Spelling Hlep -- I mean Help

[zusjames]

My 9yo son is a third grader. We red-shirted him from the beginning.

 

He's an avid reader and seems to comprehend what he is reading quite well. For example, he is reading Sea Clocks right now and is loving it and tackled Dragonwings this fall. He is doing well in math (CLP Math 300) and is learning well in general. His handwriting is ok. Cursive is better than manuscript. He is doing great with WWE 2 (almost finished with it) and is doing great with CLP LA 300.

 

All that said, he cannot spell the simplest words. We are using Spelling Power because the pace for spelling in CLP LA was far past his abilities. Still, he is struggling. Does spelling just click with some kids much later than others? (My 7yo 2nd grader is often telling his older brother how to spell simple stuff. I'm concerned my Kindergartner will soon be piping in that he is misspelling Kindergarten words.)

 

We review quite often but what we just worked on, sometimes the previous day, is forgotten. Ugh. I don't know what to do. I've tried "fun" spelling, like dry erase makers and windows, spelling in sugar, spelling with toothpicks, chalk outside, cutting out letters, etc.

 

Don't good readers make good spellers? Is this just a boy thing? Do some kids NEVER get it?

 

Thanks in advance for any replies. And <drumroll, please> this is my FIRST post to a message board EVER! It only took me 10 minutes to find the new thread button. LOL!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Does he understand phonics? Can he explain the phonetic base for spelling most words - the ones that are not exceptions?

[zusjames]

Yes. I can walk him through a word, but he can rarely choose the right rule for the right word.

[Dana]

I really like All About Spelling. It has been clicking with my son and I've seen a lot of improvement in his spelling since using it.

[Liz CA]

Yes. I can walk him through a word, but he can rarely choose the right rule for the right word.

 

My son was in 5th grade and I often could not decipher his spelling. I did take him out of PS partly because of this concern. He read quite well but did not seem to retain the spelling of words. He is likely not as visual as I am since I only need to read a word and usually remember its spelling.

We used "Spelling Workout" - the books were ordered alphabetically, and it seemed they SLOWLY had an impact. Over the next years homeschooling, we kept at it and continued to read a lot. I am happy to say, his spelling has improved remarkably. I think it may be a learning type thing, a difference between visual, auditory and hands-on learners.

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

My 3rd grade son (turned 9 yesterday) cannot spell worth beans but is an incredible reader and has an insane vocabulary that he uses every day. Very verbal, but not visual. (FWIW, he isn't strong in math, either.)

[3lilreds in NC]

First, congratulations on figuring out how to post to a message board! You've opened a whole new world. :D Welcome!

 

Good readers do NOT necessarily make good spellers. My sister is a doctor. She is an avid reader like the rest of my family. She cannot spell to save her life. She won't let people read her lists when she, say, takes lunch orders at work because they will laugh at her spelling.

 

My dh is an engineer. He can't spell either. He's not as bad as my sister, but throws grammar challenges into the mix. He is an avid reader as well.

 

What I'm going to try for my spelling-challenged child is Charlotte Mason's method of spelling. Basically, you have your child study a sentence or paragraph (depending on their level; I would start with a sentence for your son). They read the selection carefully, noting the words they think will give them trouble. They can copy those out separately. They picture the words in their mind. After they've studied the selection, you dictate it to them. You can read a good explanation of the method here:

 

http://searchwarp.com/swa370079.htm

 

This CM quote describes my older daughter to a "t":

"Illiterate spelling is usually a sign of sparse reading; but, sometimes, of hasty reading without the habit of seeing the words that are skimmed over. "

 

Charlotte Mason The Original Homeschooling Series vol 1 pg 242~243

 

I tried All About Spelling (AAS) with my girls. It is the spelling program of *my* dreams but it didn't work out as well as I thought. I have one girl who would learn with anything. My other one was just not retaining any of the spelling rules. She can spell just fine while we're working on spelling, but when she tries to write things later, she doesn't apply what she's learned. That's what led me to try CM's spelling methods. The longer I homeschool, the more I think CM makes sense.

 

You can find a good CM spelling program at the Simply Charlotte Mason site. It's called Spelling Wisdom. Hope this helps!

[dcjlkplus3]

I think I would stick with Spelling Power, but maybe take a break from it for a little bit. They don't recommend it before 3rd grade, but maybe wait until you start 4th and them give the placement test again. In the meantime, I would just correct his spelling as needed in the rest of work, and remind him to ask you how to spell things if he is unsure about them.

[In the Rain]

Welcome to the board!:seeya:

 

My 9yo dd was the same way when she was 7 1/2. She could read on a 6th grade level, but would spell the as teh or maybe even eht. I'd ask her if it looked right and she might or might not be able to tell it was incorrect.

 

All About Spelling was the key to helping her figure it out. I think it was the steps of figuring out how many sounds there would be and pulling down a tile for each sound, in order. She "got it" and flew through the first two levels. The others have taken longer, and she just started level 5.

 

I don't know anything about Spelling Power. Maybe you can find a copy of AAS level 1 to look at. I would never have believed what a difference that teaching method would make for my dd.

[Margo out of lurking]

Don't good readers make good spellers? Is this just a boy thing? Do some kids NEVER get it?

 

 

Good readers are not necessarily good spellers; it's not just a boy thing. Some kids may never be fabulous spellers, but you don't have to worry about that yet. Reading and spelling are different skills. I agree with the previous poster who said you son may not have a clear understanding of phonics. He can decipher well (reading), but he does not know how to apply the rules (spelling). Some kids pick up on this with much less effort, which explains your second child and maybe your third.

 

Good for you for giving him lots of tactile exposure and trying to keep it fun! SP is great for reinforcing different learning strengths. However, imo, SP does a horrible job of explaining "rules," and the majority of its "exceptions" would be easily explained IF SP taught true phonics rules.

 

Are you looking for suggestions on what to do next? I'd consider how long he's been using SP. I believe it says that the earliest a child should begin SP is 3rd grade. You might want to give it more time, particularly if starting yet another new spelling curriculum would be difficult at this time.

 

Or you may want to look at switching again before he learns any bad habits or begins losing confidence. My kids used Spell to Write and Read with great success. It was my favorite elementary curriculum in any subject for several years. I usually hesitate to recommend it; I was able to watch it taught in a classroom for several months and always thought it would be hard to learn to teach by myself. But other moms seem to pick it up easily on their own.

 

What a blessing to be hsing so that you can find the best fit for your ds!

[LizzyBee]

My middle dd was like that. She remembered everything she read, but couldn't spell to save her life. I couldn't give her a spelling test because she would have a meltdown every time. By 9 yo, she would pull her hair and call herself stupid during spelling time.

 

I finally began to understand her when I heard Andrew Pudewa speak about spelling at the VA homeschool conference about 6 years ago. The reason good readers don't necessarily make good spellers is because visual input is stored in the brain randomly. Spelling is inherently a sequential activity; therefore; auditory input is necessary because auditory input is stored in the brain sequentially. My dd could choose all the right letters, but she couldn't put them in the right order for anything, even in a 3 or 4 letter word.

 

As time went on, we found that she is a strong visual-spatial learner (http://www.visualspatial.org), she has mild auditory processing disorder, and she doesn't hear the separate sounds in words. The dilemma was how to give a child with APD meaningful auditory input??? As time went on, dd was becoming more frustrated and I didn't know how to help her.

 

On a whim, I purchased Calvert Spelling 3 on CD used from someone on these boards. My dd cried through the first couple of lessons even though I held her on my lap and tried to comfort her. But before that first week was over, something clicked and spelling became her favorite subject. Calvert Spelling was like a magic pill for her.

 

I know it won't work for everyone, but I share this story often because Calvert Spelling is an inexpensive fix if it does work. DD is 14 now and goes to public high school. They recently had a spelling test in English and she had the highest score! She still sometimes reverses letters and uses non-existent phonograms (e.g. mountians), but she spells much better than I once thought she would.

[zusjames]

This is all such great info... if I could figure out how to quote and make specific remarks in a reasonable amount of time, I'd do that!

 

I'm going to look into some other spelling techniques. Like CM and AAS. I do like Spelling Power-- for the most part and am encouraged to hear that others (professionals) struggle in this arena and that they got through 3rd grade and even Chemistry 3! We've only been at this curriculum for this school year. So maybe I need to give it more time and retest at the end of the year.

 

Buying another curriculum is not what I want to do but spelling is important. Thanks so much for the input. I didn't even realize so many had replied until just now. Te he. :lol: I'm so green at this forum stuff. I'm hooked though!

 

Thanks again everyone!

[Mama Geek]

My dh has a master's degree in engineering and still has a hard time spelling. He is dyslexic. He has made some improvements with the help of spell check. It is something that underlines it the instant he makes the mistake. He absolutely hates the subject of spelling. It really hurt him from K to 12th grade. He did poorly in subjects other than spelling because teachers would lower his grade in subjects like science if the words were spelled incorrectly. Once he got into college it wasn't nearly as much of a problem. I did end up fixing a lot of spelling errors in his Master's thesis, but hey isn't that what wives are for?

 

He now types everything or if something has to be hand written I pretty much do it. Not being able to spell really isn't that big of a deal in this day and age.

[sibbis]

Grateful for this thread. My DD can read everything and sounds words out very well but her spelling frightens me! It's tough because I spell well very easily so it's a challenge to understand sometimes. "Why are all those extra letters in that word?"

 

Tried AAS and dumped it for now because of the reason listed below. Working on Spelling Workout but I can see how it might not stick. Will have to check out the CM resources.

 

She can spell just fine while we're working on spelling, but when she tries to write things later, she doesn't apply what she's learned.

 

 

My DD exactly!

[Lolly]

It is frustrating.:grouphug: Yes, usually good readers are good spellers. No, it is not always the case. Sometimes, no matter what program you use, they never become good spellers. All we can do is try. I've found that writing on a computer with spell check on is very helpful. Texting has really helped my nonspellers. 1. They care because their friends are going to see it. 2. It simply gives more time writing in a way that they really don't mind. Mostly, the only way to improve spelling is by writing. Practicing in isolation is not overly helpful.

[Mrs Mungo]

Does he understand phonics? Can he explain the phonetic base for spelling most words - the ones that are not exceptions?

 

I agree with this. SWB actually talks about a third/fourth grade slump for children who picked up reading quickly and live in highly literate households. Her theory is that they picked up reading without really learning *all* of the phonics rules that they need. I *think* she talks about this in the elementary writing lecture. You can see all of the lectures here.

[zusjames]

I agree with this. SWB actually talks about a third/fourth grade slump for children who picked up reading quickly and live in highly literate households. Her theory is that they picked up reading without really learning *all* of the phonics rules that they need. I *think* she talks about this in the elementary writing lecture. You can see all of the lectures here.

 

Great link. I'm learning about all the resources at my fingertips (literally) and this is another one. Thank you!