MCT grammar -- should I supplement?

[ssexton]

Ok, I'm not sure if I just need talking down or if I really ought to supplement MCT grammar. This year I started using the Town level for my 5th and 6th graders, who both have a strong grammar background. They have done grammar every year, and finished Growing with Grammar (5th and 6th grade levels) last school year. We are one week into the school year, and I'm afraid that the MCT program just isn't enough. It's definitely engaging, and I love how the different components flow together, but I'm just not sure that they will get enough practice to make this stick, kwim? And, frankly, so much of it is review. Maybe I bought the wrong level, but I don't really have the cash to buy the next level right now.

 

So...I'm wondering if I should supplement? And if so, what to use? I don't want to go back to GWG. I've considered R&S, but have no idea when it comes to placement. I'm really only possibly needing grammar, as we are satisfied with spelling and writing choices.

 

Or, is it just too soon to know? Should I just stick with MCT exclusively for a bit longer? Arggg....It's so hard to know sometimes.

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Crimson Wife]

Have you looked through the lessons in the back of the Paragraph Town TM? I had a similar reaction to you when I first previewed Grammar Town in isolation. Then when I actually received the full level, I saw that the grammar is "meaty" IF you use ALL the components together. I'm not thrilled about how MCT chose to spread the grammar instruction out over the 3 books rather than having everything all in one place, but it did turn out to be enough when we got through everything.

[EKS]

The grammar sticks because you use the practice book after you do the grammar book. It has 100 days worth of practice. However, there is very little in MCT about things like punctuation and capitalization, so this year we will be using Daily Grams on the side.

[catz]

We supplemented MCT last year just by creating our own writing assignments and taking it to higher levels. We would journal things we did. We'd create longer assignments. We did NaNoWriMo (National Novel Writing Month). It requires a little creativity, but this worked very well for my very advanced kid doing Island level. We're doing Town this year, and I anticipate more of the same. Using MCT over the long term really changed how we looked at language arts. My son is completely negative about any curriculum that look like workbooks or busy work. We didn't come at it from another curriculum though, so that's our perspective.

 

If you just started, I would definitely give it a bit more time. It took me awhile to even "get" MCT and where they were going. But now we just love it. Are you just doing grammar right now? Are you doing Caeser's English (that seems easy to build from)? Is Practice Town a complete no brainer for them?

[Matryoshka]

You at the very least should have the Practice books - that's where much of the practice is. And Crimson's right, the grammar is extended and deepened quite a bit in Paragraph Town. The Grammar book in MCT is meant to give a big-picture overview in the first month or two of school, then the concepts are deepened, extended and practiced in the other books over the course of the year.

[StephanieZ]

I can't imagine a 5th/6th grader needing more formal LA than what MCT Town provides (all books!). . . except for just more practice writing. If you are doing all the components of MCT LA, then I don't think you need to "supplement" except for adding more writing experience (not necc. formal instruction but more practice) and, of course, literature since that is not included in MCT LA.

 

I'd add additional writing assignments on other topics as they work into your other subjects: history, science, literature, etc. Have them do an extra paragraph or two each week, and throw in a 5-7 paragraph essay once a month or so. Personally, I think that's fine for that age level.

 

You can also utilize the TM ideas in the Poetry book for actually writing poems and analyzing them. You can repeat some of the meatier Paragraph Town exercises.

 

Personally, I am supplementing the writing for my 6th & 8th graders doing Voyage this way: my 6th grader doing Voyage this year will also be doing IEW Medieval, and my 8th grader doing Voyage will also be doing IEW's Elegant Essay plus about two extra essays each month for her W&M Utopia literature course (which doesn't very explicitly teach writing but provides nice prompts and some guidance). I chose these materials just b/c I am already familiar with the IEW stuff & I really want my 8th grader to master the basic essay this year. If you don't have specific other materials you want to use, I think you could easily develop assignments each week based on PT ideas once you get into the meat of the course.

 

HTH

[Corraleno]

You at the very least should have the Practice books - that's where much of the practice is. And Crimson's right, the grammar is extended and deepened quite a bit in Paragraph Town. The Grammar book in MCT is meant to give a big-picture overview in the first month or two of school, then the concepts are deepened, extended and practiced in the other books over the course of the year.

:iagree:

You need to look at the whole package to see how it works. It's so different from other programs, it doesn't look like there's much "there" until you actually start to use it, then you discover how deep and rich it really is.

 

Jackie

[rafiki]

.

[ssexton]

Thanks, everyone! I'm not good at the multiple quoting thingy, but I so appreciate all of your responses!!

 

I do have the complete set, and I'm planning to use it in it's entirety. However, I'm using a schedule from the files section of the MCT yahoo group, and it only schedules Grammar Town, CE and Poetry at the beginning. I guess that's why it seems light right now. The Practice books don't start until week 10 when we finish GT. After reading your replies, I looked through the Teacher's section of Paragraph Town, and there is a lot of meat there! Thanks so much for pointing that out. But, again, the schedule doesn't have us beginning Paragraph Town until week 15. I guess I could move it up a bit? But knowing it's there and we will get to it is certainly comforting.

 

I also appreciate the writing ideas! We are doing other writing in addition to MCT. We outline and write summaries in science and history ala WTM. I also have Meaningful Composition that I'm hoping to use.

 

Daily Grams or Daily Language Review may just be the ticket. Short, quick review that won't take up too much time but still keep skills fresh.

 

Thanks again!

[StephanieZ]

You just don't want to start Paragraph Town until you have completed Grammar Town. (The PT lessons have sentence analysis that is pretty advanced and actually deepens what is presented in GT. . . The punctuation lessons in PT (mostly lessons 11-20 if memory serves) also depend on the material covered in GT.

 

You can zip through Grammar Town in a month if you like, especially since your boys have a good bit of grammar experience.

 

Once you get through GT, you can start all the other books.

 

(And, yes, it is OK to start CE & Poetry before finishing GT if you are ancy for variety. . . But wait on the Practice Book and the Paragraph Book until you are done w/ GT.)

 

HTH

[Gooblink]

We did just as pp said: we zipped through GT in about 4 weeks and have just started the other components this week. This is our first venture into MCT, so I'm no expert to say what works or doesn't. I can say that with 1 or 2 Practice Town sentences, a Paragraph Town lesson, CE and Poetry per day...it seems we're getting a well rounded LA experience.

 

The proof will be in the tasting of the pudding...as they say. :)

[....]

Ok, I'm not sure if I just need talking down or if I really ought to supplement MCT grammar. I'm afraid that the MCT program just isn't enough.

 

I'll probably be assassinated for saying this, but we use MCT as a supplement to CLE. We've done Grammar Island and Music of the Hemispheres - and they were awesome books - and my daughter knows all the different parts of speech. However, we buzzed through those two books in about a month. Maybe when we get into the higher level, I can loosen the reigns a little, but they seemed to be missing things that CLE covered on a grueling, daily basis. :leaving: I do think they are incredible and absolutely worth buying.

[....]

The proof will be in the tasting of the pudding...as they say. :)

 

Yeah, part of my problem was trying to find the author's scope and sequence on his website. I was all over that website and all I can see is book covers and a small description. This seems like it's a relatively new curriculum and I haven't heard from anyone who's completed it. Maybe by the time my 4th kid is in middle school, I'll be able to say, "MCT is awesome." But, until then... :tongue_smilie:

[radiobrain]

Yeah, part of my problem was trying to find the author's scope and sequence on his website. I was all over that website and all I can see is book covers and a small description. This seems like it's a relatively new curriculum and I haven't heard from anyone who's completed it. Maybe by the time my 4th kid is in middle school, I'll be able to say, "MCT is awesome." But, until then... :tongue_smilie:

 

It is not new, just newer to the homeschool community (specifically this board, as another HS list I am on has been talking bout it for years..it's how I found it). MCT has been writing it over several years, and it has been used all over the country in classrooms/gifted LA programs etc etc. If you are on the right board, you will hear plenty of people who have gone through most, if not all, of the whole sequence.

 

I have never spent much time on the website, it is clunky (as it is chock full o' stuff), but I know there are plenty of nuggets on there. I know there are some bits of lectures on youtube. I wouldn't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but my take on the whole MCTLA experience is that he wants to awaken the joy and simple elegance of the English language, so that there are no fears about it's complexity, but a foundational understanding of all of it from a young age. Teaching it as a whole, from the simplest stripping down, to the fullness of it's glory. (sorry, I am becoming a geek about this) All the while he is working on creating a solid base of classic vocabulary, poetic understanding and then you get to work on forming an essay. A real essay. But it is a process. from 3/4th grade until 8th/9th grade... all building on the info learned the year before. By the time the student is entering high school, they should be more than competent at all these skills that they can work on Lit. analysis and continue writing papers towards college quality throughout HS. ugh. Well, that's how I interpret it anyway. :001_huh: When there are things I think my boys need extra work on, I do it, but I know that if I did nothing BUT MCTLA , they will be great at this stuff by the time they are teenagers. I think some of us freak out too much. :D

 

OP, it seems light....in the beginning, but it has such depth. Don't rush it. It will be reinforced throughout all the books and the practice sentences will slowly solidify everything else. If you need to, supplementing is fine.... but it isn't necessary. I do different types of writing on the side, to work on different skills but not a formal program.

 

Starbuck... you're fine. :D But going through a grammar book and a poetry book in a jiffy is different than the whole program over the year. Especially Island level. Town level is a much more interesting and complex animal. If you go with that, I bet your main program will become the supplement. :lol:

 

OK! Need more coffee! And off to "generally schedule" Voyage Level!

[Kissy]

We are on Magic Lens 1 this year and I love it. I will be picking up a workbook though for punctuation because I think my student needs to see the rules daily and practice them and he does not with MCT. However, he can do the 4 level analysis on any sentence and truly knows the parts which is hard to accomplish. I didn't get some of the stuff he gets until college. He scores fantastic on the end of year test on grammar he only scored bad in punctuation and capitilization. Which are easy to fix.

[Marla]

I'm gearing up to begin Town level in Sept. Since I already own Daily Grams, I'm having dd complete one page a day since it includes one practice capitalization and punctuation sentence. It only takes her a few minutes to complete. After we officially begin MCT, we'll see whether or not we need to continue doing a Daily Gram.

[StephanieZ]

We are on Magic Lens 1 this year and I love it. I will be picking up a workbook though for punctuation because I think my student needs to see the rules daily and practice them and he does not with MCT. However, he can do the 4 level analysis on any sentence and truly knows the parts which is hard to accomplish. I didn't get some of the stuff he gets until college. He scores fantastic on the end of year test on grammar he only scored bad in punctuation and capitilization. Which are easy to fix.

 

Did you do Town or Voyage level first? I am very impressed with the punctuation exercises in Paragaph Town and Essay Voyage. . . I suspect that my dc are going to be master punctuators (is that a word? lol), and I know my own punctuation has improved just by working through Town with them!

[Matryoshka]

Did you do Town or Voyage level first? I am very impressed with the punctuation exercises in Paragaph Town and Essay Voyage. . . I suspect that my dc are going to be master punctuators (is that a word? lol), and I know my own punctuation has improved just by working through Town with them!

 

:iagree: I love the Punctuation as a Function of Grammar exercises. And you really feel like you know why that comma should go there (or not). They're like punctuation proofs!

[....]

In exactly which level does he cover Punctuation? :confused:

 

Thanks for the comments and synopsis, radiobrain! :001_smile: I really want this program to work for us...

[radiobrain]

In exactly which level does he cover Punctuation? :confused:

 

Thanks for the comments and synopsis, radiobrain! :001_smile: I really want this program to work for us...

 

:D

 

He covers some in Town, and more in Voyage.

 

I have a feeling that the things that people might not see in the lower levels and think "Oh no! That isn't here!" show up in the later levels. I can tell you that he doesn't do punctuation like.... exclamation point, period, question mark... he explains when to use a comma and semi colon according to the grammar of the sentence. If he is covering the most basic simple sentences (Island), he has no reason to mention it until he gets to the complex and compound sentences. This really starts to show up in Town, where he teaches when to use these if you have a compound sentence with 2 independent clauses and with an independent and dependent clause, also with certain types of phrases. I haven't started Voyage yet, but I know that he will get into the more complex punctuation as a function of grammar as he gets to the more complex grammar. I can tell you this... I never learned this well in school. I finally understand where and when you use a comma and a semi colon (I still have trouble, I suspect his will get better as we progress through the levels). Luckily, my kids shouldn't have that same problem. ;)

[....]

Wow, thanks! That's one of the reasons why I cling to CLE as our main program (Geez, if you get behind in CLE - all is lost - lol). I kept looking through his website, trying to find a scope and sequence... Now I know exactly where those topics are covered in the MCT series.

 

Thanks again! :001_smile:

[radiobrain]

Basically, you need to teach the proper capitalization and basic punctuation yourself. That is no big deal.

[Kissy]

Did you do Town or Voyage level first? I am very impressed with the punctuation exercises in Paragaph Town and Essay Voyage. . . I suspect that my dc are going to be master punctuators (is that a word? lol), and I know my own punctuation has improved just by working through Town with them!

 

We did Essay Voyage last year. I know punctuation is covered but for us it didn't seem that it was stressed throughout the practice. On our end of year test though he performed so much better than ever on usage and expression after working through Voyage.