Withdrawing son from school....need help!

[HeyRenee]

My 9th grade son, soon to be 15, thinks high school is a frat party. To make a really long story really short, his father and I have decided pulling him out mid year and homeschooling is, yes a bit extreme....but the best solution to the problem. He is very smart, has an IEP for a gifted education, and has failing grades. Makes little sense. We have tried everything from grounding him to reasoning with him.... we are not completely foreign to homeschooling, as my husband was home schooled "all the way up". I will openly admit the goal is to get things back on track and then reenter school next year. However, if we get into this "thing" and see it's the "answer" and everyone is happy, I'm completely open to continuing.

 

I need advice. I have looked at curriculum until I'm sick. My husband was raised with ACE but feels we need something more challenging for my son, although I do like the simplicity of the program. What are your suggestions? I have looked at Saxon for math and thought I'd made that decision but then a friend mentioned Singapore or Jacobs (? Think that's it).....as for English and Lit.....I was thinking Wordly for vocab, but need grammar. I thought about following the novels being read at his school for the rest of the year?? I am also in need of Biology and a good Civics/History. Any suggestions, advice, stories that make me feel like this is going to work and get him back on track would be appreciated. Oh....and we are open to anything. It doesn't have to be strictly Christian or non Christian. Thank you!

[Lori D.]

Welcome to homeschooling high school! ((hugs)) and empathy for the particular reasons why. And VERY BEST wishes it will go smoothly! :)

 

 

Just a few random thoughts:

 

- re: curriculum choices

I think my first suggestion would be just continue to use whatever textbooks and materials he has already been using. Or, if that is not possible, a curriculum option that would probably be similar to what he has been using in the classroom, would be easy for you to implement as it includes all subjects, and would give you "back-up" support is K-12. Especially if you will only be homeschooling for one semester, you'll end up losing half the time to you both trying to transition to the new programs and trying to figure them out...

 

- Whatever you choose, you may want to avoid "computer-based" programs and go with things that will be much more interactive so that both you and DH will really be on top of seeing that he is getting the work done, since that sounds like that's been a problem. Have some very attractive "carrots" to hold out for him -- activities he would really like to get involved in or hobbies he enjoys -- and keep reminding him that as soon as the work is done each day, he can be enjoying those "carrots". ;)

 

- Also, if you can just use the books/materials he's already been using, that will cut down the transition time to "just" having to figure out how you will school at home, and will allow you a lot more time to focus on attitude, self-discipline, etc.

 

- To help with that attitude and self-discipline, seriously consider getting him into one of the great armed forces cadet programs -- you do NOT have to be interested in going into the military to reap big benefits from these programs and have loads of fascinating opportunities open up to you. I'd suggest Civil Air Patrol or Sea Cadets as the first two to look into. Another great opportunity to get involved in is the Congressional Award, which combines work in four program areas: Volunteer Public Service, Personal Development, Physical Fitness, and Expedition/Exploration.

 

- And if you do have him re-enter school in the Fall, have you considered re-entry at a different, more rigorous school? Perhaps DS has been bored, or had too much free time on his hands. Is there a school that has advanced classes in an area of his interest -- for example engineering, or theater, or whatever? What about a rigorous Classical private school or Parochial high school that would be more challenging academically, or have courses of especial interest to him?

 

- Perhaps once you bring him home, also enroll him in a rigorous academic extracurricular opportunity or special program (local, or online) that will help challenge him and also give him some social/school contact so he doesn't resent you and DH for bringing him home to "solitary confinement" -- something like FIRST Robotics, National Science Bowl, Christian Youth Theater, a summer camp at your local university for high school students to learn robotics, engineering, forensics, etc. -- whatever his interests might be.

 

- Consider getting his mind off of himself and on to considering others through weekly volunteer hours and community service with a local organization of his choice

(Red Cross, soup kitchen, tutor younger students at a local library, animal shelter, nursing home/elder care home, etc.)

 

- Perhaps you can incorporate something DS enjoys into the schedule that he *wouldn't* get to do if he were in school

(work on a novel; woodworking; dog training; auto mechanics; build his own computer; computer software project; compose music/songs; etc.)

 

- Or, have him take a course that allow DS to develop a personal interest, maybe even meet like-minded students who would encourage him in those

(Parks & Rec. or community class such as pottery, martial arts, etc.; or a course at the local community college)

 

- See if you can set up an internship / apprenticeship in a field of interest to DS, or set up some opportunities to "shadow" people in different career areas he might have an interest in.

 

- Get involved in a homeschool group.

(mentoring and support for YOU, and for him, fun activities such as student council, social events, volunteer opportunities and other socializing opportunities, educational activities such as a co-op, field trips, etc.)

 

- Perhaps get him involved in a public school extracurricular group or community group of some sort that will be a positive influence on him and a healthy outlet for him.

(Deka; Junior Achievement; Chess Club; Debate Team; Fiction Writing group or club; Society for Creative Anachronism or other History Reenactment group; book club; Junior Orchestra; Community Teen Theater or Youth Choir; Teen Pact or Youth & Government, Junior State of America, or Model UN; National Forensics or other speech/debate group; etc.)

 

- As with any teen boy, really try to keep him busy (without overload), and especially make sure he gets lots of regular strenuous exercise

(solo activities and chart his hours with the President's Challenge or the Congressional Award; a membership to a health club or local YMCA gym; lots of "pick-up" games of basketball, Ultimate Frisbee, etc.; or join a community or public high school after-school club or sports team)

 

 

BEST of luck, as you enter this new adventure! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Lori D.

[HeyRenee]

Thank you!!!! What great advice. I will certainly look into some of your ideas. I have to say, he's not in open, nightmarish rebellion....yet. We are making this decision to avoid the "yet"...!!!! He obeys the rules, doesn't sneak out, is usually respectful....it's just school that's posing the problem. I know that sounds weird, but it's true. His high school is a "magnet" and he's in the "gifted" courses. We could try another school, but the one he's in is ranked top 5 in our state and the Gifted curriculum is very advanced. He just seems completely unmotivated, unless it's his social life!! But even taking the "frat party" away didn't produce results. I will say, when we've called a truce and offered leniency and asylum if he would just level with us and tell us what's up...drugs? Depression? Bullying? Blah blah blah.....????? No. He has told us over and over he doesn't understand why he has to do so much work for things he already knows. Example: when he just didnt do a timeline in Civics, his reasoning was, "I learned all this last year; it's a waste of my time" and then proceeded to tell us all the dates and what happened! Now is that an acceptable attitude??? NO! And we told him one day his boss will tell him to do something he finds useless and he'll have to say "yes sir or ma'am"....but even so it's hard to argue when his points often make sense. I guess this illustrates one if the huge problems with public school....busy work! That and the fact that some kids need repitition to retain info and some don't, kids learn differently, etc. But they have 20 students....they can't individually teach each one. So, in this way, I think homeschooling will "fix" that issue for him. If he masters the subject matter, he moves on. If he's having trouble, we can work on it. None of the busy work. Of course, there are other things he says, but 8 times out of 10 it has something to do with "I already learned that."

 

As for keeping his texts, I'm not sure that's an option? And even if I could...I am not a teacher! I wouldn't know what to do without guidance. I'm hoping to find something that we can set goals and he can work at his own pace. I have a math teacher who has agreed to meet with him 1-2 times a week to make sure we are on the right path, so I'm excited about that. I also failed to mention we are starting 9th grade over....we aren't just "continuing." I hope to pull in some totally new material like biology, fine arts, different history studies, architecture, stuff that I know interest him and would be new material. Of course, we will do the courses required by our state too, and the part he's already learned we can move through quickly. I totally agree about staying away from online courses. Thanks again for your insight.

[Teachin'Mine]

If he really knows the material being taught, then it sounds like even this gifted program isn't advanced enough for where he's at, unless they allow him to accelerate. I'd second the suggestion of college courses, especially in his areas of interest, or if that's not possible, then let him self-study for AP classes. That should give him the goal of doing well on the AP test and I'm sure will require that he work hard in order to learn the material.

 

Even if your local community college won't allow him to take classes this year, I would ask them if he could take their placement test. That will give you some idea of where he's at academically and whether he's truly bored with his current courses, or whether it's something else. Taking the ACT test could also be a good way to gauge where he's at, but with having to register and wait for the results, the other would be more immediate feedback.

 

I hope it's a great semester for both of you. :)

[HeyRenee]

Hmmm. I am not sure when the local CC would allow him to take courses. That's an excellent idea. I will ask.

 

As for the school offering independent study or really any other solution outside of the box.....we live in Louisiana....feel free to google--it's pretty depressing where we fall on the education ladder!!!! Somewhere between the first step and the dirt under the pavement! ;) Though he has an IEP guaranteeing a "gifted" education, it is hardly "individualized"....it's cookie cutter. And like I said, he is in one of the best programs in the state...

 

And to be fair, this is something with him. I can't blame the school...or the teachers....they do the best they can within the confines put on them by the state and parish. He's making bad choices. And honestly, homeschooling has been "nagging" my mind for a few years. We have other (younger) children and I have often wondered if just taking the plunge and homeschooling wouldn't be best. I guess this will be a good test run!

 

Thanks again. Have a great day.

[Janice in NJ]

It sounds like your son is ready to prove what he knows.

 

I would send him to the local library to search for test prep books.

 

ACT

SAT

SAT II Biology

SAT II US History

SAT II Math

SAT II Literature

 

Any subjects he thinks he has mastered.

 

Have him take the practice tests under supervision and under timed conditions.

 

Three I would heartily recommend:

http://www.amazon.com/Official-SAT-Study-Guide-2nd/dp/0874478529/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325859795&sr=8-1

 

http://www.amazon.com/Real-ACT-3rd-Prep-Guide/dp/0768934400/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325859814&sr=1-3

 

http://www.amazon.com/Official-Study-Guide-Subject-Tests/dp/0874479754/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325859841&sr=1-1

 

Have him play around for a bit. It will help him (and you) see what he knows and doesn't know. If he's assessing the situation correctly, he'll ace them. Then he can take them for real and prove to the world that he's nailed this stuff and high school is a waste of his time. If he doesn't nail them, he might be more willing to work to master this material.

 

In either case, you will have a starting point. Advanced kids can do college-level work in high school. It's completely possible. But often kids just think things are a waste of their time. Like I said, in either case you will both know what you're working with.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[Brenda in MA]

might be some courses from "The Great Courses" on DVD. This company hires the best college professors from around the country and brings them to their studio to record lecture courses. They offer hundreds of courses on everything from art, music, architecture, and literature to engineering, physics, science, and math.

 

thegreatcourses.com

 

Some folks here use these courses as part of high school coursework, others use them as extra enrichment resources. Personally, I've done both. We just finished watching two courses on the Constitution and our government as part of my son's government credit. We've also got several of their courses on Physics which he watches in his spare time because it is an area of interest for him. Since they're not structured "courses" with exams, you might use one as part of an elective. I could see something like this giving him the higher-level input he seems to be craving.

 

Your library might have some of these courses so you can get a feel for them. They tend to be expensive when not on sale, but they regularly have sales where the prices are 70% off, and you can often find them used. Personally, I'm looking forward to watching the course I got for Christmas called, "Understanding the World's Greatest Structures", which concerns civil engineering/architecture and has fantastic reviews.

 

I also agree with Janice -- let him take some of the "official" marker tests like the SAT/ACT, and if he does well, that might help guide you/justify a different path for his education.

 

Best wishes as you help him chart a path forward!

Brenda

[Sebastian (a lady)]

If he really knows the material being taught' date=' then it sounds like even this gifted program isn't advanced enough for where he's at, unless they allow him to accelerate. I'd second the suggestion of college courses, especially in his areas of interest, or if that's not possible, then let him self-study for AP classes. That should give him the goal of doing well on the AP test and I'm sure will require that he work hard in order to learn the material.

 

Even if your local community college won't allow him to take classes this year, I would ask them if he could take their placement test. That will give you some idea of where he's at academically and whether he's truly bored with his current courses, or whether it's something else. Taking the ACT test could also be a good way to gauge where he's at, but with having to register and wait for the results, the other would be more immediate feedback.

 

I hope it's a great semester for both of you. :)[/quote']

 

You can do a full practice SAT online at the college board website and get immediate feedback.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It sounds like your son is ready to prove what he knows.

 

I would send him to the local library to search for test prep books.

 

ACT

SAT

SAT II Biology

SAT II US History

SAT II Math

SAT II Literature

 

Any subjects he thinks he has mastered.

 

Have him take the practice tests under supervision and under timed conditions.

 

Three I would heartily recommend:

http://www.amazon.com/Official-SAT-Study-Guide-2nd/dp/0874478529/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325859795&sr=8-1

 

http://www.amazon.com/Real-ACT-3rd-Prep-Guide/dp/0768934400/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325859814&sr=1-3

 

http://www.amazon.com/Official-Study-Guide-Subject-Tests/dp/0874479754/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325859841&sr=1-1

 

Have him play around for a bit. It will help him (and you) see what he knows and doesn't know. If he's assessing the situation correctly, he'll ace them. Then he can take them for real and prove to the world that he's nailed this stuff and high school is a waste of his time. If he doesn't nail them, he might be more willing to work to master this material.

 

In either case, you will have a starting point. Advanced kids can do college-level work in high school. It's completely possible. But often kids just think things are a waste of their time. Like I said, in either case you will both know what you're working with.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

That's a grand idea.

 

If he really does have a great head for names and dates, then perhaps he could read and study for a couple AP exams this spring. I think there is still time to set this up with schools offering the exams.

 

This might be a way for him to demonstrate mastery of the course topics he was enrolled in in the high school as well as encouraging him to delve deeper.

[Teachin'Mine]

You can do a full practice SAT online at the college board website and get immediate feedback.

 

Yes - good point! And you can also get the College Boards' official SAT test prep book and administer one of the tests yourself - using the same time limits and all - and get a score which will give you an idea too.

[speedmom4]

If I was in your situation I would want to get my ds on board and let him design a course of study. What is he passionate about? Obviously he needs to complete certain requirements for graduation. He would definitely need guidance from you but letting him make some decisions might motivate him.

 

God Bless,

Elise in NC

[Ellie]

It is not uncommon for very bright children to get poor grades in school.

 

Although I'd have no qualms about withdrawing him, you should know that it can be very difficult to get schools to accept credits earned at home.

 

I would also suggest investigating your community college.

 

And I wouldn't bother trying to get the texts he's been using at school. You already know those are epic fails, right?

 

You might check into Clonlara, one of the long-time supporters of homeschooling. They are masters at helping children figure out what they want to learn and how they want to learn it, and then helping with implementing and documenting the course of study. (If you decided you liked Clonlara, you'd still have to comply with LA's homeschooling laws.)

[curlylocks]

It is not uncommon for very bright children to get poor grades in school.

 

Although I'd have no qualms about withdrawing him, you should know that it can be very difficult to get schools to accept credits earned at home.

 

I would also suggest investigating your community college.

 

And I wouldn't bother trying to get the texts he's been using at school. You already know those are epic fails, right?

 

 

:iagree:

 

If you are even thinking that your son might go back to PS next year, I would talk with the school about what they want to see as far as classes go and if they will accept the credits you assign. (Ask specific questions and get the answers in writing. ;) )

 

A friend has had a terrible experience getting the PS to accept the courses/credits her daughter earned. If they put her daughter back in PS, she would lose 2 years worth of credit. :confused:

 

In our state, there is a program that allows high school juniors and seniors to take 2 college-level classes each year at the CC tuition free. (We only pay course fees and for books.)

 

Welcome -- and best wishes.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It is not uncommon for very bright children to get poor grades in school.

 

Although I'd have no qualms about withdrawing him, you should know that it can be very difficult to get schools to accept credits earned at home.

I would also suggest investigating your community college.

 

And I wouldn't bother trying to get the texts he's been using at school. You already know those are epic fails, right?

 

You might check into Clonlara, one of the long-time supporters of homeschooling. They are masters at helping children figure out what they want to learn and how they want to learn it, and then helping with implementing and documenting the course of study. (If you decided you liked Clonlara, you'd still have to comply with LA's homeschooling laws.)

 

 

In the bolded above, you are making a warning about potential difficulty moving from school to home and back to school, right?

 

I didn't want the OP to get the impression that college admissions were necessarily more difficult for homeschoolers. Though all the the responsibility for things like transcripts and course descriptions falls on the parents rather than on a guidance office (for good or bad).

[Janice in NJ]

Home schooled kids can easily get into many (most?) colleges.

 

However, I have heard that it is more challenging to get high schools to accept credits earned at home. In other words, if your child completes Algebra, Biology, English 9, History 9, and other courses at home, you are going to want to make SURE that your high school will allow those credits to transfer back INTO the high school system. THAT is not as clear-cut.

 

I suspect that's because the system frowns upon what the OP is trying to do: You take your kid out of school mid-year because he is failing, and then you home school him and claim that he has earned good/passing grades for 9th grade. Now you want to re-insert him into the system and you would like credit on his high school transcript for the A's that he earned at home. (Most high schools are not going to sign off on/rubber-stamp grades they can not verify.) I suspect that the high school is going to want some kind of proof, and I do not believe that there is a legal precedent unless there is one on a state-by-state basis.

 

I would strongly encourage the OP to discuss this with the school and reach an agreement ahead of time if you suspect that you are going to want to re-enroll your son as a 10th grader. Surprises are not fun.

 

Peace,

Janice

[jhschool]

If your son is gifted do the

Art of Problem Solving for math.

They have enough that you can do

it all the way through High School.

They also have online classes.

 

There is lots of curriculum out there.

 

There are also good online classes.

 

What is your son going to study in college?

That determines a lot of the class choices and

books.

[Daisy30]

I am doing the same thing right now with my 9th grade daughter. She was attending a private school and I am taking her out for this semester and probably putting her back in for 10th grade.

I would contact the school. I am considering using Sunlight, MFW, or TOG. She will take biology at the school. We are going to use ALEKS for math and Rosetta stone for Spanish.

I e-mailed administration with my curriculum and assesment. They will look it over and get back to me if it will meet for credits.

I think assessment will be there main concern. You will need documentation so he can get credits.:):) But I am VERY new to this.

[SunD]

I'm PMing you.

[Ellie]

In the bolded above, you are making a warning about potential difficulty moving from school to home and back to school, right?

Yes, that's right. Sorry if I confused the issue. :-)

 

I didn't want the OP to get the impression that college admissions were necessarily more difficult for homeschoolers. Though all the the responsibility for things like transcripts and course descriptions falls on the parents rather than on a guidance office (for good or bad).

Oh, yes, homeschoolers have a great track record of college acceptances.

[HeyRenee]

Oh wow guys. Thanks so much! I can't begin to explain how much your input helps! I am not "forum savvy" and have no idea how to respond to you all separately, so I'll just respond in general. But know I've learned from each and every post.

 

First, I'm not doing this to "save his grades"....I think what he already has stays even if pull him out before semester end? I'm doing this in an attempt and get the situation under control before we are in so deep we can't dig out. That said, I see what you mean about how it will appear to the school. I had not thought about that. I figured as long as I could prove he did the coursework and he passed the course exams administered by the State we'd be fine. I guess I need to talk to the school. I haven't yet because I know this is not something the district exactly embraces......I was advised to not tell them my intentions; to get curriculum set and then go in and show them my plans, write the withdrawal letter to school and school board, and set his last day for a few days later??

 

I envy your school district Heigh Ho!! That would never happen here!!!! Thanks for the info on the talent sites. I'll look into that.

 

As for college and homeschooling, my husband had no problems at all. Did fabulous on the ACT and was offered many scholarships. He has several siblings all of whom were very successful after homeschooling. Doctor, architect, engineer.....of course there is the black sheep....but not because the opportunity wasn't there!!!!

 

I will research my parish's requirement for high school reentry. I have a friend whose child sat out 8th grade due to elite sports....but I believe he fell under homebound?? He entered the public school system in 9th grade.

 

Thanks again guys. This place has been a godsend.

Edited January 7, 2012 by HeyRenee
Sorry for typos. iPad typing isn't the easiest...

[HeyRenee]

SunD...thanks. I'll check my inbox when I get home! :)

[Hunter]

Not all gifted children do well in school, for many, many reasons. Academics are not as important as character development, mental health and work ethics. Sometimes a family has to choose a less rigorous academic program that mom is capable of teaching, to be able to cater to more important things.

 

If school doesn't work out, I recommend using American School correspondence school followed by a light schedule of early entrance to the local junior college; mixed with a lot of hard physical labor, a hobby and more time with stable adults instead of equally lost peers.

 

Gifted children are first and foremost children. Like all children they sometimes have difficulty in school and life. Being gifted doesn't make them immune to typical teens struggles. They have the same rights to have these struggles dealt with, as a less academically advanced child.

 

School and academics are very important, but not always the first priority in a child's life. All choices should not be made with academics as the 1st priority.

 

Good luck! :-)

[kiana]

You mentioned Saxon. If he gets frustrated and shuts down when being asked to do something he finds trivial or already knows how to do, I would strongly recommend against it.

 

For math, if you decide to keep him out, I'd get him to look at the art of problem solving website -- there are samples -- pick the course he's in and see if that's something he's interested in. If he doesn't like that idea, there are other courses which are also far more suited to a strong and intuitive thinker.

 

For science/social science, I'd see what HE is interested in ... you're trying to revive his interest in learning. He might like the idea of doing some APs so he can place out in college -- you don't have to stick to the state sequence. Some that are single-semester courses at the university are microecon, macroecon, american government, comparative government, human geography, environmental science.

[choirfarm]

Yes, my sil is an assistant principal and gets SO irritated at people who take them out when they are failing, put them back in, take them back out. Your high school may require your son to take THEIR end of the year test on let us say Algebra before awarding credit at their school.

Home schooled kids can easily get into many (most?) colleges.

 

However, I have heard that it is more challenging to get high schools to accept credits earned at home. In other words, if your child completes Algebra, Biology, English 9, History 9, and other courses at home, you are going to want to make SURE that your high school will allow those credits to transfer back INTO the high school system. THAT is not as clear-cut.

 

I suspect that's because the system frowns upon what the OP is trying to do: You take your kid out of school mid-year because he is failing, and then you home school him and claim that he has earned good/passing grades for 9th grade. Now you want to re-insert him into the system and you would like credit on his high school transcript for the A's that he earned at home. (Most high schools are not going to sign off on/rubber-stamp grades they can not verify.) I suspect that the high school is going to want some kind of proof, and I do not believe that there is a legal precedent unless there is one on a state-by-state basis.

 

I would strongly encourage the OP to discuss this with the school and reach an agreement ahead of time if you suspect that you are going to want to re-enroll your son as a 10th grader. Surprises are not fun.

 

Peace,

Janice

[readinmom]

I'm not sure what state you are in. Be careful to investigate how well your district supports homeschool before sharing your plans with them. When oldest ds was going to take enrichment math course, it was a "take it with us our it doesn't count" situation. Sometimes the less they know, the better. Remember, it was their school that helped produce the failing grades.

 

Also, if you plan to return, it is no guarantee that it won't happen again. You have to find out the reasons why this happened, address the problems (as hard as it may be) and be realistic. Sometimes a year or two of maturity is a great thing. I've seen kids that were lost their 9th/10th grade years only to come back as a completely different person. They will admit they weren't ready for the seriousness of high school.

 

I'm not trying to be negative, just honest. I've been there, done that with younger ds in middle school. It wasn't as much the grades as it was his loss of desire to learn. They sucked it right out of him...