shinyhappypeople Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 She had them semi-learned last year (at least the 0 to 5 or 6 facts), but over the summer they leaked from her brain and now we're starting almost at square one. I switched her to MUS to give her a more conceptual approach and it makes her cry :( She just.can't.do.it. If I hold her hand and walk her through almost every problem she can get the +9 problems (9 wants to be 10, etc.) She does okay memorizing by rote (at least in the short-term, with constant review). But when asked to look at something conceptually... forget about it. Tears. Panic. Shaking (literally). It's like something isn't clicking in her brain. I don't know what to do. I don't want to buy yet another curriculum or product. Feeling a little out of my depth... any ideas or suggestions on how to help her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenjenn Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 http://www.xtramath.org Have her do it every day, independently, in addition to whatever math curriculum you are using. You, as parent, watch the progress reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenjenn Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Sample parent report: The student interface is also very crisp, clean, free of unnecessary distractions, and friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmall Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) www.xtramath.org Have her do it every day, independently, in addition to whatever math curriculum you are using. You, as parent, watch the progress reports. I looked at this website and it looks great! I think I am going to use this with both my kids! Thanks for sharing.:) I second the motion to have her practice as much as possible. My oldest had a hard time with remembering her math facts, and forgeting them over the summer, but lots of practice and review helped. The other thing we did was to use movement to help her remember. To learn how to skip count we would count and march and clap our hands. Somehow the movement helps lots of kids to get the information into their brains better. We also used throwing a ball back and forth, with saying math facts. AL Edited August 23, 2011 by asmall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) She has to keep practicing. Even though we took summer 'off' we practiced math facts most of the summer so they wouldn't forget. As for curriculum. Right now you need to use a spiral curriculum. I had one daughter like that (my 2nd) and we went through the same exact thing. I tortured her for years with conceptual math. Because that's what everyone here says is the "right" way to learn math. Well I finally caved in and bought Saxon at the time and she has improved in math quite a bit. I've now switched to Christian Light because I like the way the math is set up and the fact it does include conceptual math, in bite sized pieces, and so much so that the child doesn't know they are learning some conceptual math at the same time. I'm sure at some point the conceptual math may make sense to her. I'm going to try out LIfe of Fred just to see. But we'll keep on with the spiral type math programs until my daughter is very confident in what she is doing first. I'd rather do that then have her in tears any day of the weak. That's what homeschooling is about anyways. Using what works for our kids. Plus once I did switch to a spiral math program we had catch up because she was so far behind. Edited August 23, 2011 by TracyR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 http://www.xtramath.org Have her do it every day, independently, in addition to whatever math curriculum you are using. You, as parent, watch the progress reports. :iagree: This has helped my kids tremendously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 We played counting and adding games. My kids especially liked Math War. (You can easily play addition war or multiplication war). The rules are similar to the card game War--you each start out with half a deck of cards. Instead of flipping over only one card and letting the highest card take both, you each turn over 2 cards, and add them together. The highest sum wins. If there is a tie, then it's a "War." Deal 3 cards off your pile face-down, and then turn up 2 more cards--highest sum wins ALL 14 cards. This was my kids' favorite way to drill. We also used the Math-U-See website for drill as they have online drills. Sometimes I printed out worksheets for easy drill too. Start with easy ones for her and gradually work up. Are you sure you started her in the right MUS level? Sorry it's so hard right now! (((Hugs))) Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 thanks for all the suggestions. Please keep them coming, I'm all ears! Merry, we're in Alpha. She hasn't memorized her math facts and struggles with subtracting bigger numbers. For example, in her former math program, she almost started to cry when asked to do problems like 15-9. She got upset and refused to use counters or other manipulatives. I offered to walk her through it step by step, show her how to do each part, but she wouldn't let me. After that happened, I thought she just wasn't truly understanding subtraction, so we'd start over, review, reinforce, etc. It's breaking my heart. When we break out math her anxiety level skyrockets (tears in her eyes, trembling). We were using McRuffy, which she loved, but we hit a wall with that program. She simply stopped being able to do the math (e.g. the 15-9 problem). Prior to McRuffy, we'd tried Singapore and Houghton-Mifflin (school textbook). Both were failures. She reacted the same was as she is now. One thing she mentioned is that she's overwhelmed by the amount of numbers on the worksheet pages in MUS. So, I was thinking that I should look at the workbook and write each problem out, one at a time, for her on her whiteboard. When she does the problem, she can erase it and we'll do another... and keep going until we're done or she starts to show signs of anxiety. She'll only see one problem at a time. Maybe that will help. Last night, while helping my DH put up a shed, he started rattling off measurements to her. She wrote the numbers down on scratch paper, did some addition and correctly sketched out the footprint of the shed. But formal math? She freezes. It's weird. I wish I could understand what was happening with her. :( I feel like crying. Her confidence is shot, she tells me she's stupid, her little sister is catching up to her (actually little sister has passed her, but older DD doesn't realize it yet) and she "hates" reading and math and is bad at both things. (not true!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 In addition to the other suggestions, I would have her make a grid for her facts, and then let her use it while she's doing her math problems and see if that helps with the anxiety. (Keep working on learning them, but separate that from working on the formal math). FWIW, one of my dc was probably in 6th grade before she had all of her facts memorized. Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 http://www.xtramath.org Have her do it every day, independently, in addition to whatever math curriculum you are using. You, as parent, watch the progress reports. Wow! I just went to the website -- it looks like the answer to my dreams. Thank you for posting!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Conceptual programs were not a good fit with my son when he was younger. We went through many tears with Rightstart and Singapore before we found R&S. R&S was it for him. He needed the rote practice and drill in the younger years and now he has a very good understanding of math and does quite well with it. Also, we have never taken a break from math over the summer. He is going into 6th grade this year and he has never had a summer break from math (and never will if I can help it :001_smile:). Some years, he would continue with R&S over the summer and others, I'd have him do a level of Singapore or something else that was equivalent to whatever he had already done in R&S, just to mix things up a little. He also did math fact practice on the computer every day until last year, when I let him cut back to 2X/week. I've used a math fact software program with both my kids starting in K and it has really helped to get them into their memories. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 He also did math fact practice on the computer every day until last year, when I let him cut back to 2X/week. I've used a math fact software program with both my kids starting in K and it has really helped to get them into their memories. Lisa Can you let us know what math fact software? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I like SM for my math-challenged child. But I use the games and extra exercises in the TM, plus I supplement with MM (topic books), extra worksheets, games, etc. I've enjoyed seeing the comments and ideas here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leav97 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Merry, we're in Alpha. She hasn't memorized her math facts and struggles with subtracting bigger numbers. For example, in her former math program, she almost started to cry when asked to do problems like 15-9. If she is in 3rd grade and struggling with 15-9, I would start at the beginning and build up her confidence. I don't know much about MUS, I'm guessing by the name Alpha that it is the first level. I like the idea of putting the problems on a dry erase board. You could also add in more review by using the blue series from Math Mammoth. http://www.mathmammoth.com/addition_1.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 My 8yo can recall facts easily if he's using them, but flashcards or just plain drill pages baffle him. Seriously. He is much better off with several problems of 4 digit addition. When he was younger, he went through several 1st grade currics until those facts were down pat...but still gets dizzy when expected to prattle off math facts...even though he *uses* them with ease. I think I would try giving her a addition chart to use while you move on with math. I'd give her fewer problems per day, but make sure she was adding and subtracting *daily.* If working them in isolation is what she's dragging on now, try doing more word problems...things that she can visualize. My ds struggles with math on worksheets, and we do a lot orally and on the board. sigh! (TEACHER INTENSIVE!!!):grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Can you let us know what math fact software? It's Fastt Math and it's pricey, but I think we've gotten our money's worth since I've been using it for 5 years now with two kids. http://www.tomsnyder.com/fasttmath/index.html I bought it after I heard about it on the ldonline forums and it was presented as being very effective for children with lds. However, my dd is a very strong student and has really benefitted from it as well. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Merry, we're in Alpha. She hasn't memorized her math facts and struggles with subtracting bigger numbers. For example, in her former math program, she almost started to cry when asked to do problems like 15-9. She got upset and refused to use counters or other manipulatives. I offered to walk her through it step by step, show her how to do each part, but she wouldn't let me. After that happened, I thought she just wasn't truly understanding subtraction, so we'd start over, review, reinforce, etc. Your poor daughter, I'm sorry! Something else my kids liked was when I would do problems orally and use food items. So, for the problem 15-9, I'd say, "Let's say that I have 15 cookies, and you eat 9 of them. How many do I have left now?" I interject a face that pretends I'm mock-upset at them eating my cookies. They love word problems that involve them eating my food especially, LOL! If you can find something that makes it seem fun to her, then maybe it won't be so overwhelming. I've also used edible manipulatives like raisins, peanuts, cheerios, chocolate chips, M&M's and so on. One thing she mentioned is that she's overwhelmed by the amount of numbers on the worksheet pages in MUS. So, I was thinking that I should look at the workbook and write each problem out, one at a time, for her on her whiteboard. When she does the problem, she can erase it and we'll do another... and keep going until we're done or she starts to show signs of anxiety. She'll only see one problem at a time. Maybe that will help. I think this is a great idea! Do you think it's the black and white nature of the MUS pages? Her statement about the amount of numbers on a page makes me wonder if she could have a vision processing issue (not a regular vision issue). It might be worth checking out www.covd.org and seeing any of the symptoms listed sound like her. I have a son who benefitted immensely from vision therapy. Last night, while helping my DH put up a shed, he started rattling off measurements to her. She wrote the numbers down on scratch paper, did some addition and correctly sketched out the footprint of the shed. . Ok, another idea--is she an auditory learner? This makes me wonder if you can't do math orally for awhile--you dictate, she writes it down and figures it. What do you think? I feel like crying. Her confidence is shot, she tells me she's stupid, her little sister is catching up to her (actually little sister has passed her, but older DD doesn't realize it yet) and she "hates" reading and math and is bad at both things. (not true!) (((Hugs))) Make sure you praise her for what an awesome job she did on the shed project with dad, and how well she sketched out the footprint etc... She sounds like a bright girl who either needs an approach that better fits her style, or perhaps has some glitches to work through. Help her to see her gifts, we all have strengths and weaknesses, and some things are just going to take more practice than other things, and that's ok. Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 It's Fastt Math and it's pricey, but I think we've gotten our money's worth since I've been using it for 5 years now with two kids. http://www.tomsnyder.com/fasttmath/index.html I bought it after I heard about it on the ldonline forums and it was presented as being very effective for children with lds. However, my dd is a very strong student and has really benefitted from it as well. Lisa Thank you -- I will look at it. We have Tom Snyder's Timeliner XE and find it to be a very useful program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Popping back in to say thank you for all these great suggestions. I signed her up for xtra math (what a cool program!) and am totally rethinking our approach to math. I'm thinking of restarting her in McRuffy, which is about as non-threatening as they come, as soon as she has a better handle on subtraction. Then, on my own time, I'll watch the MUS videos so I can teach the concepts better (the concepts she needs for McRuffy). Did that make sense? Deep breathing... it's okay... this isn't a race... she is where she is... progress not perfection... more deep breaths... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Has anyone had any success with making number or fact family books. DD is SUPER crafty and loves making things. I'm thinking about picking a number (e.g. 6) and having her make a book about 6, ways you can add up to 6 (1+5, etc), maybe subtracting 6? I don't know. I haven't thought this through totally. I'm just brainstorming right now. OH, also, has anyone used lapbooking to teach math? I see Hands of a Child has an addition lapbook. I own Dinah Zike's Big Book of Math (has "foldables") and MathArt. I need to dust them off and see what I can come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veggiegal Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 If she's crafty, she might enjoy Fact Flowers. We did them a couple years back: http://educatingrisa.com/2010/02/26/math-art-fact-flowers/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerPoppy Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I think your ideas are great, and it's going to be fine! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkwynn Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 www.xtramath.org Have her do it every day, independently, in addition to whatever math curriculum you are using. You, as parent, watch the progress reports. Yes! We love xtramath! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeBlessings Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) Have you watched the free videos by Maria Miller-the author of Math Mammoth? They really helped me alot. I recommend watching the strategies for addition and subtraction, as well as the teaching multiplication video. I know she isn't to multiplication yet, but you may find the method helpful. I tweaked the method slightly and it helped my children tremendously when it came to memorizing the facts. This is one area where consistent practice is definitely key, even after we think they 'got it'. After she is showing proficiency maybe incorporate 2 board problems a day or 3-5 minutes with Math dice, or something short and sweet. Use it or lose it is so true! :) Edited August 27, 2011 by ThreeBlessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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