Logic Stage History WTM style scheduling question

[Carla]

I've been spending the last few months bending my mind around doing history with my logic stage boys using WTM as a guide. I've managed to visualize and implement a routine of reading Kingfisher, making lists of key facts, mapping, entering dates on timeline, outlining other sources and writing a weekly composition.

 

What I am having trouble with is having them do a notebook page on the great men and women SWB has listed, doing primary source study and how to insert this somewhere in the flow of read, list facts, map, timeline, read, outline, summarize.

 

Do you have them read about the great men/women and primary sources during the additional reading time? That would mean a great person to read about every week then (there are 51 great men/women in her list), and when do they select their own topics to read and outline? Never mind fitting in primary sources. Or is this on top of the Kingfisher and additional reading? :confused:

 

Thanks in advance.

 

ETA: We are beginning middle ages/early renaissance in January... if that makes a difference.

Edited December 4, 2010 by carlita

[Capt_Uhura]

I have the very same question. Also, in the notebook section there is a War, Politics and Conflicts. How do you decide what goes there? That wasn't clear to me in WTM2009.

 

Capt_Uhura

[Jen+4dc]

In addition to reading SOTW (our first hs history rotation, they started in ps), Kingfisher, listing important facts, map, timeline, outlining and rewriting from the outline this is what we do:

 

I'm just having my dc write 2 narrations a week on some of their other reading (library books and such). Then, they file those narrations in the proper section in the notebook.

 

For example, this week we talked about Alfred the Great & the Battle of Hastings (SOTW 2 Ch. 15 with all 4 dc then the olders do extra!) So, they would have had Alfred the Great, Harold Goodwin, William of Normandy (the Conqueror) and Edward the Confessor to go behind the Great Men/Women section of the notebook. They would also have the Battle of Hastings to put under Wars/Conflicts.

 

I require that all these things make it into the notebook, but only 2 of them are 1/2 page narrations. The others are just quick 2-3 sentences.

 

I don't have a primary source for each week so when a primary source comes up we just use it in place of the narrations that week. We still do the other 2-3 sentence entries behind the appropriate tabs, just not the longer narrations. And, we still do our outlining, timeline, imp. facts in a week with primary sources.

 

That's how I make it work, I hope it's somehow helpful to you. No, not every great man & woman listed in WTM are going to end up with a longer narration, but frankly, I just can't do it all! I pick and choose. Some weeks I specify which people/events they have to write a longer narration for and some weeks they choose, it depends on whether I think there's something that just can't be missed that week. For example, this week I insisted they write narrations on William the Conqueror and the Battle of Hastings because I felt like understanding the French/Norman influence that resulted from this is important to understanding some of the later wars between England and France (ie Henry V). But, other weeks the topics all seem pretty equal so I let the kids choose. It works for us.

 

HTH!:D

[mcconnellboys]

I think her intent was that you do some of them, not all of them....

[redsquirrel]

You cannot do all of them. No way.

 

We do history three times a week

 

#1) we read from the Kingfisher Book of Ancient times. This book matches up nicely with SOTW, which we are doing with younger brother. He writes down a list of 6 facts (about) from that reading. This goes into the Facts section of the history binder. (Insert a timline activity here. I am a very bad homeschooling mom and haven't got around to making the timeline. I swear I will before the year ends :blush: ) We also find the place on the globe.

 

#2) Here is where we might do a biography or something else. We are supposed to go to the library where he picks a book related to one of the facts he wrote down. Well, that ain't gonna happen. Instead I usually have a biograpy at the house or (more likely) I have him read some of Human Odyssey or another book related to the time/place. I have a lot of that at the house. He writes a narration and it goes in under whatever tab it seems to fit the best.

 

#3) I pick a section of the book we read for number 2 or a part of Human Odyssey that is approx 250 words long and we outline it together. I have him read it paragraph by paragraph and he tells me the main idea. He then writes it as a one point outline. This is filed in the 'outline' section of the history binder.

 

Day 2 is when we do the biography or whatever extra reading. We also do activities, reading from SOTW with younger brother.

[Chris in VA]

I agree that you don't do all of them.

I also use history to do other subjects (writing, for one), so I justify spending more than 3 hours a week on it.

[Jamee]

Very helpful, since I have the same question. Does anyone have a schedule for the year to get it done in a year? I was hoping to start Middle Ages this year, but we're still trying to get through Ancients. I'm going to shake things up after the Christmas break and goe the WTM way for logic history, but still use SOTW.

[redsquirrel]

Very helpful, since I have the same question. Does anyone have a schedule for the year to get it done in a year? I was hoping to start Middle Ages this year, but we're still trying to get through Ancients. I'm going to shake things up after the Christmas break and goe the WTM way for logic history, but still use SOTW.

 

I am not clear about your question. When you say 'get it done in a year' do you mean get it done in a school year? Or do you mean 12 months.

 

I have got through SOTW every school year. I just look at the table of contents and see how many chapters there are and figure out how to put that into the number of weeks we are chosing to school for the year. I let the kids keep books etc about topics they love. We will read about the Greeks and Romans for months and months but I am movin' on in history.

[Jamee]

I am not clear about your question. When you say 'get it done in a year' do you mean get it done in a school year? Or do you mean 12 months.

 

I have got through SOTW every school year. I just look at the table of contents and see how many chapters there are and figure out how to put that into the number of weeks we are chosing to school for the year. I let the kids keep books etc about topics they love. We will read about the Greeks and Romans for months and months but I am movin' on in history.

 

 

Yes, a school year. I think since DS is older and has a new found love for history--having gotten no history in PS--he's gone more indepth to many of the subjects. We barely get through a chapter a week with all the "extras" we've added: reading, projects, ooks, biographies, etc. We're getting faster, but it's still not as smooth as I was hoping it'd be.

[Jamee]

Very helpful, since I have the same question. Does anyone have a schedule for the year to get it done in a year? I was hoping to start Middle Ages this year, but we're still trying to get through Ancients. I'm going to shake things up after the Christmas break and goe the WTM way for logic history, but still use SOTW.

 

I'm referring to a WTM logic schedule here.

[redsquirrel]

If he is LOVING history and wants to wallow, and this is his first time through then I say let him wallow. You can skip a week (or two) and let him spend more time on something else and it will be ok.

 

I found that the first two years of the 4 year history cycle are just more interesting. The activities are more fun, the books are more plentiful, the history just seems more fun. It was harder to get that all done. However, in year 3 and 4 the books got longer so there you have it.

 

With my 5th grader, we created a parallel history class. It consists of reading and writing on the subjects that he loves. My son adores mythology. He was so looking forward to returning to ancient history because of all the mythology. So, I have four 8 week 'units' of deeper reading. He asked to cover Egypt, Old Testament, Greeks, and Romans. He is reading and writing three or four days a week on this topic in addition to the reading and writing he is doing for history. We spend most time reading the actual myths with some extra history mixed in.

 

This allows him to wallow in what he loves but allows us to cover all the history.

 

I am pretty sure this isn't helpful, lol.

 

If you are looking for "does anyone have a written schedule for me to follow for SOTW year 2 with a logic age child" then I have just totally wasted your time. You might want to look at something like Pandia Press, History Odyssey. They have a weekly schedule and assigned readings etc.

[MamaT]

We do history four days a week. The first day we read Kingfisher and sometimes Story of the Middle Ages, along with outlining. The second we read from Famous Men, and the third day we read from The Cultural Atlas for Young People, do our mapwork from Map Trek, and our timeline. The fourth day they have a writing assignment. Our notebook has sections for maps and writing, along with their reading schedules by week. They are always reading from a historical fiction book, a biography, and one extra resource. I have two schedules made - one for my younger logic stage and one for my older (8th grade) logic stage children. We are also doing Middle Ages/Renaissance and Reformation this year. I would be happy to share my schedules if you will pm me.

[swimmermom3]

I am hoping that Nicole M. joins this thread because we had this discussion last year about the notebook pages and how resistant our boys were to doing them. I know there were a couple of other board members whose dc (usually boys) loathed the notebook pages. One option Nicole came up with was to print out note cards using the figures from Amy Pak's Timeline Figures. The picture of the famous person or event would be on the front of the 4 x 6 card with the name. On the back the student writes a few notes about the topic. Instead of a notebook our boys would never look back over willingly (that's just our guys), you have cards to review from or if you don't put the dates on the front, the student can see if they can order them in the correct time sequence. We make it a game here and it is more of an active mode of learning than the notebook pages are for us. You could make it do double duty and replace your timeline if that's not getting done.:D

Edited December 5, 2010 by swimmermom3

[Carla]

I am hoping that Nicole M. joins this thread because we had this discussion last year about the notebook pages and how resistant our boys were to doing them. I know there were a couple of other board members whose dc (usually boys) loathed the notebook pages. One option Nicole came up with was to print out note cards using the figures from Amy Pak's Timeline Figures. The picture of the famous person or event would be on the front of the 4 x 6 card with the name. On the back the student writes a few notes about the topic. Instead of a notebook our boys would never look back over willing (that's just our guys), you have cards to review from or if you don't put the dates on the front, the student can see if they can order them in the correct time sequence. We make it a game here and it is more of an active mode of learning than the notebook pages are for us. You could make it do double duty and replace your timeline if that's not getting done.:D

 

This is brilliant. Only, I JUST got both boys timelines we are going to (hopefully) stick with. (This time we will, we will, we will!!) I really want to use this idea too, though! :lol: Thanks for sharing!

[Carla]

 

I require that all these things make it into the notebook, but only 2 of them are 1/2 page narrations. The others are just quick 2-3 sentences.

 

I don't have a primary source for each week so when a primary source comes up we just use it in place of the narrations that week. We still do the other 2-3 sentence entries behind the appropriate tabs, just not the longer narrations. And, we still do our outlining, timeline, imp. facts in a week with primary sources.

 

 

HTH!:D

 

This makes sense, thanks!

[Carla]

I agree that you don't do all of them.

I also use history to do other subjects (writing, for one), so I justify spending more than 3 hours a week on it.

 

You cannot do all of them. No way.

 

 

 

I think her intent was that you do some of them, not all of them....

 

Oh good, this is what I was thinking. Thanks!

[Jamee]

This is brilliant. Only, I JUST got both boys timelines we are going to (hopefully) stick with. (This time we will, we will, we will!!) I really want to use this idea too, though! :lol: Thanks for sharing!

 

:iagree:We haven't done timelines yet, so this is a fantastic idea. The card would be something fun for him to use with his little brother too, they're always making up games.

[Jamee]

If he is LOVING history and wants to wallow, and this is his first time through then I say let him wallow. You can skip a week (or two) and let him spend more time on something else and it will be ok.

 

I found that the first two years of the 4 year history cycle are just more interesting. The activities are more fun, the books are more plentiful, the history just seems more fun. It was harder to get that all done. However, in year 3 and 4 the books got longer so there you have it.

 

With my 5th grader, we created a parallel history class. It consists of reading and writing on the subjects that he loves. My son adores mythology. He was so looking forward to returning to ancient history because of all the mythology. So, I have four 8 week 'units' of deeper reading. He asked to cover Egypt, Old Testament, Greeks, and Romans. He is reading and writing three or four days a week on this topic in addition to the reading and writing he is doing for history. We spend most time reading the actual myths with some extra history mixed in.

 

This allows him to wallow in what he loves but allows us to cover all the history.

 

I am pretty sure this isn't helpful, lol.

 

If you are looking for "does anyone have a written schedule for me to follow for SOTW year 2 with a logic age child" then I have just totally wasted your time. You might want to look at something like Pandia Press, History Odyssey. They have a weekly schedule and assigned readings etc.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions, they're very helpful! After following a couple of the threads suggested from this one, I checked out Pandia Press for the first time and think I might go that route. It looks really thourough and more structured for my liking.

 

As for schedule, I was looking for one that didn't use SOTW, but the Logic recommendations. Do you just work your way through the Kingfisher book?

[redsquirrel]

No. I use the ''Kingfisher book of the Ancient world" as my 'spine'. I have a younger child in Book 1 of SOTW and I do make the chapters 'match up'. They like to be doing the same thing every week. It works very well with the Kingfisher book. So, I am using the same schedule as SOTW but he doesn't read SOTW. Clear as mud, I am sure. I use the "Kingfisher book of the Ancient world" for the "make a list of 6 facts' exercise.

 

I use Useborne Internet Linked if I need a more 'encyclopedia' type of resource.

 

I use the K12 Human Odyssey book and the occasional Oxford World in Ancient Times for narration and outlining. I also toss in biographies and other books as needed and available.

[PenKase]

I'm hoping to hear of what you more experienced educators think of our logic stage history plans beginning in January:

 

Monday-

 

 

• Read/Listen to STOW-1 chapter (this is our first run through history and dd10 LOVES STOW - she'll rebel if I take it away )
  
• Prepare ½ page written narration/summary
  
• Map work: STOW or Map Trek map activity, find location on globe/atlas/wall map
  

 

Wednesday-

 

 

• Read 2 page spread from Usborne/Kingfisher Encyclopedia (leaning towards red Kingfisher or white Kingfisher once it arrives (just ordered it as I keep reading it's better to outline from))
  
• Make list of facts (to keep in notebook for reference/review, not necessarily to spring board other topics – don’t know how often I’ll to get to the library in time to check out additional topic related books)
  

 

Friday-

 

 

• Outlining from Kingfisher Ency or STOW (will probably have dd complete the Remedia Press outlining books before attempting outlining from readings)
  
• Additional reading/summary: primary source work OR Great Men and Women list
  
• Time line work
  

 

 

This is all my brain can reconcile doing for logic stage history at the moment. Since I too plan to implement writing across the curriculum, I anticipate history taking up a lot of space in our homeschool. We all enjoy history here so I don’t think the pill will be too hard to swallow for dd.

 

Comments/thoughts would be much appreciated?!?!

 

 

Tia

 

 

-Cassie

[mcconnellboys]

This sounds good, but unless you have a child who really loves writing, I'm not sure that I'd have them write a narration, a list of facts, and an outline each week on the same topic. If you want to pull different topics out of SOTW for the narration and outline, or alternate them, that might be better. Or if you want to have them write on one of the famous men/women you read about that week, etc., that might provide more variety....

 

Or I might have them writing on science one week and history the next, etc., to vary the writing up a bit....

[mcconnellboys]

Here's the schedule I used last year. The SOTW chapter is listed at the top of each week, along with the Kingfisher and Usborne pages we used that week:

 

http://greenapplesblush.blogspot.com/search/label/History?updated-max=2010-11-20T01%3A37%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=20

[PenKase]

This sounds good, but unless you have a child who really loves writing, I'm not sure that I'd have them write a narration, a list of facts, and an outline each week on the same topic. If you want to pull different topics out of SOTW for the narration and outline, or alternate them, that might be better. Or if you want to have them write on one of the famous men/women you read about that week, etc., that might provide more variety....

 

Or I might have them writing on science one week and history the next, etc., to vary the writing up a bit....

 

 

Thank you for your input!

 

By the time I got up this morning, I had already made some mental notes on how to change the proposed schedule a bit. You're right, dd would find it pointless to write about the same topic all week. Instead I'll only have her listen/read STOW, sans narration (I'll leave that to dd7) and have her do WTM prescribed history for the rest. That may prove more palatable. As I mentioned, I fear anarchy if I try to take STOW completely away from her. I still have some thinking to do. I just may throw in the towel and order History Odyssey Ancients 2 for this child. Sigh. My brain hurts trying to figure all this out!!

 

I'm heading over to see your blog entry. Thanks again!

 

ETA: I grazed over your schedule and it looks very thorough and well laid out. Awesome! I'll place it in my favorites for further review and reference. I'm somewhat drifting away from STOW for dd10 because I'm concerned it won't offer enough rigor in the long run. I want to make sure dd receives age level and skill level appropriate coursework. Also, I want to "settle" on a "system" that we will continue throughout the middle grades without a major overhaul. I don't want to suffer from "back to the drawing board" syndrome.

 

Also, could you share how you incorporated writing when you used this schedule?

 

TIA

Edited December 21, 2010 by PenKase

[Capt_Uhura]

Penkase - This was probably mentioned but just in case.....History Odyssey as a Try It Before You Buy It for each level. I think you get 10weeks of material so more than enough to know if it will work for your DD.

 

Capt_Uhura

[mcconnellboys]

Because Kingfisher is not good to use in outlining, I've had ds outlining from SOTW since fifth grade. He worked through the Remedia publications outlining during fifth grade, too, to help get him more comfortable with that. Some don't like those workbooks, however, and just use SWB's tapes on writing/outlining.

 

I have always selected topics for his writing in history each week, or given him choices of things he could work on.

 

Last, year, when he did Medieval studies, he chose to work on a longer research paper about Brian Boru (using Abeka's research writing chapter). He had already done an outline for it, note cards, etc. He then ended up portraying Boru at an end of semester Early Middle Ages Feaste and Faire that we held. He used his notes to transfer to notecards and gave an oral presentation on Boru. Then he got a chance in the spring to do 'A Walk Through History' competition and used that again (and won!) So I ended up modifying and didn't make him finish the paper in writing. I wanted him to work more on oral presentation skills, anyway, and was happy with the results of what had started out originally as an idea that he'd just do a book report....

 

In addition to just writing weekly reports, I also did quite a few lapbooks with him last year. He used mini-books to write paragraphs about a variety of associated topics and then we'd put those together into a larger lapbook. He displayed those as part of his Medieval projects, too.... This is the first time I've ever used those, but it did help to break up the writing and keep it fresh. I also had him working in a literary genres workbook last year that included several writing prompts for different types of writing.

 

This year, I have him in an outside literature class. They have been reading a variety of genres of books and discussing those in class. Sometimes they have vocabulary work to do regarding their readings; every week they have comprehension questions; and most weeks they have longer writing assignments, as well, which range from paragraphs addressing particular topics, to research papers, to oral presentations, to writing their own sci-fi stories. I'm trying to find ways to keep writing fresh each year.

 

He's still writing history papers for me at home, but these range from a short paragraph to 2-3 pages, depending on how interested and involved he gets in the topic while he's writing. Again, I try to vary those from book reports, to writing about famous people, artists, wars, etc. to keep it interesting for him.

 

He does also do some science related writing.

[PenKase]

Penkase - This was probably mentioned but just in case.....History Odyssey as a Try It Before You Buy It for each level. I think you get 10weeks of material so more than enough to know if it will work for your DD.

 

Yes, it's definitely one of the reasons why I'm considering it. I think I read somewhere that you were using it? If so, how is it working for you?

 

 

Regena-Writing at your house sound great! In my reading and research on these boards, I see there is no one way fits all mold in which to incorporate writing or any subject for that matter.

 

Currently we on holiday break (while I finalize our plans for the new year), but the dc are working on an Ancient Egypt lapbook. I have already seen the benefit of incorporating writing into this learning tool. Yes, I agree, it's a great way to have dd use the skill in a new format.

Edited December 22, 2010 by PenKase

[Stacy in NJ]

It does do things in a very WTM way. One problem we're experiencing, though, is that the daily scheduled lessons are so uneven. Some days they are quite simple and easy to complete; other days they are "overscheduled" - too many activities in a single lesson. I preview the lesson and divide it up or add to it if need be.

 

We used HO for a while and I really liked it. It was like having a WTM history and lit program with a daily schedule and written to the student. Actually, that is exactly what it is. My only issue is that I don't like VanLoon book very much. At the beginning of this year I went through and subbed in SOTW for those readings.

[PenKase]

We used HO for a while and I really liked it. It was like having a WTM history and lit program with a daily schedule and written to the student. Actually, that is exactly what it is. My only issue is that I don't like VanLoon book very much. At the beginning of this year I went through and subbed in SOTW for those readings.

 

Yeah, I also lean towards using STOW with HO. Since this is the first time we're running though STOW, and dd really, really, really LOVES it (heck, I love it!), I want to incorporate it into our history studies.

 

 

 

It does do things in a very WTM way. One problem we're experiencing, though, is that the daily scheduled lessons are so uneven. Some days they are quite simple and easy to complete; other days they are "overscheduled" - too many activities in a single lesson. I preview the lesson and divide it up or add to it if need be.

 

Good to know! I'm seriously leaning towards using HO next semester and will look for this.

 

 

 

I like that HO is already done for me and I don't have to think about how to schedule it. With this being our first year homeschooling, with two students to teach, and while I'm enthralled with doing history the WTM way, I also find it somewhat overwhelming and therefore get a bit intimidated and feel like I won't be able to cover it all. Yes, I suffer from perfectionism. Can you tell? That subject can definitely be saved for another thread. But, I also think the independent work of HO will be good for dd. Coming out of ps, she needs to work on this skill wherever necessary.

[keptwoman]

If he is LOVING history and wants to wallow, and this is his first time through then I say let him wallow. You can skip a week (or two) and let him spend more time on something else and it will be ok.

I agree, if he is wallowing and learning more deeply then I wouldn't even bother scheduling. Sure you'll miss some stuff, but you would have only skimmed it anyway, so enjoy the depth.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions, they're very helpful! After following a couple of the threads suggested from this one, I checked out Pandia Press for the first time and think I might go that route. It looks really thourough and more structured for my liking.

 

As for schedule, I was looking for one that didn't use SOTW, but the Logic recommendations. Do you just work your way through the Kingfisher book?

FWIW We used HO with J, and it was not a winner. It sucked the joy out of history. I guess since my main aim for history to be fun, it probably was not the best choice. The aim of the author is to schedule TWTM history, and she does it really well and I LOVE her book selections. But it was just too much writing for us.

[Jamee]

FWIW We used HO with J, and it was not a winner. It sucked the joy out of history. I guess since my main aim for history to be fun, it probably was not the best choice. The aim of the author is to schedule TWTM history, and she does it really well and I LOVE her book selections. But it was just too much writing for us.

 

That was actually one of the reasons I am drawn to it. We started just before the break and he's finished two units so far to warm up before beginning the Romans next week. I see more of the writing as getting them ready for note taking at the higher level. Learning to recognize what is important in what they read. My degree is in history, so maybe I'm just starnge that way. College for me, and even high school, was A LOT of reading and writing. I'd like to see DS become more comfortable with this type of writing.

[TechWife]

After following a couple of the threads suggested from this one, I checked out Pandia Press for the first time and think I might go that route. It looks really thourough and more structured for my liking.

 

As for schedule, I was looking for one that didn't use SOTW, but the Logic recommendations. Do you just work your way through the Kingfisher book?

 

I highly recommend the History Odyssey series from Pandia Press. This is our second year using it. Their Level 2 programs include a schedule for Kingfisher readings, but not SOTW. They use SOTW in Level 1 (if I remember correctly). We are doing Modern Times this year and it was relatively easy for me to sit down and correlate the KWH reading with the SOTW sections. I simply matched headings & dates, using KWH as the spine and filling SOTW in around it.