brownie Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 We are using CPO Life science this year with my 4th grader. I know CPO is supposed to be less cluttered, but any other thoughts specifically on the Physical Science for next year? I did notice PH seems to start with Chemistry and CPO ends with it...I'm not thrilled about that since I would like to focus in on the physics (we just did chem last year and there are plenty of good chem resources out there). I'm concerned that the 2nd half of prentice hall may specifically rely on the chem knowledge gained in the first half of their course. I wouldn't consider jumping ship for PH now that we're accustomed to CPO EXCEPT that Kolbe sells lesson plans, tests, etc for PH as their 8th grade science curriculum. It has been time consuming pulling together a home school course from a ps curriculum. The lab info has been sadly lacking in detail, leaving me guessing at times...don't know if that's just because we don't buy the very expensive lab kit. It would be nice to have some help. Brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 We are using CPO Life science this year with my 4th grader. I know CPO is supposed to be less cluttered, but any other thoughts specifically on the Physical Science for next year? I did notice PH seems to start with Chemistry and CPO ends with it...I'm not thrilled about that since I would like to focus in on the physics (we just did chem last year and there are plenty of good chem resources out there). I'm concerned that the 2nd half of prentice hall may specifically rely on the chem knowledge gained in the first half of their course. CPO doesn't end with chemistry, but with Physical Science (which does include Chem, but also Physics - I think that mix is what makes it "Physical Science" rather than just "Physics"). Looking at the TOC, I do see the final chapters are Chem - is that what you mean? :) I also didn't want Chem in 8th (we used RS4K and Ellen McHenry for Chem and didn't feel the need for more Chem, but more Physics. not just half the book). So next year for 8th we're using CPO's Physics: A First Course, which is for 8-10th grades and all Physics, no Chem. I just got the books in the mail today! :D Physics is CPO's strength (it was founded by a physicist and all its books above the middle school are physics only) - from what I've heard, the Physics books from Prentice Hall are the weakest in the series. And it's cluttered. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Yes that's what I mean...CPO starts with Physics and ends with a bit of chemistry (which fits what I want pretty well next year...if we don't get to the chem - oh well!) I think PH starts with chem. I really just want physics at a lower level than their "physics" course since ds will only be in 5th grade. Any other differences? Brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Be sure to report back Matroyshka once you've had time to peruse PHysics A First Course. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Be sure to report back Matroyshka once you've had time to peruse PHysics A First Course. :001_smile: Ack, it's got 24 chapters!!! The middle school Physical Science has about 8 chapters of what could be termed "physics" rather than "general science" (like yet another introductory chapter on the scientific method and measurement) or chemistry - and the PaFC starts right in with distance, time, speed and Newton's laws rather than that fluff - why oh why couldn't they have increased the physics, to oh, say, 18 chapters rather than 24??! (We've been doing a chapter over 2 weeks with our previous CPO books, so 18 chaps = 36 wks). My best friend is now a 9th grade physical science teacher - she laughs when I say this and says they never cover the whole book in any class, just pick chapters. So I'm going to show her the book and ask which chapters to cover and which to skip. 24 chapters. :glare: CPO's 8-10th grade Foundations of Physical Science has 25 chapters - the first 3 are "intro to scienctific method and measurement" and "science skills", then 16 chapters are physics and 6 on chemistry. Hm - maybe I should go look at what's in those 16 chapters... In retrospect I guess I could've just gotten that and skipped the chem chapters... :tongue_smilie: How many chapters does that Hewitt Conceptual Physics have that I've heard so much about, I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I really just want physics at a lower level than their "physics" course since ds will only be in 5th grade. Any other differences? I think any middle school physical science these days is going to include intro-Algebra type math at least, so would be hard to use for 5th grade. I'm thinking of getting my dd (who'll be 5th/6th grade next year) Exploration Education's curriculum. It's on CD, but with hands-on experiments included. But I'm looking for something she can do somewhat independently, as I'll probably be spending a lot of time with the two 8th graders I'll have... she'll get to the CPO book with all the math in another 3 years, so I'll be happy with a solid introduction for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmia Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 What about buying the following three books (which are available used from .01 cent to a couple of dollars plus 3.99 shipping). They are perfect for 5th grade and cover all the physics topics in Prentice Hall Physical Science textbook and none of the chemistry. They are also smaller and easier to handle than the big textbook. Prentice Hall Science: Sound and Light by Anthea Maton Prentice Hall Science: Motion, Forces and Energy by Michael J. Padilla Prentice Hall Science: Electricity and Magnetism by Anthea Maton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Ack, it's got 24 chapters!!! The middle school Physical Science has about 8 chapters of what could be termed "physics" rather than "general science" (like yet another introductory chapter on the scientific method and measurement) or chemistry - and the PaFC starts right in with distance, time, speed and Newton's laws rather than that fluff - why oh why couldn't they have increased the physics, to oh, say, 18 chapters rather than 24??! (We've been doing a chapter over 2 weeks with our previous CPO books, so 18 chaps = 36 wks). My best friend is now a 9th grade physical science teacher - she laughs when I say this and says they never cover the whole book in any class, just pick chapters. So I'm going to show her the book and ask which chapters to cover and which to skip. 24 chapters. :glare: CPO's 8-10th grade Foundations of Physical Science has 25 chapters - the first 3 are "intro to scienctific method and measurement" and "science skills", then 16 chapters are physics and 6 on chemistry. Hm - maybe I should go look at what's in those 16 chapters... In retrospect I guess I could've just gotten that and skipped the chem chapters... :tongue_smilie: How many chapters does that Hewitt Conceptual Physics have that I've heard so much about, I wonder? I could never figure out Hewitt w/ all the different middle, high, remedial college - numerous ISBNs........ Now you have me thinking about CPOs 8-10th grade Foundations in Physical Science. I'd love to have that in my hands to compare w/ the middle school Physical Science which I already own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 We are using CPO Life science this year with my 4th grader. I know CPO is supposed to be less cluttered, but any other thoughts specifically on the Physical Science for next year? I did notice PH seems to start with Chemistry and CPO ends with it...I'm not thrilled about that since I would like to focus in on the physics (we just did chem last year and there are plenty of good chem resources out there). I'm concerned that the 2nd half of prentice hall may specifically rely on the chem knowledge gained in the first half of their course.Brownie I'm using the PH COI book that Kolbe has plans for. The 2nd half of the book does NOT rely on the chem knowledge gained in the first half. You spend time on chemistry, then on Physics. The book is very busy with pull outs, quick labs, and math skills practice just to name a few, but we really like it. It also contains a lot of white space and a single column of text that is about 2/3 of a page wide and very readable. I have never seen the CPO book to compare, but I just did a lot of comparisons for Biology. The Miller Levine Biology book is laid out exactly the same way. You can get a 30-day preview it from the Pearson site if you want to see what the inside of the book looks like (even though the topic is different). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Kalmia, What grade are those books intended for? How do they differ? DS will be doing Pre-algebra in 5th grade and Kolbe says concurrent pre-algebra is fine for the PH physical science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Momto2Ns - Thanks! So you think we could easily skip straight to the physics chapters in PH? How many physics chapter are there? Brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmia Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The three books are just a previous incarnation of the current textbook (from the 1990s). They also have section reviews, chapter reviews, simple experiments, and an activity bank in the back. The subjects covered are the same, but the older books are written in a slightly different style. The explanations in the new large textbook are considerably shorter than those in the three older books as you can see below. I find the older ones much easier to understand. The new one seems like an expanded glossary. Here is a sample from the current Science Explorer: PH Physical Science text: "Types of Waves Waves move through mediums in different ways. Mechanical waves are classified by how they move. there are two types of mechanical waves: transverse waves and longitudinal waves. Transverse Waves When you make a wave on a rope the wave moves from one end of the rope to the other. But the rope itself moves up and down or from side to side, at right angles to the direction in which the wave travels. Waves that move the medium at right angles to the direction in which the waves travel are called transverse waves. Transverse means "across." As a transverse wave moves, the particles of the medium move across, or at a right angle to, the direction of the wave." Here is a sample from PH Sound and Light version: "Types of Waves You learned that mechanical waves require a medium through which to travel. Although they share this characteristic, all mechanical waves are not the same. Ocean waves are a different type of wave from sound waves. Why? Although they both transfer energy through a medium, the movement of the disturbance, or wave, through the medium is quite different. Depending on the motion of the medium as compared to the movement of the wave, waves are classified as either transverse or longitudinal. Transverse Waves When one end of a rope is jerked, energy is given to the nearby particles of rope. These particles start to move up and down (vertically) as a result of the energy. As they move, they transfer energy to neighboring particles, which in turn move up and down. As each neighboring rope particle begins to move up and down, energy is transferred from one place to another (horizontally). Each particle moves up and down, but the wave moves horizontally along the rope. Thus the movement of the particles is vertical while the movement of the wave is horizontal. A wave in which the motion of the medium is at right angles to the direction of a wave is called a transverse wave. A wave on a rope is a transverse wave. Light and other electromagnetic waves are transverse waves." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 oooh...I do like that language better! It's more conversational...I like lots of explanation as well - I'm long winded! Too many choices. I would like to use Kolbe though if we do PH - I need to check on what they provide and how much it costs. Brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Brownie - Can you provide a link to the Kolbe materials to which you are referring? THanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 http://www.kolbe.org/eighth_grade_curriculum/ Scroll down 2/3s of the way to Science. There is not a lot of info there and their ordering page is down. But I have a friend who has used them and been pleased so I am going to eventually call and check into it. Support for a ps curriculum would be ideal. Brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmia Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I'm not familiar with Kolbe. However, since the table of contents for the older PH books and the newer PH SE textbook are practically the same. It would only take a little tweaking to align a study guide or supplemental experiment list with the older one. FYI: The Science Explorer textbook spends 45 pages on the topics of sound and light while the PH Sound and Light devotes 142 pages to the topics. It might be worth spending the .01 cent and the 3.99 shipping on Amazon to get one of the "acceptable" ones and take a look. Anyway, at those prices, you could get all three and have lots of money left for experiments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Where are the expts found for PH? For CPO you need to get them on their website. Brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 We are using PH Physical Science with the Kolbe schedule and guide. It does start with chemistry, and goes pretty deep, for a physical science level book. My son is currently doing the second half, which is physics. It's very much an intro to mechanics, with algebra in it. It may not be what you're looking for at all. It really is a grade 8 book. Since your son is in grade 5, I would follow Kalmia's recommendation. They are more that I would expect for a good grade 5 curriculum, than what my son's currently doing for grade 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Where are the expts found for PH? For CPO you need to get them on their website. Brownie No, there's an Investigations Lab book for each CPO text. The lab sheets are also available free online, but there is a book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmia Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) The Activity Bank in the back of Prentice Hall Sound and Light, for example, has 10 experiments with household objects. It also has 17 "Doing" and "Discovering" Activities scattered throughout the book with mostly household items plus a few that must be bought like colored filters, beaker, tuning forks, and convex and concave lenses, and at the end of each of the four chapters is a "Laboratory Investigation" with a formal experiment followed by questions. That is a total of 41 experiments per book. Remember, that there are no answers in the student book, but the questions are not that difficult, mostly referring back to the text or to the experimental results. In Sound and Light, I did not see any that required algebra. Few that required any math at all. Edited February 8, 2011 by Kalmia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 CleoQC What does Kolbe provide and about how much does it cost? I see from the sample that it has a work schedule, quizzes and tests as well as their own answer key. Those would be so nice! Are the labs the ones from the book then? Do they sell a lab equipment set or are you on your own? Brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 CleoQC I see from the sample that it has a work schedule, quizzes and tests as well as their own answer key. Those would be so nice! Are the labs the ones from the book then? Do they sell a lab equipment set or are you on your own? Brownie That's pretty much it: work schedule, quizzes and tests as well as their own answer key. The answer key is only for the problems they assign, not for every problem in the book. As for labs, they only require the quick labs from the book, which can usually be done with household items. The 'big labs' (my terminology) we managed to do by going to a lab in the area. Kolbe does not sell anything for labs. You're on your own. I don't remember how much I paid, and it wouldn't help you much anyway, because I was hit with humongous shipping for international shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Momto2Ns - Thanks! So you think we could easily skip straight to the physics chapters in PH? How many physics chapter are there? Brownie Yes, you could skip straight to the physics chapters. Physics started at chapter 11. I can't remember how many chapters there are, I think it is about 13 chapters of physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Kalmia, In which year were the books you quoted from published? There seem to be 2 versions and I like the more conversational explanations. I'm thinking 1997 since that seems to be the year all 3 books match the authors you provided. Brownie Edited February 9, 2011 by brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmia Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Yup, 1997! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 I just have to say...this board rocks. What an invaluable resource. Brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Just wanted to say...I followed the advice here and got the mechanics PH book used to look over. I am very pleased with it. Having the skinny book makes it more manageable for an 11 year old...less overwhelming. Also it allows us to just not do the chemistry portion and have a reasonable amount of work for an 11 year old. I have already planned out the five chapters for fall, lots of nice demonstrations with materials on hand... I will hardly need to purchase anything! Between the used books and simple expts, science will actually be cheaper next year. Thanks again! brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'm concerned that the 2nd half of prentice hall may specifically rely on the chem knowledge gained in the first half of their course. If you get the little books for SE you can do the topics in any order your choose. I'm assuming that you could do the same with the big book as well. Also, I'm dismayed to find out that SE presents the chemistry first in the big book. Chemistry builds on physics, not the other way around. You would be doing it the pedagogically correct way if you were to do physics first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 According to the rep, CPO Physics A First Course is supposed to compete against Hewitt in the textbook market, but the math is even more entwined, where Hewitt has extra math at the back. I emailed them about all their different books when trying to decide what to do this year. :) I wish I'd saved the email for reference here but I can't seem to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melora in NC Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Don't know if it would be helpful, but here is a link to a materials sales list from Prentice Hall that goes with their "individual" science books (the skinny ones, rather than the thick ones like Physical Science and Biology. I haven't tried ordering from them, but I bookmarked the link because I might someday and I have Such a hard time finding All the materials I need for experiements! We are using Prentice Hall's Physical Science book as part of the Awakening Wonder program (just started, but so far so good). My son is 12, and the book seems about at his level. It would have been completely over his head in 5th grade, but we are not especially "science-y." There doesn't seem to be a huge lot of advanced math, but if I were buying for my son in 5th grade I would go for their thinner physical science book -- Motion, Forces, and Energy. I've been looking at Kolbe too (for when my younger is through NOEO's Physics II and my older is done with Awakening Wonder)! I love the idea of having our progression through science all planned out, with test books & manuals & all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 There doesn't seem to be a huge lot of advanced math, but if I were buying for my son in 5th grade I would go for their thinner physical science book -- Motion, Forces, and Energy. Just to be clear, Motion, Forces, and Energy is one of three books that make up their physics piece. The other two are Electricity and Magnetism and Sound and Light. Each of the texts has about 20 lessons, so only using one would be on the extreme light side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 I just ordered all 3. I've received the 1st one...it has 5 chapters. I think instead of using that alone you'd be better off trying something at a lower level that is more comprehensive in topics. Brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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