songsparrow Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 My younger daughter has been unhappy and complaining about Sunday School for a couple years now. I've been observing from the sidelines, such as when I'm a helper. (I used to teach, but haven't in the last couple years.) What I have observed is that the teachers rarely prepare for the class (I've seen this enough now that I think it's not just a fluke.). They often seem like they haven't looked at the materials before arriving at the classroom. They do not plan any type of arts or crafts activity (other than just setting out some crayons and paper, if that). The Bible stories are dry and not engaging (I don't like the materials they use, and didn't when I was a teacher, either). A couple years ago, they were learning hymns, but they don't seem to be doing that any more. The church has a lot of kids. They are taught by parent volunteers (usually 3 per grade level who rotate). It's been the same setup as long as I can remember, but I have noticed an overall decline in the teaching over the past couple of years - I don't know why. The end result is my daughter hating Sunday School, Bible stories, etc. What should I do? Should I discuss my concerns with the Sunday School coordinator? I've mentioned some concerns in the past, but nothing changed. I don't know if anyone else is complaining. And I don't know how much to expect from volunteers. I'm willing to bring up concerns, if there's a good chance things will change/improve. I could teach again, but that doesn't really address the issue. Should I just hold my daughter out of Sunday School and keep her with the adults in church, and plan to teach Bible stories at home? Or should we look into other churches? I'm just not sure what to do at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I'm not Christian, so bear with me - does Sunday School meet during the adult worship service? If so, I'd think nothing of keeping her "with the adults in church" (assuming she's not a distraction). My kids are Catholic, and their religious education takes place outside of the worship service. So they sit through the mass with everyone else, and have classes separately on a different day during the week. My son opted out of it for the same reasons your daughter describes, so we cover his stuff at home. My daughter likes the social aspect of class, so she still attends ... but we still cover her stuff at home, too. If she's not getting anything out of it, why continue? (Disclaimer, again, in that I'm not Christian so am viewing this as I would any other class one is not getting anything out of; I know some faiths see training through different lenses so YMMV!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Keep her with you. Do Sunday school at home. Or volunteer to teach her age and make it engaging and fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songsparrow Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yes, Sunday School meets during adult worship, so I can just keep her with us and teach her at home. And perhaps that's the best option. I guess part of the issue, for me, is that one of our important reasons for choosing the church was their large and vibrant program for children, and I'm sad about being disappointed in it. When I read your posts, I realized that I'm mixing those two issues up (what's best for my daughter v. quality of the program as a whole), and although they're related, maybe I need to separate them. So thank you for your replies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 The end result is my daughter hating Sunday School, Bible stories, etc. What should I do? . . . Should I just hold my daughter out of Sunday School and keep her with the adults in church, and plan to teach Bible stories at home? I have not read other answers, because I want to avoid being influenced. I would absolutely remove her from Sunday school classes. I was very convicted of exactly what children are learning after reading Ken Ham's book Already Gone. (With the kerfuffle earlier this year, I feel the need to add that I am not necessarily a huge Ken Ham fan.) I believe that a healthy church will have children's teachers who are LED to lead. They will not teach Sunday school because they feel obligated, because it's their "turn," or because they think they should do something. If God were really leading them to teach this class, I would assume they would be filled by His spirit and they would be prepared. The other thing that I would do is stop referring to Bible study as "stories." "Stories" implies tales. The Bible is Truth, and we cannot impress that enough to our children. :grouphug: (I'm overwhelmed by His grace today; but shouldn't I be every day?!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I have not read other answers, because I want to avoid being influenced. I would absolutely remove her from Sunday school classes. I was very convicted of exactly what children are learning after reading Ken Ham's book Already Gone. (With the kerfuffle earlier this year, I feel the need to add that I am not necessarily a huge Ken Ham fan.) I believe that a healthy church will have children's teachers who are LED to lead. They will not teach Sunday school because they feel obligated, because it's their "turn," or because they think they should do something. If God were really leading them to teach this class, I would assume they would be filled by His spirit and they would be prepared. The other thing that I would do is stop referring to Bible study as "stories." "Stories" implies tales. The Bible is Truth, and we cannot impress that enough to our children. :grouphug: (I'm overwhelmed by His grace today; but shouldn't I be every day?!) I completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I would try all the things you've suggested. I would talk to the coordinator and tell her just what you've told us. I would give it a few weeks and if no changes are made, I would pull my daughter and keep her in church with me. I would talk to her about all this at length and explain that I want her to love learning about the Bible and think it should be enjoyable. If she needs/wants the time with other kids her own age, then I'd look for another church that handles Sunday school in a better way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHASRADA Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I have been unhappy with some of the weekend religious classes I have enrolled my dc in over the years. At one of them, a small group of motivated, well-meaning parents formed a parents' association, meeting weekly to brainstorm ways to improve the classes and practical suggestions for doing so. Our goal was to help and support the director and teachers. The result? We were accused of trying to take over the weekend school and that our help wasn't wanted or needed :confused:. My point is, you can try to change the entire system (which may be met with territorial resistance or simple apathy), or you can change the situation for YOUR dd. Did you try to change your public school system to fit your dd, or did you just pull her out? In our case, we ended up teaching one dc at home and found a school that was a much better fit for the other (as in, teachers who really want to be there, are motivated and prepared and welcome help from parents!) Incidentally, the school we ended up with is at a different place of worship than ours, although of the same faith. Good luck in your decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenjenn Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 We had a similar experience. And, it was ALSO expensive. I chose not to enroll this year. We are Jewish in a non-Jewish area and do not have the luxury of having multiple options. Jewish Sunday school is a one-option deal here. We do religious education at home, and then I take them to celebrations and observances that I know they will enjoy on the side. The only thing worse than no religious education is a bad religious education that makes the child have negative feelings associated with religion, IMO. That said if you are Christian, shop around. You have the luxury of many different denominations and schools I suspect, and I know there are some fantastic, inspiring options out there. I have "church envy" myself. I really wish I had options! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 You could volunteer to teach her class. But when everyone is a volunteer, everyone is a volunteer. You can fire volunteers who aren't "stepping up," but then often, you end up with no volunteers. <sigh> I teach Sunday School and I have had the rather unenviable job of trying to line volunteers up for teaching. It is NOT easy. I also agree with PPs. The idea is to prevent your child from becoming apathetic toward her faith or view it negatively due to negative experiences now. Sunday School can be done at home! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuirkyKapers Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Just for clarfication, is it a Sunday school program that happens during the church service or a Children's church program? I have noticed in churches we visit that the Children's church program is often fluffier? So, if it were a Sunday school program, I would put her in church. You could consider other churches but if that is the only thing you aren't happy with, it could change. Also, looking for another church isn't necessarily an easy solution either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songsparrow Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) It's a Sunday School program that happens during the last 45 minutes of the church service (after the children's sermon). Thanks, everyone, for the replies. They helped me to realize that I was mixing together the issue of the quality issues in the church's SS program - which is a big issue that is beyond my ability to address - with the issue of my daughter's unhappiness and failure to learn positively about the Bible and God - which is totally within my control to immediately address. I've offered to my daughter to have her stay in regular church with us on Sundays, and we'd do SS at home during the week. She was happy with that idea. I had actually ordered a curriculum that I had planned to introduce to the girls anyway (because of this issue), so this provides a nice segue into it. I will look for an opportunity to positively share my concerns with the SS coordinator, also. Edited October 17, 2011 by songsparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuirkyKapers Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Glad you figured it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyJen Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Another alternative . . . is to talk to the Sunday School Coordinator, but make sure that when you approach her, approach her with concrete ideas, and an understanding of what the issues are. Have you attended a church conference meeting, or seen the budget? Is there enough in the budget for new materials? Then research better materials before the next round is purchased, and present your ideas to the coordinator, and get her excited about this new curriculum. Does the existing curriculum HAVE some cool activities, but because the teachers rotate, nobody can take the teacher guide home, so they arrive at church unprepared with copies, materials, etc, and are winging it when they get there, and the lesson devolves into coloring? Suggest that the coordinator or another volunteer (you?) offer to scan and email out a copy of that week's teacher guide to the week's teachers by Wednesday so that they can prepare ahead of time and make it more exciting for the kids. Does anybody have the DK kids Bible, with photos of the archeaological sites, so the kids can see real photos of the places you are talking about, and real maps and timelines, so they can place all the events and places onto something they can see and touch and make it more real? Yes, keeping your daughter with you and simply taking charge of her education is an option, particularly if you meet resistance, or big fish/small pond syndrome, but if you find people who want to do better and simply don't know how, think of all the other kids you might help reach if there is some small, simple step to take to improve the program for everyone! A church is a community, and it isn't run and supported by "those in power." We who are in the church ARE its power, its lifeblood, and its love and community. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Keep her with you. Do Sunday school at home. Or volunteer to teach her age and make it engaging and fun! :iagree: I think it's hard to complain about volunteers not doing a "good" job if you're not on the volunteer list. I teach Sunday school and I do the best I can. But I'm not a professional teacher and I don't have a few extra hours to do prep. Our church does have a teacher training class in the fall and sets up teachers with their lesson ahead of time. I only had one lesson to teach and I taught it to a different group of children for 6 weeks. So there are some organizational things you could suggest to the RE director if you are in a position to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songsparrow Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) Jen, thanks for the reply. I agree - I do intend to bring up some constructive ideas to the SS coordinator, and I do hope that the SS experience can be improved for everyone. I want to see what I think of the curriculum that I've ordered to try with my girls, and if I like it I will recommend it and let her take a look at it. I want to suggest more arts & crafts, music and/or games - maybe a weekly station that the different classes could rotate through. I'd love to see more service projects that the kids could work on as a group. (I always hate to complain unless I can suggest other alternatives.) But realistically, it's beyond my control whether any changes will actually be made, and even if they are, it will take a while to implement. So it helps me to realize that I don't have to try to fix everything. What is completely within my control, though, is how I respond to my daughter's needs. ETA: And kck, I agree, too. I am trying to work out my schedule to teach again, but right now I'm overcommitted. And even though I can do more engaging lessons in my class on my weeks, that doesn't address what I think are systemic issues in the SS program. For example, the program lacks music, arts & crafts, and service projects across the board. I think these are a fundamental part of a vibrant program. These things were part of the program at one point, but have gotten lost; maybe the volunteer teachers need more support in these areas. At least this issue has helped me to clarify what I think needs improvement, so I can discuss it more constructively! Edited October 17, 2011 by songsparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think it would be pointless to talk to the Sunday school coordinator and then wait for something to happen before you withdraw your dd. I say take her out now. You should probably tell the Sunday school coordinator why you're doing it, but truly, I wouldn't expect her to really do anything. Sad but true. I would also tell the pastor. He should know what's happening with the children (and he might not know). Your dd might get more out of being with you than she does in Sunday school, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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