moonlight Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 My ds(8) and I were talking about protagonists and antagonists and we got to thinking that it would be fun to read a book from the antagonist's point of view...different perspective on a story... Does anyone know of any books out there written with the antagonist as the main character? It would be fun to see a different point of view. I know there are some fairy tale type books, even one by Roald Dahl?? Thanks, Seema Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 From what I remember in Deconstructing Penguins.....The Toothpaste Millionaire was one. Sounds like a great study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatDilan Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 And I have not read the books myself, however I did see the musical "Wicked." It might be interesting to read The Wizard of OZ and then Wicked or perhaps Cinderella and Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister? Though both turn the story so that within the context of their books, the antagonist becomes the protagonist. As I said, though, I have not read the books, but LOVED Wicked the musical. It was interesting to see a theater production where romance was nearly nil and the whole focus was on friendship instead. My best friend took me to see it.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 And I have not read the books myself, however I did see the musical "Wicked." It might be interesting to read The Wizard of OZ and then Wicked or perhaps Cinderella and Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister? The book Wicked is definitely not for eight year olds :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morosophe Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I can't think of any for kids except The True Story of the Three Little Pigs. For an older crowd, you could argue that C. S. Lewis' Till We Have Faces is exactly that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 From what I remember in Deconstructing Penguins.....The Toothpaste Millionaire was one. Sounds like a great study. No, not the Toothpaste Millionaire. I can't think of one for younger kids, but Screwtape Letters is definitely what you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatDilan Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 The book Wicked is definitely not for eight year olds :D Sorry. :001_unsure: I tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonlight Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 definitely not the toothpaste millionaire!! funny thing is that he just read that today!! will add wicked to my reading list! :-) seema Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 From what I remember in DP there was some discusion about the definition of an antagonist. They at one point settled on "the person that resists the forward movement of the plot". The authors may have settled on a different definition of antagonist...."good vs evil". But if you stay with the first one I still feel that The Toothpaste Millionaire fits the bill. The boy did everything in his power to resist his own success. The teacher he loved to hate fought hard for him to be successful. The book in its simplist terms was about him working hard for success. If you stay with good vs evil then, no, I agree, it does not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 On my nightstand (waiting to be read) is John Gardner's "Grendel", which is Beowulf from the monster's point of view. I hasn't read it yet so don't know how "adult" it might be. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonlight Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 Trina, you are right about the definition of antagonist in DP. Have to look at the book, TM, from your perspective and discuss it with ds. We were thinking that the banker who would not give him the funds was the one that was the antagonist because he was not letting the action of the story go forward?? Thanks! Seema Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 You have a great start. Good Luck! It is fun to bat ideas around, isn't it. I will keep my ear to the ground for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto3innc Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 This may not count, but what came in my mind was The Murder of Rodger Ackroyd by Agatha Christie. It may be a murder mystery but her books are hardly gory. The main problem would be (spoiler alert!!) that while it is narrated by the murderer, you don't know that until the end of the book (true Agatha Christie style), so it may not work for what you're looking for. I believe it is the only of her books like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Sorry. :001_unsure: I tried. no, no--it's a great suggestion for a book from the traditional villain's point of view. It's just that the book has a good bit of pretty graphic s*xual stuff in it. I haven't seen the musical, but I understand that it's very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morosophe Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 This may not count, but what came in my mind was The Murder of Rodger Ackroyd by Agatha Christie. It may be a murder mystery but her books are hardly gory. The main problem would be (spoiler alert!!) that while it is narrated by the murderer, you don't know that until the end of the book (true Agatha Christie style), so it may not work for what you're looking for. I believe it is the only of her books like that. See, that's why I didn't give the title of either one of hers that I was thinking of! (Well, plus, I can't remember one of the titles. :p) If you start out knowing the story is from the murderer's point of view, it actually ruins the way the text is supposed to work. Of course, that doesn't mean they don't have rereading potential, but it's like telling people about "Rosebud" in Citizen Kane. It doesn't really help this discussion much anyhow, because it's not like the narrator is presenting himself as the antagonist. I could make an argument that Julius Caesar's main character is Brutus, who is the person who works against the protagonist, Caesar, which is the definition of antagonist I'm more familiar with. Similarly, the movie The Fugitive spends equal amounts of time on Dr. Richard Kimble and the team of U. S. Marshalls led by Sam Gerard, who is his main antagonist, although definitely not the villain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I'm a bit foggy on this but I asked my boys and they said Frindle. They said that the main character (the boy) was the antagonist and his teacher was the protagonist. The teacher was pushing the action of order forward but the main character was inhibiting that action. That was in Decon Penguins I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelia Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Grendel is definitely not child-friendly. It's a high school honors/AP English book in these parts. Maybe Nurse Matilda? The kids are constantly trying not to move the action forward, but are forced to by Nurse Matilda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxing Hare Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 My ds read a biography on Billy the Kid (in children's section of library). I remember him saying that it was a good story, but he didn't like it because Billy the Kid was the bad guy who killed lawmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silliness7 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 From what I remember in DP there was some discusion about the definition of an antagonist. They at one point settled on "the person that resists the forward movement of the plot". The authors may have settled on a different definition of antagonist...."good vs evil". But if you stay with the first one I still feel that The Toothpaste Millionaire fits the bill. The boy did everything in his power to resist his own success. The teacher he loved to hate fought hard for him to be successful. The book in its simplist terms was about him working hard for success. If you stay with good vs evil then, no, I agree, it does not work. Frindle by Andrew Clements is the one where the antaonist is the slacker student who gets rich and famous by inventing a new name for a pen. He is also the main character. DP argues that the protagoist is the teacher trying to inspire this young man to embrace his education. The forward action was getting a good education something the teacher was moving forward but the student was pushing against. At least that's what I heard from DP. I've not actually read Frindle. :blush:Though my son has read it about 10 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Even though it's just a picture book, The True Story of the Three Little Pigs is a good suggestion. A lot of the suggestions (Wicked, Grendel, etc.) are good but clearly not age appropriate. My first thought was of the The Talented Mr. Ripley, also clearly not age appropriate. I found this collection of fairy tales on Amazon, but I haven't read it. But a possibility? And I recently read a review of a book from the POV of a bully, but I couldn't seem to find it. Maybe Blubber? Though not Judy Blume's best, in my opinion. WAIT! I've got it! Artemis Fowl!!! That's it. Totally from the point of view of the bad guy. And perfect 8 year old reading material. Though you should still totally do The True Story of the Three Little Pigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 You are so right. That is where I am confusing people. I have not read Frindle so I had forgotten the title. Thank you.....the op will appreciate not getting turned around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 The Grinch Who Stole Christmas Where the Wild Things Are Molesworth One can make an argument for Nathaniel in The Amulet of Samarkand; I'd certainly characterize him as an anti-hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeaganS Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 For a movie, Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog, although it does have some language. For a book for an adult, I would almost venture to say Gone With the Wind. Although Scarlet is technically the protagonist, you don't like her very much. Sorry, I guess neither of these are 8 year old friendly, although you might be able to watch the movie of Gone With the Wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingHope Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Maybe Daniel 4 will work for you with King Nebuchadnezzar explaining how he denied the Lord through his pride and was eventually humbled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Sticky Burr the Prickly Peril by John Lechner Has the antagonist (Scurvy Burr) as the main character and narrator. It is a graphic novel about burrs. There is another book starring Sticky Burr, the "good" burr, called "Sticky Burr Adventures in Burrwood Forest". Not exactly literature, but benign fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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