orchestr/band on transcript

[ValRN]

My ds not only takes music lessons, but he's also in a youth orchestra and in a community band. I am trying to figure out the best way to list these things on his transcript.

 

Should I list them as separate courses? Or should I list only the orchestra as a course and the band (because it's a community band) as community service?

 

My umbrella group would only let me list them as on course together (music). That's one reason why I'm leaving. I feel that he puts in many hours with each group, that he should be able to receive separate credit (or at least use the band hours as community service).

 

This year, my ds spent 112 hours in orchestra rehearsals and concerts (that does NOT include the 1.5 hour drive each way). In addition to that, he spent 5 days a week practicing.

 

The band is a little different because their season starts in January. He spends 1 hr 45 minutes a week in rehearsal and has 1-2, 2 hour concerts each month. He practices his band material 2-3 days per week.

 

I was thinking that if I counted them separately, I would give him 1 credit for orchestra and 1/2 credit for band.

 

I'm also thinking that maybe I should use the band for community service since he doesn't have much of that at this point.

 

Any comments/suggestions?

[ValRN]

Thanks for this information, Margaret. If you don't mind me asking, why do you give credit for lessons and practice? A child who attends school does not get credit for taking music lessons or for practice so I thought it would be best to not give credit for that.

 

What is considered "honors orchestra"? How are you able to justify that on a transcript? My son is in a very competitive youth orchestra and if I can count that as honors, I would like to.

 

For the past 2 years we've been under an umbrella that provides a transcript. I'm not rejoining so I will have the opportunity to revamp my son's transcript.

[ValRN]

Margaret, I'd really like to communicate with you about music, transcripts, college because you've traveled the road already and it seems as though you might have some very good advice. I will PM you.

[Jann in TX]

My dd played with the local high school band (she made All-State this year!).

She also played with a local community orchestra.

 

I have her 1 credit for band and then community service credits for orchestra.

 

HTH

 

She was accepted to college with no problems (extra band/music credits don't really make a difference on the transcript but the community service does!).

[Pamela H in Texas]

Another viewpoint:

 

I wouldn't cheapen it by giving it credit. If you want to have some credit for the lessons and related practice, that may be better; but there is no way I would cheapen the real value of an orchestra or band by giving school credit. There will be other parts of his college application to put those sorts of things, places where it will say a lot more about what it was and the real value of it.

 

JMO, YMMV,

[ValRN]

I see your point, Jann. I think that I will use the community band for community service. Congrats to your dd on making the state band. DS got a 1 at the district solo and ensemble festival and qualified to go to state. The school board wouldn't allow him to compete at the state level since he is home-educated. And...they said it in such a way that made me believe that if I made a stink of it, they wouldn't allow him to compete at the district level next year. We didn't make a stink.DS was very disappointed that he couldn't go to state.

 

Pamela H - I beg to differ that assigning credit for orchestra/band experience cheapens it. My son loves music and would participate in some group regardless of the fact that it had or didn't have credit. Why not give him fine arts and elective credits for it? It prevents him from having to do some other course (in which he may not have an interest) to fulfill those credits. DS spends his entire Saturdays riding to rehearsal, rehearsing, and riding home from rehearsal. He loves it, but (speaking from Mom who has 2 other children to teach and from ds who has 5-6 other subjects each year) it's gotta be worth something more than self-gratification.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't think she's saying not to include it in applications. The non homeschooled members will Include it, but as an extracurricular activity on top of a full school load.

 

I am not sure the is a right or wrong way. Depends on the other course work and college goals.

[flyingiguana]

If the admissions or music dept people are looking at the file quickly, and if you list band and orchestra on the transcript but not the activities list, they may miss that it was an honors orchestra/band. They know where to look for it with ps kids (on the activities) and may see orchestra or band on the transcript as just the regular high school or orchestra. (Or maybe "honors" high school orchestra, but not the orchestra your child was actually in. That's the sense in which giving credit might cheapen it.)

 

Also, if you put it on the activities list instead, you'll have more room to talk about it.

 

But if you put it on both the activities and the transcript, there's a chance someone might see that as padding. (Also, if the ps kids don't get the orchestra credit on their transcript, the college might look a bit askance at that. Also, this does tend to cheapen the experience, because it might start to look as if the student was only doing it because they had to for the credit, not because they loved it. I'm not sure a college would SAY that, and they might not even know they were thinking it, but that might color their view all the same.)

 

Our experience was that the smaller colleges do look at those activity lists rather carefully, so it's not really necessary to get it on the transcript for them to see it. The only place I'd want to be sure to get it on the transcript might be for a state university that has certain set requirements for getting in (and where they might not look at activities lists because they have thousands of files to look at). But if the student has some other arts class on the transcript, then the band or orchestra wouldn't need to be on there.

[Rhonda in TX]

For us, it will just depend on how the credits work out. Extra-curriculars are important for college applications as well. My kids take private lessons, practice, and are in an area youth orchestra (audition required). The orchestra rehearses 2.5 hours once a week. (longer once they move up levels)

 

Tentatively, I plan on giving 4 credits for orchestra (one a year). If they participate in community orchestras (very possible) when they are a bit older, I will count that as extra-curricular. I wasn't aware that it could count as community service. Can someone explain that to me?

[In The Great White North]

The non homeschooled members will Include it, but as an extracurricular activity on top of a full school load.

I did list it as an extracurricular, however, around here, band and orchestra are for credit classes, that get a grade and appear as a credit on the high school diploma.

 

That's what my high school did too, back in the dark ages.

 

I don't really think it matters where you put it, as long as it is there somewhere. Schools often take "non-academic" classes off the transcript and recompute the GPA without them anyway. Schools that require a "fine art" will see it whether it's listed as a class or an extracurricular.

 

BTW, all our extracurriculars take much more time than our regular classes.

[ValRN]

OK, Sebastian, I understand now. Thanks for clearing that up. Could you count the same band as an extracurricular activity AND community service? This is my first high school kid, so I'm still learning about listing things on the transcript.

 

It's all so nitpicky. It's making me doubt my decision to leave my umbrella group.

[ValRN]

:willy_nilly: My head is spinning with all these considerations.

 

Thank you to everyone for bringing up all these things. It's something I really have to think about. And I guess I should also consider the college that my son wants to attend. I know what! My son's trumpet teacher sits on the admissions board of one of the colleges my son is considering . I'll ask him his opinion on how it should be listed. I'll let you know what he says.

[flyingiguana]

Tentatively, I plan on giving 4 credits for orchestra (one a year). If they participate in community orchestras (very possible) when they are a bit older, I will count that as extra-curricular. I wasn't aware that it could count as community service. Can someone explain that to me?

 

It's community service if the organization is providing concerts to the public. Some bands and orchestras may do other outreach type things as well, maybe joining together with school groups to play with the kids and such. The band I'm in plays at basketball games as a pep band for the school where we rehearse (because the school doesn't have its own band).

 

We weren't all that careful about breaking up extracurricular activities and community service when we were working on college applications for my daughter. I don't think the colleges cared too much one way or another. They're used to getting transcripts and lists of activities in every way imaginable. They've learned to adapt. (In the files I've looked at of kids applying to the college where I work, I don't think I've ever seen anything done the same way twice.)

[angela in ohio]

I'm assuming she is taking private lessons to be in the youth symphony. I am counting the lessons and daily practice time as a band credit. That is comparable to a school band credit.

 

I am listing her youth symphony, etc. as extracurricular activities.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I'm assuming she is taking private lessons to be in the youth symphony. I am counting the lessons and daily practice time as a band credit. That is comparable to a school band credit.

 

I am listing her youth symphony, etc. as extracurricular activities.

 

This is more what I meant but obviously didn't write well.

 

The activities we did were much more involved than doing similar activities in school. We did give school credit for certain parts of things so as not to have a whole separate class. For example, we were very involved in a sport which was a couple hours 4-6 days per week EVERY week, year round. Add practice and competition time to that also. And my kids did extra competitions we traveled for and such also. It would have, imo, cheapened it, to compare it to a general PE class or seasonal sport. However, to add, on top of that, another PE, would have been nuts also unless they really wanted to do so. I had no issue counting an hour a day of their practice as P.E. while a college could easily see based on other parts of the college application that they were dedicated to the sport, excelled in it, gained leadership opportunities within it, had a passion for it.

 

I hope that helps clarify what I meant a little.

[Matryoshka]

I don't think she's saying not to include it in applications. The non homeschooled members will Include it, but as an extracurricular activity on top of a full school load.

 

Actually, at our local high school band, chorus, or orchestra are all instead of another elective, and you get a full credit for it. They are not considered extracurricular. I've been pondering sending my kids there, so I've been looking into how things are set up. I was really surprised, but it's an elective (that would prevent them taking another elective like art or computers), not an extracurricular activity.

 

One of my dds would love to participate in both orchestra and chorus, and take art - I don't even think that's possible (at least not in the same year).

[Julie in MN]

I give credit for music as we consider it part of our schoolwork. If my children were taking band and lessons at the high school (they don't offer orchestra) they would be receiving credit for it.

But she was asking about including practice and private lessons -- those don't actually count towards a high school credit.

 

My dd was in high school band and it did include:

- daily playing with the band, following the conductor, usual band skills (about 172 days in our district)

- several evening performances are required

- after-school competitions between band members and all-states and such

- one summer of practice and performance in marching band (practice all of June and perform at the July 4th parade)

- coming to class prepared (i.e. often daily practice at home and often private lessons)

 

Actually, at our local high school band, chorus, or orchestra are all instead of another elective, and you get a full credit for it. They are not considered extracurricular. I've been pondering sending my kids there, so I've been looking into how things are set up. I was really surprised, but it's an elective (that would prevent them taking another elective like art or computers), not an extracurricular activity.

 

One of my dds would love to participate in both orchestra and chorus, and take art - I don't even think that's possible (at least not in the same year).

Again, you get full credit but the "homework" is just an expected extra.

 

Kids in our area who want to be in band + choir take a "zero hour" class so they can do a foreign language or other elective.

[Matryoshka]

Kids in our area who want to be in band + choir take a "zero hour" class so they can do a foreign language or other elective.

 

How does that work? I'm having trouble figuring out the logistics - they still can't be in two places at the same time?

[Julie in MN]

How does that work? I'm having trouble figuring out the logistics - they still can't be in two places at the same time?

The schools have an extra hour in the morning for these kids. Not all teachers offer classes during that hour, but some do. So, at one high school near us, zero hour is at 7:30 a.m. I think you must provide your own transport, and the rest of the kids arrive for 8:30 classes. So kids who want to take 7 credits will start an hour earlier and fit in 7 classes during the day (often because they want to take band, choir, and foreign language or another elective during the regular 6 hour day).

 

It looks like these are the courses offered during zero hour at that particular high school right now:

 

Zero Hour Health

Zero Hour Lifelong Rec Sports and Fitness

Zero Hour Chemistry

Zero Hour AP US History

Zero Hour AP European History

Zero Hour Varsity Choir (note that regular choir, band, and symphony are during the regular day, because not all those kids want to take a zero hour)

 

HTH, Julie

Julie

[Matryoshka]

The schools have an extra hour in the morning for these kids. Not all teachers offer classes during that hour, but some do. So, at one high school near us, zero hour is at 7:30 a.m. I think you must provide your own transport, and the rest of the kids arrive for 8:30 classes. So kids who want to take 7 credits will start an hour earlier and fit in 7 classes during the day (often because they want to take band, choir, and foreign language or another elective during the regular 6 hour day).

 

It looks like these are the courses offered during zero hour at that particular high school right now:

 

Zero Hour Health

Zero Hour Lifelong Rec Sports and Fitness

Zero Hour Chemistry

Zero Hour AP US History

Zero Hour AP European History

Zero Hour Varsity Choir (note that regular choir, band, and symphony are during the regular day, because not all those kids want to take a zero hour)

 

 

Ah, that's very interesting. The school here starts for everyone at 7:30. There are 7 classes, but only 6 meet on any day, so maybe that's how they try to squeeze that in? But Freshman year there are enough required classes that there's still only room for one elective.

 

I'm noticing that everyone else seems to get 1 credit per course - here it's 5 credits for a full year, and 2.5 for a half year. Must be regional?

[Julie in MN]

But Freshman year there are enough required classes that there's still only room for one elective.

Well, you'll just have to ask over at that particular school. I highly doubt they would not allow a student to take both, but I suppose it is possible.

 

Julie