bettyandbob Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 My ds has down syndrome is 10 and in 4th grade. He is has very little expressive speech (can't tell me what's going on). He is in an inclusive classroom, but goes out for reading and math. He takes swimming lessons with typical kids (always has and is one of the better behaved kids in his swimming lessons). He goes to Sunday School with typical kids 3d-4th grade combined. This year there is another child with an intellectual disability in Sunday School. That child has more expressive language, but really cannot read at all. 1. Public school has been great until this year: new principal, new teacher, new aid, new speech therapist, and more new people. Not one person stayed the same. The first 3 weeks the school assigned a different substitute the ds's sp ed group daily. The new teacher is unskilled and uncertified (I checked doe website). Ds is generally stressed out at school and does not want to go. He has developed tics and handflapping related to the anxiety. One reason why I did not homeschool this child was specifically social. When we are out and about child walk up to us all over town to say hi to him. He swims summer league and kids on other teams know him. I cannot replicate this in a homeschool environment for him because of his disabilities. My older 2 kids had plenty of people adults and peers with which to interact when they were home, but this child would not. Besides the bad teacher situation I've started to wonder about whether some "peers" are turning on him. 2. I have proof that ds was bullied for 5 weeks twice a week in swimming lessons. That's when my son broke down wailing and sobbing at the end of a lesson and the instructor came to me and told me what was happening saying he didn't knowT what to do. I saw the bully's mother that night on my way out of the building and yelled at her. The bully has not done anything since, but now my ds won't swim. He was on swim team last summer. On weekends he does special olympics swimming and last year at special olympics practice he swim laps for 45 minutes straight. Now, he just stands in the water at lessons and at special olympics. 3. This is the one that makes maddest. Sunday School. Two weeks ago I arrived at the SS class and my ds wouldn't go in. After sometime I asked one the teachers to come out and she told me there had been an "incident" and some of the kids were "rambunctious." We finally got ds into the class and I stayed. The other SN kid was there with his dad and he looked unhappy too. There was no SS a week ago. This week I pulled into the parking lot of church and ds starts yelling and holding the car door shut. I get him into SS again and I have some stuff with me for adapting one the current plans. I make plans with the dad of the other sn child about how to coordinate my mini lessons and settle in to watch the planned movie next to my child. I hear the dad tell his son he's going to get some coffee and will be back. That child starts to cry and says "don't leave me here". This is a class that has 9-12 children and 2 teachers every week. I have a lot of hard work ahead trying figure out how to fix the school situation. However, ds has always loved swimming and that's gone. And until 2 weeks ago enjoyed running down the church hall to his SS classroom. He's really been hammered on all sides and I think he does not fee safe anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clementine Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 This breaks my heart. I am so sorry you and your son are going through this, it is not fair. :grouphug::grouphug: I'm sorry I have no advice, but you touched me. :grouphug::grouphug: I hope you get great advice from the wise women here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Betty, your post really breaks my heart. Because your son is lacking verbal skills, he can't tell you what is really going on. Even though, he IS telling you that he's unhappy or even scared in all of those environments. I think it would be more deleterious to have him in those environments. My dd has been bullied by the coach's daughter at swim for a year. I can tell you that hindsight and all, we left her there too long. It got to a dangerous level last week and we won't be returning. It really concerns me that the two sn's kids are terrified of SS. If this were a one time situation, would they react so strongly? It sounds like you have your son in school purely for social reasons. My opinion is that bad socialization is worse than no socialization, and I speak from experience. I will NEVER put my girls into ps after the experience I've had with my boys. You know your child and you know what's right for him. If I were in your predicament, I would be pulling him out of everything that causes him anxiety, and I would school him at home to the best of my ability. I would get him involved with more peers like him through Easter Seals and Special Olympics. I don't know if there are organizations for DS kids but I know there are for other disabilities like aspergers and autism. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: what a tough situation! I've always had such special feelings for ds kids. I really wish we could have adopted one!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 I guess I just wondered if it had to do with the age group he interacts with: 8-10 in all three places. Ds knows he's different. Is this the age when a kid who might be prone to bullying start picking on the person he perceives as weak. I don't understand why all three things fell apart at the same time. I am sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I don't think anyone can tell you that it's the age group. Unfortunately, bullies can sometimes start very young. I've seen it encouraged by fathers with preschoolers.:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 To answer your question, I think bullying does start about 4th grade, so yes about age 10. It can start earlier, but 4th grade seems to be the beginning. It only gets worse through 8th grade. By high school it does taper off quite a bit, but doesn't completely go away. Some people remain bullies their entire lives unfortunately. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to you and your son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Part of me feels strongly that my ds should not be limited to activities for only kids with special needs. He is often one of the better behaved kids in swim lessons and had the skills for the level he was in so why shouldn't he be there. And I think by being there his presence teaches the other kids a lot just from the experience. But now I know this only works with teachers who know how to recognize bullying and stop it immediately. If he is in only special needs activities, that is isolating. My son needs to be part of the community. One day I hope he will be working in this community. I don't want him suddenly interacting with the wider community as adult. That would be hard for him and the wider community won't recieve him as easily if he's not a part to begin with. And really why can't he experience Christian behavior in church. I don't want to go back, but dd is supposed to take confirmation classes and dh insists that she go through this. It will be harder to take dd and not ds, but I may go that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) This was the age a friend of mine's ds was starting to be bullied when the teachers weren't watching. He has verbal skills and they were able to work through it. I would rethink the environments you want to leave him in and those that you can attend with him. :grouphug: And kids are mean in church too. :( It happened to us. Edited November 14, 2011 by Starr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) I would rethink the environments you want to leave him in and those that you can attend with him. :grouphug: dh wanted to continue with swimming. the new session starts this week. ds will have an older teacher he had all year last year and no child from his previous class will be in his new group. And I will not just be on the deck I will be hovering. SS If we go to church I will be in SS the whole time. The plan is for the other special needs child and my ds will have a mini lesson with me and then join the group lesson. We'll see how it goes. I have a bigger problem with school and I'm working on that. I just thought I could count on "extracurriculars" to go about in the happy progression they previously had. With these extra problems, the pain has increased exponentially. Edited November 14, 2011 by betty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I wish I could be very helpful, but my kids are younger so I have little experience with 4th & up. I am sorry your DS has been hammered on all sides. It sounds like you work really hard to do what is best for him and you are a good Mom.:001_smile: Could you take him out of everything except school for now and try to work on each situation, gradually, one by one, to get some resolution? Maybe the new teachers/principal would work with you to improve things if they realized how bad it is? But the whole thing seems to be too much to tackle at once. :grouphug: I wish he were in my son's class! ETA cross-post, sorry, when i wrote this I missed your last post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) thanks for listening. I think I needed to just "talk." Edited November 14, 2011 by betty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 1. The new teacher is unskilled and uncertified (I checked doe website). Ds is generally stressed out at school and does not want to go... Besides the bad teacher situation I've started to wonder about whether some "peers" are turning on him. I don't have anyone in ps, but it seems like they would have to have a certified teacher in the classroom - have you talked with anyone at the district or county level? That's the only idea I have. 2. I have proof that ds was bullied for 5 weeks twice a week in swimming lessons. That's when my son broke down wailing and sobbing at the end of a lesson and the instructor came to me and told me what was happening saying he didn't knowT what to do. I saw the bully's mother that night on my way out of the building and yelled at her. The bully has not done anything since, but now my ds won't swim. The bully should have been removed from the class. Your son may have not wanted to participate for fear of retaliation or further bullying. I see in a later post, he'll be in a new class w/a new teacher, so that is good. I'm glad he wants to go back to it. 3. This is the one that makes maddest. Sunday School. Two weeks ago I arrived at the SS class and my ds wouldn't go in. After sometime I asked one the teachers to come out and she told me there had been an "incident" and some of the kids were "rambunctious." Can you find out more about the "incident?" The teacher should have tripped over herself to give you this information when it happened. Can you talk to the pastor in charge of the children's ss classes? Ask if they have a policy about bullying? Ask if the ss teacher's are told to address it when they see it? They should be. It should be an open topic for discussion. And until 2 weeks ago enjoyed running down the church hall to his SS classroom. This is why I think you need to find out what happened - please talk to someone there and get as many details as you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTwinsMom1 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I don't have much advice, however both my kids are special needs and are in PS, one in mainsteam classes and one in a self contained classroom. I can say that bulling for us has gone up alot this year (4th grade and 10 years old) The last couple of years it was mild, but this year the kids are really hammering my two also, esp my girl who is mainstreamed in a regular ed classroom. It's been hell, but our school is stepping up and handling the issues, but I do agree that it must be this age group where it gets bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Part of me feels strongly that my ds should not be limited to activities for only kids with special needs. He is often one of the better behaved kids in swim lessons and had the skills for the level he was in so why shouldn't he be there. And I think by being there his presence teaches the other kids a lot just from the experience. But now I know this only works with teachers who know how to recognize bullying and stop it immediately. If he is in only special needs activities, that is isolating. My son needs to be part of the community. One day I hope he will be working in this community. I don't want him suddenly interacting with the wider community as adult. That would be hard for him and the wider community won't recieve him as easily if he's not a part to begin with. And really why can't he experience Christian behavior in church. I don't want to go back, but dd is supposed to take confirmation classes and dh insists that she go through this. It will be harder to take dd and not ds, but I may go that way. this is my opinion only so take it for what it's worth. I think your son would be better off being with kids that he can have healthy and happy social experiences. My oldest son is scarred to this day because he was taunted all through out high school. His huge heart and acceptance of all has been squashed. It took him a couple of years to figure out how to fit in with a rough high school crowd, and he did make some really good friends. The scars he still has simply weren't worth it. I don't know if he'll ever recover to have a healthy outlook on people. And Christians? Forget it. I won't EVEN go there. I'll only share that our family has most DEFINITELY been more hurt by Christians than any other people. I agree that your son deserves deserves to be a part of a community, but ALL kids deserve that. All BEINGS deserve that. My son's HUGE heart, his generous spirit, etc. were appreciated by some and crushed by others. He has an edge to him that I believe he never would have if he didn't experience such ugly people in high school. He earned the respect of his biggest tormentors by pummeling them one day. How sad is that? I never thought my kid could ever harm another being. I never thought I'd be a mom to tell him to hit back, knowing he was MUCH bigger and stronger than the other kids. But he pummeled the school's biggest bully and then earned his respect. My dh never befriended him because he only likes GOOD people. Still, his scars have truly changed who he is and it breaks my heart. So I have a very strong opinion because of my son's experience. I think you can only consider your son isolated if he's not involved at all outside the home. I think isolating against potentially damaging circumstances are good. I wouldn't want him to grow up emotionally damaged from his experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Betty, I don't know if you've read any of my threads about my dd and swim. The coach and daughter who bullied my dd are both STRONG Christians.:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Betty, I don't know if you've read any of my threads about my dd and swim. The coach and daughter who bullied my dd are both STRONG Christians.:glare: Dd is PASSIONATE about synchronized swim. I pulled her out because of the bullying and she won't be going back. She's had health issues that come for a few months and then disappear for 3 - 3.5 years. She thought she could return to synchro once she became strong again but it won't be allowed. She always wanted to do synchro but I'm not going to allow the scars and damage that my son suffered by bullying idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 dh wanted to continue with swimming. the new session starts this week. ds will have an older teacher he had all year last year and no child from his previous class will be in his new group. And I will not just be on the deck I will be hovering. SS If we go to church I will be in SS the whole time. The plan is for the other special needs child and my ds will have a mini lesson with me and then join the group lesson. We'll see how it goes. I have a bigger problem with school and I'm working on that. I just thought I could count on "extracurriculars" to go about in the happy progression they previously had. With these extra problems, the pain has increased exponentially. I think your SS and swim plans sound good. You're a good mom!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Betty, I don't know if you've read any of my threads about my dd and swim. The coach and daughter who bullied my dd are both STRONG Christians.:glare: No, they're not. They may believe there is a Jesus and they may give lip service to His doctrines and His church, but they aren't Christians. Not even if they can quote every verse of the Sermon on the Mount and preach sermons all day long. A Christian is a Christ-follower, and Jesus never abused a child in his life. If they followed Him, their way would be much different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 No, they're not. They may believe there is a Jesus and they may give lip service to His doctrines and His church, but they aren't Christians. Not even if they can quote every verse of the Sermon on the Mount and preach sermons all day long. A Christian is a Christ-follower, and Jesus never abused a child in his life. If they followed Him, their way would be much different. :eek: You are SO right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 :grouphug: I'm so sorry this is happening to your son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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