a little fun: do you use pictures on your tool bar for the WTM forum?

[johnandtinagilbert]

I have the hive for K-8; a finger with a "reminder tie" around the pointer for high school b/c I don't want to forget the wisdom there; and the judge hammer for middle school b/c that's when we have to drop the hammer and be ready for high school!

 

How about you?

[_melody_]

Reported.

[PeterPan]

Reported.

 

Huh?? LOL I don't have a clue what Tina's talking about, but she's not a spammer, lol. Maybe she's on a pc and can put pictures as avatars for her toolbar? Beats me. My mac surfs so fast, I don't have time to put pics up for anything. But you know, it would be a really good screensaver or timer or something, a HAMMER coming in, shattering the glass, and telling us all to get back to work. :)

[PeterPan]

...and the judge hammer for middle school b/c that's when we have to drop the hammer and be ready for high school!

 

 

Ok, now let's talk about this! Is this TRUE? I mean seriously. I've read posts by LoriD where she said she wished she HADN'T turned junior high into high school. Is there a sense in which they're cramming more and more into junior high, turning junior high into a pre-high school, identical rat race, that doesn't developmentally fit many kids???

 

I don't know, this is something I was chatting about privately with someone. I just wonder why it is that we have mom after mom saying the kids in 7th and 8th gr are usually in this growth spurt fog, but we feel COMPELLED and guilt-tripped to up the ante, up the ante, up the ante, to get ready for high school. And even more ironically, it seems like many of those kids, whom the parents felt really badly about in junior high, suddenly blossomed in 9th or 10th, fog of the junior years notwithstanding...

 

In other words, is Tina right? Should we all be hammering our kids starting in 7th? Some of the curriculum (BJU for instance) makes a huge leap between 6th and 7th and seems to imply this. Or is there really a disconnect? Is it a trickling down of the rat race? Are our efforts to beat against the wall really futile, silly, and leading us painfully to places would would have gotten ANYWAY, if we had only been a bit more patient and gentle?

 

How about q-tip education? How about junior high as a time to go in gently and clean out the crud, allowing them to start hearing us? :)

 

And for the record, I have no issue with brainy whizzes who want to do calculus in 6th. Have right at it. I'm just asking whether we need to feel compelled to turn junior high into something more akin to high school and high school into college, or whether it's going against their development. So VP says we should (literally). If that's so, if we posit that HISTORICALLY, college what we now call high school years, then what was going on historically during what we now call junior high?? What historically was happening with kids when they were 12 and 13? That would be interesting to know. (And not being a history person, I can't tell you, lol.) The rat race people kind of assume it's all linear, that the kids were clearly doing what we now call high school in junior high. But is that true?? Or were they doing more developmentally appropriate things out in the world (hands-on apprenticeships, etc.), being allowed to mature, and then come (what we now call) high school age, they LEAPED?

[elegantlion]

There may have been spam under Tina's post, that's how some of these older threads get bumped. FYI: I just have the hive picture on my tool bar.

 

I'm going with the Q-tip model for middle school, Elizabeth. This year has felt like organizing the file cabinet of my son's brain. Next year will probably be more so. I've prefaced many comments with "when you start high school..."

 

He's been getting high school level input in a couple of subjects, but I haven't required, nor is he ready, for high school level output.

 

Have you ever tried to get little wiggly kids to line up? That's what this year has been like. All the little kids are different things I want in place before that daunting word HIGH SCHOOL. Every time I reach the end of the line, I turn around and they're all out of alignment. One sitting on the floor playing with their shoelaces, two are fighting, one has run to the bathroom, and one is standing at the head of the line oblivious to what is going on behind him. The ones I thought would be easy to teach how to stand straight in line are off in another dimension, the one I thought would be the terror of the year has turned into the perfect student. School would be easy if my son's "little people" (Wait - Fisher price flashback :001_huh:) would just do what I say, when I say.

 

Middle school is the perfect time to teach them how to queue properly. :lol:Then we'll worry about high school level.

[JudoMom]

Huh?? LOL I don't have a clue what Tina's talking about, but she's not a spammer, lol. Maybe she's on a pc and can put pictures as avatars for her toolbar? Beats me. My mac surfs so fast, I don't have time to put pics up for anything. But you know, it would be a really good screensaver or timer or something, a HAMMER coming in, shattering the glass, and telling us all to get back to work. :)

 

I assumed there was a legit Spam above the reported post that the mods removed.

 

But I'm on a PC and I have no clue what Tina's talking about, either.

[happygrrl]

I want a picture! How does one get a picture on one's toolbar?

Seriously, I am home with a sick dd and would love nothing better than to play with hive pictures while I drink coffee!

[8filltheheart]

Ok, now let's talk about this! Is this TRUE? I mean seriously. I've read posts by LoriD where she said she wished she HADN'T turned junior high into high school. Is there a sense in which they're cramming more and more into junior high, turning junior high into a pre-high school, identical rat race, that doesn't developmentally fit many kids???

 

I don't know, this is something I was chatting about privately with someone. I just wonder why it is that we have mom after mom saying the kids in 7th and 8th gr are usually in this growth spurt fog, but we feel COMPELLED and guilt-tripped to up the ante, up the ante, up the ante, to get ready for high school. And even more ironically, it seems like many of those kids, whom the parents felt really badly about in junior high, suddenly blossomed in 9th or 10th, fog of the junior years notwithstanding...

 

In other words, is Tina right? Should we all be hammering our kids starting in 7th? Some of the curriculum (BJU for instance) makes a huge leap between 6th and 7th and seems to imply this. Or is there really a disconnect? Is it a trickling down of the rat race? Are our efforts to beat against the wall really futile, silly, and leading us painfully to places would would have gotten ANYWAY, if we had only been a bit more patient and gentle?

 

How about q-tip education? How about junior high as a time to go in gently and clean out the crud, allowing them to start hearing us? :)

 

And for the record, I have no issue with brainy whizzes who want to do calculus in 6th. Have right at it. I'm just asking whether we need to feel compelled to turn junior high into something more akin to high school and high school into college, or whether it's going against their development. So VP says we should (literally). If that's so, if we posit that HISTORICALLY, college what we now call high school years, then what was going on historically during what we now call junior high?? What historically was happening with kids when they were 12 and 13? That would be interesting to know. (And not being a history person, I can't tell you, lol.) The rat race people kind of assume it's all linear, that the kids were clearly doing what we now call high school in junior high. But is that true?? Or were they doing more developmentally appropriate things out in the world (hands-on apprenticeships, etc.), being allowed to mature, and then come (what we now call) high school age, they LEAPED?

 

I have had kids all over the place academically in middle school. That said, I have never had a single one in any sort of brain fog in middle school either. Even my highly emotional Aspie that was out of control from ages 12-17 was never in a mental fog. So, that part I can't address.

 

I am a firm believer in having kids progress at their ability level, whatever that may be. Since I don't use pre-packaged curriculum and avoid textbooks for the most part (with the major exception of math), I can't evaluate your comment about textbooks and their advancing inappropriately. I would not be willing to accept that assessment lightly. What may be inappropriate for certain students, may be appropriate for the the greater %.

 

I have witnessed repeatedly a misguided view of what is age level appropriate as students get older. Knowing what skills should be typically mastered by a certain grade is advantageous even if your particular child doesn't fit into the general mold......whether they are ahead or behind avg. For example, having reached high school w/o ever having been taught how to write research papers and essays if the student is not LD is a serious disadvantage for the avg student. Middle school should be the time to shore up writing skills so that high school is focused on argumentation/rhetoric and not the writing process itself.

 

So, while I agree that it depends on the student, I also believe that parents need to know where students are excelling, struggling, on par across subject matter.

[Barb_]

 

Should we all be hammering our kids starting in 7th?

 

No.

 

Is it a trickling down of the rat race? Are our efforts to beat against the wall really futile, silly, and leading us painfully to places would would have gotten ANYWAY, if we had only been a bit more patient and gentle?

 

Yes.

 

How about q-tip education? How about junior high as a time to go in gently and clean out the crud, allowing them to start hearing us? :)

 

 

 

:lol:

 

My first one panicked me at 12-14 -ish. She did little but read for two years. She was excellent at giving me lip service and pretending to do what she was supposed to do and then just not doing it. I had many younger children so she slipped through the cracks. Then I'd catch her at it, read her the riot act, and then watch her like a hawk for a few weeks. WRR (wash, rinse, repeat). Then it was like she got a brain transplant at 14. She took off and hasn't looked back.

 

My second one got slightly foggy, but she is the easy one. She's a natural academic and seemed to work harder, but the funny thing is, she and Meghan wound up with the exact PSAT score Junior year. Meghan scored higher in critical reading (big surprise, LOL) and Jenna in Math, but their selection indexes were identical

 

Emily's brain seemed to run out her ear at 13. I didn't worry nearly as much as I did the first time :D We focused on organizational skills, routines, time management, etc. As long as she was reading, doing art or chores or babysitting in her considerable free time I didn't worry (too much). I'm happy to report her brain seems to be growing back this year.

 

Barb

[johnandtinagilbert]

Huh?? LOL I don't have a clue what Tina's talking about, but she's not a spammer, lol. Maybe she's on a pc and can put pictures as avatars for her toolbar? Beats me. My mac surfs so fast, I don't have time to put pics up for anything. But you know, it would be a really good screensaver or timer or something, a HAMMER coming in, shattering the glass, and telling us all to get back to work. :)

That's it E :) It was really me!

 

Ok, now let's talk about this! Is this TRUE? I mean seriously. I've read posts by LoriD where she said she wished she HADN'T turned junior high into high school. Is there a sense in which they're cramming more and more into junior high, turning junior high into a pre-high school, identical rat race, that doesn't developmentally fit many kids??? Not a "turn into high school" (BTDT, unfortunately), but I meant drop the hammer to correct anything dawdling from grammar school...before we get to high school!

 

I don't know, this is something I was chatting about privately with someone. I just wonder why it is that we have mom after mom saying the kids in 7th and 8th gr are usually in this growth spurt fog, but we feel COMPELLED and guilt-tripped to up the ante, up the ante, up the ante, to get ready for high school. And even more ironically, it seems like many of those kids, whom the parents felt really badly about in junior high, suddenly blossomed in 9th or 10th, fog of the junior years notwithstanding...Exactly right. My first son did blossom. It def. has changed my approach a little with the others...gentle still, but perhaps a bit more firm and surely more "serious." Of courswe, as I get better at this, there's less and less to drop the hammer about with the Little League.

 

In other words, is Tina right? Should we all be hammering our kids starting in 7th? Some of the curriculum (BJU for instance) makes a huge leap between 6th and 7th and seems to imply this. Or is there really a disconnect? Is it a trickling down of the rat race? Are our efforts to beat against the wall really futile, silly, and leading us painfully to places would would have gotten ANYWAY, if we had only been a bit more patient and gentle?

 

How about q-tip education? How about junior high as a time to go in gently and clean out the crud, allowing them to start hearing us? :) I can't say much about a q-tip edu., but I will say, it's an important time to enjoy your dc in a new light. They start becoming *themselves* more than just indoctrinated selves we've brought up. It's a wonderful shift to see your children really take possession of their lives (faith and more); only when they start in one spot, you may be ready for the rest to fully follow and it takes a bit of time to roll out. It was an interesting first and second try for me. I finally feel like I get this whole middle schooler/puberty thing on round 3, but sometimes.....:001_huh: still refers to this momma!

 

And for the record, I have no issue with brainy whizzes who want to do calculus in 6th. Have right at it. I'm just asking whether we need to feel compelled to turn junior high into something more akin to high school and high school into college, or whether it's going against their development. I think the conundrum is so far as academic ability many Are ready to move forward, but since maturity and puberty aren't playing along, I found it wasn't worth the frustration or effort, so allow forward motion in strengths, but work on time management and character issues like procrastination, laziness, incomplete work, etc. makes more sense. Don't fret the afternoon nap, encourage it. Allow later bedtimes and later rising, just keep the workload. Nap does not have to equal less work, just work at different times. So VP says we should (literally). If that's so, if we posit that HISTORICALLY, college what we now call high school years, then what was going on historically during what we now call junior high?? What historically was happening with kids when they were 12 and 13? That would be interesting to know. (And not being a history person, I can't tell you, lol.) The rat race people kind of assume it's all linear, that the kids were clearly doing what we now call high school in junior high. But is that true?? Or were they doing more developmentally appropriate things out in the world (hands-on apprenticeships, etc.), being allowed to mature, and then come (what we now call) high school age, they LEAPED?

The world was a different place. Children were Much more mature. Once a girl could take care of a home and began mensus, she could be married. My 12yo has the skill to take care of a family, so I can see if she had a wise husband, she could move on out at this point :svengo:

 

Young men were weapon handling and treated like men. There was simply no such thing as a teenager. At this point, they were either uber wealthy so going off to university was expected OR they were sponsored b/c they were clearly super intelligent.

 

The show, 2 Million Minutes, at least does a good job to show what high schoolers can accomplish much more than most Americans expect (not that I think it needs to be so hard core, just showing the point of comparison).

 

To sum it up, I think our Jr. High/Middle School is now one that is a bit more serious in study, but is also a place to develop the next level of trust (blind trust when they're little, intentional trust now) and when they trust me, they're willing to wade forward and swim in deeper academic waters.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I want a picture! How does one get a picture on one's toolbar?

Seriously, I am home with a sick dd and would love nothing better than to play with hive pictures while I drink coffee!

I have the Swagbucks and the Yahoo toolbars on my viewing screen. They allow for avatars. We use them as shortcuts for the sites we frequent (WTM, Quizlet, Spelling City, MUS drills, YouTube, etc).

 

My first one panicked me at 12-14 -ish. She did little but read for two years. She was excellent at giving me lip service and pretending to do what she was supposed to do and then just not doing it. I had many younger children so she slipped through the cracks. Then I'd catch her at it, read her the riot act, and then watch her like a hawk for a few weeks. WRR (wash, rinse, repeat). Then it was like she got a brain transplant at 14. She took off and hasn't looked back.

 

My second one got slightly foggy, but she is the easy one. She's a natural academic and seemed to work harder, but the funny thing is, she and Meghan wound up with the exact PSAT score Junior year. Meghan scored higher in critical reading (big surprise, LOL) and Jenna in Math, but their selection indexes were identical

 

Emily's brain seemed to run out her ear at 13. I didn't worry nearly as much as I did the first time :D We focused on organizational skills, routines, time management, etc. As long as she was reading, doing art or chores or babysitting in her considerable free time I didn't worry (too much). I'm happy to report her brain seems to be growing back this year.

 

Barb

Yeah...what she said :) only insert "he" for the 1st and 3rd!

 

Honestly, ladies, I was a disaster from about the middle of 7th grade (for the eldest) until this past January. My son was no longer my sweet boy! He was an emotional roller coaster, no longer cared to finish work on time to please Momma, and so what did I do? Push harder! OOPS! That backfired! So, we lightened up. We got exactly the same work finished as planned, just a little later in the year, but certainly with much happier attitudes. Funny, but the same one is heading to CC next spring and I'm certain he'll be ready!

 

#1 daughter (#2 in puberty) just grew out of it and continued to excel in school. She was unusually mouthy for about 3 months, but otherwise an easy child.

 

#2 son is still working out his "angry" puberty, but I do see some light at the end of the tunnel. I let this one sleep and read as often as he likes, within a day where school work gets finished.

 

It's hits them all differently for sure, but I have a strategy...continue to meet their needs. Those needs are still not the same! Funny, but home schooling is still the same in that regard! Seems to me that Logic stage is more Personal Training than academic. So, to summarize, I say: score up the academics and begin the transition to deeper thinking and heavier workloads...but Work Up to it, don't drop the bomb!

[Capt_Uhura]

I'm glad I opened up this thread!!!! Thanks for the discussion!

[TracyP]

I'm glad I opened up this thread!!!! Thanks for the discussion!

:iagree: So funny how you don't know where a thread will go sometimes!

[Capt_Uhura]

:iagree: So funny how you don't know where a thread will go sometimes!

 

I know! I've been wondering it was about and finally had a second to take a peek.

[PeterPan]

Tina, that was profoundly helpful. Thank you. :)

[Rhonda in TX]

My first one panicked me at 12-14 -ish. She did little but read for two years. She was excellent at giving me lip service and pretending to do what she was supposed to do and then just not doing it. I had many younger children so she slipped through the cracks. Then I'd catch her at it, read her the riot act, and then watch her like a hawk for a few weeks. WRR (wash, rinse, repeat). Then it was like she got a brain transplant at 14. She took off and hasn't looked back.

 

My second one got slightly foggy, but she is the easy one. She's a natural academic and seemed to work harder, but the funny thing is, she and Meghan wound up with the exact PSAT score Junior year. Meghan scored higher in critical reading (big surprise, LOL) and Jenna in Math, but their selection indexes were identical

 

Emily's brain seemed to run out her ear at 13. I didn't worry nearly as much as I did the first time :D We focused on organizational skills, routines, time management, etc. As long as she was reading, doing art or chores or babysitting in her considerable free time I didn't worry (too much). I'm happy to report her brain seems to be growing back this year.

 

Barb

 

I was like this. I skated through middle school. I don't remember what my grades were like, but I got lots and lots of zeros on homework. I hit high school and it was like a switch was flipped. I was responsible and studious. I graduated near the top of my class.

 

My DS has been in a serious brain fog the past couple of years. I see signs that it is ending, but I'm not relaxing about it yet. DH says that he can remember the fog, and that it will end eventually. My DD, on the other hand, has really matured the past year and doesn't seem to be experiencing any type of brain fog.