PA people re new HSLDA log recommendations

[JoyfulMama]

For reference:

HSLDA Statement on Portfolio Log Requirements

 

In years past, I have completed an attendence chart, noting 180 days of instruction, as well as a log, designating by title the primary reading materials used, divided by subject. I have also included a log of books read by the student, as well as a log of other books utilized throughout the year (library card print-out).

 

My school district gave me a difficult time last year, stating they wanted to have a log of what was completed on each day. I said::001_tt2:

 

I know I saw some document from PDE last year which had a more detailed recommendation for the log, which is in line with what HSDLA has now detailed as well. (Can't find that again, though.)

 

So, is anyone changing how they document their log this year? How do you feel about this new statement from HSDLA?

 

(This is not meant to be a discussion of HSLDA. Please let's stay off that topic.:001_smile:)

[happypamama]

Interesting. I will be waiting to hear what other people say about this. This is my first year to report to the state/school district, and rumor has it that my local school district is generally pretty friendly to the homeschoolers. I was planning on giving them an attendance calendar with school days marked on it, plus a list of books used in each subject area, as well as some samples of work and some notes about what we studied in each area. I do keep a notebook with what we do each day, but I wasn't intending to hand that to the state; it's for my records and will be there in case I get any grief, but I don't see that that's required by the law. I don't think my evaluator expects to see that either.

 

I don't like the idea of us needing to include books used by day, because for some subjects, there are no books. If we take a family hike in the woods, I count it as a school day -- it's exercise (certainly more than I got sitting on the sidelines and playing maybe 5 minutes a week in gym class!) and possibly science and occasionally history -- but there may not be a book or other specific material included. Would I need to include hiking shoes?

 

Wish they'd just leave us alone. :)

[Carrie12345]

My eyes kind of glazed over while trying to read it, lol.

 

Personally, I think the whole thing is stupid, since you can make a crummy education look great and a fabulous education appear less so, but my evaluator seems to be perfectly capable of grasping how our homeschool works, and our superintendent didn't have any trouble rubber stamping us, so whatever.

 

My log and my attendance chart are one and the same. I have a sheet that includes the date and our books used on those dates (abbreviated). On that list, I just write "field trip" for field trips. I haven't had a day where there wasn't a single book used (even if it was just a "fun reading" book), but plenty where there were only 1 or 2 listed. And no, I don't always remember to do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE. :tongue_smilie:

 

That said, I do include a typed blurb in front of each subject's samples that includes the fact that we've watched videos, played games, completed activities, and had in depth discussions, etc. (without listing those individual things) to emphasize the fact that our low-book days are certainly not lacking.

[Sun]

No advice, but y'all are making me very thankful that I'm not in PA!

[NanceXToo]

This is the first I've read of it, but, no, I'm not going to change how I document. I do not keep or provide the type of "log" that lists hours and times of instruction or what we do on a day by day basis (well, my blog sort of does that lol).

 

I submit a statement that we have exceeded the required hours of learning, 3-5 samples from each required subject, my evaluator's letter, a "log of reading materials" (arranged by title), and a "Summary" summarizing what we did for each required subject (because as others have made mention of, not all of what we do for school is bookwork).

 

Examples of the summaries I have provided the past two years can be viewed on my blog by looking at the sidebar to the left under the "Logs, Schedules, and Samples" section. (Our logs of reading materials can be seen there as well).

 

I plan to do the same thing this year as it worked out fine the last couple of years.

 

I would really dread it if my district suddenly started insisting on a daily log summarizing what was done on a daily basis. They really should not have any right to pry that far into our daily lives!

[happypamama]

Examples of the summaries I have provided the past two years can be viewed on my blog by looking at the sidebar to the left under the "Logs, Schedules, and Samples" section. (Our logs of reading materials can be seen there as well).

 

 

Thanks for sharing those -- they were really helpful, and they seem to be similar to what I was intending to include also.

[creekland]

Evidently we live in a very homeschool friendly district. All I provide is a calendar with school days numbered, a reading list, a subject list and 8 - 10 samples of each subject - generally tests or papers. Then we include any standardized tests if taken (ACT/SAT count) and the evaluator's paper.

 

We've never had a problem. My youngest once took out his entire year's worth of math once. I was prepared for the phone call to bring it in. The only phone call I got was one telling me everything was fine and to come pick up the portfolios.

 

I don't plan to change a thing.

[Sue G in PA]

I've never turned in the actual portfolio to the district. I only turn in my evaluator's review. i don't plan to change how I do anything unless my evaluator needs to see more which I doubt she will. She is very laid back. :D

[JoyfulMama]

My eyes kind of glazed over while trying to read it, lol.

 

Personally, I think the whole thing is stupid, since you can make a crummy education look great and a fabulous education appear less so, but my evaluator seems to be perfectly capable of grasping how our homeschool works, and our superintendent didn't have any trouble rubber stamping us, so whatever.

 

My log and my attendance chart are one and the same. I have a sheet that includes the date and our books used on those dates (abbreviated). On that list, I just write "field trip" for field trips. I haven't had a day where there wasn't a single book used (even if it was just a "fun reading" book), but plenty where there were only 1 or 2 listed. And no, I don't always remember to do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE. :tongue_smilie:

 

That said, I do include a typed blurb in front of each subject's samples that includes the fact that we've watched videos, played games, completed activities, and had in depth discussions, etc. (without listing those individual things) to emphasize the fact that our low-book days are certainly not lacking.

 

My evaluator is great, and I chose her because she has homeschooled herself in my SD for many years. I know I live in a tough district. I know they like to push. I've referred to the law every time I deal with them. Just, now with HSLDA seeming like they are siding with the tough districts, I'm not thrilled.

 

Carrie, would you be willing to share what you use for your log? I think that would be way too detailed to keep up for multiple children, but dh thinks I should try to come up with something to have ready, as a backup.

[Tarreymere]

:coolgleamA: Maybe they are just interested in what the heck you are doing to make your kids so much smarter than the ones they are teaching! Maybe that Pa Homeschoolers group should offer themselves to school districts as consultants so the schools don't have to try to spy out what we do every day.

[creekland]

:coolgleamA: Maybe they are just interested in what the heck you are doing to make your kids so much smarter than the ones they are teaching!

 

When I took my current 9th grader in to sign him up for ps (his desire, not mine, but that's another story), the guidance counselor looked at his standardized test scores, asked about his older brothers (who also score high), and then asked what I used for curricula...

 

Since I work in our public high school I can freely tell you that my kids aren't necessarily "smarter" than those at ps, but a tailored education and a love of learning go a long way. Kids at our ps want to learn just enough to get by (and don't actually WANT to do that in most cases). My guys love to LEARN - 'cause they haven't sunk to the common denominator that often exists in ps.

[justasque]

You know, I really don't know what having a daily log of activities, or even a daily log of books, really tells anyone. The most important question, IMHO, is whether the child is making sustained progress. Does the <samples+log+test scores+evaluator's report> show progress? For example, I don't think a log showing how many days the kid did math really tells very much - I'd rather see an end-of-year worksheet (or 2 or 3) with a cumulative mix of problem types that would give a sense of the level at which the kid is working. A couple hundred entries of "math, pages 98-102" tells me nothing.

 

I think even a fairly slim port can give a pretty good impression of the kinds of things the child has been doing. Since we don't have to follow state standards, there isn't any specific content that is required, but a basic sense of "Is this child literate? Is this child mathematically literate? Is there other content there?" covers the basics. The superintendent's review is presumably there to detect the tiny minority of folks whose kids aren't well-served by their home ed program. Quibbling over what exactly a kid did on a particular day is, IMHO, missing the big picture. Who cares what they did on a particular day!

 

FWIW, I don't think HSLDA's position is any different than it has been for quite some time - this opinion may be newly written, but it's not new content. It's more-or-less what they've said for as long as I can remember. (Plus, it's very school-at-home-y, which is not a good fit for every family, esp. those with young kids.)

[JoyfulMama]

You know, I really don't know what having a daily log of activities, or even a daily log of books, really tells anyone. The most important question, IMHO, is whether the child is making sustained progress. Does the <samples+log+test scores+evaluator's report> show progress? For example, I don't think a log showing how many days the kid did math really tells very much - I'd rather see an end-of-year worksheet (or 2 or 3) with a cumulative mix of problem types that would give a sense of the level at which the kid is working. A couple hundred entries of "math, pages 98-102" tells me nothing.

 

I think even a fairly slim port can give a pretty good impression of the kinds of things the child has been doing. Since we don't have to follow state standards, there isn't any specific content that is required, but a basic sense of "Is this child literate? Is this child mathematically literate? Is there other content there?" covers the basics. The superintendent's review is presumably there to detect the tiny minority of folks whose kids aren't well-served by their home ed program. Quibbling over what exactly a kid did on a particular day is, IMHO, missing the big picture. Who cares what they did on a particular day!

 

FWIW, I don't think HSLDA's position is any different than it has been for quite some time - this opinion may be newly written, but it's not new content. It's more-or-less what they've said for as long as I can remember. (Plus, it's very school-at-home-y, which is not a good fit for every family, esp. those with young kids.)

 

Pauline, I completely agree with you! To me, this is busy work required of me, the supervisor of the home education program. Dh's impression is to check the boxes they want checked, just like to you have to do with a job at times.

 

Thank you for commenting on the HSLDA position. I have no idea what their previous position was. I assumed this was a new position, not a basic restatement of a previous one.

[Carrie12345]

 

Carrie, would you be willing to share what you use for your log? I think that would be way too detailed to keep up for multiple children, but dh thinks I should try to come up with something to have ready, as a backup.

 

Let's see if I remember how to attach a picture, lol!

Okay, cool!

I don't remember if I got the template from askpauline (maybe she'll chime in if she recognizes it) or Donna Young.

I have 2 portfolios going this year, but my kids have a fairly regular routine that they stick to, so it doesn't get overly crazy if I need to backtrack a few days. Ask me again next year, when I have 3 going!!!!

Edited February 4, 2011 by Carrie1234

[justasque]

.I don't remember if I got the template from askpauline (maybe she'll chime in if she recognizes it) ...

 

Yep! It's my super simple book log!

More log forms here. :)

[6packofun]

Wow, my condolences to the PA families. LOL That's very intrusive and doesn't even give the information that is truly important. I'm curious, are public school teachers required to keep the same logs? How do folks know that they're getting their tax dollars' worth if not? (Asked with a big ol' eyeroll...)

[creekland]

Wow, my condolences to the PA families. LOL That's very intrusive and doesn't even give the information that is truly important. I'm curious, are public school teachers required to keep the same logs? How do folks know that they're getting their tax dollars' worth if not? (Asked with a big ol' eyeroll...)

 

Yes, in the high school each teacher has to file plans with what is planned each day for each class and exactly what (state) standard(s) that lesson meets. They also have to keep a folder for each student with samples of their work. Teachers get in trouble if these are not filed and kept (both of the above).

 

I'm still not certain we're getting our tax $$ worth, but yes they have to keep similar logs.

[6packofun]

That's very interesting! Thank you.

[JoyfulMama]

Let's see if I remember how to attach a picture, lol!

Okay, cool!

I don't remember if I got the template from askpauline (maybe she'll chime in if she recognizes it) or Donna Young.

I have 2 portfolios going this year, but my kids have a fairly regular routine that they stick to, so it doesn't get overly crazy if I need to backtrack a few days. Ask me again next year, when I have 3 going!!!!

 

Thank you!

I'm thinking I can make a checklist with the primary resources of the student, and then include the additional resources log that I usually include, too. We're not school-at-home, so this really irks me. But it's something that I can put together pretty easily, and should be pretty easy to fill in.

[happypamama]

While we're on the subject, do y'all include authors/publishers with your book titles, or just the titles?

[NanceXToo]

While we're on the subject, do y'all include authors/publishers with your book titles, or just the titles?

 

No, just the titles!! The law ONLY requires that it be designated by title, so don't cause yourself more work than necessary. :)

[MommyOwl]

To-date, our school district has been homeschool friendly. My "attendance" log is just a chart of 180 dates. I also include a list of curriculum materials used and a list of books read. For my own peace of mind, I started including a very short summary of each subject. The district never asked for more information. And of course a small sampling of work from every subject is included in the portfolio along with any required test scores. Thankfully, our district makes homeschooling in PA very easy and we've had no problems over the years.

[creekland]

While we're on the subject, do y'all include authors/publishers with your book titles, or just the titles?

 

We do titles and authors because I want my boys to know the authors and colleges might want that later on (we're high school, so are also saving each year from 9 - 12 in case they are needed). I don't give a hoot about publishers.

[JoyfulMama]

To-date, our school district has been homeschool friendly. My "attendance" log is just a chart of 180 dates. I also include a list of curriculum materials used and a list of books read. For my own peace of mind, I started including a very short summary of each subject. The district never asked for more information. And of course a small sampling of work from every subject is included in the portfolio along with any required test scores. Thankfully, our district makes homeschooling in PA very easy and we've had no problems over the years.

Just sayin' :seeya:!

 

While we're on the subject, do y'all include authors/publishers with your book titles, or just the titles?

I include authors. I never thought of NOT including them, honestly.

[NanceXToo]

I include authors. I never thought of NOT including them, honestly.

 

I may start doing so in the high school years when I will want to keep good records of everything in general but I haven't bothered for 3rd, 4th, and 5th grades so far!

[Carrie12345]

I may start doing so in the high school years when I will want to keep good records of everything in general but I haven't bothered for 3rd, 4th, and 5th grades so far!

:iagree:

As I'm facing high school with ds, I figure I'm going to start keeping two sets of books, so to speak ;). One for the district, and one for home/college.

[NanceXToo]

:iagree:

As I'm facing high school with ds, I figure I'm going to start keeping two sets of books, so to speak ;). One for the district, and one for home/college.

 

Yep. I think PA Home Ed Law is too intrusive to begin with. And some PA districts, including mine, have been known to ask for things that we are not legally required by law to give them. I don't like that. In most cases, I give them the minimum I HAVE to give them by law and have no intentions of "over-complying." All that accomplishes is giving them even more of a sense of entitlement, whereas I'd rather they just butt out. :P

 

(NOTE: Where I make an exception is with a "Summary"- I do provide a "Summary" with my portfolio each year, where I briefly explain what we did for each "required subject" that year- but I only do that so that they will not hassle me about submitting a minimal number of "samples").

 

College is different- if my child WANTS to go to college, then we will do what we need to do to ensure that can happen and will hand those records over willingly.

 

But right now? If we have to provide "A" to the school district, they'll get "A" but I'll be darned if I'm going to give them "B" and "C" too! I have to write out or type up the titles of all our books but I don't have to waste my time typing/writing all the authors names, too (and we read a LOT of books so that WOULD be a lot of extra writing/typing, not to mention extra printer ink and paper)!

[happypamama]

Thanks, everyone. I think I will be fine to include just the titles, though I definitely see the point about at least keeping track of titles for high school students for college (not there yet!). I was only thinking about publisher for things like math books, but I agree with not giving them more than the law strictly requires. My evaluator says 3-5 samples of work per subject, preferably spread out throughout the year, so that's what I'm planning to do. It is really ridiculous, all this jumping through hoops just to prove that our kids actually learned something!