Patty Paper Geometry vs. Rightstart Geometric Approach

[melmichigan]

Does anyone have any thoughts comparing or contrasting these two programs, or experiences with either?

Edited August 21, 2011 by melmichigan

[PeterPan]

I own them both but haven't looked at the RS G in a while. It was one of those things I picked up at one point and thought we'd do someday. I like the PPG as well. RS G is written totally to the student and involves lots of drawing. PPG is folding and learning from the folds, no drawing at all. I think for my student it would be more beneficial to do PPG first and RS G later. Dr. Cotter specifically intended RS G to cover all the basics of a high school geometry class without the proofs as a way of giving them an edge in testing. Personally, I think geometry isn't done enough in school. It seems like they do it one year and forget basically. So I could see doing something, a light touch, several times over the next few years.

 

But whatever. Like I said, I haven't looked at either in a while. You can see samples on CBD and of course RS's website. The feedback has been that it got monotonous to do a year straight of the RS G, so I've always planned just to use it as a supplement, something we'd go in and out of.

[melmichigan]

I own them both but haven't looked at the RS G in a while. It was one of those things I picked up at one point and thought we'd do someday. I like the PPG as well. RS G is written totally to the student and involves lots of drawing. PPG is folding and learning from the folds, no drawing at all. I think for my student it would be more beneficial to do PPG first and RS G later. Dr. Cotter specifically intended RS G to cover all the basics of a high school geometry class without the proofs as a way of giving them an edge in testing. Personally, I think geometry isn't done enough in school. It seems like they do it one year and forget basically. So I could see doing something, a light touch, several times over the next few years.

 

But whatever. Like I said, I haven't looked at either in a while. You can see samples on CBD and of course RS's website. The feedback has been that it got monotonous to do a year straight of the RS G, so I've always planned just to use it as a supplement, something we'd go in and out of.

 

Thank you for the input. Whatever we choose will be supplemental as well. It sounds more like the PPG could be done more as a summer project or if we finish a book early (I have a semester to play with) and the RS G done over two years in addition to our regular math?

[PeterPan]

I'll try to pull them out later tonight. Bug me if I forget. :)

[Sunshine State Sue]

I know nothing about RS Geometry. Is it a full year program?

 

We used Patty Paper Geometry and loved it (and that is a huge compliment from ds). It is a supplement. We used it during our 2nd year of Algebra (8th), but if I could do it over again, I would have used it during our 1st year of Algebra (because the 1st year was easier). Here are some threads:

Please tell me about Patty Paper Geometry

Patty Paper Geometry

Can you tell me about Patty Paper Geometry?

 

HTH!

[GailV]

Dr. Cotter specifically intended RS G to cover all the basics of a high school geometry class without the proofs as a way of giving them an edge in testing.

 

Older dd completed RightStart G (yes, it's a full year program), moved on to pre-algebra and algebra 1, then did Jacob's Geometry. She thought Jacob's was pretty easy due to all of the work from RightStart -- she already knew the basic ideas, it was just a matter of learning to write the proofs.

 

On the other hand, if RS G is used alone, as we did, there's a definite possibility the student will forget how to do fractions percents and decimals, which dd also did. She really needed to review those concepts. It would be wise to use RS G with another program, which is what we're doing with younger dd.

 

I've never used the Patty Paper.

 

Full disclosure: Older dd is quite good at spacial relationships. We do a lot of jigsaw puzzles, origami, and tangrams, plus 3D puzzles, legos, etc. That might have made Jacob's easy for her as well ... but she specifically, spontaneously mentioned RS G as being extremely helpful as she was finishing up Jacob's.

[Capt_Uhura]

RS Geo was written to be a 2yr program. Originally, Dr. Cotter intended to write RS an Algebraic Approach which would be used at the same time as RS Geo. Alas, it was never written.

[PeterPan]

Well if you want to go back that far, go back a little farther and remember when she wanted to write *3* years of material so that all three could rotate within the years and pan out at the end having gotten the student through fractions, geometry, and pre-algebra.

 

I don't know why those never got written. They're doing well enough financially. I lost track with them after we moved on.

[Capt_Uhura]

WOW I didn't know about the 3 years of material! I guess I don't go back that far! :lol: My point was that I think RS Geo crunched down into 1year would be a bit monotonous. And to do it alone, as one poster mentioned, arithmetic skills would decline.

[Mom0012]

I haven't looked at Patty Paper, but I have held RS G in my hands and even done a few lessons with my daughter. I had hoped to do that this year with her, and then decided to wait until 5th grade because I want to give her one more year to make sure she's really solidified all the basics before adding in RS G. Plus, it's expensive.

 

I would not use it as her only math for the reasons others have stated. My plan is to let her do it twice a week and finish it over two years. I look at it as an enjoyable supplement. She likes math and has very strong visual spatial skills. She also loves to draw, so I think RS G would be a great fit for her.

 

Lisa

[PeterPan]

Oh man, I'm such a sloth. I went downstairs this morning, when I had a few minutes, thinking I'd pull the RS G and look at it. I did, but somehow that turned into this whole adventure in cleaning the closet, etc. etc... So y'all made me miss my day at the park, you hear? :)

 

Seriously, I didn't have time to find my PPG. RS G I did look through a bit. It really surprised me, as it wasn't like I remembered. It's more way-out there, typical Cotter-style. So you're talking about Fibonnaci rules and number patterns and whatnot. I'll have to go back and look at the toc, and see if it really reflects what the lessons were. I'm just saying the *thought process* was pretty sophisticated on them. Some of the actual content was easy, and some distinctly WASN'T. And it was the sort of thing that, looking at it, I thought would be a shame to do too early and have it be forgotten. (I don't know if you guys had that with your kids, but my dd really came into her own this year as a human being. I think much of the past is filed in a different folder.)

 

I guess that got you a bunch of no-where, eh? The PPG is going to be accessible and terrific for all kinds of kids, just as I recall from looking at it. It was very typical in sequence and coverage, typical to what you'd expect in a geometry text. And in fact the author of PPG has a fuller, high school level geometry text. It was discovery-oriented and uses folding. Short lessons. RS G is just more out there, more theoretical. You've got platonic solids and just all kinds of stuff. It would really need to scratch the itch of that particular child, kwim?

 

Well maybe I can dig out PPG later. Like I said, I'm in no hurry. Probably, given what I saw today, my inclination will be to do PPG with algebra and do RS G after that. But I'm not sure it's a crime to do it the other way. If the child wants to do RS G first, by all means let them. It's definitely something they can walk right into and just do.

[Sunshine State Sue]

but somehow that turned into this whole adventure in cleaning the closet, etc. etc...

 

:lol:

 

And in fact the author of PPG has a fuller, high school level geometry text.

We used Discovering Geometry by Michael Serra/Key Curriculum Press last year very successfully. It is more hands-on than most high school Geometry programs.

[GailV]

Well if you want to go back that far, go back a little farther and remember when she wanted to write *3* years of material so that all three could rotate within the years and pan out at the end having gotten the student through fractions, geometry, and pre-algebra.

 

I don't know why those never got written. They're doing well enough financially. I lost track with them after we moved on.

 

Yep, I remember the 3 year concept. And, for the record, my RS G is a bunch of loose sheets in a binder. The pages at the end were shipped to us separately because the program wasn't fully written when we purchased. So I think there was tweaking after we got it and before it was printed up in a more finished form.

 

As for scratching the itch of a particular child, as OhElizabeth put it, my older dd insisted on finishing Jacob's Geometry by doing the final chapter on non-Euclidean geometries even though that chapter isn't on the syllabus we were using (I think we were using Dr. Callahan -- sad that I've forgotten so quickly) because, "I might not get another chance to study this for awhile." Sort of gives you an idea of her priorities and interests.

[Capt_Uhura]

I am not buying more math curriculum...nope i'm not gonna do it and you can't make me.

[Mom-ninja.]

 

 

We used Discovering Geometry by Michael Serra/Key Curriculum Press last year very successfully. It is more hands-on than most high school Geometry programs.

 

 

I found this thread because we're now finishing RS level E, and I'm wondering if I should start RS G now or do PPG first. :)

 

I didn't know Michael Serra had a high school geometry. Good to know.

[happycc]

for geometry with proofs? My 17yo in struggling in geometry. It is taught with proofs at his high school. I want to help him somehow. He is getting a C- even with a tutor.