Should we skip WWE4 and go straight to WWS?

[Jenny in GA]

My daughter is ten and has about 12 weeks of lessons left in WWE3. We're working on it this summer and I'm hoping to have her finish in around September.

 

Since she'll technically be in fifth grade, should she just go straight to WWS?

 

First of all, when will WWS even be available?

Is WWE4 necessary? (It actually seems like a lot of people have said they dislike it for some reason.)

 

Also, for History, should we wait until doing WWS until doing outlining in Kingfisher?

 

Thanks!

[mamamoon]

:lurk5:

[Mallory]

Is she good at narrations? I personally feel like the dictations in WWE4 workbook are just too much. Even the ones laid out in the hardback text are much smaller than the ones in the workbook.

 

My oldest went from WWE3 to the beta testing of WWS and did just fine.

 

I am pretty sure I will do the same thing with my rising 5th grader (he did WWE3 last year, and we'll move on to WWS next year).

 

And I plan to do WWE1-3 in 2nd to 4th grade with my next two students as well.

[HSMom2One]

Why would you want to skip a level? Is it because you feel you have to be at a certain grade level? If so, I'd like to encourage you to let go of that need and consider working toward mastery. If it's not about grade level, then why the rush? The two series (WWE and WWS) are there for a purpose. They guide the student through exercises that are carefully planned out to build skill one step at a time. Building skill of any kind takes time.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

P.S. BTW, my dd is going into 7th grade, but I'm placing her at Level 1 of WWS even though I know she is beyond 5th grade level. In our case, I want to convert to SWB's program from R&S, and I feel it will be worth it to work with those methods even if she'll be at high school level when we complete the series. Like I said in another thread recently, the more we homeschool, the less grade level really matters. I think it's better instead to think about mastery and placing the student at the level and method of teaching that she is ready for. The beauty of hs'ing is that we can customize what our children need in order to advance and master each subject.

Edited July 14, 2011 by HSMom2One

[Jenny in GA]

Why would you want to skip a level? Is it because you feel you have to be at a certain grade level? If so, I'd like to encourage you to let go of that need and consider working toward mastery. If it's not about grade level, then why the rush? The two series (WWE and WWS) are there for a purpose. They guide the student through exercises that are carefully planned out to build skill one step at a time. Building skill of any kind takes time.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, to some extent I feel like I "should" be at a certain level.

A couple months ago I listed what my daughter was doing (WWE3, AAS3, FLL3) in another thread I started, and many people said "Why is a ten year old doing third grade work?" and "Unless she has a learning disability, this is not what she should be doing."

 

It kind of stunned me how many people said that, and how strongly. So I'm trying to remedy that.

 

Also, I thought I've read a lot of posts from people saying that either they don't like WWE4 and/or that it's not necessary, so if that's the case, I wanted to save my money.

 

Thank

 

Thanks for your comments. Certainly stuff to think about.

 

Jenny

[Hedgehogs4]

Just to put your mind at ease a bit, I am planning on doing WWE3 with my ds10 not because he is doing 3rd grade work but because he needs that level. He is extremely articulate and is actually pretty good at writing original sentences, etc, so I don't consider him "behind" at all. It's just that when we started the curriculum he was not strong with spelling and putting pencil to paper in general, so I didn't rush it. I am thinking that we'll start WWS by 6th grade, if he's ready. Even so, I would rather my child enjoy the process of writing and master the skills than feel like he's always struggling to catch up and end up hating it.

[JudoMom]

My daughter is ten and has about 12 weeks of lessons left in WWE3. We're working on it this summer and I'm hoping to have her finish in around September.

 

Since she'll technically be in fifth grade, should she just go straight to WWS?

 

First of all, when will WWS even be available?

Is WWE4 necessary? (It actually seems like a lot of people have said they dislike it for some reason.)

 

Also, for History, should we wait until doing WWS until doing outlining in Kingfisher?

 

Thanks!

 

I'll be doing WWS with my 6th & 7th graders, and I plan on doing dictation practice from WWE 3 & 4. This is a skill they're weak on, but I don't see an issue with working on these concurrently.

 

I'm not sure when WWS is coming out, but if you wanted to start on outlining beforehand, this workbook by Remedia is great. My older two completed it last year, and then we moved on to outlining the history encyclopedia.

[robsiew]

Just remember WWE says "LEVEL" 3, not "GRADE 3". ;) In the hsing world we must re-adjust our thinking to levels, not grades. Keep in mind grade levels are an organizational feature of a public/private school. They must be able to organize all those kids into groups of some sort. Grade levels do this. As hs'ers we don't need to do that! Yeah! :D

 

I just wanted to address people not liking/needing WWE4. Personally, I would not skip it. I believe there is a lot to be had in that level. It is tough and that's why a lot of people don't like it. My ds did struggle through some of it, BUT... we finished it and I would have to say I wouldn't do it any differently. The dictations are terribly long for the most part and not simple vocab either. I did everything I could to help him through it some weeks. Other weeks he'd have a "break through" and have little difficulty with it. It's probably the toughest thing he had to do last year, but it was worth it. He was so proud of himself once he figured out he really could hold most of a paragraph in his head. His writing has improved 100 fold since we started the WWE series.

 

Remember that our kids are young and we are forming their thinking patterns. Yes, it may be difficult, but most things that are worth learning for the long-haul are difficult up front. To us adults some of these things we're asking of our kids seem impossible to us, but their brains are still growing and still being trained! They CAN DO IT!! (I'm not speaking of kids with any learning disabilities here, I'm speaking "neurotypical kids).

 

I try to keep in the back of my mind the pay-off down the road that will come to fruition for my kids since they have an excellent basis in writing. No public or private school around here can boast of that! (Writing is the one subject I hear parents of school children complain about the most in our area). For that reason I wouldn't rush the process.

 

Okay, I'm stepping down now! I just don't want you to throw out something of great benefit because some people have scared you away. Whatever you choose to do, make sure it's because it's what's best for your child... not because someone convinced you that's the way it should be. ;)

[Matryoshka]

My dd10 last year was doing great with WWE3 but was getting bored with it. I looked ahead to WWE4 and saw that one of the main skills mastered in that book was for them to write down their own narrations. She was already doing that (she demanded to). She also wasn't having trouble with the dictations (she actually liked them). I told her she could quit doing WWE3 (we were almost done) if she did the WSS beta. She did great with that, but then there weren't many weeks of it and we ended up with a mishmash the rest of the year.

 

The plan is to do WSS for next year, but now I want to make sure the skills she had didn't atrophy. :tongue_smilie: Over the summer we're doing a couple of the end weeks in WWE3 we didn't get to, plus the WWE4 section of the hardback book. If she's fine with that, then we'll forge ahead.

[Mom-ninja.]

Thanks.

 

Yes, to some extent I feel like I "should" be at a certain level.

A couple months ago I listed what my daughter was doing (WWE3, AAS3, FLL3) in another thread I started, and many people said "Why is a ten year old doing third grade work?" and "Unless she has a learning disability, this is not what she should be doing."

 

It kind of stunned me how many people said that, and how strongly. So I'm trying to remedy that.

 

 

 

 

Jenny

 

Really?! I will need to find that thread. That makes me angry.

 

My ds is 10 and will technically be starting 5th grade in August/Sept. He is in WWE 3, AAS 3, and FLL 4. We should finish all those by August.

 

LA is not his strong suit, and that's fine. Just because a child is a certain age does not mean his ability is going to be the same level across the board. Children do not develop at the same rate.

[Mom-ninja.]

I just did a search for the thread you were talking about and I didn't find it. Was it on this forum?

 

I did find the thread in which you asked about WWE level 3, and every person responded said level 3 for a 10 yr old was fine.

[EKS]

We used WWE 2 (half of it; we stopped because my son demanded to do "real writing") two years ago and then did our own thing for a year. We will be using WWS next year because it seems to target the skills that my son needs to work on.

[Jenny in GA]

Really?! I will need to find that thread. That makes me angry.

 

My ds is 10 and will technically be starting 5th grade in August/Sept. He is in WWE 3, AAS 3, and FLL 4. We should finish all those by August.

 

LA is not his strong suit, and that's fine. Just because a child is a certain age does not mean his ability is going to be the same level across the board. Children do not develop at the same rate.

 

The thread is here.

 

 

To be fair, I started the thread because I was concerned about her not doing well on a standardized test (still haven't gotten the test results back yet, so I don't know) ... But I became concerned about the materials I'm using when multiple people said things like, "Barring a learning disability, she should be doing harder work than that" and "Why is she doing third grade work?" or "of course she can't do well on a fourth grade test if she's using those materials."

 

I still find those to be interesting comments, though, now that I think about it again: When I was in third grade (or fourth), no way was I dictating sentences that Thomas Jefferson wrote, or reading excerpts from Alice Through the Looking-Glass and we never diagrammed sentences in elementary school (FLL3), nor do I remember memorized definitions for parts of speech. I don't remember memorizing and reciting poems by Emily Dickenson (or anyone) in elementary school either.

 

I do distinctly remember learning about prepositions and linking verbs (both which are in FLL3) in fourth grade.

 

And I was in advanced classes in a "very good school" (whatever that means).

 

So in a way it's funny to me to think a ten year old is "behind" or "doing third grade work" in WWE3 and FLL3. If that's true (and it well may be), then third grade (and fourth and fifth) are very different than they were when I was a kid.

[Mallory]

This is what I mean by too much.

 

In the hardback text, the instructions for level 4, week 36 say that to pass the level student should be able to read a passage independantly and write down a 3 or 4 sentance narration and take a dictation of around 25-30 words. That is to pass level 4!

 

But those dictation exercises in the workbook are much harder than that. In fact the mastery evaluation from level 3 (week 36) has 30 words and the one from level 4 has 61!!! So to me if you have completed level 3 you really are doing what needs to be done (if your student is writing more than one sentance for narrations).

 

I have heard that the dictations in the workbooks are meant to be for the very best students, so I don't feel bad that my boys can't do that whole paragraph for dictation. They can write down a few sentance narration and they are ready to move on to learning to write outlines, not work on 60+ word dictations for another year.

[Mom-ninja.]

The thread is here.

 

 

To be fair, I started the thread because I was concerned about her not doing well on a standardized test (still haven't gotten the test results back yet, so I don't know) ...

 

During the summer between 2nd and 3rd grade, I had my ds tested. At that point he had just finished Right Start math level B and we had only dine a few lessons in level C. Level B is considered 1st grade and C 2nd grade so technically he was behind almost a year in our math program. However, he scored at a 5th grade 9th month level in math. It's not what I expected considering where he was in the curriculum.

 

You never know how your dc is going to score on tests. Sometimes the level in the curriculum doesn't matter.

 

I'm sure your dd did fine, and I wouldn't worry about "catching up."

[janainaz]

I, personally, would go ahead and use WWE4. There really is no rush, and it is plenty challenging for a 5th grader.

 

I had some doubts about WWE4 about a third of the way through the book. The dictations seemed so difficult due to the length, the punctuation, and overall wording. I felt a complete lack of confidence because I could not hold the lengthy selections in my own mind. My son had been doing very well, but the longer passages were beginning to discourage him, and he was losing confidence. After watching SWB do a dictation session with her son (there's a link on youtube), I felt more confident to continue on with WWE4. You should take ten minutes to watch it because it is very helpful. I did break down the longer passages, as needed. Some I gave to my ds in two parts, and some in three. I continued to challenge him, but not to the point of frustration.

 

Additionally, my ds's history narrations were always so well written, and I could only attribute that to what he had gained from WWE. Every book had given him more practice narrating, and it was not difficult for me to see the progression in his writing skills. I am really glad I chose to stick with it.

 

We are only on week 4 of WWS, but so far it is giving my ds even more valuable tools for outlining and summarizing. He continues to get better and better at those skills. We are in the logic stage, and he is doing a lot more outlining, and he needs those tools and tips. I actually am beginning to not despise teaching writing. It gets my thumbs up, but I would continue through WWE4. **I did move through the book more quickly with my ds. We did a dictation and a narration every day.

[janainaz]

A couple months ago I listed what my daughter was doing (WWE3, AAS3, FLL3) in another thread I started, and many people said "Why is a ten year old doing third grade work?" and "Unless she has a learning disability, this is not what she should be doing."

 

Really? Wow, I'm glad I did not see that thread. That is just plain ridiculous.

[Elizabeth in MN]

From what I have seen of WWE4 it is just dictation and narration.

[Colleen in SEVA]

In this video, SWB states that she is using WWE4 with her 6th grader.

 

 

[abbeyej]

If she is able to write quality 3-5 sentence narrations from the text in WWE3, she should be fine to skip WWE4. I don't dislike WWE4, but I don't think she *needs* it *if* she can read the text in WWE and write a good (well-organized 3-5 sentence summary without mechanical errors) narration on her own without help.