Can your children do WWE3 dictation at grade level?

[LNC]

My very bright 6th grade daughter has trouble with dictation. I have to read them 5-6 times before she can recite then write it. I can't even do them properly :). We are covering WWE 3 & 4 both this year, but I can't imagine an actual 3rd grader succeeding with this easily!

 

She did this one from Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde just now - but it was challenging. I read it 6 times instead of 3. But she got it!

 

Late one accursed night, I compounded the elements, watched them boil and smoke together in the glass, and then, with a strong glow of courage, drank the potion.

[robsiew]

Yes, my 3rd grader can do the dictation in WWE3, however I repeat it as many times as she needs. Also... watching this video changed my entire view of dictation. It does not need to be as cut a dry as it seems in the book. Now, I discuss the passage more with my kids prior to them writing and it goes much better!

 

 

 

I would have to say that this way of learning is a huge process! One that takes time and patience. I like to think of it as "training the brain". If your 6th grader has never been exposed to this way of thinking it will certainly take her time to train her brain to think this way.

 

This is our 2nd year of WWE (with my olders) and I can see SO much progress from when we first started (we started in WWE2 and my oldest is now about to start WWE4, my 3rd grader is now in the midst of WWE3). My children do not like dictation at all, however they are getting better and better at it. With gentle encouragement and me not stressing out if they can't get it "after only 3 times" they are really starting to be able to hold things in their head! I find most of their success (or lack of on "off" days) has to do with my attitude. If I am calm and reassuring, not pressuring them, they do really well... even on the harder dictations. I no longer tell them I will only read it 3 times.

 

Also... I've seen huge strides in their narrations. Both of my older 2 used to cry when asked to write anything. Now, both of them will write a page long narration of our history lesson without me telling them how long it has to be. There is also less time lapse between when I assign the writing (right after history) to when they actually put the pencil to paper and write (usually within 5 min. or so.... before my ds would sit for literally 30-60 min. and still not have anything down on the paper!). They are able to think through what they want to write and get it down so much better than a couple years ago!

 

So.... I guess all this to say... if you believe in the method, hang in there and patiently work it. It will pay off! Encourage your dd and give her as much help as she needs to remember the passage. Over time you will see her do more and more of it on her own. And, don't give into her dislike of dictation... if I did that we would no longer be using WWE! You have to believe in the method and totally buy into it though! :001_smile:

[Capt_Uhura]

Here's what I do. I read the passage 2x. Then I read a sentence and have DS repeat after me. THen I read the next sentence and have him repeat after me until we're finished. Then I read it straight through one more time and ask him to repeat all of it. That seems to really help him. I think the key is does your DD have issues w/ holding her own thoughts in her head when she writes? Other proponents of dictation do not place as much significance on short term memory. Have you watched SWB's youtube video doing dictation with her son? That has been eye-opening for many. THere is another WWE thread going on w/ links to the you-tube video. My 5th grader is finishing WWE3 over the next 2 weeks. He did WWE1,2,3 in grades 3 and 4. My 2nd grader is on week 26 of WWE2 and will move into WWE3 when we finish. He has a much better short term memory than his big brother.

 

Also, my oldest finds passages w/ modern sentence structure much easier to remember than those with non-modern sentence structure.

[Mallory]

My kids aren't on level for any of the dictations in WWE, but they do fine on the narrations, so I just change the dictations a little. I also feel like the dictation in the wkbks are much harder than what is laid out in the text.

 

For WWE 3 the text says

 

weeks 2-10 dictation of 12- 15 words, alternate between two short sentances and one long- but the examples for week 1 are 26 and 21 words

 

weeks 12-19 dictation of 15-18 words, two sentances- but the examples for week 11 are 21 and 23 words long

 

Rest of the year- dictation of 16- 20 words, two or three sentances- but in week 20 they are 26 words long (with lots of punctuation) and 48 :001_huh: words long (again lots of puntuation), and in week 28 the examples are 28 words and 26 words and the final dictation (week 36) is 30 words

 

 

So even though she set out this very incremental way to keep moving in dication, the examples she picks are much harder than the little steps would imply. Although I haven't counted out every passage in the workbooks, I don't think I've ever found one that isn't longer than recomended for that week in the text. And sine we seem to usually be a section or two behind our narrations, the text dictations are way too hard.

[Mom0012]

Yes, my 3rd grade daughter can do it, but not with me just reading the passage 2 times. On the other hand, I'd probably have to read that passage to my 5th grade son at least 50 times for him to get it unless I fed it to him a part at a time. He cannot hold complicated language in his head.

 

Lisa

[Poke Salad Annie]

I use the text instead of the workbooks, so I work in whatever order I choose according to ability. The text is so inexpensive and non-consumable, and the selections are enjoyable. They also give me ideas for selections for our next lessons.

 

One other thing I add into our dictation for the week is a *cold* dictation. I use the books suggested in the 1st edition of WTM, and we have found them to be enjoyable. Since we have been doing dictation this way, I have become very comfortable in choosing passages, and you could honestly pick up any *good* child's book and go from there.

[Penelope]

Yes. We are using WWE3 for 3rd grade. However the child that is doing it, has always been able to remember things he hears only once or twice.

I do have to repeat the sentences a few extra times if it contains unfamiliar words. I also often have to help with spelling when he gets to the word.

[razorbackmama]

I am using the text rather than the workbook, and I think that makes a huge difference. (The workbooks have tended to have longer dictations than what the text suggests.) I pull dictation passages from the books they are reading, so the language tends to be not as far over their heads as what the workbook uses.

 

That said, even my then 4th, 5th, and 7th graders had trouble at times. Definitely watch the video recommended above - it's a huge help!

[RamonaQ]

Can someone please link me what the text is? Is it the instructor guide? TIA!

[abbeyej]

Yes, mine does them fairly easily. Occasionally I'll need to read more times or remind her of a word part-way through.

[ELaurie]

ds 11 struggled with WWE 3 when he was 10.

[fastforward]

My daughter was having difficulties with the dictation, as well, and I posted about it last week. Watching the

gave me a bit more confidence in how I was approaching the dictation exercises, so I've slowed it down quite a bit. With repeating the passages more than 2-3 times and breaking down the parts of the sentences ("raise your hand when you hear the comma/semicolon/etc.") has helped considerably.

[NineChoirs]

This was posted on a spelling thread by a helpful mom:

 

The main idea behind Spelling Wisdom is studied dictation. My dd copies the passage as part of her copywork' date=' and she studies and identifies any words she does not know. She is to look at it, spell it, close her eyes and visualize it, etc. If she feels ready by the next day, I dictate the passage to her while she writes it down, then she corrects her work. If she feels that she is not ready she gets more time to study the words.[/i']

 

 

 

I am not sure what the dictation passages look like in WWE. I am using The Catholic National Readers New Speller and Word Book. We haven't got to the dictation part yet, but the dictation exercises look pretty tough. A couple of examples:

 

The first few focus on lists like:

 

A cow moos, lows, bellows, and chews. A lamb bleats, baas, frisks, and gambols. A cat mews, purs, spits, and scratches. A chicken crows, cluck, lays, and cackles.

 

Then later it starts focusing on rules and comprehension:

 

I advise you not to take the advice of that man; he is an errant scamp and the ally of bad people. If you ballot for that candidate the effect will be that it will affect the election. While the boy was going on an errand he was dragged into an alley and robbed. The beacon was reflected in the water on the opposite side of the bay, and the illusion was perfect. Beckon to that waiter. The ballad which the Briton wrote about Great Britain received general praise except from one man who would not accept it as good. His remarks were not apposite, as they contained a personal allusion.

 

All dictation exercises use words and rules that were presented in previous lessons. I do plan on using the dictation exercises as tests. Since I no longer do "spelling tests" this will be a good way for me to see how much she is retaining. However, because the exercises are very difficult (my husband calls a couple of them cruel :D) I want to make sure she gets them down before moving on. So I plan to do the dictation cold the first time. I will grade the first results only marking off points for misspelled words or misrepresentation of rules. Then, if it is needed, I will use the "studied dictation" method as explained by Rene until my daughter is able to finish the exercise fairly well.

 

I haven't watched the video that was linked to yet, but I plan on doing so. We have previously done minor, note taking type dictation, but this will be my first time using full passage/list dictation. I want to make sure I do it right!

[NineChoirs]

Watched the video... it was helpful. Lot's of hovering though. I can't even read when someone is standing over my shoulder, let alone write! :D

 

I probably wouldn't take it quite so slow. At a certain point it could become more like a list of words, which defeats the purpose of dictation. I would rather my daughter would make a few mistakes (as long as the spelling, rule usage, and general ideas/tone are correct.) than to give her too much direct help and have her begin to rely on that assistance. I would expect the mistakes to reduce over time as she gains practice. But if I stand next to her and correct her everytime she makes a mistake, she might not try as hard to listen & remember the words as I read them.

 

The reason I liked the idea of studied dictation as a follow up to a cold dictation, is that I think it will help her link the words she heard with the words she reads. Eventually I hope that will increase her ability to retain words she hears instead of just words that she reads. In my experience, children who learn at home tend to have very strong reading & visual skills, but auditory learning can be more of a problem area. Audio books and learning CD's have probably helped with this, but I think and hope dictation directly addresses it. When my daughter goes to college I want her to be able to listen to a lecture and retain what she hears and take accurate notes.

[Catherine]

My fourth grader struggles with the narrations, dictations, and especially, the *copywork* in WWE2. He's rather dysgraphic, but I do see progress, despite only starting WWE1 in the middle of third grade. No way could he have done even WWE1 any earlier. Oddly enough, he finds dictation far easier than copying and narration. His visual memory of language is relatively weak. But, WWE has helped him.

 

I've also started some of WWE4 with my eighth grader. He's not a bad writer, necessarily, but he could improve his visual and auditory memory of language so we are working on it. He also struggles to summarize too, and combined with Write Shop, he's working on all of these.

[melmichigan]

I tested my DD10/sixth grader, today with the post test for WWE2, she cannot pass the dictation. She was in PS for LA up until last semester and has no recollection with something like this. We are going back and will try to quickly work through WWE2 dictation. My DD7's are in week 21 of WWE1 so I will get the use out of it. I think it is worth the time invested for her to be able to do this. We use the workbook pdf downloads if it makes a difference. :)

[emmsmama]

Oh man, I think everybody who buys the WWE books should get a link telling them to watch that video!

 

I did WWE 1-4 with dd when she was in 5th grade. I just used the hardbound teacher book and only did things at an accelerated pace. Anyway, even I was having trouble remember a lot of the dictation passages. The way the book makes it sound, you should be able to repeat it twice to your child and then have them repeat it back to you and that's it. Luckily, I didn't stick to that and read it more times for dd when necessary (which was almost always for Level 2-4).

 

What I hit on that worked really well is dd would read the passage to me and have *me* learn it first. Then by the time I turned it around for her to do, she had it pretty much down pat. This really helped alleviate her stress about remembering a very long passage and it also showed me how difficult they were when I tried to do them, so I could remain more patient with her.

[RhondaJK]

 

What I hit on that worked really well is dd would read the passage to me and have *me* learn it first. Then by the time I turned it around for her to do, she had it pretty much down pat. This really helped alleviate her stress about remembering a very long passage and it also showed me how difficult they were when I tried to do them, so I could remain more patient with her.

 

:hurray:What a great idea, I'm going to do this too!

[SheriGene]

Wow, thank you everyone! This thread has helped a lot as well as the You Tube video. I have been very hard on my dd9. As a result, she does not like dictation. She is in 4th grade and finishing WWE3. The modern passages especially from fiction books are much easier, but the nonfiction books that are older are more difficult. I also agree that the workbook does not follow the word limits that the text does. When comparing dictation that Jessie Wise does occasionally in 1st LL 4, WWE4 is quite difficult. I am going to relax, break it down into sentences and repeat the passage a few more times than instructed.

[fastforward]

Wow, thank you everyone! This thread has helped a lot as well as the You Tube video. I have been very hard on my dd9. As a result, she does not like dictation. She is in 4th grade and finishing WWE3. The modern passages especially from fiction books are much easier, but the nonfiction books that are older are more difficult. I also agree that the workbook does not follow the word limits that the text does. When comparing dictation that Jessie Wise does occasionally in 1st LL 4, WWE4 is quite difficult. I am going to relax, break it down into sentences and repeat the passage a few more times than instructed.

:grouphug: I, too, have been very hard on my daughter about the dictation because I felt I should follow the book exactly -- only reading the passages the "required" 2 or 3 times. Since watching the video, I've tried to be more generous with the times that I repeat the passages for my daughter. Plus, I've learned that I will need to repeat more times for passages that are written in an older style of language. The most important thing, though, is realizing that my delivery of the passages to my daughter is the problem, and not my daughter's inability to hold the long, sometimes boring (sorry!) passages in her head.

 

We tried something interesting yesterday that was suggested here by another parent and it worked really well to make the less fun and light-hearted. I asked my daughter to read it to me and I had to memorize and repeat it back to her. She thought this was awesome! :D Once I recited it back to her properly, I read it back to her twice and she wrote it down. So much less stress than bugging my daughter about needing to hold the words in her head!

[hsbaby]

Oh yes, Susan's video clarified a lot for me!!! I thought my kids had possibly the worst memories ever:) now I realize I was expecting way too much!!