Question RE Homeschoolers' Acceptance Rate to Top-Tier Schools

[Guest lholmlund]

I am somewhat discouraged. We have homeschooled our four children from the start, and our oldest is a senior in high school. She is very academic, tests well, has strong extra-curricular activities, volunteers regularly, and has worked part-time at the local vet hospital since she was 13. She is a National Merit Finalist for 2011. She applied to 15 colleges (casting the net broadly in hopes of scholarships). She has gotten in to the majority of the schools and has full-ride+ options at two schools (for which we are extremely grateful).

Herein lies the source of my disappointment: even though her SAT scores were at--and for the most part above--the average SAT midlines for the higher profile schools, she has been turned down by those schools—MIT and USC (so far) and is wait-listed for Bowdoin. We still haven’t heard from Williams and Stanford.

I’ve done some checking on-line, and have read that it is now actually harder for a homeschooled student to get into a top-tier school. People are saying that homeschooling can work to the advantage of a non-traditional student, but for a traditional student, homeschooling puts them at a disadvantage.

As a homeschooling mom I have always thought that top-tier schools valued homeschool students and even sought them out. That has not been our experience. I hate to think that by homeschooling my children I am putting them at a disadvantage to get into these schools.

Any thoughts or experiences to share?

[Gwen in VA]

People are saying that homeschooling can work to the advantage of a non-traditional student, but for a traditional student, homeschooling puts them at a disadvantage.

 

I am intrigued by this statement. In what sense can a homeschooler be "traditional" or "untraditional"?

[tearose]

I think that it is just SO competitive at the top tier schools that it's unpredictable given the huge numbers of qualified applicants. In the NPR story I posted about earlier today, the admissions dean at Amherst admits that decisions can be random when students are so closely matched (the college had a few too many in their yes pile and had to go back and pull some out before they could send out acceptances). The story also showed how really minor things, like a sentence in an essay, could sometimes sway admissions officials either way. Unfortunately, there are so many students who are national merit scholars, have high test scores and the like that it can come down to intangibles.

[Guest lholmlund]

My impression of the use of "traditional" was in reference to homeschool students who are very similar to group schooled kids in the subjects taught, extra-curricular activities attended, etc. vs. a "non-traditional" homeschooled student that, for example, might travel around the world on a houseboat or learn in a way other than books? Or possibly it could also include students who have some extraordinary skill in a sport or instrument...something that makes them stand out in a non-academic capacity.

[Guest lholmlund]

What I was reading on-line showed people giving statistics that showed a lower acceptance rate for homeschooled students at these high-tier schools... One comment was that the acceptance rate for homeschooled students at Amherst a couple years ago was 7%. The overall rate for Amherst in 2010 was 16%.

 

Ironically, my brother-in-law, who went to Amherst and has two homeschooled kids in college, thought my daughter would get into the higher profile schools.

 

I realize that these schools are very competitive and it can come down to intangibles. I was just surprised by the experiences of people in addition to myself that address the possibility of a pattern.

[Starr]

Friends working in the university world say it also just depends on the applicants that year. There is no way to be sure to get into any of the schools that are accepting such a low percentage of applicants.

[creekland]

Having read through many of the threads on college confidential and seeing the threads of those rejected or waitlisted, I'm not convinced there's a difference.

 

That said, I think one of the "pluses" to homeschooling is being able to have some sort of non-traditional extra curricular on the application, so there could be something to it. If you have a pile of applicants all of whom are qualified with essentially the same stats, which one would you pick? They want diversity.

 

I think one needs high stats AND extra curriculars that stand out whether one is in ps or homeschooled.

[Gwen in VA]

It's difficult to generalize about homeschoolers. We are all so different!

 

All we can do is to work our best to help our kids unfold and to help them develop their potential.

 

Ultimately, if we do that, what college accepts or rejects them doesn't matter.

[Jane in NC]

What I was reading on-line showed people giving statistics that showed a lower acceptance rate for homeschooled students at these high-tier schools... One comment was that the acceptance rate for homeschooled students at Amherst a couple years ago was 7%. The overall rate for Amherst in 2010 was 16%.

 

Ironically, my brother-in-law, who went to Amherst and has two homeschooled kids in college, thought my daughter would get into the higher profile schools.

 

I realize that these schools are very competitive and it can come down to intangibles. I was just surprised by the experiences of people in addition to myself that address the possibility of a pattern.

 

Consider this: Homeschooling was a growth movement for many years. If the total number of homeschoolers were to increase, the acceptance rate could fall, but the total number of homeschoolers being accepted could still be on the rise.

 

Frankly, I will question all statistics on the issue since homeschoolers have formed small and hence statistically unreliable populations. Further, some homeschools may have been reported as private schools in the past when homeschooling was less well known.

 

One of the things about homeschool stats is that they are often anecdotal. I do not know if there has been a solid study of homeschool acceptance rates. Further, since everyone's definition of "tier" and "top" seems to vary, it would be hard to interpret the numbers.

[Muttichen]

My daughter, who is at Harvard, met the admissions counselor who read her application. He told her that being homeschooled helped her get in -- they actually have a quota for homeschoolers and take something like 13 a year.

 

We heard that eighty percent of the applicants to Harvard look the same on paper. With so many qualified kids, the admissions people are trying to put together an interesting group of students. Homeschooling makes us diverse!

[FaithManor]

I think it's a matter of standing out in a unique way. The competition is absolutely fierce and there are far more homeschoolers than there used to be. So, homeschooling itself, is not unique and one needs to do more to make the student stand out.

 

Volunteerism in unusual programs, travel experiences, awards and citations from outside sources such as winning science fairs, competitive rocketry, robotics teams, unusual music groups - one is more likely to get points for being in an accapella barbershop quartet or in a jazz combo than community or school choir - unusual modern languages instead of the traditional Spanish (not that there is anything wrong with that - but again - when applicants all look similar on paper - the one that took three years of Mandarin, Danish, or Russian, looks more interesting than Spanish), involvement in politics (working as a page in the state legislature, participating in student days at the capitol), etc.

 

Unique, unique...sports, piano, violin...yeah it's all great. But here's the deal, everyone is doing that. Piano and violin are wonderful but the kid that is accomplished on the Harp is going to stand out ahead of the literal pack of students who leave for college as accomplished pianists. In my day, a truly accomplished musician at the high school level was not all that common and the best of them went to conservatory or top tier LAC's (me). That left lots and lots of colleges excited to see the girl that accompanied the school choir and sight read well, vying for that student and even offering music scholarship money when the student wasn't going to major in music. Times have changed. Lots of kids have had great piano teachers, great violin teachers, and great sports coaches. It's common place. Again, not trying to discourage anyone - my kids study piano here because I'm a pianist - just saying that there is more competition for fewer spots and a plethora of transcripts that all look the same. This is a product of the one size fits all public school system. Everyone has done the same things, studied the same things, etc.

 

So, I highly recommend looking at electives and extra-curriculars and going against the grain. Our local high school offers very, very few electives so everyone takes pretty much, the same thing. Ds, on the other hand, will have practical drafting (hasn't been taught in most public schools since 1979), two years of art history (not offered in any public school in a five county area surrounding us), Introduction to Geology (MIT) in addition to biology, chemistry (with MIT kitchen chemistry), advanced biology, and astronomy (again, a science class not offered), three years of Visual Basic Programming and one year of Dot.Net programming, Video Game Design (MIT), Civil War Studies as a history elective (MIT), Latin, German, and The Art of Color (MIT). His transcript will be very unique.

 

Additionally, he will have his 4-H awards, plus a European travel experience (Germany and Denmark), National 4-H Youth Council - where youth work with national leaders to determine some of the future projects for 4-H nationally - working for three weeks of a congressional session as a page for our district's representative on the state level, tutoring underprivileged children through a local community center, and working at an orphange in Uganda on a mission trip lead by our youth pastor. Hopefully these things will help him stand out against the plethora of qualified candidates who have great scores, great grades, etc. but aren't necessarily unique.

 

Dd's one thing that stood out more than others, and she had quite a few unique experiences such as earning "The Right Stuff Award" at Space Camp, was the month she spent on a reservation cataloging and reorganizing a school library for children with learning disabilities. Her aunt was teaching there and she invited dd to spend the last month of the school year with her working in her 4th grade classroom but mostly working in the library because the school didn't have a librarian; the poor teachers were overworked and didn't have time. That one thing, that just really brought the "twinkle" to the eye of admission's personnel and faculty.

 

I think that "80% of qualified kids applying to Harvard all look the same" is probably pretty accurate and unfortunately, a lot of homeschooled kids also "look" the same even if they are so different in their passions and abilities.

 

Unfortunately, it can cost a lot of money to provide these opportunities to our kids...sometimes money that we don't know how we will ever come up with, or money that could go to the college fund. That makes it pretty difficult. But, there are still a lot of unusual experiences our kids can get without too much cost, such as the tutoring or volunteering at a soup kitchen, etc. without having to drop buckets of money.

 

Faith

 

Faith

[TravelingChris]

My d only applied to one school with low acceptances (less than 10%, I believe). In that case, the school wasn't a match for her and it probably was evident in her essays. Her goals and values were not aligned with the schools.

The two other schools she applied to where she either did not get in or was waitlisted were schools where she was well matched (near the top 75% or at that for test score, excellent GPA, at least one excellent recommendation, very solid essay, good extracurriculars and awards). What happened with those schools? The main thing I think that hurt her was where we are stationed right now. I think the schools grouped kids according to area and while her stats were right in line for the college, they were probably lower than the other applicants in this area. Also, with the only school where she was rejected and really should not have been, I think there was maybe discrimination going on since they were the only ones who knew she has disability.

 

That said, she got into seven colleges and universities and is currently deciding between three.

[memphispeg]

We started homeschooling this year, the dd's last 2 yrs. of high school. I am not sure about hsing effects on the the upcoming college admissions process but, I do know that my dd is happier and more engaged than when she was in ps. I do not think she would get into college as an unhappy kid. We shall see. Homeschooled kids around here who are smart have done well. They tend to be more mature and focussed.

My eldest was accepted to the top tiered schools. She went to ps and was Natl. Merit and had a passion. She did not have lots of extra curricular activities. I just made sure she "kept it real" during high school and did things that she liked, not just to build a resume. She is happy where she is, taking loads of classes and double-majoring in Philosophy and Art History. Kids who were much "smarter" than her on paper with stunning resumes have dropped out or never made it much past the 1st semester.

I hope your dd finds someplace where she will be happy.

[memphispeg]

Eliana;

I think the moral of your story is that each student has their own Top-tier. College stuff is much like car or house shopping. You apply for those with the best fit. They are hard to find....sometimes you have to dig deep to discover the "fatal flaw" or the "hidden jewel". We are going thru this the 2nd time here. This dd is, of course, completely different from the 1st so, there are whole new types of schools to explore.

[Janice H]

Just a thought if some of the schools have more females than men.

[Laura in CA]

Very interesting thread topic ... I was just wondering the exact same thing. My (homeschooled) son was invited to participate in the evening prep sessions at the local high school for the AP Calculus exam that's coming up. Well, two weeks ago we found out that one girl was accepted at MIT, and then last night we heard another girl just found out she was accepted at Stanford. Obviously we're happy for their success (and the teacher was very proud), and they've worked hard for it, but then I look at some of the homeschooled kids we know who are ... treading water. Still living at home, at age 18 or 19, and talking about doing CLEPs or starting at the local community college ... and these are kids whose parents have advanced degrees in math or science (sorry, I can't use that acronym "STEM"), so I would have thought their kids would be on a similar path. Do kids in ps have so many more resources and opportunities that we don't? The local high school (I am an alumna) is frankly pretty mediocre, but even so, do they just have more access to AP classes, science club, etc. and does that make a difference? One homeschooled kid in our large homeschool circle was just accepted at Harvard, but he's truly in a class by himself, so he's not representative ...

Edited April 1, 2011 by Laura in CA
typo!

[at the beach]

Very interesting thread topic ... I was just wondering the exact same thing. My (homeschooled) son was invited to participate in the evening prep sessions at the local high school for the AP Calculus exam that's coming up. Well, two weeks ago we found out that one girl was accepted at MIT, and then last night we heard another girl just found out she was accepted at Stanford. Obviously we're happy for their success (and the teacher was very proud), and they've worked hard for it, but then I look at some of the homeschooled kids we know who are ... treading water. Still living at home, at age 18 or 19, and talking about doing CLEPs or starting at the local community college ... and these are kids whose parents have advanced degrees in math or science (sorry, I can't use that acronym "STEM"), so I would have thought their kids would be on a similar path. Do kids in ps have so many more resources and opportunities that we don't? The local high school (I am an alumna) is frankly pretty mediocre, but even so, do they just have more access to AP classes, science club, etc. and does that make a difference? One homeschooled kid in our large homeschool circle was just accepted at Harvard, but he's truly in a class by himself, so he's not representative ...

 

This is an interesting thread.

 

Laura, the homeschool kids you mention wouldn't even be applying to top tier schools, though, would they? They're not even in the running as I imagine the majority of kids in public school aren't, either. My oldest graduated from a very well-rated public high school. I don't think anyone got into MIT that year or any other school of that level of competition. I believe some got into some top small LAC. But very few. One kid did get into Cornell. His dad went there, too. I think this year they had two or three NMSF and there are about 900 kids per grade.

 

I would think all three of the kids you mention who got accepted to top tier schools are pretty much in a class by themselves, whether homeschooled or traditionally schooled.

 

Which brings me to the original poster's concerns regarding doing her children a disservice by homeschooling--I don't believe so. Imagine all you'd have missed out on with your dear children if you hadn't shared these years with them! And to have two full rides and to be a NMF, that's an achievement to be very proud of.

 

When everyone in the running for a spot at a top tier school has great stats in every possible way, it helps to be different. So being out of the box as opposed to in would be a good thing. As long as you are still brilliant in all the traditional ways, too.;) I have read in various places that colleges like to see how homeschoolers have taken advantage of the freedom homeschooling has afforded them. I would say that does go in favor of allowing your kids plenty of freedom to pursue out of the box sorts of things and making sure homeschool kids have the time to do.

 

I love Cal Newport's book How to be a High School Superstar. He discusses how important it is for kids to free up as much time as possible so that they can discover what they are passionate about. He encourages kids to develop a serious reading habit, which will hopefully lead them to things they care deeply about. And really, what kid wouldn't be helped by developing a serious reading habit regardless of their future plans? He advises kids to not have too many "showboat" courses that take up all their time. Excellent advice IMO. Kids need time to breathe and just be. I really love his advice regardless of a kid's future goals.

 

I homeschool my kids for many reasons. Non-academic reasons are just as important to me as academic reasons. The freedom my kids have enjoyed these past five years is priceless. I am so grateful for the one on one time I've had with my girls so far. Having never homeschooled a kid through high school, sure I worry about the whole college thing looming down the road. But my rising 9th grader wants to homeschool high school, so we are moving forward. I recently told my 14 yo if we can get her into our state university, we're good.

[creekland]

Very interesting thread topic ... I was just wondering the exact same thing. My (homeschooled) son was invited to participate in the evening prep sessions at the local high school for the AP Calculus exam that's coming up. Well, two weeks ago we found out that one girl was accepted at MIT, and then last night we heard another girl just found out she was accepted at Stanford. Obviously we're happy for their success (and the teacher was very proud), and they've worked hard for it, but then I look at some of the homeschooled kids we know who are ... treading water. Still living at home, at age 18 or 19, and talking about doing CLEPs or starting at the local community college ... and these are kids whose parents have advanced degrees in math or science (sorry, I can't use that acronym "STEM"), so I would have thought their kids would be on a similar path. Do kids in ps have so many more resources and opportunities that we don't? The local high school (I am an alumna) is frankly pretty mediocre, but even so, do they just have more access to AP classes, science club, etc. and does that make a difference? One homeschooled kid in our large homeschool circle was just accepted at Harvard, but he's truly in a class by himself, so he's not representative ...

 

And at my high school the only AP class offered is Calc. Few of the students take the test and of those who do, rarely does anyone get better than a 2 on it.

 

Kids can graduate with a 4.0 GPA having taken top classes and test into remedial classes at average colleges.

 

We've never gotten anyone into MIT or Standford or their equivalents. Our schools has their first NMSF in years and she moved into our district from a place with a better foundation.

 

I homeschool FOR the academics and FOR the chance at better places for my boys IF they want them (the better places that is, they get the better academics).

 

It all depends on your area. I, myself, went to a great high school that often sent kids to Ivies and equivalent. I chose not to go as high and wasn't well loved by my guidance office or a couple of teachers for my decision since I was 2nd in my class. Kids "lower" than me stats-wise went to MIT and Stanford.

 

One description doesn't fit all cases. Each of us has to make our own decisions.

[distancia]

...one of the "pluses" to homeschooling is being able to have some sort of non-traditional extra curricular on the application, so there could be something to it. If you have a pile of applicants all of whom are qualified with essentially the same stats, which one would you pick? They want diversity.

:iagree:

 

Our dd was recruited by some top universities and colleges, including H, because she has a very unique extracurricular that put her in the pages of a national magazine. Her text scores in CR and Writing are really really high but Math is average (that's why there is remedial math at Harvard, folks!).

 

I know for a fact she was contacted because of her one EC that makes her stand out from the "average" overachieving valedictorian/NMF type of student. I was told by the recruiter that they saw her featured in XXX magazine.

 

Homeschooling has not been detrimental to our dd. In fact, I wish we had started earlier, instead of in 11th grade.

___________________________

 

DD - freshman fall 2011 at New College of Florida

Edited April 2, 2011 by distancia

[Bostonian]

The general problem is that admissions to the most selective schools have become ever more competitive.

 

Holding test scores constant, your child will be at a disadvantage if

 

(1) you are white or Asian -- see http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/07/how_diversity_punishes_asians.html

 

(2) you or your husband are not an alumnus (selective schools have "legacy" preferences)

 

(3) you and your husband are well-educated (selective schools have lower standards for applicants who are the first in their family to attend college).

 

I think colleges should not be exempt from civil rights laws and that those that discriminate on the basis of race should not get any federal aid. I am waiting for the Republicans to take up this issue.