I don't understand grades--Am I missing something important--or have I evolved? (m)

[Alana in Canada]

I'm not sure if thinking "outside" of grade levels is really a good thing or not.

 

This became clear to me when I was reading about another mom's concerns about holding her son back. I realised as I read through the thread, that I really didn't understand the problem--and I wondered if I am missing something important?

 

My take on it is that certain skills need to be taught at certain times, when a child is ready. Math is the clearest example: I follow a curriculuum with numbers on the front, (grade levels, though I don't tell the kids that) but I'm not terribly worried about them. I would like to have any given number completed in any given year--just because that keeps me on track and accountable for the kids' learning. But we progress more or less at his or her pace.

 

But, I can't help but wonder, especially when we don't have such a well defined curriculum like math to work from, such as "literature study" which we don't do, if I'm missing something important? I find it terribly difficult, for example, to take my son, 10, further than dictation, at the moment. I quess I don't have a clear idea what he *should* be doing at his age, level, grade, whatever.

 

FYI--my kids are 10 and 7, and I'm focusing heavily on grammar stage skills--copywork, narrations, grammar, spelling, and arithmatic. We're just starting outlining from the KHE with the older one.

Our "content" courses include SoTW2, Cdn History, Bible, Latin and an active study on the human body.

 

What do you think?

Will I miss something by not thinking of things in terms of "grade"--or, more precisely, grade level?

[umarider]

Let me start by saying what we all know; that the beauty of HSing is being able work at each student's level.

 

When I started HSing last year, I first went to the Maryland State Standards site and downloaded the standards for the grades my DDs would be in, then used that information to guide my curriculum choices. I say "guide" because I have 2 very different learners. One flies through stuff, while the other got a rough start in PS in California and has needed a lot of special attention to get her confidence & skills up.

 

This year I started w/ WTM, and have only gone to the MDk12 site recently to get a better idea of where I should/could be going with our writing program. I am comfortable w/ the progress being made in all other areas using WTM as my basic guide.

 

If you are curious about what kids in the PS equivilent "grade" would be doing, check out the standards for Maryland. They are higher than those I encountered during our time in California, but I don't know how they stack up next to other US states. http://www.mdk12.org/instruction/curriculum/reading/index.html (click on the grade you are interested in, or under the heading of "Instruction", choose another subject area to look into)

 

Again, just use the site to get a feel for what PS grades are doing. I wouldn't get too fixated on what schools are doing. (For one thing, they have a very different selection of curriculum to use) And keep in mind that standards are goals. Some schools in a state will achieve those goals, while others will not.

 

I hope this was helpful.

[Rhesa]

I love homeschooling, but I am also aware that I may not do it forever. My husband reluctantly agreed to homeschooling, and I agreed that we would decide each year whether or not this is the best decision for our children and our family.

 

That is why I keep in mind that my children may one day be in a classroom setting. So it influences how I think about my homeschool. What "grade" to report my daughter to the school district means something- if she does go to school at some point, how will being young/old for her grade affect her?

 

These are just my issues- others may have different reasons. But I just thought I'd explain why grade level matters to me. HTH!

[MelissaM]

Neither grades nor grade matters very much in a homeschool setting. In hs you are where you are and you don't get moved until it's time to get moved. Your teacher is devoted, caring, and engaged. She carefully plans your studies and monitors your academic successes and struggles. There are no molds to fit.

 

The school system has a much different philosophy. They don't have the luxury of time nor, most, the desire to wait for maturity and mastery. They have to cover what needs to be covered for "the tests". Each nine weeks is planned for "the tests" and it doesn't really matter much whether or not you get it.

 

I'm not trying to be harsh. It just is the way it is. We are feeling it very much right now with 3 of my 4 being in ps.

[Wendy in ME]

I am perfectly comfortable teaching what needs to be taught when they are ready but they will join the real world someday by hopefully going on to college. Grade level matters when you are deciding when to take the standardized tests, putting together a transcript, fitting all of the graduation requirements for college admissions. If I am consistently teaching about a grade level behind then shouldn't I plan on an extra year of school?

[Melora in NC]

My reasons for caring about grade level are partly Rhesa's -- life is uncertain, and my kids Might have to attend ps someday, and I would feel terrible if they were really behind other kids their ages, and partly because my ds will be 17 when he finishes 12th grade and if I had kept him back rather than starting K when we did, we'd have had an extra year to shelter him and let him mature. (This second point is probably irrelevant to the question, but it is a regret of mine relating to grade.) As far as school work goes, we work where the kids are in terms of ability, but I do want their reading, writing, and math skills to be around (or beyond) where their ps peers are.

[Linda in NM]

I realized this year that my son is somewhere between traditional 8th and 9th grade work...so we tried to get the hockey associations to let him move up to highschool (he's large, he's better than most of the highschool goalies in the state at 13, he's mature, his friends play, there was a need for goalies, etc.) No go.

 

The only reason I'd use grade levels is in terms of the national schooling mentality, whether it be public or private. I do not want my son in college at 16, though, so I'm sticking with the "traditional" view that 13 year olds are in 8th grade.

[Ellie]

I have never figured it out, either. Of course, my first introduction to homeschooling was all of John Holt's books, including "Teach Your Own." None of them referred to grade levels at all, only to the process of learning.

 

After many years of administering an umbrella school, I did come up with a policy regarding grade levels, because of some problems a few of my families had with tweaking their dc's grade levels: Whenever there needed to be a grade level assignation, it was always the grade level the dc would have been in if they'd been in school, according to their birthdays and the cut-off date in California (6 by December 2 to enter first grade in the fall)...no exceptions.

 

This has nothing to do, of course, with what the dc were learning, or when they learned it, or anything else. You teach the children at the level they are capable of, regardless of what "grade" they are "in." When they finish that, you move on. There's nothing magical about "starting" in the fall when the dc are "in first grade," either.

 

It always surprises me when hsers talk about their "2nd graders" or their "5th graders." Sometimes they even have to think for a minute when I ask them how old their dc are. I'm not even sold on 12 years as being the prescribed number of years a child must be "in school." This is a new concept in the history of formal education.

 

And these are the confessions of an unschooler on a Tuesday morning.;)

[Riverfront Headmistress]

My kids like to know their grade level - when they meet a new friend stating their grade level is often one of the first things they say.

[Susie in CA]

I never get it either.

 

I do see that if my kids will need to PS this may be important. I am not really convinced that it is, though. My kids know what Grade they are in so that they can answer other peoples questions. That's it.

 

Susie

[Ellie]

to designate a grade level for a homeschooled child :-)

 

My kids like to know their grade level - when they meet a new friend stating their grade level is often one of the first things they say.

 

I used to eyeball my dc in the fall and say, "Dear, you are now in [insert appropriate grade level]. Go forth and be blessed." Otherwise, we just moved on to the next thing whenever they were ready, which could have been any time during the 365 days of the year.

[Wendy in ME]

I really feel like the lower unevolved life form now. I never expected to be judged by asking a question trying to do the right thing for my ds. I have gotten so much help reading this board over the past year and have recently felt comfortable enough to ask and give advise without expecting holier than thou responses. Whether you want to admit it or not, grade does matter when children transfer to the outside world and I just wanted to see if others have dealt with this before. If you have not or have nothing to contribute, why do you feel the need to insult those of us who do feel it is important? I certainly only contribute to posts where I can contribute something constructive. I will definitely think twice before asking for personal advice on this board again.:(

[Kathy in MD]

My ds is in the 7th grade and that means I have one more year to get his basic skills up before I have to start grading for transcripts. It means that within a year and a half, the state homeschool requirements will change. It means that at the end of next year we have to decide if ds will go to either public or private high school, because it's much easier to enter in the 9th grade than later. And I don't have the luxury of "holding" him back a year because we've already done that once and his birthday's in spring.

[frogpond1]

I'm in one who does, and without a grade level that would be difficult. I also think grades 9th grade and up will be key to college entrance. Maybe grades and grade levels don't matter for elementary, but what about high school graduation? The classes you choose will be important to high school also. I just think I still need to work within the legal system I live in. Perhaps that is too strict, but for me it won't hurt being prepared to give account for the work in each grade level.

[Philothea]

Most states and provinces have or should have a curriculum framework that is available on the web. This gives a pretty clear idea of what is expected by the state at each grade level. They seem pretty high and lofty compared with what public schools actually accomplish, but I think they are a good guidline.

 

I saw someone posted a link to theirs in MD, but we also have one here in MA: http://www.doe.mass.edu/frameworks/current.html

 

I found it really helpful in selecting types of literature, so that at minimum my children will have read many of the same works that the PS kids are familiar with.

 

I don't follow much of a grade level other than with what work they are doing and I don't plan on doing so in the future. But we live in a state with high regulations, so I like to keep up with and above ps standards.

[dangermom]

We do use grade levels--my daughter is in 2nd grade. She likes to know what to say to people, and how she relates to her PS friends (which is most of them, there aren't a lot of homeschoolers here). That has very little to do with the actual work that she's doing, but it's a convenient way to tell people where we are and make them happy.

 

So I don't know that you'll miss anything; it's just a convenient thing to say.

 

 

I really feel like the lower unevolved life form now. I never expected to be judged by asking a question trying to do the right thing for my ds.

I am confused by this comment.

[Wendy in ME]

I'm sorry I over reacted. I guess it was the reference to being evolved if you are beyond designating grade levels. I am having an absolutely horrible day with my 9yo ds who should be 4th grade and I'm afraid that I spoke in frustration. Please all accept my apology. I really do appreciate this board so much. I just don't know what to do with this particular child right now and I don't know any other HS families up here in Maine.

[Karenciavo]

I'm sorry I over reacted. I guess it was the reference to being evolved if you are beyond designating grade levels. I am having an absolutely horrible day with my 9yo ds who should be 4th grade and I'm afraid that I spoke in frustration. Please all accept my apology. I really do appreciate this board so much. I just don't know what to do with this particular child right now and I don't know any other HS families up here in Maine.

 

It is perfectly understandable that you would take it that way.

[Jenny in Atl]

I've never understood grade levels even when I was a kid in school. They are based on age, right? There were always kids at one end of the bell curve and others at the other end with the rest scattered about in the middle. It's so impossible to have all kids produce the same academically according to their age. We all don't begin walking at the same age or talking, etc. Why does our (US...can't speak for other areas but would love to hear non-US thoughts) system still use this? US public schools were founded to train workers for factories and mills as the country transitioned from an agriculturally based economy to one focused on goods and labor/services. Now we live in a different world again, where it's ideas and services that lead the way; it's ashame our (US Government's) ideas of education have not changed as well. That said, if my kids did go back to school I would be clueless as to where they should go - but I most likely would put them with their age peers as this where they would feel the most pressure to "fit in."

[Alana in Canada]

My sincerest apologies for the "evolved" reference. After I posted it late last night, I went back to edit it out--or at least put a smilie behind it to signal I meant it purely tongue in cheek, but the "edit" function does not extend to post titles.

 

As well, I'm reading "Left Back" by Diane Ravitch right now, and I'm pretty anti-public school at the moment!

 

But I want to say thanks all for your help on this: I have looked at our provinces scope and sequence and standards, and frankly, I don't understand them, at all. So, they are not very helpful. I realise that the world isn't perfect and that we may have to send the kids back to ps, so it may be useful to know.

[Excelsior! Academy]

My oldest 3 all started in the public school system. My second oldest was tested by the district and skipped a grade. She probably could've skipped two, but there is NO way I would've allowed her to do that! That said mine are very aware of their grade levels. Now that we are homeschooling, it is hard to remove that. It is also the first question anyone asks of them.

 

I honestly wish it were not that way because I think they need to stay at home as long as they need to to mature and learn.