DS thinking of changing majors - Chemistry?

[JFSinIL]

Sophomore son got the only A in his level 2 Organic Chem class, and when I picked him up from school Saturday he announced that he was most likely changing from Bio to Chem as his major. A chem. prof helped him figure how to do this and still get out before his four years are up (merit scholarship at a LAC - there is NO WAY to pay for an extra term or two.)

 

So - tell me about chemistry as a major. Can grads get jobs with just a four-year degree, or what sort of advanced degrees are common, etc. This kid started out History major, then Bio...teased me with talk of changing to Philosophy for a spell...now seems to have found his niche.

 

Med. school never was much of an option as a Bio major - he is not that much of a people person to be a doctor.

[Brenda in MA]

Can you have him look into potential jobs at the career center at his college? Have him find out if Chem majors are getting hired with a BS degree and what jobs they usually get.

 

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking jobs like lab technician for a hospital, medical research, biotech, chemical manufacturing... things like that. If he wants to look at grad schools, he might get his MS or PhD in chemistry. The PhD might lead to jobs like heading up a research group at a company or government lab.

 

Grad schools in science/engineering fields often have research assistantships and/or fellowships associated with them. If you get a good one, you will get free tuition and they will pay you a living allowance while you work on your grad degree. If he might be interested in this route, he should talk to the Chem professors at his school to find out what grad schools are good for his interests.

 

He could also go into teaching with a BS and some additional education courses. He'd have to check the teacher certification requirements in your state. With a PhD, he could become a college professor.

 

If he likes the applications of Chemistry, he could go into an MS or PhD program in Chemical Engineering with a BS in Chemistry, but he might need to take a few prereqs that he's missing. I had a friend that went this route, and it took her an extra year to get the MS in Chem Eng with a Chemistry BS due to the prereqs she needed.

 

I'm glad to hear that he's found an area of interest. Best wishes to him in mapping out the next step(s).

 

Brenda

[jennynd]

In general, BS will not enough for any science/engineering major.

The good thing is, it is usually easy for science/engineering major to find a job and a lot opportunity to get MS/PhD

If they get a job offer after graduate, the company usually offer tuition reimburse if the employee want to to MS/PhD. My company even offer our own courses and offer MS degree from universities who have agreement with the company upon they finish the courses.

many university offers scholarship for MS/PhD students for science/engineering major also. Both Hubby and I had scholarship while in grade school. So, You won't have to worry tuition going into MS/PhD

[memphispeg]

The chem majors at my LAC who did not go to med/grad school right away went into pharmaceutical companies...into drug development and testing. Some went to big oil and chem. companies. These companies financed their grad. training after they worked for them for a couple of years.

Being a "green" eco-minded person, I'd have him look at sustainability subjects. I'm sure that there is a huge future in that for chemists.

[Teachin'Mine]

Sophomore son got the only A in his level 2 Organic Chem class, and when I picked him up from school Saturday he announced that he was most likely changing from Bio to Chem as his major. A chem. prof helped him figure how to do this and still get out before his four years are up (merit scholarship at a LAC - there is NO WAY to pay for an extra term or two.)

 

So - tell me about chemistry as a major. Can grads get jobs with just a four-year degree, or what sort of advanced degrees are common, etc. This kid started out History major, then Bio...teased me with talk of changing to Philosophy for a spell...now seems to have found his niche.

 

Med. school never was much of an option as a Bio major - he is not that much of a people person to be a doctor.

 

Wow - congratulations to him!!!!

 

I'd ask him to get this chemistry professor's help in exploring his employment options so he can try to tailor his courses accordingly. I like the suggestion on going into alternative fuels, sustainability, etc..

[Lasthenia]

Environmental science has many opportunities a chem or bio graduate can explore.

[Gwen in VA]

1) I strongly second the suggestion of visiting the college career office and asking what types of fields chemistry majors have entered. Where are the jobs? How much do they pay? etc.

 

2) Have him look through the research being done by profs and grad students at any decent large university. (available on the department websites) The lists of projects being research may spark his interest and help him to be aware of the myriad of possibilities.

 

3) When applying to grad school, it is common to jump majors as long as the student has the necessary prereqs. So a chemistry major could just into materials science, into biochemistry, into technology and public policy, etc.

 

4) Is he interested in minoring in anything? An additional interest might provide the key to what he can do with chemistry. For example, if he is interested in computer programming or math, maybe he might want to pursue molecular modelling.

 

My daughter was always interested in historic textiles, and she double-majored in chemistry and art history. Now she is in a grad program in mat sci & eng doing research in art conservation!

[ErinE]

Although I'm not in a STEM field, I worked for several years in an academic programs office at a large engineering and science university. Your son's grade is a fantastic accomplishment and he should be very proud of his achievement. Organic Chem is a very tough course.

 

I'm going to dissent from pp and say I've never found the career office very helpful for job guidance. Often times, the student must know exactly what company or field they are interested in before utilizing career services because the office is meant to serve all majors and cannot specialize. I would encourage him to meet with several professors and talk with them about their field, how they got started, what opportunities they see in the future, etc. People always love talking about themselves and he will show himself to be a motivated student by meeting with them. If he can get a job as a student worker or assisting a professor, so much the better. He should cultivate his contacts within the college; they may lead to additional leads for career opportunities. At least where I worked, the college administration and professors had a lot of influence in steering companies to outstanding students.

 

Since he will look for a job without graduate credentials, he should get as much work experience as possible during his undergrad years. Having worked with recruiters, I can say they are more interested in students with internships and applicable work experience. All else being equal, given a choice between a 3.2 GPA student with experience and a 3.4 GPA student with no work, companies prefer the former. Experienced students tend to transition easier into the corporate world.

 

Finally, I wouldn't focus solely on sustainability initiatives. These are heavily dependent on government subsidies and as we've seen in the past few years, there have been serious cutbacks. . My specialty is energy and every alternative energy project that I've seen is not sustainable without substantial government help. If he has a passion for green alternatives, that's fine but he should be open to many career paths. I've yet to meet anyone who's life turned out exactly as they envisioned in college.

[Bluegoat]

My husband was a chem major. He really never worked in the field though - the kinds of jobs he was qualified for with a BSc were pretty low paying.

 

Now he is a manager of a weather station, so he is essentially supervising scientists and sometimes does some air quality stuff. Meteorology seems to be a place thjat has a lot of jobs and includes people with a chemistry background.

[Brenda in MA]

Since he will look for a job without graduate credentials, he should get as much work experience as possible during his undergrad years. Having worked with recruiters, I can say they are more interested in students with internships and applicable work experience. All else being equal, given a choice between a 3.2 GPA student with experience and a 3.4 GPA student with no work, companies prefer the former. Experienced students tend to transition easier into the corporate world.

:iagree:

Getting relevant experience before graduation is so much more important than it used to be. My son was interviewing for coop jobs this past fall, and he said that many of the recruiters mentioned how much they like to see career-related experience on a resume. General work experience at local swimming pools or fast-food places just doesn't seem to carry much weight.

 

We heard the same advice from the school's president at parent's day in response to a question about how the school was doing with job placements. The message was to get experience early. So definitely encourage your son to see if he can find a professor to do some research for. Also, he might start looking over break and during the winter for a summer internship in a field related to his major.

 

Best wishes to him,

Brenda

[JumpyTheFrog]

My DH graduated with a 3.6 in chemistry in 2004. He had done 3 different research co-ops and also was a lab TA. We moved to one of the fast growing states with lots of tech jobs and he was never able to find a decent, permanent job in chemistry. The first job was a "trained monkey" type job that would probably go nowhere and didn't really require more than a first year level of chemistry knowledge. It didn't pay well either. It was so boring he quit after a few weeks.

 

The next job was working through a temp agency for a firm doing research on medical devices. The work was more advanced and used his knowledge. Unfortunately, while the company liked him as a temp (for two years) they wouldn't permanently hire anyone without a graduate degree. That makes no sense. "You're a good worker and able to do your job well, but sorry, we only intend to use you short term and then throw you away."

 

In the end, he gave up and switched to another career (which he likes much, much better). A BS in chemistry, even with good internships and such, wasn't enough then. I can't imagine how much harder it is to get a job now.

[Laura in CA]

I have a BS and an MA in chemistry. At the national research lab in our town, a master's degree is the minimum qualification for chemists. (For physicists it's pretty much a PhD; for engineers a BS or master's is plenty.) During college I worked every summer for 10 weeks or so doing chemistry research (IBM, national labs, etc.), getting very good pay. I also spent a year in Germany doing chemistry research before grad school, also at very good pay. (The degree certainly opened doors!)

 

The two years I spent getting my master's in chemistry were wonderful. I was at Princeton -- loved it -- and also met my husband there. As Brenda says, the chemistry students had full stipends that were enough to live on (frugally, in student housing), with free tuition (in exchange for TAing and research). Princeton -- and many other "serious" schools -- did not have a "terminal" master's program; it's a stepping-stone to getting a PhD. I eventually decided I'd rather do something besides chemistry research, so I left with the MA. (This isn't encouraged, but it's acceptable.) I echo all the advice to talk with professors and get their opinions. Also, at my undergraduate college, many of the chemistry professors' wives also had degrees in chemistry, but they worked in industry -- another source (for me) of information on paths you can take with a chemistry degree that aren't strictly academic, requiring a PhD. Perhaps your son can find similar resources. Good for him, and I wish him much success. Chemistry is a ton of fun! :D

[Kim in Appalachia]

Sophomore son got the only A in his level 2 Organic Chem class, and when I picked him up from school Saturday he announced that he was most likely changing from Bio to Chem as his major. A chem. prof helped him figure how to do this and still get out before his four years are up (merit scholarship at a LAC - there is NO WAY to pay for an extra term or two.)

 

So - tell me about chemistry as a major. Can grads get jobs with just a four-year degree, or what sort of advanced degrees are common, etc. This kid started out History major, then Bio...teased me with talk of changing to Philosophy for a spell...now seems to have found his niche.

 

Med. school never was much of an option as a Bio major - he is not that much of a people person to be a doctor.

 

 

Then he would be a good surgeon. :lol:

 

Sorry. I just had to put that.

 

My dh was a chemistry major, but went on to med school. He did get a great temp job the summer before med school started. It was a company that provided science-temp positions, and it paid great. But really, most science degrees will eventually require that you go on for an advanced degree. A friend of my dh went on to grad school in chemistry. They paid him to be there. He got full tuition plus a salary (not much of one). And if he preferred he could have found a job right out of college that then paid him to continue his education.

 

But that was many years ago. I have no idea if things are like that now. My dh would agree that chemistry is a better major than biology. :D His sister might disagree (she did bio), and his brother would say physics is better. :001_smile:

[mommymilkies]

Dh is a chemist. He has his Masters. It's hard to find Chem jobs unless you have a PhD. You can sometimes pharmaceutical or indistrial jobs with a BS. I would take some bio as a backup option for going into Pharmacy, etc. he also needs to know which kind of chem to focus on. Organic and analytical seem to have the most job opportunities, IME. He should also so undergrad research and get on a publication. Good luck to your DS!

[JFSinIL]

Thanks all for the info - we already knew he'd need more than a four-year degree with Bio - so no surprise there. I am going to cut and paste all the info from ya'all and print him out a big "Tips from the WTMoms" - that will make his eyes roll! ;)

 

The family is now trained to expect me to run to the WTMoms for advice! :D

 

Any chemist folks out there even heard of Augustana College? (Illinois, not the Dakota one). They claim to have some renown as an undergrad program in Chem.

[Janice H]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236628&highlight=chemical+engineer

 

It includes details about working conditions.

[Reesegirl]

Congrats to your son! My youngest dd just finished a semester in O Chem and she said it was the hardest class she has ever taken! She also got an A and there was a lot of celebrating around here!

 

Just wanted to add to the comments, my oldest dd graduated from university from a small lac in 2006 in chemistry. She applied to about 7-8 different grad programs, accepted to several and went to UW for the chenistry PHD progam. She received a stipend for living expenses and then all of her master course work was paid for. She did research and also taught lab sections, test and quiz sections and had open hours for students to come to her for tutoring and help. She recieved her masters in 2 years and worked on research for 4. In the end, she wasn't getting the results for her research in order to write her thesis and recently left the program with her masters. But this was a great way to have her masters paid for and she has the experience of teaching college students and research which will be great for appying for jobs.

 

While in college, she spent 2 summers doing research for the university in chemistry and she also had the opportunity of being a TA for profs.

[Annie G]

Our oldest also left a PhD program with a masters. She got married and had two children while in grad school and the prof she was working under moved from Georgia Tech to NYU- she flew there every six weeks with a nursing baby in tow and eventually decided that a masters was acceptable.

 

She had a nice stipend while in school- it was wonderful.

[Mrs Twain]

Med. school never was much of an option as a Bio major - he is not that much of a people person to be a doctor.

 

One does not need to be a people person to go be a doctor. There are many fields of medicine which wouldn't require him to talk to people all day if that is his preference. Most people who go to medical school go because they are good at academics, interested in medicine, want to help people, and like the challenge of solving problems.

[laundrycrisis]

If he likes the applications of Chemistry, he could go into an MS or PhD program in Chemical Engineering with a BS in Chemistry, but he might need to take a few prereqs that he's missing.

 

 

If he is interested in the engineering field it would be better to straight for the BS in engineering in the first place. Entering engineering as a graduate student without any of the basic engineering classes, he would be missing a lot of the fundamentals of engineering.

 

In general, BS will not enough for any science/engineering major.

 

 

When I graduated with a BS in ChemE, a BS was plenty for an entry level engineering job. Most of the mechanical and electrical engineers I worked with also just had BS degrees. The only engineers I worked with who had MS degrees were those whose BS degree was in another field. However, all of the non-engineering chemistry folks had an MS or PhD. It was very hard for a chemistry BS to find a job. Most went to grad school or double majored in another field. This was (ahem) 20 years ago. I don't know the current state of the job market for BS engineers....but I have a younger cousin who also had no problem finding a job with a BS in ChE.

Edited December 31, 2011 by laundrycrisis

[ChemMommy]

I teach General and Organic Chemistry at a private 4-year college. Congratulations to your son for his excellent performance in OChem!!

 

Yes, he can get a decent job with just a BA/BS in chemistry. The guidance office usually has a poor idea of science jobs. Our students who leave with a BS usually get their first job through Science Temps. Typically, starting salaries are around 30,000 and lead to permanent employment within months. It's a pain-free way to break into the job market.

 

For a B+ or better chemistry major, I'd strongly encourage them to consider at least a master's degree. For chemistry, this degree will take 2 to 2.5 years and cost next to NOTHING! They will work for a university and teach undergraduate labs to pay for their education. Stipends for chemistry majors is 15,000 to 20,000. At the end, you will have accumulated almost NO new debt and have a super marketable degree. (Please note: this will NOT be true for biology majors--too many of them so the grad school pay is lower by far! Usually)

 

Finally, your son should start looking for paid summer research positions or, if there is a lot of industry in your area, for an internship. Have him google "summer undergraduate research" and chemistry. Almost every university has a program for 10 weeks each summer for potential graduate students to come to try their hand at research. Such programs will give your son valuable experience with research, techniques, and instrumentation. And the pay is much better than a burger-flipping job! He may need to work hard for one after his sophomore year, but will likely have a choice of a couple of schools to do research at after his junior year. Deadlines are typically mid-February, so he still has time.

 

Job outlook for chemist: excellent. We place every single major in a degree-related field within months of graduation.

 

HTH!!