Rev. Wright- not political. Believe it or not educational...

[battlemaiden]

I just heard Rev. Wright say during a speech broadcast on CNN that African Americans are right-brained.

 

:001_huh:

 

Is this an educational theory? For real?

 

Of all the educational materials I've come across I've never heard a racial component to right vs left brainedness (word?). But I'm not as well read as some of you.

 

Jo

 

Edit: Please, please, please don't make this political. He is a current news figure, he was giving a speech at an NAACP conference, and because of that I was exposed to an opinion of education that I never knew existed. That is why I bring this up.

[elbac]

My short answer, in the form of a question: So does that mean every Caucasian is left-brained? (which they aren't)

 

Out of curiosity, what was his point in suggesting that AA's are right-brained?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I just heard Rev. Wright say during a speech broadcast on CNN that African Americans are right-brained.

 

:001_huh:

 

Is this an educational theory? For real?

 

Of all the educational materials I've come across I've never heard a racial component to right vs left brainedness (word?). But I'm not as well read as some of you.

 

Jo

 

Edit: Please, please, please don't make this political. He is a current news figure, he was giving a speech at an NAACP conference, and because of that I was exposed to an opinion of education that I never knew existed. That is why I bring this up.

 

I've heard that, but in regard to learning styles. I've known some pretty analytical and mathematical (what I consider left-brained) black people, though. Maybe he meant a majority? Or culturally? It would be interesting to see the research. (He seems quite the academic, so I imagine his remarks have some basis is published research.)

[battlemaiden]

As the speech went on I became more befuddled.

 

He may have meant "the majority" but he said black people *are* right brained.

 

He was stating it in relation to "different is not deficient", which of course, as a homeschooler I celebrate! But it was directed at the current form of education of black children and how unfair the teaching methods are. He even mentioned that black children have a harder time sitting still in classrooms. So they were especially at a disadvantage.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

As the speech went on I became more befuddled.

 

He may have meant "the majority" but he said black people *are* right brained.

 

He was stating it in relation to "different is not deficient", which of course, as a homeschooler I celebrate! But it was directed at the current form of education of black children and how unfair the teaching methods are. He even mentioned that black children have a harder time sitting still in classrooms. So they were especially at a disadvantage.

 

Well, I think black *boys* have a harder time sitting still in a classroom. As do white boys, Asian boys, Native American boys, South American boys, etc. LOL

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Ok, he says that African American kids, like African kids, were found to have a right-brained, subject-oriented *learning style* vs. Euro-American and European kids who were found to have more propensity toward left-brain, object-oriented *learning styles*. This difference is, he says, attributed to the strong oral tradition in the African American community and indeed in African tradition. (I've heard (read?) that Native American children raised in traditional culture (or what's left of it) also tend to have this learning style.

 

He mentioned the researcher's name several times, but I missed it. Sorry 'bout that. He said the research is forty years old, so 1970-ish?

[battlemaiden]

Ok, he says that African American kids, like African kids, were found to have a right-brained, subject-oriented *learning style* vs. Euro-American and European kids who were found to have more propensity toward left-brain, object-oriented *learning styles*. This difference is, he says, attributed to the strong oral tradition in the African American community and indeed in African tradition. (I've heard (read?) that Native American children raised in traditional culture (or what's left of it) also tend to have this learning style.

 

He mentioned the researcher's name several times, but I missed it. Sorry 'bout that. He said the research is forty years old, so 1970-ish?

 

Thanks Pam. He must have mentioned the 40 yo research before I turned it on- and then I was putting the dinner on and saying a lot of, "shh. shh. I'm trying to hear this. shh."

 

Although he was referring to learning style, he still stated that African-American kids are right-brained. It seemed odd, don't you think? It was very assumptive and generalizing. I am particularly interested because my dh's field of work consists of the most left-brained of the left brained (those Nukes). And his last job in particular exposed him to the interview process for incoming wannabe nukes. The African American candidates beat the national demographics. It just seemed insulting to say they learn in right brained methods when those candidates went through the same learning methods as their non-AA peers.

 

Pam, I know you and your dh can attest to the leveling of the playing field when it comes to the military. And they certainly aren't changing their schools to accomodate the historically oral tradition of certain races.

 

Jo

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Thanks Pam. He must have mentioned the 40 yo research before I turned it on- and then I was putting the dinner on and saying a lot of, "shh. shh. I'm trying to hear this. shh."

 

Although he was referring to learning style, he still stated that African-American kids are right-brained. It seemed odd, don't you think? It was very assumptive and generalizing. I am particularly interested because my dh's field of work consists of the most left-brained of the left brained (those Nukes). And his last job in particular exposed him to the interview process for incoming wannabe nukes. The African American candidates beat the national demographics. It just seemed insulting to say they learn in right brained methods when those candidates went through the same learning methods as their non-AA peers.

 

Pam, I know you and your dh can attest to the leveling of the playing field when it comes to the military. And they certainly aren't changing their schools to accomodate the historically oral tradition of certain races.

 

Jo

 

I listened pretty closely for that, Jo, but I didn't hear him say it. I only heard "learning style" repeated a few times. But -- in my defense -- it was almost 2 AM! :D

 

I heard that part of it as "preachifying," which is how I describe preachers in the Southern tradition (and my tradition isn't AA, but the same cadences and phraseology abounds, just often from a different angle) who find a good horse to ride, linguistically, and sometimes lose the technicalities of the original words in making their points.

 

(And speaking of that tradition, I laughed literally out loud at the original uproar over the "chickens coming home to roost" sermon and how the d*mnation of the US was fast approaching and thought, "Man, I've been hearing that from literally dozens of white preachers all my life." And hearing the whole sermon, his point was more about not being at a place where one takes revenge, about how easy it is to be in that place, than about d*nmation and hellfire and woe.)

 

Oh, yes. I'm very grateful that my eldest kids have had the opportunity to grow up in the military. On so many levels, not a small part because it gave them a different view of race and ability and what it means to be part of the *whole* human race.

 

One thing I thought about with the "sitting still" business -- I remember seeing pictures of little black boys in church with mama. They must have managed to sit still in that setting, because mama would have, uh, *required* it. LOL And then I wondered again -- mind you, it was 2 AM and I have finals today, so I'm trying NOT to think or wonder, KWIM? -- if that might be part of it. That this is the POINT that Rev. Wright was trying to make, the point that the research was trying to make. Lots of the kids that were considered mentally handicapped (and he said it better, with acronyms that flowed and danced) and ADD were *learning* in the oral tradition, whilst the system that they integrated into, says he, thought the solution was more early reading, writing, and Ritalin. I can't say I competely disagree with him. My own dd, at first, did not learn so easily with an objective model. That came later. She developed, because of visual processing issues, her own subjective model, that is, she was for a time compensating enormously with auditory learning.

 

Isn't it possible that to maximize learning we need to try to accomodate as fully as we are able the strengths of a child? What if we know that a whole group of children learns *better* using a different model because of their acculturation? What does that mean for a school system?

 

While I celebrate the level field the military sorta forces, I wonder if more might be brought to that field by changes in our system of education. There's a huge onus on families to support the discipline that accompanies learning, of course, and for a great many children in poverty (of any race or ethnicity) there is so much catching up that must be done so early that the task is daunting, but isn't it worth trying to research these things and strive for a different way? I'm inclined to think it is. The status quo is leaving an awful lot of kids in the dirt.

 

I'm not much for how very young boys are taught by our school system, as I stated before. Might it not be such a bad idea to listen to research that, as Wright said, points out that "different" does not mean "deficient"? (Rhetorical question again, of course.)

 

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that bureaucratic, NEA-driven change is much better than the status quo. Classes are too large, teachers too overburdened, and there is so much broken about the system *as a whole* to effect such large-scale change even if it's evidence-based practice. (Heh. Yes, my finals start in two hours. :D) And what does that look like? Does it look like "separate but equal"? We know how well THAT turned out last time it was touted. *rolls eyes*

 

Looking to the schools that are NOT failing (San Miguel, Catalyst Charters in Chicago, for example) and seeing what they do maybe needs to be happening more. For those parents who have the option to home school, going that route.

 

Great discussion, Jo. I very much enjoyed hearing Wright's speech, and I might have skipped it had you not started this thread.

 

I'd love to hear those of you who aren't quite as, um, PALE as I am weigh in on this issue. It's all theory and speculation from my side of the table.

[Kimber]

I'd love to hear those of you who aren't quite as, um, PALE as I am weigh in on this issue. It's all theory and speculation from my side of the table.

 

Well, as one who is not so pale :), and as a parent of biracial children, I don't know. I hate to accept stereotypes simply because they are as easily used against a person as for a person.

 

However, here is my personal experience--

 

I am an African-American right-brained female who has an engineering degree. I married a left-brained engineer (he's exceptional at his job, me not so much) who is Caucasian. We have 4 children. Three of the four look more like me but seem to have personalities that are a blend of the personalities of my dh and myself.

 

However, we have one child that to risk being stereotypical myself, moves like Michael Jordan. To watch him move and play brings such unbelievable joy to his grandparents. He moves and acts with his whole body. He is a definite kinesthetic learner. He has many attributes that make me and my husband shake our heads going, "Where did he get that from?" The only TV he watches is cartoon educational stuff. The only church he's ever attended with any regularity is the one with the white pastor. The only home he's ever lived in is the one we've provided that definitely has my dh's personality embedded within. As well as my own, of course, but I'm an African American female who is also from Louisiana where the black culture is as French as it is black. (Can we say zydeco music and Cajun seasoning in every meal?) By this I mean, it's a whole different culture in and of itself.

 

Anyway, I say this to say my son was born with an extra helping of character, style, and sense of movement. He often talks in rhyme. He sings and dances when he's not talking to anyone. He can't keep still for more than a few minutes at a time.. Even his personal sense of style is different.

 

To sum it up, there might be something to it on an individual level. But culturally speaking it's not set in stone for everyone. I have 3 other kids who are much more alike, learning style-wise, than the fourth. I can't say they fit what Rev. Wright said at all.

[OnTheBrink]

I have a biracial (well, tri-racial, really: he's part Honduran, part German/Scottish, part African American) and he's left-handed, musically talented and artistically inclined, can debate and argue (rhetorically speaking) a snake out of it's skin and is as very tender-hearted. What "brain" does that make him? I can never keep left/right brain stuff straight.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I have a biracial (well, tri-racial, really: he's part Honduran, part German/Scottish, part African American) and he's left-handed, musically talented and artistically inclined, can debate and argue (rhetorically speaking) a snake out of it's skin and is as very tender-hearted. What "brain" does that make him? I can never keep left/right brain stuff straight.

 

Well, to be clear, he said right-brained *learning style*, not right-brained per se. :001_smile:

[Kimber]

Oh well, I still think it's too broad a statement. Most African Americans are biracial from the start. In Louisiana there is that 1/8th rule and all which was actually a law, I believe. So there is no one size fits all for African Americans.

 

However, there is sometimes an element of truth in these kids of statements. The tricky part is finding out which element. :001_huh:

[Kimber]

Also, do you have a link on the difference? I searched a little on the right brained vs left brained and in it they did cover learning style and said that right brained tend to learn more with the whole body as opposed to lecturing. From that, I got that they are somehow related.

 

Is there a link or book to learn more on the subject that actually makes the distinction between the two?

 

Interesting conversation,

 

Kimber

[mom2abcd]

I think it would be very hard to assess such a thing. Many African Americans are not of 100% African blood. Obama is half Caucasian and half AA. When Rev. Wright is pictured next to him, RW looks Caucasian!

 

I don't put a lot of stock in what Rev. Wright says, based on things he's said in the past. (And not at all because of his heritage, whatever that may be.)

[Reya]

I just heard Rev. Wright say during a speech broadcast on CNN that African Americans are right-brained.

 

 

All the "right brained"/"left brained" stuff is fake pop-psych nonsense with no neurological basis. (PLEASE don't say, "but I'm just sooo creative!" or whatever. "Brainedness" being flimflam doesn't affect the fact that different people have different strengths--especially if they have been taught at a young age that they can either have one or the other, not both.)

[mom31257]

My husband and I watched some of his speech late last night. My husband teaches at a public high school in our city that is 70% AA. He asked me the question, what does Rev. Wright want to be done about these differences?

 

Does he want segregated schools again, so that each can be taught their own cultural way? Even if they learn differently, America can't change to an oral society so that certain cultures won't be at a disadvantage if they have trouble reading. There are plenty of AA who read "objects" just fine. There are plenty of other races who have different learning styles.

 

He mentioned this morning that 11:00 on Sunday morning is the most segregated hour in America. I think that's because we are all different and have different styles of worship, which he kept saying last night. My church has a larger percentage of white, but quite a few blacks. I kept thinking about his talk last night about how whites clap on 1 & 3, while blacks clap on 2 & 4. Maybe that's why we segregate ourselves for church.

 

I heard him say this morning that his church feeds 5,000 homeless and poor each year. I couldn't help but think that if every church in America did that, the government probably wouldn't have to do so much for those people. Our church has a food bank, but there's probably more we could do. I want Christians to help fix the problems in this country, not start them or make them worse.

 

Amy of GA

11yo dd

4(almost 5)yo ds

[Jenny in Atl]

All the "right brained"/"left brained" stuff is fake pop-psych nonsense with no neurological basis. (PLEASE don't say, "but I'm just sooo creative!" or whatever. "Brainedness" being flimflam doesn't affect the fact that different people have different strengths--especially if they have been taught at a young age that they can either have one or the other, not both.)

 

I thought the new thing is multi-intelligences?

[Kimber]

He mentioned this morning that 11:00 on Sunday morning is the most segregated hour in America. I think that's because we are all different and have different styles of worship, which he kept saying last night. My church has a larger percentage of white, but quite a few blacks. I kept thinking about his talk last night about how whites clap on 1 & 3, while blacks clap on 2 & 4. Maybe that's why we segregate ourselves for church.

 

I truly miss Sunday morning in a black church. Worshiping at a church of a different culture is like having a family dinner but with someone else's recipes. It doesn't feel the same.

 

The Sunday morning segregation really isn't so much about segregation as it is about family and friends and relaxing--just being yourself. And since people of similar cultural backgrounds like those same "recipes" they tend to flock together. I just don't see this as an indication of prejudice, racism, or segregation.

 

My dh and I picked our church because it was a compromise to his Catholic upbringing and my Baptist upbringing. Race wasn't really an issue.

[Jenny in Atl]

The Sunday morning segregation really isn't so much about segregation as it is about family and friends and relaxing--just being yourself. And since people of similar cultural backgrounds like those same "recipes" they tend to flock together.

 

I always wonder where people like me, without a culture, go except to my moms. :001_huh:

[ravengal]

I didn't see the interview, but one man making blanket statements about an entire "race" of people disturbs me. What was his motivation, I wonder? Is he is attempting to explain away the achievement gap by claiming that AA children cannot learn effectively in environments designed for "left-brainers"? Where's Marva Collins when you need her?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I always wonder where people like me, without a culture, go except to my moms. :001_huh:

 

I know... and I can't even go to mom's. (I mean, I can, but not to find my culture.)

[Kay in Cal]

Though there are some churches that are multi-ethnic, and attract those who prefer multi-cultural worship.

 

I'm a young(ish) white female pastor who serves a multi-ethnic (about 50/50 caucasian/other) church. We have as many Africans (born in Ghana, Cote D'Ivoire, Cameroon and Kenya) as African-Americans. In my six years with this congregation, the church has been trending away from being an older all-white congregation to being a younger blended ethnic community. Our real growing edge is Iranian members, a lot of Farsi speakers in our area. I moved from Orange County, and I absolutely love the diversity--we have members who come from all over the world--17 countries of origin at last count. Now we are beginning a merger process with a nearby church--they are almost 100 percent older anglos, but the pastor there is African-American. He and I will be co-pastors together of our new larger church! He's excited about having a more diverse congregation, we're excited about having a more financially stable base, and both of us are excited about working together. As for brainedness--we haven't fully worked out job descriptions yet, but basically he's the planner/administrator type and I'm the preacher/evangelist.

 

So worshipping with those NOT like yourself can also be a great place of comfort.

[hana]

I don't have much to add to the conversation except to answer to the person who earlier didn't remember the name of the researcher. Two of the primary names I heard were Dr. Patricia Hill Collins, a sociologist from University of Maryland and Dr. Geneva Smitherman, a linguist from Michigan State University.

[Kimber]

So worshipping with those NOT like yourself can also be a great place of comfort.

 

I totally agree with you, Kate. I've been at this church for over 11 years. I love my church, and I have no plans to change regardless of the ethnicity of the pastor or the members. But I'm not there for the cultural part of it. That's not really necessary for me to worship and fellowship with other Christians.

[sweetbaby]

I usually don't get into political type talk but did anyone see Dr.Wright on cspan tonight? Really clarified a lot of media interpretations. I hadn't really followed everything closely but this was very compelling to watch.

[Plaid Dad]

All the "right brained"/"left brained" stuff is fake pop-psych nonsense with no neurological basis.

 

:iagree:

[hana]

Even though I said I had nothing to add, I do. I think that he constructs a great-sounding speech, but one that is easily unraveled. For example, his think about the 1/3 and 2/4 beats. For an example of the 2/4 beats, he used "Blessed Assurance." Well, the music to that hymn was written by a White woman, and the lyrics were written by another White woman. So while it may well be commonly used in Black churches, it's hardly an example of how Black and White music are different.

 

And I'm really annoyed at him for saying that attacks on him are really attacks on the Black church. Um, no.

 

Okay, I better stop.

[Reya]

I thought the new thing is multi-intelligences?

 

Yeah, that's the new fad, and that's JUST as nonsensical. I could call it "multiple dexterities", but that wouldn't make by ability at, say, math prove that I'm really a dexterous person even though I'm terrible at all ball games.

 

Playing with language to try to avoid the idea of intelligence as something discreet is as silly as confounding one's ability with languages with one's ability with music by calling it "linguistic musicality" or whatever. You can make up whatever name you want--but it doesn't make it real. :-/

[Laurie4b]

If the oral tradition is at issue, that is left-brained. The right side of the brain controls movement, visual-spatial perception,etc.

 

I have a child with very pronounced right side weakness, and left-side strength, as per neurological testing. He would fit perfectly into a culture with an oral tradition because he can remember almost everything he hears. He would be the village historian, story-teller. As it is, in an increasingly image-based (right side of the brain) society, it is challenging to make sure that he will have a place.

 

So if it is being said that right-brained is linked with oral tradition, that doesn't fit with what we know the sides of the brain control.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

So if it is being said that right-brained is linked with oral tradition, that doesn't fit with what we know the sides of the brain control.

 

Well, that's what *I* said because that's how I understood it, but it could be that this is not how it is at all. I'm fairly sure that I'm missing a good bit of the bigger picture of what he was trying to convey.