tntgoodwin Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 My DD5 is almost complete with Math Mammoth level 1A, and we are considering getting 1B... She says she enjoys doing math. However, dw is concerned that she isn't actually learning math that well. She still adds using her fingers, for example... any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) For primary math education, I agree with the idea that children generally begin to understand numbers and operations first in a physical and concrete way ( using manipulatives), then in a pictorial (pictures)and finally in an abstract (written numbers) way. A five year old who is adding and subtracting using her fingers (an awesome math manipulative) is entirely developmentally appropriate. As for Math Mammoth, it's a solid series, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a younger child. I've used 1a and 1b and I don't think it's visually appealing or formatted in a way that makes the material accessible to new writers. I would look into Right Start A or Singapore 1a or MEP. Some people love Miquon, you might check that out. Edited December 30, 2011 by Momling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grace'smom Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Can you look at 1B and see what you think about it? We're using it and my daughter is doing just fine- no issues with format or visual appeal. If it's working for you keep it up - on the other hand, if you're going to switch now is a good time to do it (before you have an issue of gaps)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertmum Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I was about to ask a very similar question so I will be following this thread closely. It would be interesting to hear from those who think MM is enough and appropiate for youngsters and those who don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lailasmum Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Could she need one of the manipulative based maths programs, math U see or something? We came in the oposite direction, from using heavily manipulative based ones which my dd just doesn't seem to get, over to Math Mammoth where its more in her head, and she seems to understand. We have just finished the last page of 1A today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You could give her some manipulatives to work with. The first chapter of MM1B demonstrates the use of the abacus, so you could have her continue to use it for math after that chapter is over. C-rods and base-10 blocks are also easy to add to MM (I use C-rods with my 5 year old, who is doing SM EM K). It sounds completely normal for a 5 year old though. I wouldn't expect a 5 year old to have math facts memorized yet. MM expects them to memorize +/- facts by the end of the 2nd grade books, IIRC. Also, are you doing the games as suggested? That will help. Basically, she just needs to keep practicing those facts, which she will in 1B and 2A. (my son used MM1A-4A and part of 4B, and he doesn't count on fingers ;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 At that age, I would take a break and do Miquon orange or rs games or something. We kept math pretty light at that age because I saw that the kids were still finger counting and not moving to the abstract yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAutumnOak Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 My ds is 5 and doing Math Mammoth 1A...We are going to continue with MM, but we are only doing 1A this year...We will continue with 1B next year...I planned it so we are only doing 1 page a day about 3 or 4 days a week...What I intend to do the rest of the time is play the games that are suggested on the information sheets in MM, like "Some Went Hiding" and things like that...We are going slow at this point and doing a lot of review until he gets to the point where he is able to think about addition and subtraction more abstractly... I would suggest that you continue MM, but take a break from it for the rest of this year and just review what you have done so far...Get blocks and use those to help her "see" what is happening when she adds and subtracts...If she wants to do a worksheet, you can also use the worksheet generator put out by Math Mammoth and found here...There is an endless supply of free practice worksheets for different grade levels, each page also has an answer key you can print out... You can always start MM1B next school year...That is what we are planning to do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 One thing I have learned in my several years of teaching math to my kids is that I don't always expect them to completely get something the first time it's taught. Especially with my son, he might have a vague understanding of something and be able to accomplish the problems he is presented with but not really have an in-depth grasp of the material. This used to bother me until I realized that often he just needs time to cogitate on the material for it to condense and become applicable for him. I would say two things: 1) counting on fingers does not necessarily indicate a lack of understanding and 2) the math strategies taught in MM are highly developmentally based. A five year old just might not be cognitively mature enough to consolidate what Maria is teaching. This means nothing about how bright the child is, only where the child is developmentally. Were it me, I would go back through the 1A tests and see how the child does. If she can do the problems (using fingers or however she accomplishes the problems), all is good. If she struggles, then she's probably not ready for 1B. Give it six months and try again. My personal impression is that MM1 is not a good fit for K math even though it's an outstanding program (my kids are in 3A and 4B). Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertmum Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 A five year old just might not be cognitively mature enough to consolidate what Maria is teaching. This means nothing about how bright the child is, only where the child is developmentally. Were it me, I would go back through the 1A tests and see how the child does. If she can do the problems (using fingers or however she accomplishes the problems), all is good. If she struggles, then she's probably not ready for 1B. Give it six months and try again. My personal impression is that MM1 is not a good fit for K math even though it's an outstanding program (my kids are in 3A and 4B). Tara Maria herself suggests using something else for K (she even mentions Singapore math for this stage). I always thought 1A and 1B are for first grade and above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gracyomalley Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Having used MM from 1A through 6A with various kids, as well as multiple other programs at different times, I would still say that MM is the best bang for the buck...and believe me, if you stick with it your kid will be EXCELLENT at mental math...although you may find, as some have suggested, that you have to slow the pace...it is very conceptual compared to other programs... My 7 year old did MM 1 A and B AFTER most of saxon 2 - when he was 5. Although there was much less shear memory work, the MM was a much better way to actually LEARN number relations...I never used Singapore with any kids, but suspect it wouldn't be much different than the MM that we have and like.. If your daughter is liking it and doing well, don't worry about the finger thing...it will pass as she works on tens, etc later...if 1B or later books get too much, then slow down and do something else for a while (we have been doing TT 4 for FUN now, with the above child, while he finished MM 3B....the pre-algebraic reasoning in MM4 has me hesitant to keep going so fast with him, and TT gives him an easy 15 minute 2 lessons a day, with the satisfaction of 100%! on his own....I'm not worried about him "slowing down", with 2 kids hitting algebra well before high school, I know this guy will get there early too - and MM has been an excellent resource for us! I would add that my oldest still uses his fingers with adding and subtracting sometimes...but is thriving in pre-algebra...sure, it slows him down some, but he is super accurate...I think its just the way he thinks...he had no trouble memorizing multiplication...just likes to double check those subtraction problems... Erin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'll be interested in following this thread. My DD will be 7 in a few days and just finished 1a. She also uses her fingers frequently. We've also used c-rods and flashcards to try to get the facts better. She can do some facts without fingers but still needs them for some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Mine only recently stopped using their fingers;). But seriously, very normal for 5 yo to use fingers.... please don't discourage her. Using manipulatives helps to "cement" the math in her brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 I was kind of thinking it is a normal progression. Glad to see several of you agree. Thanks everyone! She does use manipulatives occasionally. She does get the answers mostly right too, so we will probably continue on with 1B, going only as fast as she wants. We started her younger with it, because she could do all the K stuff that MM recommended she knows before starting 1A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 FWIW, I'm doing the same thing with my K-5 dd, just doing mm at her pace, as often as she asks to do it (which is pretty often). The very, very best thing I've read about math teaching and learning so far (and I've read a lot in the past few months ;)) is Math Power by Patricia Clark Kenschaft. She goes through all of the learning stages (she calls them "meadows") and talks about the conceptual leaps that occur in moving from one to the other. It has really helped me understand dd5's behaviors around numbers and counting, and to see that what she's doing in terms of manipulatives is perfectly normal (she counts her fingers by tapping each, one by one, on her nose :D!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_midori Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I am using 1a with my ds5 right now and have 1b waiting - however, I am using it as a supplement and doing my "main teaching" out of RightStart A (which I LOVE and used with ds7). I like MM for the review & the independent factors, but I don't particularly care for it for actual teaching. For fingers - I remind mind to just use his abacus anytime he is using his fingers. I think it is a hard habit to break and I don't want him to get into it (he tends to get obsessive about things and set in his ways, so I have to cut things off at the pass!). The abacus will be more efficient as we get to higher numbers, as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmschooling Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 For primary math education, I agree with the idea that children generally begin to understand numbers and operations first in a physical and concrete way ( using manipulatives), then in a pictorial (pictures)and finally in an abstract (written numbers) way. A five year old who is adding and subtracting using her fingers (an awesome math manipulative) is entirely developmentally appropriate. As for Math Mammoth, it's a solid series, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a younger child. I've used 1a and 1b and I don't think it's visually appealing or formatted in a way that makes the material accessible to new writers. I would look into Right Start A or Singapore 1a or MEP. Some people love Miquon, you might check that out. She updated with more writing space! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmschooling Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Also, make sure you are making good use of the fun links to interactive math online. The games are a lot of fun and great for reinforcing concepts and getting the facts practice in as well. My kids really enjoy playing them. I'm in the process of switching BACK to Math Mammoth from Singapore...we're all excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5LittleMonkeys Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I started using MM1A with ds5 at the beginning of the year but after about 1\4 of the way through it I realized he was getting very bored with it and he wasn't learning how to apply math to daily activities. He thought math was just something you do on a worksheet. I'm using the TOC for level 1 as a type of spine though. We draw math pictures and stories out on the board, use tons of manipulatives and the abacus, use things around the house and use household events as math lessons. "We need 7 plates, 6 forks and 1 spoon...how many things is that all together...oh wait the baby needs a bowl instead of a plate, can you figure that out?" We moved from doing math for 15 minutes a day to doing math all day. I figure there is plenty of time in his future to sit down and drill math with worksheets, right now I want him to learn how fun it can be and how we use it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 DD is using Miquon orange with both c-rod and abacus, although she prefer using her fingers. she counts up when number pass 10.. still prefer fingers. Miquon is really a fun program, especially for younger kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewpeaceful Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 We have used MM 2-5A thus far with 2 kids and still truckin'. Being a former engineering/math/computer geek, I would say the program is a great foundation, especially when coupled with Singapore Primary Word Problems. (I do 1 level down of word problems than the level they are working on in MM so they focus on the application of the math, not the math itself.) Anyway, with that said... I agree with several of the PPs. Given how young, nope, not concerned about counting on the fingers. They will eventually give up the fingers. I'd be more concerned if the dc was 10 and still counting with fingers. :) Now, to buck the trend: I LOVE BJU math for the younger grades. It is colorful. Inviting. Concrete - which is how kids that age think. Not a fan at the older levels but K-1st or 2nd for sure. I had pushed my youngest too fast using Singapore back in the day and had to double back and solidify. BJU did that for her AND gave her a lot of extra practice for solidifying those concepts that she had been introduced to. You do NOT need the TM for BJU math at this age. Just grab the workbook for the grade you want. Mardels sells them and is having their biannual 20% off education sale this weekend on January 7th. The sale is online and in the store. HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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