Any testing experts around?

[Bang!Zoom!]

I was over on Hoagies looking around at the different states & the mandate categories. http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/mandates.htm

 

The situation

 

We are up for layoff season in the next four weeks. We could receive notice at any time for things here to end, and have to find new work "somewhere else."

 

Somewhere else..could be about anywhere...we've thrown around everything from Texas to Dubai to Alaska to Maryland, Kentucky...British Columbia...just about everywhere....

 

On the assumption that we find new work and it is US based....is there any 1 single test that is generally accepted as "proof" for entry into G/T programs or even IEP's solely for G/T if that state has them available?

 

The guidance counselor here said to me that the MAP is universally recognized for entry to G/T programs in public schools...but that isn't lining up with what I'm seeing elsewhere on the net.

 

Is there a defining/recognized no questions asked test? Or does it just vary wildly and it-all-depends..?

[JenneinCA]

I would think a WISC score would be understood. But that doesn't mean they would accept it for admission to their programs or anything else.

 

Some places require the test to be given by someone on their list to be used for placement purposes and others only allow testing at certain times of the year. It is a confusing mess.

 

I hope that helps. And I hope the situation works out the way you would like.

[wapiti]

No, it varies widely by district. Our district no longer accepts private testing, and relies only on the CogAT (a screening test) administered by them. If you are thinking about doing private testing, something like the WISC or SB5 would probably be your safest bets. In addition to Hoagies, you might check out some of the articles like this one on the GDC website.

 

I'd figure out where you want to go first (decide what school districts offer what you're looking for) and then see what their requirements are.

[Bang!Zoom!]

You know, in the back of my mind I was thinking about "dated" results..you know...getting somewhere to settle in and having some secretary say, "Oh, sorry honey, this test date isn't valid, we only take the last 30 days" or something like that...

 

And I suppose it would be about making the money in district and such.

 

This is really something I can't worry about I think. But I am wondering now...let's say we end up in Detroit..and she's "zoned" to go to a PS in the area that's just beyond sub-par, just flat out dangerous....

 

There has to be some sort of way to figure out at what point I have to state I'm home-educating until suitable placement is found.

 

How does a person figure out when moving from point A to point B how much time can elapse before you fall into the non-compliant areas of compulsory education & attendance laws.

 

Doesn't that vary from state to state?

 

How would I deal with that?

[Mabelen]

My school district uses the MAP for achievement standardized testing and the OLSAT for ability gate testing. They will accept gate identification from another school district temporarily though for placement and then decide whether further testing is necessary.

 

I think it really varies from district to district as well as to what they will accept from a different source. It's hard to prepare when you don't know where you'll end up, right?

 

I wish you all the best with both the job and schooling situations.

 

Edited to add: My school district specifically states that high MAP scores do not necessarily indicate qualification for the gate program since high achievement doesn't always mean exceptional cognitive ability.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Mabelen

[Element]

I would highly recommend the WISC. It may not let you into every door, but at least the door will open wide enough for you to stick in your foot.

 

Many places won't consider a WISC GAI, so make sure the testing center will provide you with a FSIQ. Check local universities to see if they provide private testing.

[Bang!Zoom!]

If I were to throw out a ballpark figure of 1,000 dollars out of pocket for a WISC test, would I be rational?

 

I've been looking around and that seems to be about middle ground. I don't know if it varies by region or what.

 

Thanks for the tip on the extended FSIQ as well. :)

[Element]

If you are looking for an exact assessment of IQ, you will probably have to spend about that much and go to a private testing center. However, I suggested a university because a few offer the basic WISC IV for under $200 (we used Bradley University in Peoria, IL.) This basic test will probably not provide the additional subtests if your dc decide to hit the ceiling on a couple of sections :). Additionally, without the subtests, the WISC IV maxes out at 160.

 

However, if you're just looking for a basic 120/130/140+ score to get you in the door of many programs, the WISC IV without subtests is sufficient (in our experience, anyway!)

 

Best wishes to you & your family! It sounds like things are kind of uncertain for you right now. :grouphug: Hang in there!

[wapiti]

I think it varies by region. Here, I can get a WISC and WIAT (achievement), and detailed analysis with a conference and report for 1200-1600, depending on the tester (our local university is around 1400). Our most recent tester was 1200, and we got a sibling discount for doing three ;).

[EKS]

I spent about $800 for WISC-IV and WJ-III testing for my non-2E son (in western WA). 2E issues cost more.

[EKS]

The WISC-IV with the WJ-III would probably be the most accepted, but as others have mentioned, lots of districts don't accept private testing. Ours only uses the CogAT (which they administer) to screen in the 3rd grade and kids who make the cut move on to the ITBS reading and math. Then the district waves its hands over the numbers and decides who is deemed gifted. That part of the process is a bit less than transparent.

 

Then, once the kid is identified as gifted, nothing changes--same classroom, same level work. Which brings me to the reason we homeschool.

[Staceyshoe]

We did testing through the pub school a couple of years ago. It was free, but their IQ test wasn't something universally recognized. A few months ago, we had both IQ and achievement testing done--the WISC and the WJ. Our assessment was very thorough and include a few hours of interviewing ds, dh, and myself. I can't imagine that those would not be recognized just about anywhere. (The testing through the pub school was free. We spent $1500 for our private assessment, but I feel the results were far more accurate with the private testing.)

[Crimson Wife]

A lot of CA districts (if they have GATE at all, which many don't) use the Naglieri (sp?) test. The belief is that it's more "culturally fair" since it doesn't rely on language skills.

[saw]

You might want to consider what could happen if you had to do a test twice -- so if you do private testing with test x now but the school district requires test y but you cannot do test y if you've done test x too recently (hope that makes sense). We dealt with this a few years ago with DS, then 6, when we did an initial IQ test in one country knowing that there was a good chance we'd be doing a second IQ test in another. We knew the second one would be the WISC, so we made sure that having taken the first IQ test did not disqualify him from doing the WISC within the necessary time period. He did the Ravens first, then the WISC. There were a few tests that he could not do and then do the WISC. Not sure if it's relevant to your situation, but it could be if the district will accept only tests given by its own testers or something.

 

Good luck with the situation. Sounds like it is a bit of a challenge to get it sorted out and I hope it works out well.

[Nart]

My school district uses the MAP for achievement standardized testing and the OLSAT for ability gate testing. They will accept gate identification from another school district temporarily though for placement and then decide whether further testing is necessary.

 

I think it really varies from district to district as well as to what they will accept from a different source. It's hard to prepare when you don't know where you'll end up, right?

 

I wish you all the best with both the job and schooling situations.

 

Edited to add: My school district specifically states that high MAP scores do not necessarily indicate qualification for the gate program since high achievement doesn't always mean exceptional cognitive ability.

 

:iagree: I wouldn't get a private assessment unless you personally wanted the information. I work as a school psychologist in California, and in my district they will not accept any private evaluations. They won't even consider testing that I have done with a student as part of a special education evaluation. I administered the WISC-IV to a under performing student with ADHD. His GAI score was 138. He just missed the cut-off on the group administered CogAT assessment that district uses for entry into the gifted program (not a surprise since he was really squirmy). I told the mom that her son was gifted and my opinion was that he should be in the gifted program. She went to speak to the district's gifted coordinator, who told her that there was no way they wouldn't even look at his scores. The gifted coordinator then called the principal of that school to complain about me. The principal laughed when she told me how mad the gifted coordinator was at me. The student qualified for a 504 plan and I made sure that we wrote something like "individual or small group testing for exams including for gifted testing".

 

So if your child is already in a gifted program make sure you have documentation of that assessment with the percentile ranks because different districts have different cut-offs. You need to either get a copy of the print-out or have someone at the school write a short letter stating something like

 

This student is eligible for the gifted program in our district. Student was administered this assessment (CogAT, OLSAT, NNAT, Ravens, etc.) on this date. Student's percentile rank on each subtest was this .... and the overall percentile rank was ......

 

Districts will be more likely to take into account that the student was eligible for gifted testing in another district when placing a student. If you do end up moving I would also take in any academic scores and recent report cards into the new school. My SIL has had to move around the past few years for economic reasons. She called me to tell me that when she called her local elementary school to enroll my nephew they told her that there was no space in third grade and he would have to go to another school in the district. She mentioned on the phone that he had attended 5 different elementary schools. I told her to take in his state test scores (he scored Advanced in both English Language Arts and Math) and his last report card with excellent grades and teacher comments that stated he was well-behaved and a pleasure to teach. When she went in a showed the school his records, all of a sudden there was room in that grade.

 

I suggested it to my SIL because I have seen it done at other schools. Not all principals will do this but I have worked for principals that will be creative to make room for gifted or high achieving students even if there is no technically no space in that grade.

[Bang!Zoom!]

She qualifies for GATE now, but there is no room, it's overcrowded; she's mainstreaming and it's not going very well to be honest.

 

There is no IEP mandate here in WA state. She's fallen through the cracks.

 

I'd like to try to avoid this situation repeating when we move and get her placed in something more suitable, even if it's just grade acceleration. She's going to be a tall one, so in some aspect that may benefit her for a grade jump. She wouldn't look out of place at all.

 

Do you think there would be any point in getting documentation that she's GATE material but isn't attending the program due to overcrowding?

[Nart]

She qualifies for GATE now, but there is no room, it's overcrowded; she's mainstreaming and it's not going very well to be honest.

 

There is no IEP mandate here in WA state. She's fallen through the cracks.

 

I'd like to try to avoid this situation repeating when we move and get her placed in something more suitable, even if it's just grade acceleration. She's going to be a tall one, so in some aspect that may benefit her for a grade jump. She wouldn't look out of place at all.

 

Do you think there would be any point in getting documentation that she's GATE material but isn't attending the program due to overcrowding?

 

Yes. How was she found to be "GATE material?" If it was because of high academic scores than it doesn't mean that she would automatically qualify for GATE in most districts. (Although there are some districts who call use a gifted and/or high achievement model). If she was administered an intelligence test -CogAt, NNAT, Ravens, OLSAT, WISC-IV) you need to get documentation of those scores.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Her GATE was through personal recommendations, I think there were two letters....and 90-99.99 and up on 3 tests..I believe it was the CogAt, MAP & the third one...I'm drawing a blank on it. There was a fourth one also but she just hit below the high margin on it.

 

There was opportunity to retest on the 4th one but we declined at the time since we didn't know where we'd be living. That was really a mistake I think.

 

I've got a call into her guidance counselor to ask if she can check her file for me, I'll go down and get copies just in case news breaks this week.

 

That third one could have been the OLSAT, I'm not sure.

[Mabelen]

A lot of CA districts (if they have GATE at all, which many don't) use the Naglieri (sp?) test. The belief is that it's more "culturally fair" since it doesn't rely on language skills.

 

My district is in California, it offers this option for ESL students only, everybody else takes the OLSAT.