My 7 yr old and her MATH

[CarenM]

I honestly don't know what to do anymore. She has such struggles with basic math and yet is so smart in every other area.

 

We have tried Saxon and Math Mommath.

 

Should I try MUS or TT 3 next?

 

I gave her placement tests for both and in TT she made it to level 3 and MUS Beta.

[Hedgehog]

I honestly don't know what to do anymore. She has such struggles with basic math and yet is so smart in every other area.

 

We have tried Saxon and Math Mommath.

 

Should I try MUS or TT 3 next?

 

I gave her placement tests for both and in TT she made it to level 3 and MUS Beta.

 

I only know about Saxon, really. What level did she try?

[CarenM]

She has done Saxon 1 and 2.

 

I think she needs a mastery approach.

[Karen in CO]

and what part of math does she struggle with?

[CarenM]

Simple basic addition/ subtraction. I juswt don't feel she has mastered . I will ask her what 15 minus 6 is and it takes her forever

[RahRah]

She has done Saxon 1 and 2.

 

I think she needs a mastery approach.

 

Have you looked at Singapore Math?

[CarenM]

I have but honestly don't think Singapore would work for her .

[Mommee & Baba]

My dd8 is strong in so many other subjects too. When it comes to her math she really struggles with knowing the facts on the fly. If I give her a few mintues she'll figure it out but I guess I'm more relaxed with her as I don't expect her to master the facts of math in her head EVER, because I'm almost 30 and still it takes me a few longer seconds than most to figure it out. Maybe she just isn't skilled in that area and in my opinion if she KNOWS how to find the answer, that's all that matters. In time she'll get quicker. Last year my dd didn't know 2+2 in 10 seconds (and my dd6 knew 2+2 almost immediately after she learned it), but this year she knows it nearly IMMEDIATELY. It's because we practice. And I don't "quiz" her in the manner most would think. I make it fun, sing and be silly about it. Same with multipication. She knows her multipaction facts much quicker than she first did her addition/subtraction facts. I think it's like warming up that skill.

 

Keep trucking and STICK to a program. Not staying consistant in a math program could be part of the problem. Once we stuck to our math program and just did some little reviews over dinner with our beans or with our ice cream scoops in bowls for the family...it got much better.

 

I hope things get easier for the both of you. I can only imagine it's as frustrating for her as it is you too. Just enjoy that she IS learning, because she CAN find the answer...whether it comes in 1:59 seconds, instead of 10 seconds.

[CarenM]

My dd8 is strong in so many other subjects too. When it comes to her math she really struggles with knowing the facts on the fly. If I give her a few mintues she'll figure it out but I guess I'm more relaxed with her as I don't expect her to master the facts of math in her head EVER, because I'm almost 30 and still it takes me a few longer seconds than most to figure it out. Maybe she just isn't skilled in that area and in my opinion if she KNOWS how to find the answer, that's all that matters. In time she'll get quicker. Last year my dd didn't know 2+2 in 10 seconds (and my dd6 knew 2+2 almost immediately after she learned it), but this year she knows it nearly IMMEDIATELY. It's because we practice. And I don't "quiz" her in the manner most would think. I make it fun, sing and be silly about it. Same with multipication. She knows her multipaction facts much quicker than she first did her addition/subtraction facts. I think it's like warming up that skill.

 

Keep trucking and STICK to a program. Not staying consistant in a math program could be part of the problem. Once we stuck to our math program and just did some little reviews over dinner with our beans or with our ice cream scoops in bowls for the family...it got much better.

 

I hope things get easier for the both of you. I can only imagine it's as frustrating for her as it is you too. Just enjoy that she IS learning, because she CAN find the answer...whether it comes in 1:59 seconds, instead of 10 seconds.

 

 

But, I am afraid later on that if she hasn't mastered the basic facts it will only hurt her. When I ask her she gets a few wrong still and if she can't get them right on a first try that will snow ball into more confusion later on

[Mandy in TN]

Keep trucking and STICK to a program. Not staying consistant in a math program could be part of the problem. Once we stuck to our math program and just did some little reviews over dinner with our beans or with our ice cream scoops in bowls for the family...it got much better.

:iagree:Stick with a program. I vote for whatever program that you feel most comfortable teaching. Then, separate out the drill- doing it throughout the day- over ice cream isn't a bad idea.:)

Mandy

[Mynyel]

I use MUS and love it. My ds9 was struggling with borrowing. Just struggling. We watched the video twice then I did one whole lesson with him using the same technique that Mr. Demme used. He understood after that lesson. He is using the blocks still for his lessons but I don't have to stand there over him to help him/

[CarenM]

ok.

 

I know it won't be Math Mammoth so I will pick MUS most likely and stick with it. I have seen it used before.

 

Saxon just lost her. She needs to focus on one area at a time

[didadeewiththree]

Do you think a mastery approach would work better for her than an incremental approach? My daughter just turned 7 and is starting 2nd grade work, and is clearly more of a reader and writer than a mathmatician. I did Saxon for her older brother who is strong in math, but felt it wouldn't stick with her. I bounces around from one idea to the next and I didnt feel this would work for her. I really thought long and hard about math mammmoth, but after I went to a curriculum fair and got to look at a few programs, I went after Rod and Staff math. It also follows a mastery approach and really drills the facts. It isnt too busy with distracting colorful illustrasions, but is appealing and fun to do with some manipulatives. I added in math games from Rightstart math to make it even more fun, and we usually get math done within 30-40 minutes a lesson. Its also fairly inexpensive, only about $40 ish with all 5 workbooks and the two teacher's manuels, which I also recommend using. She finds it almost too easy here in the beginning, so I have her skip problems that she doesnt need extra practice on.

[Nikki -TX-]

... using games; homemade or use just the games from RightStart Math. They play and play until it sticks. (Go to the Dump - play matches that make 10; Corners - cool cards that match up to make 5/10/15)

 

Maybe more visuals will help? I highly recommend RS and their abacus - it trains them to see 5s and 10s without counting. Especially helpful is the "two fives strategy" (In this, using the abacus, you show say, 8 plus 6, you'd notice the 8 is "5 and 3" while the 6 is "5 and 1". Put the two fives together to make 10, the 3 and 1 make 4. 10 and 4 is 14.)

[CarenM]

I didn't think of Rod & Staff.

 

I will look into that. Thanks!

[abbeyej]

If I had it to start over with my dd, we would use RightStart. Absolutely, 100%.

 

I have one child who is a math whiz. :) Really. Teaching him was so easy and fun. He just *got* it. And I have one who really, really struggles with basic concepts. We're making progress now, but I wish that at 6 or 7, I had just gone whole hog for RightStart. At least for 1-2 years.

 

I would NOT recommend TT for a young child struggling with math. It will *not* help her develop her conceptual understand. (And I'm using it for extra practice for my own dd this year, but I would not, not, not use it for our main program.)

[CarenM]

If I had it to start over with my dd, we would use RightStart. Absolutely, 100%.

 

I have one child who is a math whiz. :) Really. Teaching him was so easy and fun. He just *got* it. And I have one who really, really struggles with basic concepts. We're making progress now, but I wish that at 6 or 7, I had just gone whole hog for RightStart. At least for 1-2 years.

 

I would NOT recommend TT for a young child struggling with math. It will *not* help her develop her conceptual understand. (And I'm using it for extra practice for my own dd this year, but I would not, not, not use it for our main program.)

 

 

My older one, a boy, has always done well with math and he is using TT. I can see how you're right there and that may not be the best option for her.

[Hedgehog]

Just adding my agreement to the "stick with one program" opinion. It really is better. Changing programs is so confusing. There are a load of threads with people's opinions of different programs - so lots of information right here, besides reviews elsewhere on the internet.

 

Also, I will say that my DD9, who is intuitively good at math but not so good on memorising anything, really benefitted from Saxon's steady progress and practice of the math facts; DD11, who is not math oriented at all, appreciates Saxon for its nibbled to death by ducks approach and since she has no problems memorising all sorts of random stuff, finds the fact sheets super easy.

[coralloyd]

I think MUS will be a great fit. I am horrid at math, but I want my dc to be much better and more confident than I am. As your dd moves into long addition, subtraction, and multiplication you will want her to know her facts. You don't want her sitting there forever! There is so much practice in MUS that she will get her facts.

Mr. Demme explains things so clearly. My dd9 asked me the other day if she will still being watching Mr. Demme in college. I told her no, and she was so disappointed:). Oh, something else that might help, If there are a few facts she is stuck on you can make them into pictures using lots of color and a story. I have had to do this with a few problems and it really helps those right brain thinkers.

[9763653]

Dyscalculia?

 

I have it. It would have been wonderful for my academic success if I had not been forced to try to grasp concepts my brain struggles with. If every math program seems a struggle, this is something you could look into.

[Aurelia]

We started using a math facts drill book, Two Plus Two is Not Five, while continuing with our regular curriculum. It has really helped Ariel's speed with math facts.

[Ellie]

I didn't think of Rod & Staff.

 

I will look into that. Thanks!

Exactly what I was going to recommend. :001_smile:

 

You can get free curriculum samples by calling the publisher at (606) 522-4348.

[veggiegal]

If she's understanding math concepts generally, and just not up to speed on her math facts, I'd drop worrying about them for a bit. Keep doing math lessons, play loads of games (that's where I feel I learned my math facts most effectively), enjoy some 'living math' readers together, and press on to other topics in math. My older son is very strong on math concepts, and less so on basic facts, and I found this approach worked well for him. Part of his problem was that he's a whole-to-parts learner, and drilling over and over again "what's 6+9? 7+8?" etc. was doing nothing but creating math anxiety and hatred of math in him. Pressing on to other topics (time, fractions, ratios, geometry, beginning algebra, multiplication, etc.) has helped him make connections and USE the basic addition facts, and he has improved. He took a standardized test in spring and while his "math concepts" score was still several years above his "math computation" score, both were above grade level.

 

Does your daughter do better when the question is a word problem? For years my son met "What's 2 + 5?" with "uh, uh, uh.....(anxiety rising)...7? Or is it 8?" but would respond to "If I had 2 toy dinosaurs and got 5 more at my birthday party, how many dinos do I now have?" with "Oh--7!" He also has far stronger estimation skills than computation: can your daughter see more easily that 6 + 9 must be close to 6 + 10, but a little less? Another thing that worked better for my son was doing math facts as part of a game (as I mentioned), or as part of solving a riddle. He also enjoys several iPad apps that have him doing tons of drill--painlessly!

 

As a former math tutor and teacher, I well know that not being solid on basic facts causes problems for kids later. But I also know that direct drill does not work for all kids, and math anxiety and "shutting down" can be a major source of problems too. And that some people--including famous scientists!--are never going to be as strong at basic facts as other parts of math. I have taught several kids who were put in the "slow group" in school because they couldn't blaze through their math facts quickly enough, yet were the among the strongest and most creative problem solvers in the class! These kids' basic math facts improved most when we did the exact opposite of the "hold them back" approach the school had been using: we gave them harder problems to solve, including some simple algebra in elementary school. Result? They enjoyed math again (most kids like a challenge) and because they were using the 4 operations more, and in unique ways, they improved on their basic math facts too.

 

Good luck.

[Heidi]

Simple basic addition/ subtraction. I juswt don't feel she has mastered . I will ask her what 15 minus 6 is and it takes her forever

 

 

There's no way my dd7 could do that problem without taking forever. I don't think that is a big deal. She's 7.

 

We're working on math facts and will always work on math facts, but we're going to keep on moving in her math because she is ready for other concepts.

 

The facts will come. She uses flashmaster to drill facts and we're just going really slowly there. It doesn't come easy for her.

 

I like MM because it teaches the WHY. I've also used R&S and I like that too. It drills the facts and is part of the daily work. It just didn't teach the WHY behind some concepts, which is why I switched. It's a great math program though.

 

Good luck!

[CarenM]

There's no way my dd7 could do that problem without taking forever. I don't think that is a big deal. She's 7.

 

We're working on math facts and will always work on math facts, but we're going to keep on moving in her math because she is ready for other concepts.

 

The facts will come. She uses flashmaster to drill facts and we're just going really slowly there. It doesn't come easy for her.

 

I like MM because it teaches the WHY. I've also used R&S and I like that too. It drills the facts and is part of the daily work. It just didn't teach the WHY behind some concepts, which is why I switched. It's a great math program though.

 

Good luck!

 

With MM she isnt doing well with the pictures,,,,,they are just throwing her off like for tens how they use the box with a T in it then the little dots next to it for the ones. Does that make sense?

[Heidi]

With MM she isnt doing well with the pictures,,,,,they are just throwing her off like for tens how they use the box with a T in it then the little dots next to it for the ones. Does that make sense?

 

Yep, we've done those. Definitely try R&S. You might like that better. It's more straight forward.

[CarenM]

Thank you everyone!

 

I love Right Start but just can not pay that much. Wish I could

 

I think we are going to use MUS or R & S ....we will decide after my husband gets home tonight

[daybreaking]

Another strong recommendation for R&S. From your description, I think it would perfectly meet your needs. Like you, we did Saxon 1 & 2 and I just wasn't satisfied with my ds's mastery of the facts. At first I dropped Saxon's fact sheets and just used R&S's worksheets along with Saxon's, starting at the beginning of R&S 1. Eventually I switched over completely. We've now done R&S 1, 2 & 3 and will be starting R&S 4 this month. I've been thrilled with my ds's mastery of the basic facts, as well as his upper level conceptual thinking. Once you find a good fit, as others have said, I would recommend sticking with a program for the long haul to avoid gaps.

[parias1126]

My DD is almost 9 and struggles. She always has. The only math program that works for her is Math U See. Anything else is tears, tears, and more tears. If you haven't tried it, I would give it a go.

[Nikki -TX-]

I love Right Start but just can not pay that much. Wish I could

 

 

Just wanted to mention - I agree RS is expensive. The only new items I've bought for have been the student level workbooks, which are under $20. Everything else has been used - from the For Sale board (here on WTM), through the RightStart Yahoo group (which is sooo helpful), and ebay. :)

[Guest]

Exactly what I was going to recommend. :001_smile:

 

You can get free curriculum samples by calling the publisher at (606) 522-4348.

 

Same here. :)

[CarenM]

Thanks for all the info. I am going to pray over it and make a decision in the morning.

[cloversandlions]

If she's understanding math concepts generally, and just not up to speed on her math facts, I'd drop worrying about them for a bit. Keep doing math lessons, play loads of games (that's where I feel I learned my math facts most effectively), enjoy some 'living math' readers together, and press on to other topics in math. My older son is very strong on math concepts, and less so on basic facts, and I found this approach worked well for him. Part of his problem was that he's a whole-to-parts learner, and drilling over and over again "what's 6+9? 7+8?" etc. was doing nothing but creating math anxiety and hatred of math in him. Pressing on to other topics (time, fractions, ratios, geometry, beginning algebra, multiplication, etc.) has helped him make connections and USE the basic addition facts, and he has improved. He took a standardized test in spring and while his "math concepts" score was still several years above his "math computation" score, both were above grade level.

 

Does your daughter do better when the question is a word problem? For years my son met "What's 2 + 5?" with "uh, uh, uh.....(anxiety rising)...7? Or is it 8?" but would respond to "If I had 2 toy dinosaurs and got 5 more at my birthday party, how many dinos do I now have?" with "Oh--7!" He also has far stronger estimation skills than computation: can your daughter see more easily that 6 + 9 must be close to 6 + 10, but a little less? Another thing that worked better for my son was doing math facts as part of a game (as I mentioned), or as part of solving a riddle. He also enjoys several iPad apps that have him doing tons of drill--painlessly!

 

As a former math tutor and teacher, I well know that not being solid on basic facts causes problems for kids later. But I also know that direct drill does not work for all kids, and math anxiety and "shutting down" can be a major source of problems too. And that some people--including famous scientists!--are never going to be as strong at basic facts as other parts of math. I have taught several kids who were put in the "slow group" in school because they couldn't blaze through their math facts quickly enough, yet were the among the strongest and most creative problem solvers in the class! These kids' basic math facts improved most when we did the exact opposite of the "hold them back" approach the school had been using: we gave them harder problems to solve, including some simple algebra in elementary school. Result? They enjoyed math again (most kids like a challenge) and because they were using the 4 operations more, and in unique ways, they improved on their basic math facts too.

 

Good luck.

 

Nearly three years ago, my then-dd7 loved "simple algebra" (eg., if x=7, what is 2x+9; or, for the following: 5n+2y, solve when n & y = 2,3 , 4,2 , 3,6 ; etc.) but she still cannot do a vertical subtraction problem, especially if it involves borrowing. When she was 3 and 4, she understood "groups" (multiplication). She has dyslexia, and probably dyscalculia. I've read so often to accelerate them instead of holding them back, but my question is...how? When taking the grade 3 MM end-of-year test last week, she struggled with most everything on the test.

 

Does anyone have advice on how to accelerate a very bright kid with dyslexia/dysgraphia challenges? Are there certain curricula which are better for this than others? If it's "babyish", she won't go for it at all, so I fear that things like MUS and RS, with their brightly-colored manipulatives, won't work because it will be obvious that she's working at a younger level than she "should" be. Also, dd7 (mentally doing division and fractions, although she's not aware of it) will probably surpass dd10 at the current rate, so it might be best if their respective curricula are not the same.

 

Currently, I have MM, and Math on the Level, and Life of Fred. I loved MEP, but I'm not sure I can commit to the time it takes to do that every day. Maybe I should reconsider? Money is an consideration, but it's not an *absolute* deal-breaker.

[Joyfullyblessed]

Hello,

 

I know you have made your decision by now, but I wanted to just say that for my 7 year old, we use R&S math, but we also have a really cute little math game called Sum Swamp. My son who doesn't love math LOVES this game and ask to play it. It teaches addition/subtraction/greater than/less than and odd/even.

 

Anyway, wanted to throw that idea out there too. Good luck in whatever you chose! :)

[frankcassiesmom]

This is why we use MUS for 1-4th grade. They then have mastered all their addition, subtraction, multiplication and division facts. Then we move to a different program that suits them (one went to Saxon, another is going to TT). And I supplement with LOF :)

[mschickie]

We used Horizons for grades 1-3. Horizons really helped dd learn the basic facts. I know R&S is supposed to be similar. I would also suggest getting the game snap it up. We played that with dd all the time to help reinforce her basic arithmetic facts.

[Little Blue House]

I havent read all the posts and someone may have mentioned this already...what about taking a break from the main math curr (whatever you choose to use from this point forward) and take some time to solidify the math facts. We are doing this right now with my oldest. Math was becoming a frustrating experience b/c the difficulty was increasing yet his inability to make computations in his head (math facts) with a multi-step problem caused math to take forever. Hopefully some time spent working on facts this summer will help us get through MM 3 this year with a few less tears :001_smile:

[HollyBee]

It sounds to me like you have two issues here:

 

1) She doesn't know her addition and subtraction facts.

 

2) She's struggling with the concepts presented in the pictures in MM.

 

For 1), I agree with those who said to drill those separately from the math lessons. Make it fun, play games, maybe get some of those addition/subtraction songs where you sing the facts. Keep trucking on this, and don't worry--she's 7. She'll get them memorized; some kids just take longer to get them etched in their little brains.

 

For 2), I have a question: Are you using hands-on manipulatives while going through those lessons with pictures? She's still at the age where she probably needs something concrete in her hands before she can visualize what the pictures represent. I think this is a good part of what folks like about Right Start Math. Get some inexpensive manipulatives (you can buy them, or make them--popsicle sticks bound together for tens, etc.) and show her the concepts with the manipulatives before expecting her to understand the pictures.

 

I personally think MM is a fabulous program, and it is mastery. Since you already have MM, why not try this before forking out the money for a whole new program? Of course, you can add manipulatives to any math program.

 

If you're already doing this, then disregard! :tongue_smilie: Good luck--I have an almost 13yo who struggles with math, so I feel your pain!