, though. I think just about everyone here who leans toward the MFW side of the fence (and even those who are on the fence) have acknowledged that there are many wonderful things about HOD. That would, in fact, be why the OP asked for experience from those who've used both programs, so we responded. :)