Would this be way too much

[jamajo]

to try and have a daycare with 1-2 kids maybe before/after care too and

1 under 5y foster child?

and homeschool a 9th grader, 7th grader, 5th grader?

 

My schedule includes:

Monday coop 12-2 pm (daycare and foster child must go and be occupied by me)

Tuesday piano 10:45 - 11:15 am (2 homeschooler's stay home, everyone else goes)

Wednesday Art 12-2 pm (travel just to drop off)

 

I'm I crazy or can I manage this? Oldest daughter can help with meals and care of the children for a little during each day.

[mafi39]

I'm thinking this would be way too much for me, but everyone is wired differently. I'll be interested to see if anyone has any experience with a similar situation.

[jibaker103]

to try and have a daycare with 1-2 kids maybe before/after care too and

1 under 5y foster child?

and homeschool a 9th grader, 7th grader, 5th grader?

 

My schedule includes:

Monday coop 12-2 pm (daycare and foster child must go and be occupied by me)

Tuesday piano 10:45 - 11:15 am (2 homeschooler's stay home, everyone else goes)

Wednesday Art 12-2 pm (travel just to drop off)

 

I'm I crazy or can I manage this? Oldest daughter can help with meals and care of the children for a little during each day.

I ran a full-time in-home daycare serving 10 children 6 months thru 3 years with 1 full-time and 1 part-time employees while homeschooling my ds during 7th and 8th grade.

 

Ds had to be independent for the most part and we both had to learn how to make use of and be efficient during naptimes and outside times. Sometimes we would have to work in the evenings after the daycare closed at 6 pm.

 

I did not get to everything I wanted to complete during that time period but we did have a lot of fun and learned how to work together as a team to pull off what we did do! However, most days by the time dinner was over I was nearly brain dead and never made it through a full length movie without falling asleep!!!

[Running the race]

I couldn't do it, but one of the moms in my school group ran a day-care in her home for years. She also had five of her own children to homeschool.

[Ester Maria]

It sounds like a total overkill to me, sorry.

 

I also have problems with your nonchalant constatation that your eldest can help with children which you took upon yourself as your responsibility - I could not put my children into such a situation, if you cannot do yourself additional duties you take upon yourself, I would rather not take them at all than involve my other children. I would also not be willing to compromise the academic quality, even if you have older children who can be mostly independent, if you do / discuss things with them, by caring full-time for other children.

 

Basically, I would not do it. I would have major issues taking obligations like this which might interfere with my children's lives, and major issues letting the academic quality go down because of those other obligations.

[regentrude]

My personal opinion: I would not do it.

It sounds as if both the daycare kids and your own will get short changed.

As a mom who used daycare, I would not want my kids shlepped around to the daycare provider's kids' activities and occupied somehow (especially not during a noon to 2pm time slot during which many little kids might want to nap.)

For your own kids, I think that the quality of a high schooler's academic education would suffer if she was made responsible for child care - that is simply not how I see the responsibilities of a 14 y/o.

 

Btw, I do work a job outside the home, and my kids have to spend part of the day working independently - but they are not held responsible for MY work, nor does my work's quality suffer from me homeschooling.

[jamajo]

It sounds like a total overkill to me, sorry.

 

I also have problems with your nonchalant constatation that your eldest can help with children which you took upon yourself as your responsibility -

 

I appreciate everyone's honest opinions. I also appreciate non judgmental comments. I've read a lot of "conversations" about various topics on this board where there have been harsh overtones. Now I know what it feels like. :chillpill: I think I'd rather not comment directly. What point would that be anyway? I'm sure I'm not sensitive but jeesh....

 

I'm glad this wasn't said to me in person...b/c I am rather confrontational. Now that I've picked my heart up off of the floor I'll move on.

[Ester Maria]

I need not chill, Jamajo - I am perfectly calm while writing. :) You asked a question, which is an invitation to get various opinions, and that includes a risk of also hearing opinions which happen not to coincide with yours, or which happen to stem from premises which do not coincide with yours.

 

One of my premises is that I do not find it fair towards a child to engage them in your work, in something you took upon yourself as an additional duty (especially if we are talking about a "real", for-pay job), and pass some of your obligations onto them or have their schooling suffer in some way because you are "multitasking" while you school them and possibly cannot provide them with enough time, discussion time and attention.

 

You may or may not think that these things are important - all the standard disclaimers apply. If you do not have a problem having your children do some of your additional work and if you think they will get a fabulous education no matter what because they are very independent and driven, I do not see what is the problem. It may still conflict with my perosnal values as to what should and what should not be within the realm of responsibilities of a ninth grader, whether children in daycare should or should not be shlepped around, or whether one should attempt in the first place to "mutitask" one's days in this fashion (I personally believe that *I* could do not do it, as I would end up doing two things poorly and neither properly - but that is me, not you) - but whatever floats your boat. If you do not have a problem with it, if you think you can physically manage it, if you do not have a "moral" problem asking your eldest to help you with something you took upon yourself as your additional work, and if you do not think their education will suffer from the chaos with the littles and lack of attention... then what is the problem?

 

I am sorry if I come across as harsh - it is not my intention to be so, but only to be direct. Your post did rub me the wrong way, though, because I feel very strongly about some of these things - but we may differ there and you may not consider it such a big deal to "employ" your eldest to help you with your work as I would consider it.

I obsess "fairness", I do not even ask from my children help with the baby as my reasoning is that that is *my* child and *my* duty and they are there as sisters to enjoy the baby and connect with her as sisters, or maybe help "symbolically" now and then (you know, to hold a baby for a minute for me or tie her shoes now and then when in hurry), but not to actually care (in terms of bottles, diapers, babysitting, etc.) for a responsibilty that is *I* took upon *myself*. I have a fairly "extreme" view of these things, so that is what the clash may be based on - simply a different parenting philosophy. :) So, if I do not even ask them to help with a fully-fledged family member, even more so I would be opposed to have them care for or babysit other children that I took as my responsibility, especially if as a payed job. You may simply reason differently and not consider it such a big deal to have your eldest help you even with your work with children that are not yours. Mind you, it is not that I consider it abusive or anything, but it does cross some of my personal lines, which is why I wanted to say why I would not willingly put myself in such a position.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Ester Maria

[Teachin'Mine]

A couple of generations ago this is how families lived. There was little separation of a family business from family life. The families worked hard together to make their business a success or at least to be able to survive. IMO the children learned good work ethics and, as long as they were still able to attend school or have time for their studies, they didn't suffer. So, I see nothing wrong with asking a teen to help out with watching the children. These are tough financial times, and we all do what we have to do. For those who don't have to, they should be grateful.

 

I can understand wanting to do what you're thinking of doing. I think a lot depends on the ages and behavior of the children you're caring for. Some might make it near impossible, while with others it might work to keep your youngest involved with other children. I think the only way you'll know whether it's workable or not is to give it a go. You can always take on the day care with the stipulation that you're giving it a trial go for a couple or few months, so then if you have to ask them to find other arrangements, it will have already been a possibility.

 

:grouphug:

[SonshineLearner]

I think it depends on "why" you're needing to pick up more children and how your oldest feels about it. Making some Mac-n-Cheese for lunch might work out fine for teens. I mean, in HS they do courses where they learn how to cook, and much of it is simple. I am gathering you don't mean actually "care" for the children, like babysit, but rather pitch in to help a bit. I would do strictly daycare, versus foster and daycare, if it were me. I would also rather have babies that could "grow up" with us, or say... 3 or 4 year olds... but not a mix. My friend who did daycare forever said the 5's get the kindergarten attitude as soon as they set foot in a classroom. Hope you find a situation that works for your family! ;)

[Guest]

A couple of generations ago this is how families lived. There was little separation of a family business from family life. The families worked hard together to make their business a success or at least to be able to survive. IMO the children learned good work ethics and' date=' as long as they were still able to attend school or have time for their studies, they didn't suffer. So, I see nothing wrong with asking a teen to help out with watching the children. These are tough financial times, and we all do what we have to do. For those who don't have to, they should be grateful.

[/quote']

 

:iagree: This is exactly what I was thinking as I read through this thread. There are a number of educational thinkers who believe we do all children, but particularly older kids, a disservice when the schooling is so cut off from family and/or adult work of all kinds. Lots of people today have jobs that do not lend themselves to integration with family life; but some can still do this, at least some of the time, and offer their kids a chance to do work that contributes to family financial survival.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Guest

[Amy in TX]

I think it depends on "why" you're needing to pick up more children and how your oldest feels about it. Making some Mac-n-Cheese for lunch might work out fine for teens.

 

:iagree:

 

If this is an economic necessity for your family, then there is no choice and everyone needs to pitch in and help. And I would ask as little as possible of your other dc, so as not to interfere with their education any more than necessary.

 

But if it's not an economic necessity, I wouldn't do it. As other posters have said, probably both your own dc and the daycare kids would be shortchanged.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I've never utilized daycare, but if I did I would want my child's care provider to be able to focus on him and not be split between his care and homeschooling tweens and teens. I also wouldn't want him tagging along to wait at co-ops, etc. especially during his sleepy time after lunch. I wouldn't want him to spend so much time in the car every day.

 

Before and after-school care might be more feasible, if you live near a school. It sounds like your family is home during those times, and wouldn't necessarily be focused on homeschooling during those hours. Overnight care is another possibility, if you live near a hospital or nursing home, anywhere that single moms might work second-shift and need a childcare provider overnight.

[jamajo]

A couple of generations ago this is how families lived. There was little separation of a family business from family life. The families worked hard together to make their business a success or at least to be able to survive. IMO the children learned good work ethics and' date=' as long as they were still able to attend school or have time for their studies, they didn't suffer. So, I see nothing wrong with asking a teen to help out with watching the children. These are tough financial times, and we all do what we have to do. For those who don't have to, they should be grateful.

 

:grouphug:[/quote'] -

 

Thanks for this point of view.

I think it depends on "why" you're needing to pick up more children and how your oldest feels about it. Making some Mac-n-Cheese for lunch might work out fine for teens. I mean, in HS they do courses where they learn how to cook, and much of it is simple. I am gathering you don't mean actually "care" for the children, like babysit, but rather pitch in to help a bit. I would do strictly daycare, versus foster and daycare, if it were me.

 

 

-sorry I don't know how to do multiple quotes within my reply, sorry.

 

Yes, this is what I was thinking. She volunteers with the church's nursery and enjoys children.

 

As a family, we are looking to adopt through foster care so that is the plan regardless of what I do in times of daycare.

 

 

To be honest I am leaning toward not doing it. The purpose is to assist with our family's finances to meet some of our financial goals. But there are other ways we are brainstorming.

 

Thanks for your constructive thoughts and opinions.

[Rhonda in TX]

I couldn't do it. The idea of it stresses me out, but I know my own limitations. I also know my children's schooling would suffer, and I'm not willing for that to happen.

 

If I really needed the money, I would consider before/after school care only. That would have the least impact on our lives and homeschooling time.

 

You may be able to handle it (I know some people who could) and your kids may do fine with the interruptions little kids will add. Only you know that.

[jamajo]

I think it depends on "why" you're needing to pick up more children and how your oldest feels about it. Making some Mac-n-Cheese for lunch might work out fine for teens. I mean, in HS they do courses where they learn how to cook, and much of it is simple. I am gathering you don't mean actually "care" for the children, like babysit, but rather pitch in to help a bit. I would do strictly daycare, versus foster and daycare, if it were me. I would also rather have babies that could "grow up" with us, or say... 3 or 4 year olds... but not a mix. My friend who did daycare forever said the 5's get the kindergarten attitude as soon as they set foot in a classroom. Hope you find a situation that works for your family! ;)

 

 

I was trying to quote you in my last post but couldn't figure out how to quote more than one person in my reply.

 

I think I answered this point.

Thanks!

[Ester Maria]

A couple of generations ago this is how families lived. There was little separation of a family business from family life. The families worked hard together to make their business a success or at least to be able to survive. IMO the children learned good work ethics and' date=' as long as they were still able to attend school or have time for their studies, they didn't suffer.[/quote']

True, but a couple of generations ago *life* was different... in very crucial ways. I can fully understand that my great-grandparents, or maybe even the generation of my grandparents, had such a lifestyle, where a family trade was a part of everyday life and children had to pitch in, however, we are also talking about the times where free time was a luxury quite unheard of, schooling has traditionally been such a priority that it was happening everywhere and anytime when it could be squeezed in, so pretty much a whole day was busy, consisting of work and housework mixed with studying, from early mornings to late in the evenings.

 

Technically, if OP were to lead such a lifestyle, this is a no-brainer: children can get something done during the day and read, help when needed and take turns in that, and the discussion part / teacher intensive part and some general making up for things can happen in the evenings. But seriously, nowadays, I doubt that many people are going to have physical strength, motivation or mental discipline to pretty much start their concentrated academics / discussion part with children at five or six in the evenings, after a full day of work dedicated to daycare children, during which their own children either helped or tried to squeeze in some general preparatory work for the evenings. And then there are weekends, of course, a time to make up for what one has missed in the evenings. No problem at all, if you are willing to commit yourself to such a structure of your life. I do not see myself willing to commit to it, but if for whatever reasons I had to - and life happens, there are such situations - I would simply have to live practically without any free time for that year or those years to get everything done. Yes, people have been doing exactly that for generations - hitting the books after the day of hard work, learning with their children in the evenings, etc. - but as they say, there are good and bad sides to everything... and for our time and place, I think the bad sides of such a family dynamic seriously outweight the potential benefits. I would much rather have some free time, family time, etc., than have to do school in the evenings or Saturdays.

 

The alternative would be to put the school on the back burner and/or do it more superficially, flying through things without much concentration - not an alternative I personally could accept, it would not fit our family culture. So because of that, it would be a complete overkill for us because school would have to happen and it would not be sacrificed, but I would also have to attend to additional duties. Yes, previous generations lived through that overkill and manage to survive through it, but I think a modern lifestyle does not fit it very well. Like it or not, we *are* spoiled by this whole notion of genuinely free time, then screen time, prolonged family time, etc.

 

I get your point, TM, but I think that the lifestyle of previous generations (I talked about it extensively with my own family too) was on the whole so different, for the good and for the bad, that one just cannot reasonably compare it with our own. It was not just that an element A or an element B of life was different - the whole context was different, and life was much slower and in many ways less complex. I think going back to such an extreme might work as a short-term measure, but if taken as a long term committment, if the situation is not the one of an exceptional necessity, I would just not be inclined to do it so I would keep schooling the priority.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Ester Maria

[Teachin'Mine]

In our family it goes back to my parents generation. Most graduated from college. In some farming families and others, it's part of life today.

 

The OP was/is considering having 1 or 2 little ones to care for during the day. There are many families homeschooling with more children than that. Obviously there are differences and this would be more time consuming and have different needs, but it isn't outside the realm of possible. She mentioned that her 9th grader could help prepare some meals and watch the children a bit during the day. My dd helps with meals and in other ways during her school days.

 

Ugh. I had so many other thoughts, but have to go for now. To be continued. :)

 

Back just to add that it doesn't sound like the majority of school would need to be done in the evening or weekends. I know that many here are very hands on in their teaching with their children, but some students learn mostly independently. One who is able to learn this way, has curricula geared towards this, and had a quiet area to do their work during the day, could do just fine. Each homeschooling family is so different.

 

I do think it would be very challenging to do all of it well, and I would probably find it overwhelming. But that may not be the case for her.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[regentrude]

The OP was/is considering having 1 or 2 little ones to care for during the day. There are many families homeschooling with more children than that. Obviously there are differences and this would be more time consuming and have different needs' date=' but it isn't outside the realm of possible. [/quote']

 

I think there is a fundamental difference between families of many children and a professional daycare. I have no trouble imagining how a mother of many can successfully parent and homeschool and structure her family' day with all obligations, and how siblings learn to cooperate an work together as a family.

I see it as very different if another mother pays to have her child taken care of - she is entitled to have her expectations for quality child care met. Those will conflict with the provider's homeschool duties, especially when outside activities are concerned.

If the daycare provider drives my kid around town so that HER kids can attend activities, that is not quality daycare for my kid, and as a paying customer I would object - and not use this provider at all.

[jibaker103]

I think there is a fundamental difference between families of many children and a professional daycare. I have no trouble imagining how a mother of many can successfully parent and homeschool and structure her family' day with all obligations, and how siblings learn to cooperate an work together as a family.

I see it as very different if another mother pays to have her child taken care of - she is entitled to have her expectations for quality child care met. Those will conflict with the provider's homeschool duties, especially when outside activities are concerned.

If the daycare provider drives my kid around town so that HER kids can attend activities, that is not quality daycare for my kid, and as a paying customer I would object - and not use this provider at all.

 

Having run my on professional in-home daycare for three years, I wholeheartedly agree with you on the paying parents expectations of quality childcare not to mention state regulations on transporting other people's children. The state of TX made it so difficult as well as the liability involved I never wanted to bother with it! There are a lot of hoops involved in running a daycare. In no way is it like being a babysitter!

[Teachin'Mine]

I think there is a fundamental difference between families of many children and a professional daycare. I have no trouble imagining how a mother of many can successfully parent and homeschool and structure her family' day with all obligations, and how siblings learn to cooperate an work together as a family.

I see it as very different if another mother pays to have her child taken care of - she is entitled to have her expectations for quality child care met. Those will conflict with the provider's homeschool duties, especially when outside activities are concerned.

If the daycare provider drives my kid around town so that HER kids can attend activities, that is not quality daycare for my kid, and as a paying customer I would object - and not use this provider at all.

 

I agree. But the question wasn't whether we would want out children in a daycare situation like that, it was whether it was too much for a homeschooling mom to handle.

[regentrude]

But the question wasn't whether we would want out children in a daycare situation like that' date=' it was whether it was too much for a homeschooling mom to handle.[/quote']

 

OK, but what I wrote does have a bearing on the "too much to handle" question because in order to satisfy her paying customers, she could NOT simply drag along the daycare kids to her kids' appointments as proposed. She would have to find different arrangements or forgo these activities, which would complicate matters for the OP and make the daycare operation harder to handle.

 

As an aside: in our state, our daycare provider was required to get a chauffeur's license in order to be allowed to transport clients' children. Which is another thing the OP needs to consider.

[8filltheheart]

to try and have a daycare with 1-2 kids maybe before/after care too and

1 under 5y foster child?

and homeschool a 9th grader, 7th grader, 5th grader?

 

My schedule includes:

Monday coop 12-2 pm (daycare and foster child must go and be occupied by me)

Tuesday piano 10:45 - 11:15 am (2 homeschooler's stay home, everyone else goes)

Wednesday Art 12-2 pm (travel just to drop off)

 

I'm I crazy or can I manage this? Oldest daughter can help with meals and care of the children for a little during each day.

 

I think this is a lose/lose situation. I'm not sure that it is fair to non-familial children to be hauled around to older children's activities. I feel guilty about my own little ones being car babies or having to hang out waiting for the older ones to be done.

 

I have no problem with my kids being responsible for the functioning of our household. At this pt in my life, I couldn't do it w/o them. I used to be able to do everything myself, but I can't anymore. BUT......they never do anything for me during school hrs or until their school work is done. It is their #1 priority.

 

I might send my dd to the grocery store in the evening or ask them to fold laundry while they watch tv. But I would not ask them to take care of one of their younger siblings unless it was an emergency like taking someone else to the dr, etc. The division of responsibilities falls where individual priorities exist.

 

If it came down to it for me, I would eliminate art and music to cut expenses before I disrupted our daily routine via day care.

 

I think foster care is different b/c the kids are supposed to function as part of the family, especially if you hope to adopt. My answer would still be mostly the same in regards to my older kids and school, but the foster kids going to my older kids' activities would be acceptable.

Edited July 28, 2011 by 8FillTheHeart

[laughing lioness]

I think it's too much. High school is demanding. Other people's kids are demanding. Outside activities are demanding. Foster care is demanding. You have listed a LOT of demands.

Yes, you could probably do it, but at what cost. What would suffer, who would lose out?

[Teachin'Mine]

OK, but what I wrote does have a bearing on the "too much to handle" question because in order to satisfy her paying customers, she could NOT simply drag along the daycare kids to her kids' appointments as proposed. She would have to find different arrangements or forgo these activities, which would complicate matters for the OP and make the daycare operation harder to handle.

 

As an aside: in our state, our daycare provider was required to get a chauffeur's license in order to be allowed to transport clients' children. Which is another thing the OP needs to consider.

 

Obviously she would need to be upfront with any potential daycare parents about what the schedule for outside activities would be like. Many parents wouldn't want that for their children but others wouldn't mind. OP would of course need to satisfy any state requirements regarding child care and chauffeuring, if any.

 

Yes, there would be a lot to consider, which is why I'm guessing the OP posted - to get some feedback on the feasibility. :)

 

ETA: This needed some smilies! In re-reading, the tone sounds so harsh, and that's not at all how it was intended. :tongue_smilie:

Edited July 28, 2011 by Teachin'Mine
To add some smilies!

[Ester Maria]

The OP was/is considering having 1 or 2 little ones to care for during the day. There are many families homeschooling with more children than that. Obviously there are differences and this would be more time consuming and have different needs' date=' but it isn't outside the realm of possible. She mentioned that her 9th grader could help prepare some meals and watch the children a bit during the day. My dd helps with meals and in other ways during her school days. [/quote']

I think all of our children help with household duties because that is a normal part of growing up in a family, but I think it is a fundamentally different situation to help with your parents' work - that is the part which rubbed me the wrong way. It would be equivalent to me nonchallantly stating that my eldest DD can help with some of my translations, pitch in a bit for my research or co-tutor some of my students with me or for me when I attend to other children. Even if technically she could do these things, I would find it just wrong to actually ask that of her, put her in that situation - and even if she were to volunteer, I would think really well before allowing her and think really well where do I draw the line. (It is in the nature of my work, however, that she cannot do any of my work, or we fall into the trap of intellectual dishonesty: I cannot sign a translation which was not done by me, I cannot offer private tutoring which is half handled by my unqualified daughter, etc.)

 

If her DD prepares a meal now and then as a part of family duty, for other family members, no problem. If she prepares that meal for her family members and her mother's "clients" on a somewhat regular basis, I think the line has been crossed here. Attending to her mother's "clients" - same thing, it is just different than babysitting your own sibling who is a fully-fledged family member (mind you, I still think that many people cross the line as to how much their children "raise" their other children, but that is my personal pet peeve as I feel very strongly that my choices and my children are my obligation, except for emergencies). This is why this whole situation seems so "unnatural" to me - we are not talking about duties which are a regular part of family dynamic, but duties which happen in the first place because the mother took upon herself some additional obligations, which she is then not able to attend to fully herself, and which would otherwise not happen. It seems unfair to me both to her children and to her "clients".

 

If she were capable of separating the two - her work from her family - in a fully professional fashion (i.e. without having it interfere with her children's lives and day dynamic), and still attend to her children's schoolwork to the extent she normally does after her work (in terms of discussions, checking their work, etc. - having each child get what they would normally get), no problem, as that situation is essentially not different from that of working mothers who homeschool. Because of that I brought up evenings, as that would be the time when one can fully attend to one's children's educations in most cases, if the kids have prepared the work in advance, so they can go over it / discuss without work interruptions / etc.

 

I do not think it is outside of the realm of the physically possible, but at what cost? What physical / mental / emotional / interrupted family dynamic / possibly unprofessional work / possibly lower educational quality cost? If it is a necessity, then by all means, do what you have to do, no discussion about that - a necessity is a necessity and priorities need to shift. Life happens, people adapt and go on.

But if it is not, or if life can be arranged differently, I am not sure many people who handle this very well. Maybe she can, I am not ruling out that option and there I agree with you :), but I am concerned about giving some of her work to her daughter, possibly not having enough time and mental energy to attend to her kids' schooling or on the other hand not attending to her clients as much as she should because she is trying to "mutitask".

 

 

(Interesting that you should bring up farms, though, you gave me some food for thought. :tongue_smilie: Admittedly it never really "clicked" with me that we are essentially even in that case talking about parents' job handed onto kids, I always viewed it more as life circumstances than parents' job, but now that you mention it, it would be interesting to think about that one and about where would be a reasonable line of children involvement in such a case, whether it is possible and to what extent to separate work duties from regular family duties. Hm.)

Edited July 28, 2011 by Ester Maria

[Amy in TX]

A couple of generations ago this is how families lived. There was little separation of a family business from family life. The families worked hard together to make their business a success or at least to be able to survive. IMO the children learned good work ethics and' date=' as long as they were still able to attend school or have time for their studies, they didn't suffer. [/quote']

 

But I think a typical education a couple of generations ago wasn't the same as a typical education today. College is the new high school; today a college-prep course of study, with three lab sciences and two years of foreign language and three years of higher math etc., etc., is the minimum expected of every child.

 

A couple of generations ago, college was pretty much for the wealthy only, and even high school wasn't always finished. (Or even started--my own grandfather left school after 8th grade to work on his family's farm in Pennsylvania.)

 

I don't undervalue the importance of kids doing work that contributes to the family's well-being, but we shouldn't romanticize the tradeoffs involved.

[Teachin'Mine]

But I think a typical education a couple of generations ago wasn't the same as a typical education today. College is the new high school; today a college-prep course of study, with three lab sciences and two years of foreign language and three years of higher math etc., etc., is the minimum expected of every child.

 

A couple of generations ago, college was pretty much for the wealthy only, and even high school wasn't always finished. (Or even started--my own grandfather left school after 8th grade to work on his family's farm in Pennsylvania.)

 

I don't undervalue the importance of kids doing work that contributes to the family's well-being, but we shouldn't romanticize the tradeoffs involved.

 

Yes, educational goals were very different then. But if I use the example of my father's family, his family owned retail businesses. The children all attended school, private until the Depression hit, and most went onto college and graduated, some with more advanced degrees. Education was highly valued, but so was work both in the shops and at home. Admittedly there were fewer hours of free time especially during the high school years, but their education didn't suffer.

 

Regarding the quality of their education, it far exceeded what is the norm today. I would venture to say that they completed what's typical today by 9th or 10th grade. Their studies were rigorous. Their vocabularies phenomenal. They can quote Shakespeare and others and their knowledge of history included so much more than the typical now. Latin was studied by all, even in the public schools. For the sciences, their lab equipment was probably not up to today's standards and of course there was no computer technology, but math was probably on par - although I don't know if calculus was offered in high school or not.

 

My grandmother had no formal education beyond 2nd grade. Her teacher became ill, and that was the end of school. She would have loved more education, but that wasn't an option. She learned English as her second language here - both reading and writing fluently. She ran the business end of the business which involved four shops at one time, so her math, bookkeeping skills, and business acumen were good as well.

 

I think that they'd all tell you that there was nothing romantic about working hard both at school, at home and on the job, but it's what was. And with the economy today, I think this will become more the norm, rather than the exception, with more and more families - homeschoolers included.

[Teachin'Mine]

I think all of our children help with household duties because that is a normal part of growing up in a family, but I think it is a fundamentally different situation to help with your parents' work - that is the part which rubbed me the wrong way. It would be equivalent to me nonchallantly stating that my eldest DD can help with some of my translations, pitch in a bit for my research or co-tutor some of my students with me or for me when I attend to other children. Even if technically she could do these things, I would find it just wrong to actually ask that of her, put her in that situation - and even if she were to volunteer, I would think really well before allowing her and think really well where do I draw the line. (It is in the nature of my work, however, that she cannot do any of my work, or we fall into the trap of intellectual dishonesty: I cannot sign a translation which was not done by me, I cannot offer private tutoring which is half handled by my unqualified daughter, etc.)

 

If her DD prepares a meal now and then as a part of family duty, for other family members, no problem. If she prepares that meal for her family members and her mother's "clients" on a somewhat regular basis, I think the line has been crossed here. Attending to her mother's "clients" - same thing, it is just different than babysitting your own sibling who is a fully-fledged family member (mind you, I still think that many people cross the line as to how much their children "raise" their other children, but that is my personal pet peeve as I feel very strongly that my choices and my children are my obligation, except for emergencies). This is why this whole situation seems so "unnatural" to me - we are not talking about duties which are a regular part of family dynamic, but duties which happen in the first place because the mother took upon herself some additional obligations, which she is then not able to attend to fully herself, and which would otherwise not happen. It seems unfair to me both to her children and to her "clients".

 

If she were capable of separating the two - her work from her family - in a fully professional fashion (i.e. without having it interfere with her children's lives and day dynamic), and still attend to her children's schoolwork to the extent she normally does after her work (in terms of discussions, checking their work, etc. - having each child get what they would normally get), no problem, as that situation is essentially not different from that of working mothers who homeschool. Because of that I brought up evenings, as that would be the time when one can fully attend to one's children's educations in most cases, if the kids have prepared the work in advance, so they can go over it / discuss without work interruptions / etc.

 

I do not think it is outside of the realm of the physically possible, but at what cost? What physical / mental / emotional / interrupted family dynamic / possibly unprofessional work / possibly lower educational quality cost? If it is a necessity, then by all means, do what you have to do, no discussion about that - a necessity is a necessity and priorities need to shift. Life happens, people adapt and go on.

But if it is not, or if life can be arranged differently, I am not sure many people who handle this very well. Maybe she can, I am not ruling out that option and there I agree with you :), but I am concerned about giving some of her work to her daughter, possibly not having enough time and mental energy to attend to her kids' schooling or on the other hand not attending to her clients as much as she should because she is trying to "mutitask".

 

 

(Interesting that you should bring up farms, though, you gave me some food for thought. :tongue_smilie: Admittedly it never really "clicked" with me that we are essentially even in that case talking about parents' job handed onto kids, I always viewed it more as life circumstances than parents' job, but now that you mention it, it would be interesting to think about that one and about where would be a reasonable line of children involvement in such a case, whether it is possible and to what extent to separate work duties from regular family duties. Hm.)

 

I agree that it would be wrong for your daughter to be doing your tutoring or your translations as you have been hired specifically for that. But I'm not sure if this would be the case with a homeschooling family doing child care. I would think that that would be one of the questions of potential clients. I would certainly ask who would be watching them and taking care of their needs.

 

But regarding the cooking of meals, I really don't see any difference between cooking for 5 family members or 7 including the two in child care. The work is no different and it is helping out the family even if the other children do benefit from that work. Kwim?

 

Regarding farming, we know of some families who schedule their school year to end early in May to have the summer free for farm work. Others take time off as needed when it's time to prepare the field, plant, harvest, etc.. Some school year round and have a shorter school day to allow time for chores and all. There are so many different ways to homeschool and still have children who are well educated. :)

 

All of that said, when it comes down to it, school is my dd's main job. I tell her that. But she still helps out here and looks for ways to volunteer and/or work outside the home as well.

 

Yes I agree that the OP, or anyone doing this, would have to be in tune with their own children's needs and make sure that the extra responsibilities aren't adversely affecting their education and overall well being. :)

[Amy in TX]

Yes' date=' educational goals were very different then. But if I use the example of my father's family, his family owned retail businesses. The children all attended school, private until the Depression hit, and most went onto college and graduated, some with more advanced degrees. Education was highly valued, but so was work both in the shops and at home. Admittedly there were fewer hours of free time especially during the high school years, but their education didn't suffer.

 

Regarding the quality of their education, it far exceeded what is the norm today. I would venture to say that they completed what's typical today by 9th or 10th grade. Their studies were rigorous. Their vocabularies phenomenal. They can quote Shakespeare and others and their knowledge of history included so much more than the typical now. Latin was studied by all, even in the public schools. For the sciences, their lab equipment was probably not up to today's standards and of course there was no computer technology, but math was probably on par - although I don't know if calculus was offered in high school or not.

 

My grandmother had no formal education beyond 2nd grade. Her teacher became ill, and that was the end of school. She would have loved more education, but that wasn't an option. She learned English as her second language here - both reading and writing fluently. She ran the business end of the business which involved four shops at one time, so her math, bookkeeping skills, and business acumen were good as well.

 

I think that they'd all tell you that there was nothing romantic about working hard both at school, at home and on the job, but it's what was. And with the economy today, I think this will become more the norm, rather than the exception, with more and more families - homeschoolers included.[/quote']

 

 

Your family sounds terrific. :) I'm glad they made it all work, and work so well.

 

I don't disagree at all that standards within the schools were higher in the past than they are now. But the required course of study for everyone now is much more extensive than it used to be. My hat is off to your grandmother--I find her incredibly admirable--but I doubt very strongly that what she did would be possible in this generation (at least without inheriting a business), because no one in most professional fields will hire or invest in someone without a college degree, let alone without any formal schooling at all.

 

That's what I'm getting at: that in today's society, it is more and more the case that, to make a decent living, not just high school but college must be finished. I'd guess that in past generations, before the GI Bill and federal financial aid, college wasn't even on the radar screen for families without the wherewithal to afford a university education. So it would have been easier to give helping to support the family equal (or higher) priority than education. More education wouldn't necessarily have been of more practical value.

 

Now, the children's education is becoming more directly tied to the family's survival, and it's harder to justify not giving it top priority, simply from a practical standpoint.

 

I think the tradeoffs now, iow, are more serious than they may have been in our grandparents' generation.

[Teachin'Mine]

Your family sounds terrific. :) I'm glad they made it all work, and work so well.

 

I don't disagree at all that standards within the schools were higher in the past than they are now. But the required course of study for everyone now is much more extensive than it used to be. My hat is off to your grandmother--I find her incredibly admirable--but I doubt very strongly that what she did would be possible in this generation (at least without inheriting a business), because no one in most professional fields will hire or invest in someone without a college degree, let alone without any formal schooling at all.

 

That's what I'm getting at: that in today's society, it is more and more the case that, to make a decent living, not just high school but college must be finished. I'd guess that in past generations, before the GI Bill and federal financial aid, college wasn't even on the radar screen for families without the wherewithal to afford a university education. So it would have been easier to give helping to support the family equal (or higher) priority than education. More education wouldn't necessarily have been of more practical value.

 

Now, the children's education is becoming more directly tied to the family's survival, and it's harder to justify not giving it top priority, simply from a practical standpoint.

 

I think the tradeoffs now, iow, are more serious than they may have been in our grandparents' generation.

 

Thank you. :)

 

Yes, higher education is needed for a much larger percentage of jobs now than it was then. That has definitely changed.

 

When you mentioned that it wouldn't be possible today, my first thought was of Korean and Chinese immigrants. (And I'm not stereotyping - I'm thinking of a few families situations I'm familiar with.) Granted some of them do come here with some amount of money, but many start with very little and end up very "successful". I'm thinking of the fruit stand, Chinese restaurant, or laundry business. Often the family lives above the business or in a small apartment in the back of the store. The whole family works there. The children still get an excellent education, as education is often highly valued, but the work at the store is very important to the family's well being. These children have less free time, but their education is enhanced by what they gain of real world business experience.

 

I absolutely agree that it's best that the family business doesn't adversely affect the children's education. :)

[Hwin]

If it is understood by the daycare families that you will be taking their kids to various activities then yes, it would be a lot to take on but you have to pay the bills.

 

I would try and see if I could get kids for before/after care rather than all day; I know someone who used to do JUST that and it paid plenty for her situation.

 

Personally, I don't see any problem with enlisting your older children to help, if that is necessary to make ends meet. I often took on extra responsibility as the oldest (babysitting and preparing meals) so that my parents could work and not lose the house. I remember my mom trying to come up with unique ways to balance it - working as a home health care aide, while bringing me and the baby along. I took care of the baby, she took care of the old man, she nursed the baby when he slept, etc.

 

I wouldn't stretch myself thin for extra money, though.

[Amy in TX]

When you mentioned that it wouldn't be possible today' date=' my first thought was of Korean and Chinese immigrants. (And I'm not stereotyping - I'm thinking of a few families situations I'm familiar with.) Granted some of them do come here with some amount of money, but many start with very little and end up very "successful". I'm thinking of the fruit stand, Chinese restaurant, or laundry business. Often the family lives above the business or in a small apartment in the back of the store. The whole family works there. The children still get an excellent education, as education is often highly valued, but the work at the store is very important to the family's well being. These children have less free time, but their education is enhanced by what they gain of real world business experience.[/quote']

 

Very good points. :)

[Guest]

The whole family works there. The children still get an excellent education' date=' as education is often highly valued, but the work at the store is very important to the family's well being. These children have less free time, but their education is enhanced by what they gain of real world business experience.[/quote']

 

When I can afford it, I love to buy fruit and vegetables from the Chino farmstand. The Chinos are Japanese-American (third generation now) small farmers who specialize in organic, heirloom varieties of produce, much of which they sell to fancy celebrity restaurants in San Diego, LA, and San Franciso. All their kids have worked at the stand, which sells to local chefs and families, as they grew up. Several of the kids went on to UC Berkeley.

 

I've read stories about homeschooling families, particularly the "pioneer" families whose kids were growing up in the 70s and 80s, who started homeschool supply and curricula businesses in their home. I think, but I'm not sure, that this included the Richmanns (of PA Homeschoolers fame). I remember reading a number of stories about kids helping with invoices, packing, and shipping materials.

 

The farrier who works at the barn where dd rides apprenticed both his kids in his work when they were in high school. One has gone on to college; the other is becoming a farrier herself, is still in 12th grade, but has earned enough money to take herself to London and Ireland next month and run the London Marathon. I suspect if she decides to go to college after a gap year, or even several years spent working and earning, she'll be a very attractive applicant because of all her very evident motivation.

 

There are examples of this kind of thing everywhere, at least where I live. For many families, having kids do real work that contributes to the family economic enterprise is just as important a part of their upbringing -- AND their overall education -- as formal learning. Others prioritize formal academic learning over everything else. I think both are perfectly respectable, and admirable, choices.

[Teachin'Mine]

When I can afford it, I love to buy fruit and vegetables from the Chino farmstand. The Chinos are Japanese-American (third generation now) small farmers who specialize in organic, heirloom varieties of produce, much of which they sell to fancy celebrity restaurants in San Diego, LA, and San Franciso. All their kids have worked at the stand, which sells to local chefs and families, as they grew up. Several of the kids went on to UC Berkeley.

 

I've read stories about homeschooling families, particularly the "pioneer" families whose kids were growing up in the 70s and 80s, who started homeschool supply and curricula businesses in their home. I think, but I'm not sure, that this included the Richmanns (of PA Homeschoolers fame). I remember reading a number of stories about kids helping with invoices, packing, and shipping materials.

 

The farrier who works at the barn where dd rides apprenticed both his kids in his work when they were in high school. One has gone on to college; the other is becoming a farrier herself, is still in 12th grade, but has earned enough money to take herself to London and Ireland next month and run the London Marathon. I suspect if she decides to go to college after a gap year, or even several years spent working and earning, she'll be a very attractive applicant because of all her very evident motivation.

 

There are examples of this kind of thing everywhere, at least where I live. For many families, having kids do real work that contributes to the family economic enterprise is just as important a part of their upbringing -- AND their overall education -- as formal learning. Others prioritize formal academic learning over everything else. I think both are perfectly respectable, and admirable, choices.

 

Wonderful examples! :)

[jamajo]

For many families, having kids do real work that contributes to the family economic enterprise is just as important a part of their upbringing -- AND their overall education -- as formal learning. Others prioritize formal academic learning over everything else. I think both are perfectly respectable, and admirable, choices.

 

:iagree:

[jamajo]

OK, but what I wrote does have a bearing on the "too much to handle" question because in order to satisfy her paying customers, she could NOT simply drag along the daycare kids to her kids' appointments as proposed. She would have to find different arrangements or forgo these activities, which would complicate matters for the OP and make the daycare operation harder to handle.

 

As an aside: in our state, our daycare provider was required to get a chauffeur's license in order to be allowed to transport clients' children. Which is another thing the OP needs to consider.

 

 

You're right it does have bearing. I did mention to my husband if parents would feel llike their children would be neglected b/c of my homeschooling responsibilities and I do have to consider that and be realistic about how this would play out on a day to day basis.

 

I think I will focus on B/A care only if I move forward.

[jbrig]

You sound like you are trying to take your time and think it through carefully, which I think is very wise of you.

 

I know it would be too much for me, personally. Along w/ the other concerns mentioned, I would also want to consider how/where I would be able to find time to spend w/ my children *outside* of schooling and activities. I cherish the time spent alone w/ just my dh and my kids (upcoming 4th and 9th graders), whether it's playing a board game, or just hanging out, or going to do a family activity like putt-putt/movies. I know that this season in our lives, while our kids are here at home with us, is just that--a season--and I don't want to miss my opportunity or regret that I was so busy w/ other things that I didn't make the most of our time together.

[Live2Ride]

For me, Before and After care wouldn't be a large deal, but I like my evenings free for activities so that wouldn't be good. I could not and would not do childcare...too many liabilities today, too many hoops to jump through and I've enough on my plate with just my two children and this farm. :D

[Ester Maria]

All their kids have worked at the stand, which sells to local chefs and families, as they grew up. Several of the kids went on to UC Berkeley. [...]

The farrier who works at the barn where dd rides apprenticed both his kids in his work when they were in high school.

Karen,

 

Just out of curiosity, if you happen to know: were those children payed for their work? After all, we are talking about actual work here, work on something that family makes money from, and I am really curious to know whether those children were basically unpaid employers for their own parents' business or were actually paid full wages for all of their work, as any other worker in the business would be?

 

And if they were payed as I hope they were, next question: were they or would have theoretically been allowed not to work if they had opted so, or to work less if they had opted for the minimum of money and maximum of free time to spend on other things? I mean, if it was technically a regular payed job, would they have been able to "opt out", especially if it was to learn more / more deeply / etc.?

 

See, I have that typical Jewish reasoning that work (of this type, as a trade) is more of a means than of a goal, so working and learning when one has the luxury that they can freely only learn sounds somewhat sacrilegious to my ears :tongue_smilie: (well, at least during primary and secondary education, and especially if we are talking about bright, driven students who can go so far with focused learning), as I grew up on the mantra of "you are now free to only learn because the previous generations have sacrificed so much so that you can learn, should times change and work become necessary you will adapt, as they have too, but meanwhile, you owe to them / your family / your nation / etc. to learn" and stuff along those lines - but I get that people can have different priorities. Just curious, if you know, what was the situation with those kids.

[Laurie4b]

I couldn't do it, that's for sure.

 

One issue is the number of things it sounds like you would be doing for the first time.

 

I think the first year you homeschool a child in high school has a steep learning curve. And since it goes on the child's transcript, there is not a lot of room to mess up. For instance, if you started and it became too much, it would be a hardship on the parents to find a new daycare partway through the year and yet you couldn't sacrifice your daughter's education, either.

 

Do you already have the foster child? Because a foster child can take up almost 100% of your time, especially the first year. And the time they absorb is weighty time: draining emotionally. If the child has been living with you several months or more, than you already have a sense of that child and how she or he fits into the home.

 

To add a day care into that (another first?) ... whew!

 

Have you talked with the foster care agency? They may not approve the set up.

[jamajo]

 

 

Have you talked with the foster care agency? They may not approve the set up.

 

 

That's a point I hadn't considered. At this point it is a no go. But what is interesting is someone posted on my local homeschool yahoo loop that they have a friend who wanted home care for her 22 month old until May.

 

This is more of the type of setup I was thinking of. I sent a reply with all the disclaimers regarding my situation. So we will see.

[jibaker103]

That's a point I hadn't considered. At this point it is a no go. But what is interesting is someone posted on my local homeschool yahoo loop that they have a friend who wanted home care for her 22 month old until May.

 

This is more of the type of setup I was thinking of. I sent a reply with all the disclaimers regarding my situation. So we will see.

FYI I tried to be a foster care parent and run my daycare and the state would not go for it. They counted all kids - daycare, foster, and your own - in the ratio. Something to think about!

[cathmom]

The OP was/is considering having 1 or 2 little ones to care for during the day. There are many families homeschooling with more children than that. .

 

As someone who has always had at least one preschool child of my own in the house while homeschooling (so we're talking 15 years now),

 

YOU COULDN'T PAY ME ENOUGH TO WATCH ANY MORE CHILDREN!!!!

 

I am so excited that 2 days a week this coming school year, my one remaining preschool child will be in an actual preschool! Imagine what work we can get done with no babies/preschoolers around!!!!!!!!!

[Teachin'Mine]

As someone who has always had at least one preschool child of my own in the house while homeschooling (so we're talking 15 years now),

 

YOU COULDN'T PAY ME ENOUGH TO WATCH ANY MORE CHILDREN!!!!

 

I am so excited that 2 days a week this coming school year, my one remaining preschool child will be in an actual preschool! Imagine what work we can get done with no babies/preschoolers around!!!!!!!!!

 

 

:lol:

[Julie in MN]

to try and have a daycare with 1-2 kids maybe before/after care too and

1 under 5y foster child?

and homeschool a 9th grader, 7th grader, 5th grader?

 

My schedule includes:

Monday coop 12-2 pm (daycare and foster child must go and be occupied by me)

Tuesday piano 10:45 - 11:15 am (2 homeschooler's stay home, everyone else goes)

Wednesday Art 12-2 pm (travel just to drop off)

 

I'm I crazy or can I manage this? Oldest daughter can help with meals and care of the children for a little during each day.

I'm just going to respond to this OP. I started to read thru the responses and just didn't want to read them. I'm just going to respond to this original ? with my own experience.

 

I've homeschooled while (a) working part-time, both in and outside the home, (b) taking care of an ill husband, and © taking care of my grandson, who started out as a newborn :lol: living in our home and is now 4 years old but comes here whenever his mom works.

 

Anything *can* be done. The problems I think are important to consider are (a) what will be the fallout for each party including yourself and your marriage, since you can't be everything to everyone, and (b) whether your children understand this as a necessity vs. a choice to focus on something other than them.

 

One thing that helps immensely for me when balancing homeschooling with other things is to run my home as I would run my home, establishing patterns and routines. That way, questions aren't repeated daily. Everyone knows when school starts, when they get to participate, when they are expected to work or play on their own, when they are expected to help someone else (and whether there will be school credit, cash, or reward in heaven), when we will eat, etc. This continually needs to be updated, since children grow and life changes, but when I pay attention to establishing routine, we all benefit.

 

I hope you figure out what is do-able in your real world -- what is a necessity and what is optional.

Julie

[MamaAkins]

It is doable. I have done in-home childcare for the past 10 years. This year, I will be homeschooling my 9th grader, 5th grader, 2nd grader, and preschooler, while babysitting full-time for a 3 year old and part-time for an almost 2 year old. We have many afterschool activities.

I will say that you will need to be super organized and be blessed with an extra dose of patience to make it through each day!

Good luck!