I need some parenting advice :(

[simka2]

We have hit a bit of a rough patch with the boys. In particular it is the 2 youngest. They are struggling with their tempers.

 

First the 6yr old. He is the youngest and really wants to be BIG. He can get very frustrated when he is not (in his eyes) listened to, respected, or getting his way. I can see the explosion coming. Sometimes I am frustrated for him...his brothers know just how to push his little buttons, but othertimes he is being rather ridiculous in his demands.

 

Just now he asked his brother if he could play his DS, brother said, "No." I asked youngest where his Leapster Explore was and he responded with, "I do not want to play it it is babyish." :glare: I tried reassure him that it wasn't, but he just growled and whined. He stomped his feet and went to his room. There it would have progressed to slamming door or rolling on the floor and kicking the wall. I called him back to me and we had a little heart to heart about his emotions and what to do with them. The problem is that we "talk" alot, I try to give him alternatives, but sometimes he just isn't going to get his way and he needs to be able to control himself with throwing a fit. How do I teach that?!

 

My 2nd youngest is a bit different. He is very "justice" oriented and can get petty and vindictive. He is the child that will hit/push/kick (think brother tustle not drag out fight) and then feel completely justified, because younger brother hit him first. I struggle because I do not want him to hit anyone, let alone his "little" brother, but as I have already mentioned little brother can have quite a temper of his own. These 2 feed of each other.

 

So, in his case I am dealing more with vindictive lashing out (and he has quite the memory):glare:. I am discussing what "being the bigger person is," but I feel the need to do more. How do I mold hearts and teach self control?

[FriedClams]

I only have two so feel free to throw this out! :-)

 

I would have a sit down with everyone and let them know what is and what isn't acceptable. Whining, hitting, ugliness, attitudes, etc. would all be outlined. If you have any lawyers - I'd let them know very clearly that the spirit of the law is what's important. Then they'd have consequences. We do extra chores (to show an attitude of service - sometimes doing the other kid's chores for them), or lose privileges, etc.

 

Then, I'd talk less and apply the consequences more. I think lecturing a six year old is like singing into the wind. In the example you gave - if a child whined and pitched a fit about a toy I would have them bag it up to donate it to someone who would appreciate it. I understand wanting to be older - but sometimes they aren't and that's life. I also wouldn't offer many alternatives - but let them come up with ideas on their own. "What do you think would be appropriate behavior here, buddy?" When they come up with the idea, they are more likely to own it.

 

One of my rules, especially with a justice kid, would be that any hitting would be disciplined. I don't care who started it. I don't care what happened. Hands are not for hitting. If you cannot control your body than you cannot be with anyone and you certainly don't get additional benefits (think computer, tv, playing in the yard, etc.). I don't send to their rooms, I keep them with me, usually working.

 

I think with a bit of consistency and really clear expectations you can calm a lot of it. I am praying it smooths out for you!!

[Runningmom80]

I only have two so feel free to throw this out! :-)

 

I would have a sit down with everyone and let them know what is and what isn't acceptable. Whining, hitting, ugliness, attitudes, etc. would all be outlined. If you have any lawyers - I'd let them know very clearly that the spirit of the law is what's important. Then they'd have consequences. We do extra chores (to show an attitude of service - sometimes doing the other kid's chores for them), or lose privileges, etc.

 

Then, I'd talk less and apply the consequences more. I think lecturing a six year old is like singing into the wind. In the example you gave - if a child whined and pitched a fit about a toy I would have them bag it up to donate it to someone who would appreciate it. I understand wanting to be older - but sometimes they aren't and that's life. I also wouldn't offer many alternatives - but let them come up with ideas on their own. "What do you think would be appropriate behavior here, buddy?" When they come up with the idea, they are more likely to own it.

 

One of my rules, especially with a justice kid, would be that any hitting would be disciplined. I don't care who started it. I don't care what happened. Hands are not for hitting. If you cannot control your body than you cannot be with anyone and you certainly don't get additional benefits (think computer, tv, playing in the yard, etc.). I don't send to their rooms, I keep them with me, usually working.

 

I think with a bit of consistency and really clear expectations you can calm a lot of it. I am praying it smooths out for you!!

 

 

This is good advice!

 

 

Op, my DS is just like your younger, his temper is very short, and unforgiving. :001_huh: I just keep trying to give him tools to deal with his anger. I think I'll start a list of chore he van do to work out his frustration, although, I expect that will just make him angrier. :001_smile:

[simka2]

I only have two so feel free to throw this out! :-)

 

I would have a sit down with everyone and let them know what is and what isn't acceptable. Whining, hitting, ugliness, attitudes, etc. would all be outlined. If you have any lawyers - I'd let them know very clearly that the spirit of the law is what's important. Then they'd have consequences. We do extra chores (to show an attitude of service - sometimes doing the other kid's chores for them), or lose privileges, etc.

 

Then, I'd talk less and apply the consequences more. I think lecturing a six year old is like singing into the wind. In the example you gave - if a child whined and pitched a fit about a toy I would have them bag it up to donate it to someone who would appreciate it. I understand wanting to be older - but sometimes they aren't and that's life. I also wouldn't offer many alternatives - but let them come up with ideas on their own. "What do you think would be appropriate behavior here, buddy?" When they come up with the idea, they are more likely to own it.

 

One of my rules, especially with a justice kid, would be that any hitting would be disciplined. I don't care who started it. I don't care what happened. Hands are not for hitting. If you cannot control your body than you cannot be with anyone and you certainly don't get additional benefits (think computer, tv, playing in the yard, etc.). I don't send to their rooms, I keep them with me, usually working.

 

I think with a bit of consistency and really clear expectations you can calm a lot of it. I am praying it smooths out for you!!

 

Thank you! I think I have been steering clear of discipline (immediately following an incidence), because I have not trusted myself not to be punitive and these 2 do not respond to punitive. They will in fact dig their heels in deeper. Hence the "discussions."

 

You nailed the 2nd youngest...complete "lawyer!" He is the child who will overhear me explain to one child why it is not okay to do something, work it backwards and justify his own punishing of a sibling because they violated the "law." :tongue_smilie:He is always about 2 steps ahead of me! Granted, we have a rule about them not taking discipline into their own hands, but sometimes they are quicker than I am. ;)

[Little Nyssa]

Simochka, I am a less experienced mom than you, but I just had one idea... I wonder if each of them needs a regular special attention-time with their parents, and then they would be able to let these aggravations slide or deal with them more easily? Maybe 6 yo could have a special set time doing a grown up activity with Dad? I mean a regular time that they could depend on. Maybe you already do this! But I think you have had a lot going on lately and I wonder if they are just overstressed.

Nyssa

[WishboneDawn]

 

Just now he asked his brother if he could play his DS, brother said, "No." I asked youngest where his Leapster Explore was and he responded with, "I do not want to play it it is babyish." :glare: I tried reassure him that it wasn't, but he just growled and whined.

 

What about validating what he says instead? I bet the temper after that is less about the DS and more about the fact that you denied what he was feeling about the Leapster. I don't think he wants reassurance about your POV, he wants acknowledgement of his.

 

Instead, what about, "You think it's babyish? Why?" He can give you his reasons and you can validate them, "I hadn't thought about it that way. It does sound a little babyish I guess." From there you might ask him if there are fun things about it or things that aren't babyish. You might ask him why he thinks his brother won't let him play his DS and if there's anything he can do that might make his brother more likely to let him play it. You might talk with him about a plan to get a DS of his own.

 

But if the only option is that his feelings abotu the situation is wrong and that's it, yeah, he'll get angry. :)

[8circles]

You've gotten some good advice & I have similar personalities here so I know how hard it is.

 

One thing I wanted to add is about your older who was playing DS. Just from what you've said, I would have a talk to your older about the way he treats the 6 yo. I know that if I asked someone if I could play with them & they just responded "no" I would feel pretty bad. I think that's kind-of disrespectful & even 6 yo's should get respect. This doesn't mean that the answer has to be "yes" but maybe a "oh, well how about I finish this game & then we can play a game together" or something like that.

 

HTH.

[simka2]

What about validating what he says instead? I bet the temper after that is less about the DS and more about the fact that you denied what he was feeling about the Leapster. I don't think he wants reassurance about your POV, he wants acknowledgement of his.

 

Instead, what about, "You think it's babyish? Why?" He can give you his reasons and you can validate them, "I hadn't thought about it that way. It does sound a little babyish I guess." From there you might ask him if there are fun things about it or things that aren't babyish. You might ask him why he thinks his brother won't let him play his DS and if there's anything he can do that might make his brother more likely to let him play it. You might talk with him about a plan to get a DS of his own.

 

But if the only option is that his feelings abotu the situation is wrong and that's it, yeah, he'll get angry. :)

 

You are right. I missed that opportunity :blush:. This is why I came to you guys, I knew there was something I was missing in these scenarios. Instead of diffusing I was adding to the heightened emotion.

Edited September 5, 2011 by simka2

[Tree House Academy]

I will be watching this thread. I have two boys ages 8 and 12 and they fight like cats and dogs...all.the.time. I am interested to read the advice you get...and I will keep your situation in my prayers. *hugs*

[simka2]

You've gotten some good advice & I have similar personalities here so I know how hard it is.

 

One thing I wanted to add is about your older who was playing DS. Just from what you've said, I would have a talk to your older about the way he treats the 6 yo. I know that if I asked someone if I could play with them & they just responded "no" I would feel pretty bad. I think that's kind-of disrespectful & even 6 yo's should get respect. This doesn't mean that the answer has to be "yes" but maybe a "oh, well how about I finish this game & then we can play a game together" or something like that.

 

HTH.

 

Yes, we need to work harder on respectful and loving responses. That is part of my dilemma, molding their hearts to "want to."

 

My older 2 are the complete opposite of these 2. Very nurturing and empathetic. :001_smile:

[8circles]

Yes, we need to work harder on respectful and loving responses. That is part of my dilemma, molding their hearts to "want to."

 

My older 2 are the complete opposite of these 2. Very nurturing and empathetic. :001_smile:

 

Believe me, I feel you. Model, model, model is really the only thing that works here.

[simka2]

Simochka, I am a less experienced mom than you, but I just had one idea... I wonder if each of them needs a regular special attention-time with their parents, and then they would be able to let these aggravations slide or deal with them more easily? Maybe 6 yo could have a special set time doing a grown up activity with Dad? I mean a regular time that they could depend on. Maybe you already do this! But I think you have had a lot going on lately and I wonder if they are just overstressed.

Nyssa

 

Yes, this has been lacking. I am going to have to put some thought into it. They haven't been getting extended one on one time, but we are good at capitilizing on intimate moments through out the day. Like hugging or holding a particular childs hand while going on a family walk.

[torikei]

Having multiple boys can be challenging at times. The good news is they are pretty predictable for the most part--unlike girls.

 

My best advice is "NO MERCY". I use this method for issues that have been talked to death. They know the rules. I assign the consequences. The key to making this work is never to give them a warning--just assign consequences in a very calm matter of fact manner. I would be very creative with consequences.

 

For out of control behaviors, I use time-ins where the child must stay within so many feet of me. They may do their homework, color, draw, etc. If I'm working in the kitchen, they sit at the kitchen table. I, also, like making them pay restitution for their behavior. They must think of something nice to do for the person they've harmed I think it's very important with boys to rarely raise your voice. Lower your voice if you're angry, becoming quieter really makes them pay attention which encourages respectful young men.

 

:grouphug: If it makes you feel any better, I notice the most problems right before they make a huge leap in their maturity.

 

Tori Shumake

[justamouse]

You got great advice. I have a 12 and 9 and the 9 is always wanting to do what the 12 is. But I would just say over and over to him-how long did brother have to wait to be able to do ____? well, then how long do you think you'll have to wait? Eventually it sunk in that he just can't do what his older brother is doing yet.

[Trish]

Is there any reason they can't share the DS? It seems the age limit here might be a little arbitrary.

[8circles]

Is there any reason they can't share the DS? It seems the age limit here might be a little arbitrary.

 

Oh, see now I was thinking of some kind of Wii-type machine. I don't have a DS so it didn't register what it was. I agree with Trish here. There doesn't seem to be any reason why your younger can't play the DS.

[bookfiend]

For the longer term training, Young Peacemaker, teaching students to respond to conflict God's Way, by Corlette Sande, has been invaluable to us.

 

It is geared for upper grammar and middle school, but I think you could easily adapt and begin the "big ideas." It could easily be the Bible Study portion of your school day.

[simka2]

Is there any reason they can't share the DS? It seems the age limit here might be a little arbitrary.

 

There are certain things I consider the childs possession. Sharing is a choice and I will not force them to most of the time. I will encourage it, show the benefits and consequences for not sharing, but it is still their choice.

 

For example we went to a park today that had a mini golf course, we did not bring any clubs or balls and the rental place was closed. I suggested they look around for lost balls and see what games they come up with. DS6 found a golf ball and would not share. Ds 9 came and tried to get me to force him to. I reminded him that he did not share his DS when he was asked to this morning and it was understandable that little brother would not want to share with now.

 

Then I took Wishbones Dawn's advice and asked ds what he thought he could say to his brother to entice him to share. He came up with apologizing for not sharing this morning, offering his DS when we got home and as a result ds6 willingly shared! :D All 3 boys played happily for over and hour.

[Denisemomof4]

I'm not sure how to advise but I did some things with my boys that worked VERY well. First of all, if ANYONE did something bad to another (hit, treat disrespectfully, destroy someone's stuff, etc) then that child automatically had to make up for it by doing something nice for that child. I've had one child do another's chores AND clean their room before, sometimes for a day, sometimes for a week. They HATED that and it worked VERY well.

 

The other thing that worked well for me was deducting time off of their awake time; going to bed earlier. I had a chart of what would add minutes to their bed time, what would take away from their bed time. The first day both my boys went to bed at 6:00. That's the ONLY day they did that. It really worked out well.

 

I know you don't want to be punitive, but if talking isn't working, sometimes different modes of discipline are needed. And sometimes talking and talking just isn't going to work. They hear the blah, blah, blah of it. They may hear you initially but then get glossed over.

[Denisemomof4]

Yes, this has been lacking. I am going to have to put some thought into it. They haven't been getting extended one on one time, but we are good at capitilizing on intimate moments through out the day. Like hugging or holding a particular childs hand while going on a family walk.

 

:iagree:

 

This is HUGE. I think it's SO important.

[WishboneDawn]

Then I took Wishbones Dawn's advice and asked ds what he thought he could say to his brother to entice him to share. He came up with apologizing for not sharing this morning, offering his DS when we got home and as a result ds6 willingly shared! :D All 3 boys played happily for over and hour.

 

Glad to hear it helped. :D

 

I don't always remember it myself but when I do I find it turns around the kids pretty fast.

[8circles]

There are certain things I consider the childs possession. Sharing is a choice and I will not force them to most of the time. I will encourage it, show the benefits and consequences for not sharing, but it is still their choice.

 

For example we went to a park today that had a mini golf course, we did not bring any clubs or balls and the rental place was closed. I suggested they look around for lost balls and see what games they come up with. DS6 found a golf ball and would not share. Ds 9 came and tried to get me to force him to. I reminded him that he did not share his DS when he was asked to this morning and it was understandable that little brother would not want to share with now.

 

Then I took Wishbones Dawn's advice and asked ds what he thought he could say to his brother to entice him to share. He came up with apologizing for not sharing this morning, offering his DS when we got home and as a result ds6 willingly shared! :D All 3 boys played happily for over and hour.

 

Gotcha.

 

I'm glad that it worked for you (that sounds snarky but I promise, it isn't). I don't want this to come across as arguing or me criticizing you because I'm not trying to do that. I believe 100% that what works for one family won't work for another. Just want to share what happened for us.

 

I used to handle the sharing thing much like you did in your example & many times it worked. As time went on, it backfired & stopped working entirely. The boys started to be really vindictive & really tit-for-tat. So we stopped doing that. Now I jump-in immediately as soon as these situations come-up & model to them appropriate ways to express themselves - no forced sharing at all. But I don't allow them to just say 'no'. They have to be polite about it. "No, I'm not willing to share _____ because ___________". It could be as simple as "it's my favorite toy" or "I'm afraid it would get broken" as long as it's honest & polite. Then we go from there. Sometimes we can make adjustments so that sharing can happen & sometimes that's just the way it is. For us, it has helped.

 

Anyway, just sharing what works here.

[claire up north]

Gotcha.

 

I used to handle the sharing thing much like you did in your example & many times it worked. As time went on, it backfired & stopped working entirely. The boys started to be really vindictive & really tit-for-tat. So we stopped doing that. Now I jump-in immediately as soon as these situations come-up & model to them appropriate ways to express themselves - no forced sharing at all. But I don't allow them to just say 'no'. They have to be polite about it. "No, I'm not willing to share _____ because ___________". It could be as simple as "it's my favorite toy" or "I'm afraid it would get broken" as long as it's honest & polite. Then we go from there. Sometimes we can make adjustments so that sharing can happen & sometimes that's just the way it is. For us, it has helped.

 

.

 

I really appreciate this idea! Thank you so much for sharing!!

[simka2]

Gotcha.

 

I'm glad that it worked for you (that sounds snarky but I promise, it isn't). I don't want this to come across as arguing or me criticizing you because I'm not trying to do that. I believe 100% that what works for one family won't work for another. Just want to share what happened for us.

 

I used to handle the sharing thing much like you did in your example & many times it worked. As time went on, it backfired & stopped working entirely. The boys started to be really vindictive & really tit-for-tat. So we stopped doing that. Now I jump-in immediately as soon as these situations come-up & model to them appropriate ways to express themselves - no forced sharing at all. But I don't allow them to just say 'no'. They have to be polite about it. "No, I'm not willing to share _____ because ___________". It could be as simple as "it's my favorite toy" or "I'm afraid it would get broken" as long as it's honest & polite. Then we go from there. Sometimes we can make adjustments so that sharing can happen & sometimes that's just the way it is. For us, it has helped.

 

Anyway, just sharing what works here.

 

Makes perfect sense :D. In the situation at the park I wasn't right there to hear ds6 say, "No." So, I could only coach the one, but I have already had multiple opportunities to implement the above this evening. :tongue_smilie:

 

Ds9 is now cleaning ds6 room because he threw ds6 monster truck against the fence when ds6 calmly said he couldn't play with it, because he had already been playing with it for 2 days...which was completely true. It is not that they can't share, but when they don't there is some serious lashing out. Basically, there is a lack of understanding that someone can refuse your request without a total meltdown. Ugggghhhhh......

Edited September 6, 2011 by simka2

[8circles]

but I have already had multiple opportunities to implement the above this evening. :tongue_smilie:

 

I know. Sometimes I wish there weren't so many opportunities to show how great of a parent I can be. 'Cause the reality is if I'm not 100% there then I'm not that great at all.

[Lawana]

Is it correct that your middle 2 are twins? And yet you refer to the "older 2" and the "younger 2," splitting the difference between sibs that are less than, what, an hour different in age? That is fascinating. If I were the younger twin, I would be quite frustrated in being assigned a "demoted" order, based on so little difference. On the other hand, I do understand that it is an inevitable distinction (think Isaac and Jacob). I would highly recommend the books about birth order by Kevin Lehman. The first born of each sex has characteristics associated with being eldest. In your family's case, it is complicated by the twin issue. I think it would be worth carefully considering the effect of being a younger twin.

[simka2]

Is it correct that your middle 2 are twins? And yet you refer to the "older 2" and the "younger 2," splitting the difference between sibs that are less than, what, an hour different in age? That is fascinating. If I were the younger twin, I would be quite frustrated in being assigned a "demoted" order, based on so little difference. On the other hand, I do understand that it is an inevitable distinction (think Isaac and Jacob). I would highly recommend the books about birth order by Kevin Lehman. The first born of each sex has characteristics associated with being eldest. In your family's case, it is complicated by the twin issue. I think it would be worth carefully considering the effect of being a younger twin.

 

I would never refer to him that way IRL. But on here it is helpful to make the distinction clear. The other twin has a completely different personality. I have to watch him because he tries to hard to be the family "hero" or "minidad."

[Lawana]

I would never refer to him that way IRL. But on here it is helpful to make the distinction clear. The other twin has a completely different personality. I have to watch him because he tries to hard to be the family "hero" or "minidad."

Of course. And isn't it interesting that the older twin has the personality of an oldest? I in no way was criticising. Just pointing out the dynamics that occur with birth order.

 

I think you are doing a great job, and applaud your efforts to work through your situation. :grouphug:

[simka2]

Of course. And isn't it interesting that the older twin has the personality of an oldest? I in no way was criticising. Just pointing out the dynamics that occur with birth order.

 

I think you are doing a great job, and applaud your efforts to work through your situation. :grouphug:

 

Gotcha ;). I used to teach some classes in our church on the Kevin Lehman books. It is really interesting how much is true. I still wonder how much is a result of parental and societal expectations, but having a set of identical twins with such vastly different personalities has been very interesting.

[Pamela H in Texas]

In your 6yr old's defense, you *didn't* hear him. He said he thought it was babyish and he wanted the "bigger kid" game. How about instead of assuring him his game isn't babyish, you said, "Oh, I think I hear you saying that you think it is for little kids, not big kids like you." See where it goes. He will probably calm down A LOT within a sentence or two, just validating his feelings because they ARE his whether you think he should have them or not.

 

I want you to know that I really don't hurry this part though. Sometimes, they are ready to run off and play and that is fine, but if you'll read my blog post from yesterday, you can see that sometimes the discussions that one thing turns into are very valuable. Also, even if it goes to talking about Nemo or Vikings from there, there is still the value of the connection between y'all.

 

Then you can help him find something to do, but I'd do it more in terms of "what do you think would be a good idea right now?" rather than a suggestion. If he needs help, you might throw out a handful of ideas. At this point, I like to add something CRAZY to lighten things up a little more.

 

With the older child, I would separate him from his sibling first, of course. It may be good for him to just sit next to you on the couch for a little bit til he can calm down. Don't stare him down. One good way to do this is to look where he is looking or opposite (like if he is looking down to the right, you look down to the left). That will allow y'all to meet glances or eyes when he's ready. When he calms down, find out what he's afraid of. ACTIVE LISTEN HERE. Do not get defensive for yourself or siblings. I would guess he may say something about how his brother gets away with too much or "how is he gonna learn how it feels?" or something like that. But listen to what he says. Restate what he says. Tell him "I hear you." Tell him, "tell me more" ESPECIALLY if he sounds angry still. Be willing to hear his anger and pain and fear.

 

Now, assuming he's a generally happy, healthy kid, you can probably, if you give him enough time to calm down and feel heard, discipline further. He needs to apologize. If sorry, great. If not, he can say, "I was wrong for....." Then he can do something for his sibling to make up for treating him poorly.

 

Of course, you'll then have to deal with the other kiddo similarly.

 

I think as your kids feel heard and understood as well as have some of their concern addressed, they'll come along. Though each situation this way takes longer (which is HARD when you have many kids, I *know*), the situations become fewer and further between as kids have their feelings validated and discipline at a calm time when they *can* learn from it.

 

HTHs,

[Lawana]

Gotcha ;). I used to teach some classes in our church on the Kevin Lehman books. It is really interesting how much is true. I still wonder how much is a result of parental and societal expectations, but having a set of identical twins with such vastly different personalities has been very interesting.

 

I bet it has! I saw a TV program once about identical quadruplets, and the oldest had the personality of an oldest, and the youngest of a youngest. Yet they shared the same DNA, so it really had to be all environment. I think our (the parents) unspoken, often unconscious, expectations have a way of showing up when we least expect them.