desperately need advice (long)

[persephone43]

We are new to homeschooling and there is a long list of reasons that I pulled my ds 10 out of ps.

 

#1 we moved to a new town and i am now able to stay home and not work. I decided to go back to school full-time and am doing online classes and had some time freed up.

#2 my son is did 1st grade twice, is now in 3rd and was failing miserably in every subject. He used to be good at math but fell way behind in that area too last year and after taking the MM placement tests, is in 2A and does not have basic math facts memorized. He is reading at about a late 2nd, early 3rd grade level but very very slow. So slow that he cant comprehend most of it. But he actually is pretty good at comprehension when I read aloud to him. His spelling is horrid.

#3 He still has seperation anxiety at school and says he uncontrolabely daydreams a lot of being at home and missing his parents. This improved a little near the end but got replaced with daydreams about skateboarding and bmx racing.

#4 He has very low self-esteem and gets easily frustrated and embarrased when he doesn understand something that other kids get with ease. (other kids that are clearly a year or so younger than him).

#5 He cant seem to focus and gets distracted easily.

 

We went through counseling at school and privately as well as taking advantage of the free reading tutors and afterschool programs offered by our ps system. None of these helped. The school thought maybe he had a learning disability but then changed their minds and said it was a lack of motivation and then changed their mind again but by the time they were going to get him free testing for that, we moved.

He was very excited initially at the thought of being homeschooled but since we started, he has changed his tune.

 

So, currently: we started January 3rd and Ive tried to give him some time to de-school. We started with only read alouds and practicing math facts, while adding a new peice of cirriculum every couple of days. We live in a house with a four year old and had some initial distractions, which are slowly improving. But because of that, we mostly do school in my bedroom where it is quieter. At his request, we went to the library today to do school and had a horrible time because he would totally loose focus when someone walked by and then he just got mad and silently refused to cooperate.

I think he just does not like school. He tries to put it off by saying he has to go to the bathroom right when we are starting or saying he misses his dad and wants to call him, or wont get out of bed when I tell him to get up or any other thing he can think of to not start on time. When we do start, he is fine and happy one moment, then at some point gets frustrated and just puts his head on the table and refuses to move until I make him sit up straight. (did I mention he is the most moody kid on the planet?!) When i have him answer a question or read aloud to me, he mumbles so badly that I cant even understand him. Even when we revisit math concepts that he has been doing for over a year, he says he doesnt understand them, so his retention is very poor. He just keeps saying that he is stupid. I know that is far from the truth because when it comes to science, he understands very difficult concepts and explainations and retains that information perfectly. If he had his way we would do science all day.

When we arent doing school, I ask him for input on how to make it more fun or easier for him to understand and he says its fine the way it is. Im so frustrated and dont want to yell at him, because that just makes him cry and freeze up even more. Im now saying no xbox, no tv if he isnt going to at least try. Thats not been too effective either. I think he really has trouble controling his moods and doesnt have the mental space when he is in the moment to think about consequences.

I cannot put him back in ps. The schools are even harder in the area that we moved and he is not at all ready for that. I had hoped to keep him home for a couple of years to do remedial work with him and get him caught up but he refuses to even try. Im at my ropes end.

Thank you for listening. I know it was a long rant.

[trying my best]

Oh boy! you have a tough start on your hands :grouphug:

Everything can be corrected with right tools. Try a lot of stuff and methods. Something eventually will work for both of you.

 

Loosing focus:

this is what stocked in our family: math time focus - we start a game that he needs to think FAST. When he think FAST he gets a penny for the right answer. When he tries hard doing it fast and when hey gets it right i cheer like crazy for him. That way i boost his self esteem, make him know that i am cheering for him, he gets rewarded for his try.

 

Also raising against clock game would work good too!

 

Reading: "show me how you can read FASTER game" After every 2-3 sentences ask him questions without him looking in the book.

 

At first try to do school as short as possible - maybe 10-15 mins per subject. Let him love school time. Make it easy to boost his confidence.

 

For math i would suggest no new info at first - just repeat what he knows already :)

Have lots of manipulative supplies. He may be confused because of lack of understanding. RightStart Math has good visual tools. Your son might be Visual (and touchy) learner.

 

For reading, try to back up a level and make sure he reads that with confidence. Speed will come later. Practice every day.

Edited January 18, 2011 by trying my best

[PeterPan]

Rachel, I'd head over to the special needs board and start doing some reading. All those things you're describing have names, and you can find help. Yes, he needs to be evaluated. Whether you go through the ps system or private is a $$ issue.

 

My dd used to mumble like that too... I had forgotten, now that she doesn't do it. Of course he doesn't like school; it's not going well for him. It's NOT your fault, but changing how you do things isn't going to solve it either. I mean there are changes you can make, but there are also things you're seeing that will benefit from outside help. You just have to work through the process and see what that outside help is. If he's ADD (the mind wandering), then there are meds and even just physical things you can do to help bring him in focus. OT (occupational therapy) and lots of sensory input can help. ADD is *not* ADHD that most people think of. ADD is inattentiveness and impulsivity, no hyperactivity. On the SN boards lizzybee has made posts with booklists and stuff to help you research.

[HS Mom in NC]

I've never deschooled since mine have been homeschooled all along, but Jan. 3-Jan 18th is not very long for de-schooling. I know people who have de-schooled for 6 months to a year before transitioning back to formal academics. They follow the child's interests and read aloud, do hands on projects, and go "in the field" to learn most of the day.

 

If you are looking for help memorizing math facts, try the Skip counting from CD from Math-U-See. It's worth its weight in gold. I highly recommend MUS for people who do not like math (students and parents.) It demonstrates every single concept concretely with a hands on manipulatives.

 

I would HIGHLY recommend a study of Thomas Edison for your son. Edison was treated badly at school by teachers and they considered him stupid. His mother homeschooled him following his interests and letting him learn on his own at a young age.

 

If Science is what he likes best, you can build unit studies around science and integrate subjects.

 

You can read aloud good biographies of scientists (this could also integrate History because Science and History have had a tremendous effect on each other) and find some way to use science projects and materials to learn and practice basic math skills. Writing could be centered around writing about what he learned about his favorite scientists or favorite science subjects or documenting and/or charting projects and discoveries. Get a copy of Blackline Maps of World History and you can integrate Geography based on the location and era the time and place of the scientist/discovery in very easily and relevantly.

 

 

Examples include:

 

General or multi-era-

A History of the Sciences by Stephen Mason

The Pleasure of Finding Things Out (Specifically the chapter called, "What is Science?") By Richard Feynman

History of the Catapult by William Gurstelle (complete with directions for tabletop models that shoot tennis balls.)

Books by David MacCauley:City (Ancient Rome) Pyramid, Mosque, Cathedral, Castle, Mill, etc. In each of them, Architecture, History, and a technology of the day are mixed into surprisingly interesting books.

 

Ancients-

Archimedes and the Door to Science by ?

Archimedes and His Wonderful Discoveries by Arthur Jonas

Galen and the Gateway to Medicine by Jeanne Bendick

The Librarian Who Measured Earth (I think that's what it was called.)

 

Medieval/Renaissance-

And Along Came Galileo by ?

Leonardo Da Vinci by Diane Stanely

Nicolas Copernicus: The Earth is a Planet by Dennis Fradin

Tycho

 

Modern-

Always Inventing: A Photo biography of Alexander Graham Bell by Tom Matthews

Inventing the Future: A Photo biography of Thomas Edison by Marfe Delano

George Washington Carver

Newton

Pasteur

Curie

Einstein

 

There are endless possibilities.

 

Attention spans are developed. There are plenty of games that can be played teaching a child to pay attention with his eyes and his ears.

 

A. Get a variety of beautiful and interesting illustrations or piece of art and select one to be studied by the child for a short time (maybe 30 seconds.) Put it out of view and ask questions like:

1. What objects were in it?

2. What colors were in it?

3. What people were in it?

4. Describe everything you can remember.

5. More questions appropriate to the image being used.

Put it back in view for another 30 seconds and ask similar questions. Repeat if the child is willing if there are more details he missed. Over time this gets easier for the child. Ask him what he does or doesn't like about the image.

 

B. Get a large tray and place small familiar objects and toys on it. The better your child gets at this game, the more you will put on the tray. Let the child study it for a short time. Put it out of view and ask the child to list the items he remembers. Repeat as seems appropriate. As the child gets better, not only will he list the objects, he'll describe their details too (color, texture, etc.)

 

C. Narration is good for paying attention with your ears.

1. Start short-you may need to start with 1 sentence at a time. Make it a sentence that is of interest to your child. Have the child repeat what you said in his own words. You may need to repeat it at first. Let your child gain confidence before moving on.

2. Increase the length as your child masters smaller sections. Move to a few sentences, then a paragraph, then a few paragraphs, then a chapter, then a few chapters, then a book report. Expect this top develop slowly over time and do not rush to the next phase until the child mastered the phase he's in with ease.

 

Read aloud wonderful, fascinating literature. (Narnia, Little Britches,Classics, etc.) Let him sit and tinker with whatever quiet toys interest him (Legos, Kinex, paints, clay, wood carving, etc.) and read to him and the other children (who can also play quietly) a great work for at least an hour a day. Nothing builds the mind like great literature. Always stop at an interesting part where the child wants to know more about what is going to happen.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Homeschool Mom in AZ
accidently cut a parapgraph

[Ritsumei]

Rachel, I'd head over to the special needs board and start doing some reading. All those things you're describing have names, and you can find help. Yes, he needs to be evaluated. Whether you go through the ps system or private is a $$ issue.

 

:iagree::iagree: I used to work with special needs kids, and I absolutely agree.

 

So, currently: we started January 3rd and Ive tried to give him some time to de-school. We started with only read alouds and practicing math facts, while adding a new peice of cirriculum every couple of days. ...we went to the library today to do school and had a horrible time because he would totally loose focus when someone walked by and then he just got mad and silently refused to cooperate.

 

 

I have never pulled someone from ps, but I have repeatedly read that "deschooling" takes time. The number that stuck with me was a month for every year of ps. Now, I wouldn't be comfortable with letting him just sit for 4 months, but I would probably go ahead & give him a whole month, then start introducing things a little at a time, with maybe a week or two between each addition. If I (or my DH) got stressed about how much time off that is, I'd simply plan to do some summer work, and catch up later.

 

I know there are a lot of folks very touchy about it, but the destractability you describe reminds me of my siblings, several of whom have ADHD/ADD to varying degrees. My parents eventually realized that sitting in the front of the room, my one sister is an A-B student, but in the back of the room, her grades are dismal. Several are or were on meds too, which when used correctly can be a HUGE benefit for the child and the family. I mention it mostly because knowing the cause of the distractability can help you, as a parent, know what to do to help. I recommend reading "Transforming the Difficult Child: the nurtured heart approach." There's an excerpt here. Although the book is written with ADHD children in mind, the ideas are awesome for all sorts of kids.

 

 

 

I think he just does not like school.

 

Of course he doesn't like it! Thus far, his experience as you described it has been one of repeated failure, poor kid! His experience has taught him that he's a failure, and the other children were probably happy to remind him of that. No matter how vigilant teachers & school staff are, they don't hear everything; bullying happens. The challenge now is to find ways to set him up for some successes, which will begin to undo some of that "I'm a failure there's no point in trying" that you're seeing. This is hard. If you are a praying woman, I'd make it a matter of prayer. Then, I'd go to work on some observing/detective work. What does he LIKE to do? Are you or your DH the sort that like to build things? Get him a project, preferably something that ends in something he can see, touch, and hold, that will say to him, "I did this." Woodworking, sewing, gardening, miniature painting are some things we do around our house. Art, photography, cooking, that sort of thing. Learn it with him, if necessary. Let him see you fail & keep trying. Then, I'd look for games. Board games, roll playing games, even carefully selected computer games, that build skills. I used to love number munchers in school, and never cared that I was also practicing math facts. Roll-playing games require math, reading, logic, imagination, and if you play the table-top war games, they can provide the hands-on success project as well. There are lots of online tutorials on how to paint a mini. Watch them together, then try it out together. (Buy good paintbrushes. They're expensive, but worth the investment.

 

A month or 6 weeks from now, start adding things that look more school-ish. But add them at an easy level, so he has success right off. If he asks, tell him you wanted to review, or take the blame yourself: "I wasn't exactly sure how to choose, I've never done this before. So we'll do the easy stuff first, and then move into new areas." Let him see you're not always certain, but you act anyway.

 

 

 

He tries to put it off by saying he has to go to the bathroom right when we are starting or saying he misses his dad and wants to call him, or wont get out of bed when I tell him to get up or any other thing he can think of to not start on time. When we do start, he is fine and happy one moment, then at some point gets frustrated and just puts his head on the table and refuses to move until I make him sit up straight.

Reward the behavior you want, ignore the rest as much as possible. Be as emotionally flat & matter-of-fact as you can manage (which is a skill you may need to develop: it does get easier with practice). Use sticker charts, point he can exchange for money, extra privileges, xbox minutes, etc., experiment to see what motivates. And if you have to issue a consequence, just do it, don't tell him it's going to happen 20 times. Do it & get it over with & then let it be past & forgotten when it's over. Don't give the negative stuff any more attention or energy than absolutely necessary - but find ways to genuinely complement and reward the positive. It's a huge shift in thinking for a lot of people, but it works. And, it's a learnable skill which does get easier with practice. Edited January 18, 2011 by Ritsumei

[Rosie_0801]

How's his diet? That makes a big difference too.

 

 

Rosie

[PeterPan]

While you're in this deschooling phase, I'd use the time to make tracks on evaluations. Don't just take time off and expect things will change. If a dc has problems, time off doesn't change that.

 

Use this time to take trips to the education store, the library, etc. and see what turns him on. Educational play is just as important as bookwork, because it builds skills. Puzzles, building materials (kapla blocks, legos, knex, etc.), handicrafts, anything like that he likes are worthwhile. When you find his interests like this, you're finding the portals into his brain, the things you can do in-between the hard stuff, etc.. So right now I have my dd doing math pages (as we speak!), and between each math page she plays with Pop-Arty beads for a few minutes. Art is her portal, her thing. As you read about ADD and other issues he may have going on, you'll read about sensory processing. You can use this time now to build up a stash of sensory things he likes to do, which again you can use between subjects and to help him get ready to go back to work. We have a mini-trampoline, outdoor single line swing, fuzzy/furry ball, things with weights, all kinds of stuff. Work on getting into a routine, so you can notice if he has high and low energy times during the day. How long does he take to wake up in the morning? Does he perk right up, or does he need a while before he's ready to work? This is valuable information that will help you figure out how to order your day. Took me quite a while to figure out that putting the hardest subject first (math) didn't make sense if dd is slow to wake up and needs a couple hours to come into her own. Seems obvious in retrospect, eh?

 

So use this time to study him.

[persephone43]

Thank you all so much for your advice! Im having so much fun reading through all of the ideas you have suggested!

 

I think Im just going to redefine "deschool" and slow down and make it lighter and more fun for awhile. I think I had intended to do that in the beginning but lost sight of that goal becuase I was worried that in comparison to the time he spent on his subjects everyday in ps, that we weren't doing enough school. Which is rididculous because most of what drew me to homeschooling in the beginning is that we could take our time, begin where he is comfortable and from there work for mastery and most importantly go at his pace instead of a classroom pace. Just needed to be reminded of that.

 

How does this sound:

Continue memorizing math facts and reading/spelling practice but make lessons shorter (10-15 minutes at a time).

Other than that just do read alouds together throughout the day at a comfortable pace. We could definitely learn history and cover literature this way. Maybe learn about some scientists and their life and work. It could possibly inspire him right? And maybe do these RA here and there, instead of fiting it into such and such time block, during "school hours".

Maybe also a weekly science project would help him "like school" more.

 

Does that still sound like too much? I tend to fall into the "over-do-it" camp, so I really dont know :D

 

And then if we still have problems, I will see about getting him tested.

 

Thank you all!

[PeterPan]

My dd's idea of the perfect school day?

9:00 origami

9:30-games

10:00-audiobook while playing Kapla blocks or wedgits

11:00-watch youtube videos of music, listen to samples on amazon, etc. (I'm a nut about this, we'll spend an hour looking up old show tunes, etc. Call it popular culture, history, hehe.)

11:30-lunch that she makes

12:00-ice skate or go to the park

2:00-science project

4:00-free time

 

Make some of those games at game time math games (addition war, subtraction war, etc.) and get in a little bit of writing with the science project. Done. If he doesn't like origami, insert something you like (guitar playing, singing together, morning workout exercises, whatever). Then I'd take a trip to the library and lure him with some books that don't require a lot of reading. I've had visiting non-reader boys go ga-ga over Usborne books. Anything with lots of pictures and minimal text. Has he done worthwhile comics like Calvin & Hobbes? Have you tried the easy reader section of your library? Have you put a bookshelf in his bathroom? The office supply sells clear ones you can screw into the wall. Or put a basket.

[Harriet Vane]

I think he needs an evaluation asap. :grouphug:

[lmrich]

Are you able, really able to relax with him and get to know him better... I only ask because the thought of deschooling would make me nutty. BUT I think this is what you both need. More time cuddled up on the couch reading books, more time playing games - sneak those math facts in, more time cooking together, more time doing science experiments, more time engaged in nature study. I think you are so worried (and I get that!) that you are having a hard time seeing what a great kid you have, get to know his strengths and focus on those. He hates school right now, that makes him feel bad, now you want to do that thing he hates now; just love him for who he is. You can make up this time over the summer if you have to.

 

I am telling you this and I very uptight when it comes to school work. I hear you and you have a right to be concerned, but your little boy just needs to feel secure right now. When he feels more secure he will be more willing to take chances.

[Corraleno]

Rachel, your post actually made me cry because I was exactly where you are when my DS was 10. He'd been left back a year because he didn't know his math facts and his spelling was way below grade level; he hated himself and school and said he was stupid and hopeless; he couldn't focus for more than 2 minutes at a time (unless he was building something!); and he had major anxiety issues. Oh, and he's brilliant at science and has understood abstract concepts and advanced material since he was a toddler; he was asking sophisticated questions about the nature of infinity at 5, but couldn't tell you what 4x7 was at 10.

 

So... what to do? First, I agree with everything OhElizabeth said. Get him tested and figure out what's going on; until you know what the problems are, you can't fix them. I can tell you what my son's issues are, since he and your son have so much in common, although many times things that "look" similar can have very different causes:

(1) Visual/spatial learner

(2) Dyslexic

(3) Sensory Processing Disorder (proprioceptive)

(4) Anxiety and inattention — both primarily as side-effects of SPD

(5) Slow processing speed and poor working memory (especially for verbal, as opposed to visual, information)

(6) Highly gifted

I highly recommend the book The Mislabeled Child by the Eides; they are neurologists who specialize in kids with multiple issues, including giftedness, and everyone I know who's read that book has had "light bulb" moments in practically every chapter.

 

As for school, if your son wants to do nothing but science for a while, I'd be inclined to let him. You can sneak in a lot of math and reading and even history just by casually discussing things. I also wouldn't hold him back in math just because of the math facts — understanding math conceptually and memorizing math facts use two different parts of the brain and often develop asynchronously. Let him use a chart or manipulatives or whatever he wants, and just play math games for a while.

 

Oh, and the most important thing I wanted to say is... this is not a crisis. Your son isn't broken, he's just a bit more complicated than most kids, and it may take a bit of time to figure him out and work out the best way to teach him. As for my DS? That anxious, failing, self-loathing 10 yo who couldn't divide 10 by 5 or read a book more difficult than Magic Treehouse? He's now almost 13, working his way through Prealgebra (and remembering most of his math facts), he reads books like Warfare in the Classical World for fun, he goes on paleontology digs with grad students and watches Teaching Company college lectures for history and science, and he loves homeschooling.

 

A few years from now, I bet you'll be sitting there answering someone else's desperate plea for help, saying " when my son was 10, I was exactly where you are now...."

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Jackie

Edited January 18, 2011 by Corraleno

[Corraleno]

I think he needs an evaluation asap. :grouphug:

:iagree:

And then if we still have problems, I will see about getting him tested.

I think every mom who has a kid like this will tell you the same thing: these "issues" won't go away on their own, because there's a neurological basis for them. It's not just a bad PS teacher, or the wrong curriculum, or the stress of moving. Ask every parent you know with a "quirky" kid what one thing they wish they could change, and 99% of them will say "I wish I'd gotten him tested and started intervention sooner."

 

Jackie

[PeterPan]

Just to back up what Jackie said, we should explain that the REASON you back off on academics (as in dump them) and just do enjoyable things together for a while is because the academics WON'T WORK when you aren't addressing the other stuff. You can work on math facts with drill sheets all you want, but you may make no progress. Or it may be that his version of progress is going to be the chinese water torture path: drip, drip, drip. I've done that thing of working on facts hard, thinking if we did it for a phase it would help. It DOES with some kids. But with this mix of kid it doesn't. That's why I suggested math games to you. Play addition war. Get "Train Ride to Europe" that was mentioned a while back. It has adding as the total their scores. Get some informal drip dripping that way. That's the good way to do it right now. Then you can get evaluated, see what you're dealing with, and find some good methods.

[PeterPan]

:iagree:

 

I think every mom who has a kid like this will tell you the same thing: these "issues" won't go away on their own, because there's a neurological basis for them. It's not just a bad PS teacher, or the wrong curriculum, or the stress of moving. Ask every parent you know with a "quirky" kid what one thing they wish they could change, and 99% of them will say "I wish I'd gotten him tested and started intervention sooner."

 

 

Oh yeah. :iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I wish the teacher who did our yearly reviews would have guessed that it was something in the *dc* not my good/bad teaching. I wish I would have realized sooner that it wasn't the curriculum but the dc. I wish I would have figured out that if 90% of other kids do or like or handle something and mine doesn't that it's a red flag. I wish I would have figured it out sooner. BTW, we were, a year ago, where you are now, with a 10 yo who was floundering in the sea of not-rights. A year later, with vision therapy, OT, and a lot of changes under our belts we're in a fabulously different position. It's not a death sentence, just realizing what your train ticket says. I wouldn't delay one minute. We can see it, his teachers saw it, and you're seeing it. Curriculum won't make it go away.

[Lovedtodeath]

Helping Children Overcome Learning Difficulties really helped us. We are still struggling, but it has helped. I had her evaluated and the Doc said mostly ADD and SPD, food allergies, farsightedness that is not bad enough for glasses, other visual issues that are not bad enough to do anything about... I used the visual exercises in that book.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Lovedtodeath
I posted before reading the other posts. I am printing this thread. We could use more help. :)

[NanceXToo]

I haven't read all the responses, but when I read about "deschooling" it said you should give your child ONE MONTH per YEAR OF SCHOOL to "deschool."

 

If your son was in, say, 5th grade- he needs five months of "deschooling."

 

Not two weeks (or whatever it's been since you pulled him out).

 

Honestly... can you just take the rest of the year "off" and by "off" I mean you "do school" in hands on, fun, creative ways... find out what he likes, what he's interested in, and then go with it! Maybe like a unit study type of approach... get books on that subject, videos on that subject, see if you can build something/make a craft/a recipe etc on that subject, go on a field trip based on that subject, sign up for an extracurricular class on that subject and so on. Let it take as long as it takes, whether that's an hour or a month, then go on to the next thing he wants.

 

In the meanwhile, bond. Develop your relationship. Talk. Laugh. Read together if he likes reading/being read to. Watch movies together. Play games together. Go for walks, do things around the house, ask questions, answer questions. Play.

 

I think maybe he needs a little more time. And if, during that time, you want to look into testing, or whatever you think he might need, go for it. But right now... math (or whatever) isn't going anywhere. Let it be hands on, real life, practical applications- forget about worksheets and textbooks for a while.

[lamamaloca]

I wouldn't wait on an evaluation. I would find out how to get one, whether private or through the public school, and deschool during that time.