Anyone planning to replace R&S English with SWBs ALL?

[Create Your Ritual]

I was just about ready to order my dd10 R&S English Level 5, and then I saw the samples of WWS and ALL and wondered if I could do them instead?? It would be crazy to try to do them both, right? Or would it?? I AM a little crazy. ;-)

 

I forgot to mention that dd10 will also be working her way through WWE4 and CC (Classical Composition - Fable/Narrative). I am planning on keeping all of those, but I noticed A LOT of her work for next year in History (HO Level II), Science (Logic Stage Elemental Science) as even the CC are requiring knowledge of outlining. I am thinking WWS would be a great way to learn it before I tackle anything else. So.. I am really just wondering about R&S English for the grammar component and some of the writing skills we might miss... not sure what, but there 'might' be something. ;-) Would AAL be a good, solid replacement for R&S5 .. would it move to fast for dd10, or is it set for her level anyway?? Does anyone know if there are going to be other levels of ALL? Thank you.

Edited June 30, 2011 by SaDonna

[HSMom2One]

I am replacing R&S with WWS & ALL. My dd is actually going into 7th grade, but she completed R&S 5 last year and I'd like to follow SWB's methods from here on. As I shared in another thread I've decided to go over to SWB's writing and grammar program with a goal of teaching to mastery over a four year period.

 

Honestly, it would be overkill to do more than one writing and/or grammar program the same year. WWS & ALL are complete grammar and composition courses on their own and are designed to be used together, although they could be used independently if you have one or the other that you prefer partnering from elsewhere.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Create Your Ritual]

Thanks Lucinda. Having looked at the ALL sample and already having done R&S5, do you think doing R&S 5 is a pre-requisite to move into ALL or would we be fine? DD did MCT Island and R&S last year and knows all her parts of speech, prepositional phrases and clauses.

[awstgs]

I'm stumped! What is ALL?

[Emmy]

I'm stumped! What is ALL?

 

Advanced Language Lessons, SWB's new grammar program.

[awstgs]

I didn't know about this! What grade is this for?

[Lori in MS]

To be completed after FLL 4 or 5th-6th grade. I am going to use it with my 6th grader. He completed FLL 4 this year.

[awstgs]

I think I had my son too early, or SWB wrote these things too late! :) We used FLL and SOTW, but we missed out on all the other grammar and writing. He will be in 8th this year, so we have missed out again! I'm so jealous!

[HSMom2One]

Thanks Lucinda. Having looked at the ALL sample and already having done R&S5, do you think doing R&S 5 is a pre-requisite to move into ALL or would we be fine? DD did MCT Island and R&S last year and knows all her parts of speech, prepositional phrases and clauses.

 

No, I don't think it is a prerequisite at all. In fact, ALL is designed follow FLL4. One of the PHP customer service reps told me that ALL is presented right at grade level, and that a student should be able to start it at grade level without a problem. She said that ALL does a lot of review while also introducing new concepts. Gathering from what she told me, I think that if your dd is going into 5th grade she should do just fine.

 

I know that some of what my dd is going to have in ALL is going to be repeated from R&S 5, but that's okay with me because it will include other things that R&S 5 didn't have. I'm also thinking that because it is done in SWB's style and methods, my dd will get the structure down as we move on with the series.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Create Your Ritual]

Thanks for the responses. I am looking forward to it.

[dcjlkplus3]

Me too!

I'm holding off on buying R&S 5, hoping that ALL and WWS are out close enough to us starting in September :D

[Jeanne in MN]

It is SOOOOOOO tempting!! The biggest issue is I already have R&S 5 and ALL is going to cost a chunk of change. I also don't care for scripted lessons, but if money weren't an issue, I think I would in a heartbeat.

[SilverMoon]

.

Edited September 23, 2023 by SilverMoon

[Kathie in VA]

I'm tempted but my ds should be thru with R&S 5 in a few weeks. Does ALL cover 6th grade yet or is it just 5th grade at this point? Last I checked WWS is also coming out but it too focuses on 5th grade at this point.

 

If we can't use WWS and/or ALL then I might skip a year of grammar and just do literature/writing with history (leaning towards Truthquest - Ren/Ref). I might even push more of the Editor in Chief software that we have: grammar for fun! We tend to follow a friends recommendation and just do the odd years of R&S Eng, so my other alternative is to just get R&S Eng 7. All the repetition in there makes skipping doable.

[Create Your Ritual]

I am still trying to wrap my brain around whether R&S5 holds any information on outlining or writing paragraphs that won't be covered in WWS? dd10 is going to need outlining help this year, and I am thinking it's going to need to be more than a one level outline for her history and science as well as the classical composition stories she is working on. Lucinda... (see, I tracked you down on my original post), did you see value in the outlining skills taught the way R&S5 teach them, or after viewing WWS would that be just as well? I can't tell, not having R&S in front of me.

[Quiver0f10]

My younger ones use FLL and WWE so we will use ALL and WWS with them.

[TC5]

I am still trying to wrap my brain around whether R&S5 holds any information on outlining or writing paragraphs that won't be covered in WWS? dd10 is going to need outlining help this year, and I am thinking it's going to need to be more than a one level outline for her history and science as well as the classical composition stories she is working on. Lucinda... (see, I tracked you down on my original post), did you see value in the outlining skills taught the way R&S5 teach them, or after viewing WWS would that be just as well? I can't tell, not having R&S in front of me.

 

Quick answer: for 1-level outlines, use WWS. For 3-level, you can use R&S 5, but it might not be enough. With the practice it sounds like you'll give her in content areas, though, she should be fine.

 

My son did R&S 5 this past year, and it does have some outlining, but the outlining he did for history was WTM-style (1-level for 5th grade). I taught him that outside of R&S 5, which teaches 3-level, I think (I don't have the book with me right now). Having seen the sample for WWS, if it had been available last year, I would have let my son skip the R&S outlining lessons altogether (as it was, I just had him read them for familiarity, as he did with all the writing lessons. He read the lessons but didn't do the exercises.).

 

So my son can do 1-level outlines and probably could do 2- or 3-level, but I intend to have him work through WWS this year anyway and probably continue with 1-level outlines as long as WWS does, even though he'll be in 6th grade.

 

I just don't know about ALL. I love the ideas of all the grammar in 4 years and using literature to teach grammar and following SWB's ideas. But I don't think my sons or I could handle the scripted lessons. I recently finished FLL 1 and 2 with my second son, and we were thinking it should have been for K-1st grade because it seems geared for so young a child. As I was just looking at the ALL sample, it occurred to me that maybe it wasn't the content but was just that I don't like scripted programs with older children (my son is only 8). I can't imagine using a scripted grammar program through 8th or 9th grade. I have an easier time altering a program that isn't scripted. Besides, with several children,I don't know how I could fit in the time to do the scripted program. With R&S, my son reads the lesson, and I join him for a few minutes to do the exercises orally. If he has any problems, then I teach it, but almost always he understands on his own. So we'll probably stick with Rod and Staff. Maybe I just won't make my younger boys start grammar in first grade!

 

Another question for helping decide whether to switch from R&S to ALL...

I know R&S has a LOT of review and extra practice (sometimes a very good thing -- easier to skip exercises than to make up more), but how did SWB do it? How can she fit all the grammar (still 5-6 years worth of R&S if you don't start until grade 5 or 6 and go through their last book, English 10) in just 4 years? Maybe because R&S also includes writing, and that's not in ALL? Is ALL really going to be a complete grammar program? I think I trust SWB on this, but has anyone seen a table of contents or scope and sequence or comparison to Rod and Staff?

 

Good luck, everyone, in deciding this one! Two good choices.

[TC5]

Hmm. Maybe I could use ALL.

 

I just went back to SWB's blog to see if I had missed a TOC:

"This first levels, like First Language Lessons, is designed to be taught to the student by a parent or instructor. Once that foundation is laid, the next three levels will ask the student to work with much more independence."

 

So if I make the switch, can I do it with my oldest? He just completed R&S 5. Is there any information out there about whether he could skip to ALL Level 2 (after a year off of grammar waiting for it to be published?!) or needs to start with 5? If he can be finished with grammar in 4 years instead of 5 and not be bored to tears in ALL Level 1... Hmm. :confused:

 

ALL is at least looking more promising for all of my younger boys. But I do so like R&S. I really need to see ALL and stop thinking as I type. :D

[kanagnostos]

Ds11 is almost done with RS5. I looked at the samples of ALL because, to be honest, we're burning out on RS and looking for a change. For those of you who have used RS5, don't you think starting ALL level 1 would be repeating a lot? For example, the sample of ALL started with the definition of a noun and distinguishing between concrete and abstract nouns, which is something we covered ad nauseum in RS.

[Capt_Uhura]

THe samples of ALL are very misleading. I wish SWB would post the TOC. It very quickly got to conjugation of verbs, present tense, perfect tense, future perfect, etc. The review was quick and could easily be skipped. Unfortunately, SWB was reading the TOC to me at the RFWP mini-convention so I can't remember what all was covered.

[Sherri in MI]

I think I had my son too early, or SWB wrote these things too late! :) We used FLL and SOTW, but we missed out on all the other grammar and writing. He will be in 8th this year, so we have missed out again! I'm so jealous!

 

 

We're missing out too! My ds is entering 7th grade. I have always wished that I could've used WWE & FFL 3 & 4, but they were ready too late for DS. So I'm forced to use IEW, since I already purchased the Student Writing Intensive. And we use R&S for Grammar, which is very thorough, but rather tedious and boring in it's presentation.

 

But I've always loved the way Jessie Wise's & Susan Wise Bauer's materials are thorough, fun and so easy to implement. I do find IEW rather cumbersome to get through and implement. Honestly I never have completed the 16 hours of TWSS. I have enjoyed Andrew Pudewa speaking on other topics, but the TWSS dvds are sooooo long. Couldn't he streamline them?

[kanagnostos]

THe samples of ALL are very misleading. I wish SWB would post the TOC. It very quickly got to conjugation of verbs, present tense, perfect tense, future perfect, etc. The review was quick and could easily be skipped. Unfortunately, SWB was reading the TOC to me at the RFWP mini-convention so I can't remember what all was covered.

 

 

So do you think a switch from RS5 to ALL Level 1 is a reasonable switch from what you know of the progression of ALL?

[Capt_Uhura]

I have never seen RS5 so I can't answer that question.

[Joy at Home]

I am sooo out of the loop, because I did not know this. Where can I find info on ALL? I don't see it on the PHP site. Is it out yet? Exciting:001_smile:

 

Lisa

[PollyOR]

I am sooo out of the loop, because I did not know this. Where can I find info on ALL? I don't see it on the PHP site. Is it out yet? Exciting:001_smile:

 

Lisa

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/resource-roundup/new-grammar-and-writing-resources/

[Joy at Home]

Has she said when the full PDF will be available? Wondering if I start using the 5week sample if the completed book will be finished by the time I finish.

 

Tx,

Lisa

[Capt_Uhura]

I doubt ALL will be available in 5 weeks. My impression it will be closer to Nov or Dec for ALL.

[PollyOR]

Has she said when the full PDF will be available? Wondering if I start using the 5week sample if the completed book will be finished by the time I finish.

 

Tx,

Lisa

 

From SWB: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2854597&postcount=10

[Joy at Home]

From SWB: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2854597&postcount=10

 

Thank you:001_smile:

[TC5]

THe samples of ALL are very misleading. I wish SWB would post the TOC. It very quickly got to conjugation of verbs, present tense, perfect tense, future perfect, etc. The review was quick and could easily be skipped. Unfortunately, SWB was reading the TOC to me at the RFWP mini-convention so I can't remember what all was covered.

 

This is helpful. Thank you.

[Kathie in VA]

I'm also debating this. We have R&S Eng 5 and we are almost done with it. When I looked through the sample of ALL, it seems like we did most of not all of it in R&S 5. However the sample only shows the first 5 lessons so it is hard to tell. :confused:

 

SWB or someone: Can we get some idea of the TOC? I'd just like to be able to compare the scope with R&S Eng 5.

 

Thanks!

Kathie

[TC5]

I'm also debating this. We have R&S Eng 5 and we are almost done with it. When I looked through the sample of ALL, it seems like we did most of not all of it in R&S 5. However the sample only shows the first 5 lessons so it is hard to tell. :confused:

 

SWB or someone: Can we get some idea of the TOC? I'd just like to be able to compare the scope with R&S Eng 5.

 

Thanks!

Kathie

 

:iagree:

 

We've finished R&S 5 and I was planning to order R&S 6, but now I'm not sure. I'd love to see not only how ALL Level 1 compares with R&S 5 but the whole sequence: R&S 5-10 with ALL 1-4. I know that's asking a lot, but it would be very helpful in making choices! SWB's Writing Strands/IEW comparison of a few years ago was so helpful, and now I just need that for ALL/R&S!

 

Even if I don't use ALL for my 6th grader, I may use it for my younger boys. so now I am also wondering whether I really need to start them in formal grammar in 1st grade. I used FLL 1-2 for my second son, and he was going to use R&S 3 this year, but I've been thinking of skipping a year of grammar. Maybe with ALL, I could skip two years. And for the younger boys, no FLL or R&S and just teach basic parts of speech in 3rd-4th grade and then move into ALL. I just question again how all the grammar in the rigorous R&S can be compressed into 4 years of ALL. Maybe ALL moves very quickly and my boys really will need afew years of formal grammar first. :confused:

 

Is anyone beta testing ALL? If so, what do you know? :tongue_smilie:

[lovemy9kids]

:lurk5: