Nakia Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I have a few questions about teaching music. I'm not talking about music appreciation. We have that covered. I'm talking about things like how to read music, notes, octaves, etc. I don't even know what to ask because I am very very very unmusical (is that a word????). None of my children have shown any interest in learning to play an instrument, and I have offered to put them in lessons. I think they are about as musically inclined as I am. ;) I do think it's probably good for them to at least learn to play a recorder and read music, right? I remember doing that. I don't really know the value of it, but I did learn it. I guess I just need some direction and guidance on what is necessary and then what I need to use to make it happen. Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 If you're just wanting to learn how to read and basic things about music notation and values of notes and such, you could just get a book on music theory. Your library will probably have a selection of books and the web as well. There are really only 2 clef's you need to concern yourself with (3 if you're interested playing drums) that all music is written on. I'd start with the basics there. Hope that helps. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I also know very little. I am working through Christian Light music workbook grade 4 right now and playing tunes from the Scottish Psalter on a small cheap plastic keyboard a friend bought me. Before she bought it for me I was playing the tunes on a keyboard app on my ipad. I have the Scottish Psalter in the back of my Bible. All the Psalms are translated into CM (common meter) 8686 so that any CM tune will work with any psalm/song. I've heard it said that Psalm singing churches in Scotland have some of the worst church music in the world :-0 I like the idea though. So each time I learn a tune I can sing 150 different psalms/songs to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbabe Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 My top 3 choices. Don't have tons of experience with them, but they are all solid music theory programs. Music Ace http://www.harmonicvision.com/mafact.htm Alfred Music Essentials (this comes in workbook formatas well) http://www.alfred.com/Products/Essentials-of-Music-Theory-Software-Version-20-CD-ROM-Student-Version-Complete-Volume--00-18833.aspx MusIQ Homeschool http://www.musiqhomeschool.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I second Music Ace, and Music Ace Deluxe. They're great programs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Thanks!! I will look into these suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 My top 3 choices. Don't have tons of experience with them, but they are all solid music theory programs. Music Ace http://www.harmonicvision.com/mafact.htm Alfred Music Essentials (this comes in workbook formatas well) http://www.alfred.com/Products/Essentials-of-Music-Theory-Software-Version-20-CD-ROM-Student-Version-Complete-Volume--00-18833.aspx MusIQ Homeschool http://www.musiqhomeschool.com/ These look great, thank you :)! I knew about the Alfred Essentials of Music Theory package but had never heard of the others. Keeping these in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay3fer Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 For what it's worth, I am trying to go with recorder because it's super-cheap and I can afford a decent one for everyone in the family (2 homeschoolers, but also 2 highschoolers who sometimes join in). I can't do that with violins or pianos. :-) I invested in a few cheap recorders from Rainbow, along with Penny Gardner's Nine-Note Recorder Method book. You can check out the first five pages online to see if the method works. I studied piano, recorder and viola at various times during my childhood and came away with absolutely ZERO talent and only the most limited ability to read and understand music. (dh, who actually plays guitar, asked me what key something was in, and I was able to count up through the treble clef and guess that it was F sharp major, but I had no clue what that meant or anything else other than the actual notes) Despite having me for a parent, I want the kids to have some hands-on experience creating music. On a more casual level, I have also filled the house with other musical things: tambourines of all kinds, a cheap drum, stuff that jingles and plinks and whatnot. It all counts. Singing counts. I hope the recorder, plus our classical listening selections, plus whatever live performances we can afford will give them a bit more understanding of music than I came away with. Never heard of the Scottish Psalter - we're Jewish, but use Psalms a lot. I'll definitely have to look into that a bit further! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I don't really know the value of it, but I did learn it. I guess I just need some direction and guidance on what is necessary and then what I need to use to make it happen. I am answering this with my music teacher hat on. I think it's great that you want to do this. I will try to give you a few tips that have been useful to me as a teacher. The most valuable music lesson that we give our children is the joy of expressing themselves musically. This can be singing, drumming, playing an instrument or even a kazoo. The reading and theory are extras on top of that to take them to the next level. I see it as a similar process of learning to read. We first speak to our kids and read them wonderful literature then we teach them how to read (and still speak to them and read great books out loud). Often with music people jump right into the "phonics" without having too much of the conversation or story time. If you are not very musical yourself your conversations might be simple. Perhaps you can play or sing "Hot cross buns" or "Mary had a little lamb". This is fine. You don't have to be a virtuosic player to teach a beginner. You can use recordings too if you have a recorder book that comes with a good CD. The Do It Play recorder books by Froseth have a CD that is pretty good, there might be others too. It's really important for a child to be able to sing or play simple tunes before they jump into reading otherwise the notation doesn't have much meaning to them and it can seem a bit pointless. Other things... Practice note name reading and rhythm reading separately Use physical movements to help students learn rhythmic feel. (clapping, patting, marching etc.) Practice small chunks Practice slowly. Have a place where they can practice with good posture (a music stand or piano). If you sing, sing for your kids and have them sing back to you. They learn more that way than if they sing along. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merry gardens Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I am answering this with my music teacher hat on. I think it's great that you want to do this. I will try to give you a few tips that have been useful to me as a teacher. The most valuable music lesson that we give our children is the joy of expressing themselves musically. This can be singing, drumming, playing an instrument or even a kazoo. The reading and theory are extras on top of that to take them to the next level. I see it as a similar process of learning to read. We first speak to our kids and read them wonderful literature then we teach them how to read (and still speak to them and read great books out loud). Often with music people jump right into the "phonics" without having too much of the conversation or story time. If you are not very musical yourself your conversations might be simple. Perhaps you can play or sing "Hot cross buns" or "Mary had a little lamb". This is fine. You don't have to be a virtuosic player to teach a beginner. You can use recordings too if you have a recorder book that comes with a good CD. The Do It Play recorder books by Froseth have a CD that is pretty good, there might be others too. It's really important for a child to be able to sing or play simple tunes before they jump into reading otherwise the notation doesn't have much meaning to them and it can seem a bit pointless. Other things... Practice note name reading and rhythm reading separately Use physical movements to help students learn rhythmic feel. (clapping, patting, marching etc.) Practice small chunks Practice slowly. Have a place where they can practice with good posture (a music stand or piano). If you sing, sing for your kids and have them sing back to you. They learn more that way than if they sing along. Good Luck! Thanks for sharing all that! I believe there is value to learning music that also goes beyond the music. Learning music builds some critical brain connections. Timing, rhythm, fractions, patterns--there's a lot of math and even physics involved in music. Adding in the lyrics involves rhyming and poetry too. Music is stored and processed in a different way in the brain, and music provides a good way to learn and memorize information. (Let's all start singing all those grammar rock songs now! "A noun is a person, place or thing...") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dina in Oklahoma Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Hello ~ I just bought Music Ace Deluxe and will pair it with Rod and Staff workbook and flashcards. http://www.rodandstaffbooks.com/list/Rod_and_Staff_Music/ Dina :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay3fer Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Just found this link - a VERY basic music-appreciation curriculum - and thought it might add something to this thread: http://www.charlottemasonhelp.com/2010/02/complete-music-appreciation-curriculum.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I am answering this with my music teacher hat on. I think it's great that you want to do this. I will try to give you a few tips that have been useful to me as a teacher. The most valuable music lesson that we give our children is the joy of expressing themselves musically. This can be singing, drumming, playing an instrument or even a kazoo. The reading and theory are extras on top of that to take them to the next level. I see it as a similar process of learning to read. We first speak to our kids and read them wonderful literature then we teach them how to read (and still speak to them and read great books out loud). Often with music people jump right into the "phonics" without having too much of the conversation or story time. If you are not very musical yourself your conversations might be simple. Perhaps you can play or sing "Hot cross buns" or "Mary had a little lamb". This is fine. You don't have to be a virtuosic player to teach a beginner. You can use recordings too if you have a recorder book that comes with a good CD. The Do It Play recorder books by Froseth have a CD that is pretty good, there might be others too. It's really important for a child to be able to sing or play simple tunes before they jump into reading otherwise the notation doesn't have much meaning to them and it can seem a bit pointless. Other things... Practice note name reading and rhythm reading separately Use physical movements to help students learn rhythmic feel. (clapping, patting, marching etc.) Practice small chunks Practice slowly. Have a place where they can practice with good posture (a music stand or piano). If you sing, sing for your kids and have them sing back to you. They learn more that way than if they sing along. Good Luck! :iagree::iagree: Sage advice. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanne in MN Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Another vote for Music Ace Deluxe. It does a great job teaching music theory, the kids have to do well in order to move on to the next level and they can do it on their own-although I like to check in and see if they need help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Hello ~ I just bought Music Ace Deluxe and will pair it with Rod and Staff workbook and flashcards. http://www.rodandstaffbooks.com/list/Rod_and_Staff_Music/ Dina :001_smile: Thanks! I have actually looked at the R&S music curriculum. It looks simple enough for even me to teach. And the fact that it is so inexpensive makes it even better! I have a question that you might know the answer to. I would like to combine my 3rd and 6th graders since neither of them have had any music instruction. Do know if we could pick a grade in the middle and use that for both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 I am answering this with my music teacher hat on. I think it's great that you want to do this. I will try to give you a few tips that have been useful to me as a teacher. The most valuable music lesson that we give our children is the joy of expressing themselves musically. This can be singing, drumming, playing an instrument or even a kazoo. The reading and theory are extras on top of that to take them to the next level. I see it as a similar process of learning to read. We first speak to our kids and read them wonderful literature then we teach them how to read (and still speak to them and read great books out loud). Often with music people jump right into the "phonics" without having too much of the conversation or story time. If you are not very musical yourself your conversations might be simple. Perhaps you can play or sing "Hot cross buns" or "Mary had a little lamb". This is fine. You don't have to be a virtuosic player to teach a beginner. You can use recordings too if you have a recorder book that comes with a good CD. The Do It Play recorder books by Froseth have a CD that is pretty good, there might be others too. It's really important for a child to be able to sing or play simple tunes before they jump into reading otherwise the notation doesn't have much meaning to them and it can seem a bit pointless. Other things... Practice note name reading and rhythm reading separately Use physical movements to help students learn rhythmic feel. (clapping, patting, marching etc.) Practice small chunks Practice slowly. Have a place where they can practice with good posture (a music stand or piano). If you sing, sing for your kids and have them sing back to you. They learn more that way than if they sing along. Good Luck! Thank you! We already do most of the things on your list. We don't do note naming because I don't know the notes or what any of the symbols mean. Can you recommend something that will hold my hand for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 What I would really like to find is a music curriculum like Artistic Pursuits. It combines art instruction and art appreciation. We love it. Is there such a thing for music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2_girls_mommy Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 We have used R&S music worksheets and flashcards from the beginning. I have the music book for 4th grade for next year already too, and I am looking forward to using it. It finally gets in to more than the others did. If you did R&S with the littles and did the singing of the scales and such that it asks and your older jumped into the 4th grade book, he would not be missing anything. As for recorder, we did one that came with a beginning book that went lesson by lesson very simply. It went well last year for my 2nd grade dd. And for appreciation, we use What Your X Grader Needs to Know. We read a section once a month or so, and pick up books and C.D.s from the library to go along. I also purchase kids C.D.s that have the songs on them that they list for each year to learn, and we learn those over the year too. I don't know if there is a program that puts this all together, but I have been happy with what we have done. Other things we have done are Alfred Piano DVDs at home. These cover a lot of concepts like rhythm and pitch that are going to be picked up in the R&S 4th next year too. And we have done Kinderbach DVD program at co-op. The music teacher there does the rhythm w/the music sticks, clapping and other things that another poster mentioned. I like the program ok, but it doesn't have any appreciation or singing that I would want in a complete program. We don't do all of this at once obviously. But we love music and go back and forth learning new songs or about a composer and his music, all the while trying to keep up w/R&S worksheets and piano practice each week. (The recorder was last year) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbabe Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 The MusIQ Homeschool I posted above is theory and appreciation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 The MusIQ is all online and computer resources? I'm trying really hard to pick the majority of my music curriculum offline, as a time to heal and soothe and pull back from all the technology as much as possible. Yeh...the keyboard is battery operated :-0 But at least it is not plugged into a computer that can start malfunctioning at any time and add HUGE amounts of stress to my destressing activity. Are there small piano boards that just play little more than what a soprano can sing? I just want to use the piano to model what I want to learn to sing. It would be nice to even get rid of the electronic keyboard, but I cetainly do not want a piano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbabe Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 MusIQ is used on the computer, yes. If you're wanting something fun, and you're a little familiar with music yourself (or have a book to help you teach) this is a really fun resource. http://www.musicmindgames.com/ I think it lends itself better to group teaching, but the games could be played with just you and a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Thank you! We already do most of the things on your list. We don't do note naming because I don't know the notes or what any of the symbols mean. Can you recommend something that will hold my hand for that? Nothing that hasn't already been mentioned. Music ace is cute and fun. Not sure how much it applies the note reading to an instrument though. I am not familiar with the other programs. Music Mind Games looked interesting. I wouldn't be teaching kids rhythms until they could perform the rhythms on their own accurately and I would teach them as a call and response rather than having the student follow along and say the rhythm with me. But maybe I am just being picky. It looked like a cool program. I wasn't able to look at musiciq in detail but the chance to apply concepts on a piano would probably be a bonus. There is also kinderbach which no one mentioned, but for this you would also need a keyboard. Sorry that I can't be too much help. i haven't found a music software program that I really love yet. The choices have gotten better over the years but I haven't seen one that I have fallen in love with yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfcartmama Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Has anyone use BJU music?? It looks good in the RR catalog. What about Calvert's Discoveries in Music? Just asking...I've been looking for months for a good one. I may go the way of Music Ace Deluxe to keep it simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Has anyone use BJU music?? It looks good in the RR catalog. What about Calvert's Discoveries in Music? Just asking...I've been looking for months for a good one. I may go the way of Music Ace Deluxe to keep it simple. I have never tried BJU's program but I own Calvert's Discoveries in Music and have used it several times with Adrian at various levels. We are using it again this year and combining with Story of the Orchestra. It is great for giving kids a general idea/ foundation for music and it is great having the DVD's for my visual kid and you can build on it also, adding other resources. While using it, Adrian at the age of 4 1/2 learned to distinguish between instruments and could tell you what family of instruments they belong to. This year we are adding by checking out various other instruments he did not yet know. Also, it is great for explaining things like the Orchestra, what a conductor does, bands and the list goes on. My favorite is the part on Rhythm, Beat and Tempo and the intro to melodies. We also own Bob McGrath's Rhythm and Band set and a keyboard and acoustic guitar so the boys are exposed to several musical instruments. Calvert's program says it is for the K-3 crowd. After this thread I remembered to check the Alfred materials and was able to find a guitar program and music theory set. I am getting that for next year to teach my son guitar. It's been many years since I took guitar but I will just give him an intro to see how he likes it so that we can decide whether to go for professional lessons with him or have him try another instrument. He will be inheriting his granddad's classical guitar one day :D. Edited February 25, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dina in Oklahoma Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Thanks! I have actually looked at the R&S music curriculum. It looks simple enough for even me to teach. And the fact that it is so inexpensive makes it even better! I have a question that you might know the answer to. I would like to combine my 3rd and 6th graders since neither of them have had any music instruction. Do know if we could pick a grade in the middle and use that for both? Nakia ~ I chose to start with Worksheets 2 since my DD 11 had no experience with music. Because music like arithmatic builds on itself, I think it is very important to provide a firm foundation. Depending on how you pace it, your children could easily get through two books a year. The flashcards were from CBD not R&S :001_huh: http://www.christianbook.com/flash-cards-the-beginning-music-student/3808114158/pd/12061?item_code=WW&netp_id=148226&event=EBRN&view=details Here are some resources for composer study: http://www.classicsforkids.com/composers/ http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/search?author=June%20Montgomery&detailed_search=1&action=Search http://dontneednoeducation.blogspot.com/2009/10/classical-music-composer-study.html http://amblesideonline.org/ComposerSch.shtml http://www.cornerstonecurriculum.com/Curriculum/Music/Music.htm# Also, I picked up a book at Barnes Noble for very little entitled The Encycolpedia of Music by Max Wade-Matthews & Wendy Thompson. It might be a fun read aloud as they get a bit older. Hope this helps, Dina :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifra Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I have a few questions about teaching music. I'm not talking about music appreciation. We have that covered. I'm talking about things like how to read music, notes, octaves, etc. I don't even know what to ask because I am very very very unmusical (is that a word????). None of my children have shown any interest in learning to play an instrument, and I have offered to put them in lessons. I think they are about as musically inclined as I am. ;) I do think it's probably good for them to at least learn to play a recorder and read music, right? I remember doing that. I don't really know the value of it, but I did learn it. I guess I just need some direction and guidance on what is necessary and then what I need to use to make it happen. Thanks!! A good activity book for learning to read music is Keyboard Capers, for which you can buy manipulatives (or make your own from the book). As is implied by the title, you would need a keyboard to teach the concepts, but it could be a really cheap keyboard that you buy at Target or Walmart. As far as teaching recorder, I used Oak Meadow's recorder syllabus. It is a four year program, and you buy a new syllabus every year. You do not need to order a complete curriculum in order to order the syllabus. The recorder syllabus assumes that you know nothing about reading music. By the way, you can get a really good plastic soprano recorder for under US$10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I can highly recommend the Alfred company notespellers or the Music Adventures Theory books for self-implementing basic music reading on a theoretical level. You can also get recorders once your children understand very basic rhymn notation and treble clef notes from say middle C- treble C. A good music store will have books for teaching recorder and if the parent spends a little time learning the material, he/she can then teach it to the child. It's a great way to get your feet wet on an instrument that is not difficult to play. These are plastic, simple pitched, no reed instruments. Not the difficult, Renaissance all wood recorders that are used by professional players at high end madrigal dinners and SCA events. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutTN Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I am not musical either. I feel totally unable to teach music to my kids! My DD is getting some excellent, fun music instruction in a church choir program and I have friends whose children are having a similar experience in a local chorus for school aged kids (public, run by the city, just sign up, small fee - though there are several private or by-audition ones too). We may do piano lessons later, but for now, DD is enjoying the social aspect and learning too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Barnyard Friends is free and very cute! :-) http://www.pianodiscoveries.ca/barnyard-friends.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Barnyard Friends is free and very cute! :-) http://www.pianodiscoveries.ca/barnyard-friends.html These are cute! Thank you :)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Inman Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 ... Penny Gardner's Nine-Note Recorder Method book. I have zero music ability... we started (and still do..) listen to mostly only classical music in the car and during school. Then we got Penny Gardner's book and some recorders. After learning the first few songs together - he took off and soon was teaching ME how to play LOL. He showed some talent so we put him in violin lessons and he loves it :) Anyway my point being that the Nine note book was a very gentle introduction to reading music and playing an instrument that even I could do. We also used http://www.makingmusicfun.net/ - they have printable recorder music AND videos teaching you how to play the songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onaclairadeluna Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Are there small piano boards that just play little more than what a soprano can sing? I just want to use the piano to model what I want to learn to sing. It would be nice to even get rid of the electronic keyboard, but I cetainly do not want a piano. What about a xylophone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Hmm...interesting idea! I would have never thought of that! I like it :-) My Rod and Staff catalog came in today. I think I'm going to start with grade one. I understand CLE grade 4 but it is moving too fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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