LA curriculum help (4th grade)

[SS in MD]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of looking for a English curriculum for my 4th grader. She has some learning delays and grammar is a hard subject for her, so I'm trying to find a program that has a lot of repetition and explains things in small chunks.

 

We tried FLL 3 last year. It took us a lot of time to go thru' daily. I had to really break it up for her. For the last two weeks, I've tried R&S English 4 (already had it from my older girls). We go thru' the oral review, lesson, oral drill, written practice together - mostly done orally and I'll use a white board to further explain concepts. Yesterday we did lesson 8 (Nouns & Noun phrases). She dd fine on the exercises, and to reinforce I gave her the worksheet that went with the lesson. She totally bombed it - she got half wrong. Then I had her correct those and she still got them mostly wrong... all in all we spent about almost 2 hrs on English! We've also tried GWG but it didn't have enough review for her.... Any thoughts?? Oh, I also looked at CLE English 4, it looks like it has daily review, but the teacher book didn't give good teaching tips if dd is stuck (I need those!)

help! :lol:

 

Thanks so much! :)

[SS in MD]

:lurk5:

[blessedmom3]

We love CLE here . Everything is in the student book and I use it as my teacher book also . My son likes CLE better than R&S and it's more independent , although I always make sure he gets everything .

[Jan in SC]

My ds will be in 4th and he has some lds in written expression, spelling, and reading. His schedule is:

 

M,W,F- GWG 4

M-Th - Writing with Ease 3

T &Th - Brave writer adapted

M-Th - Megawords (spelling)

Reading- I break down a novel into 1 or 2 weeks depending on the length.

He also has history and science reading.

[Carrie-txmama2six]

It may not be the curriculum. I think grammar is just hard for some kids. I would do overkill on whatever part of speech you are learning and just stick with it until she gets it. I wouldn't spend two hours or worry about trying to do a lesson a day, but I would break it down into small bits and do some each day until it sticks. I would commit to sitting the entire half hour with her so that you avoid the frustration of her incorrectly doing it again and again. I think this also confuses the child because they really didn't know that they were doing to begin with. I also have children with learning issues, and we are using R&S. I think CLE looks great, but a noun is a noun is a noun, if you KWIM.

[SS in MD]

Thank you all for the ideas for my dd.... It is a daily struggle to teach & re-teach.... but I've realized she just needs lots of review... thanks again! I'll give your ideas a try!

[Mom0012]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of looking for a English curriculum for my 4th grader. She has some learning delays and grammar is a hard subject for her, so I'm trying to find a program that has a lot of repetition and explains things in small chunks.

 

We tried FLL 3 last year. It took us a lot of time to go thru' daily. I had to really break it up for her. For the last two weeks, I've tried R&S English 4 (already had it from my older girls). We go thru' the oral review, lesson, oral drill, written practice together - mostly done orally and I'll use a white board to further explain concepts. Yesterday we did lesson 8 (Nouns & Noun phrases). She dd fine on the exercises, and to reinforce I gave her the worksheet that went with the lesson. She totally bombed it - she got half wrong. Then I had her correct those and she still got them mostly wrong... all in all we spent about almost 2 hrs on English! We've also tried GWG but it didn't have enough review for her.... Any thoughts?? Oh, I also looked at CLE English 4, it looks like it has daily review, but the teacher book didn't give good teaching tips if dd is stuck (I need those!)

help! :lol:

 

Thanks so much! :)

 

My son has language based lds, and we are going to use Shurley this year along with Editor in Chief to work on mechanics. Shurley is supposed to be great for kids that struggle. Veritas Press uses it. For writing, we will be continuing with IEW since this works really well for him. We will not be using the writing in Shurley.

 

I used CLE 3 for him last year when he was in 4th grade and he did improve, but there wasn't enough instruction for him in certain areas -- irregular verbs, helping verbs. I actually wound up pulling out my copy of R&S and doing the chapter on verbs to supplement CLE. I do like CLE. The lessons are short and sweet and can be done mostly independently. I am considering using Shurley daily for the first month of school and then once we get into a routine, dropping back to using that 2 days a week and using CLE on the others, but first I'm going to see how he responds to Shurley. I often hear it recommended to skip levels of Shurley, so we'd be doing Shurley 4, 6 and then 7. Since that's the case, I'm thinking it won't hurt to spread a level out over more than a year.

 

Another thought for you would be to try CLE but pull out the R&S books for areas that your daughter needs additional help with.

Lisa

Edited July 31, 2010 by LisaTheresa

[HollyDay]

Have you looked at Winston Grammar? The visual component is excellent. The cards can be used with any curriculum once you get the idea.

[SS in MD]

My son has language based lds, and we are going to use Shurley this year along with Editor in Chief to work on mechanics. Shurley is supposed to be great for kids that struggle. Veritas Press uses it. For writing, we will be continuing with IEW since this works really well for him. We will not be using the writing in Shurley.

 

I used CLE 3 for him last year when he was in 4th grade and he did improve, but there wasn't enough instruction for him in certain areas -- irregular verbs, helping verbs. I actually wound up pulling out my copy of R&S and doing the chapter on verbs to supplement CLE. I do like CLE. The lessons are short and sweet and can be done mostly independently. I am considering using Shurley daily for the first month of school and then once we get into a routine, dropping back to using that 2 days a week and using CLE on the others, but first I'm going to see how he responds to Shurley. I often hear it recommended to skip levels of Shurley, so we'd be doing Shurley 4, 6 and then 7. Since that's the case, I'm thinking it won't hurt to spread a level out over more than a year.

 

Another thought for you would be to try CLE but pull out the R&S books for areas that your daughter needs additional help with.

Lisa

 

LIsa,

Thanks for your idea about Shurley. We have never used it. I really am struggling with trying to find a grammar program that works (rather "sticks") for dd (9 yo; 4th grade in the fall). She can recite definitions (FFL 3) and tell me what a verb, noun, adjective is. But when it come to transferring that knowledge to paper, she can't do it. Yesterday I gave her an R&S worksheet to find the sentence skeletion (simple subj & simple predicate). She got most wrong b/c either she wrote the complete subject on the diagram or not the main verb for the simple predicate. These are things she has learned/been taught in FLL 3 and in the prior R&S lesson.... so I'm not sure if it's just a matter of going *really* slow thru R&S or perhaps just needing more repetition (CLE??? or Shurley??).

 

I'm a little concerned that Shurley doesn't teach diagramming. My older girls have gone thru' R&S English 3-8 and I can see the benefit of diagramming. But, I really can't teach the more advanced diagramming concepts - phrases/clauses etc (by the time dds learned those topics they were doing R&S independently). So, do you teach diagramming? If so, how? Do you use another book? Also, if read an older post saying that Shurley does a good job teaching the basics, but not advanced topics like phrases & clauses. What do you think?? What do you plan to use after Shruley 7??

 

Also, I plan to use AAS, CLE for reading, Vocab - not sure, writing not sure. What do you use for your ds for writing & vocab?

 

Thanks so much for your help! I am *so* eager to find a grammer program that works for dd and we (me & her) are not pulling our hair out!!!! help!

 

Sangita

dd(14),dd(12),dd(9),ds(6)

[radiobrain]

You might want to try MCT's Grammar Island and Practice Island books. I only mention it as it takes a very different approach to teaching grammar, and there is no repetition. It is not everyone's cup of tea, but it might not be a bad choice if what you have been doing isn't working or sticking.

 

IF you were going this route, you would get the Grammar Island TM and the Practice Island TM & SM. It does have a "childlike" font (the only book that has it, I think) through most of the book....so you know.

 

Also, another great grammar helper is doing Mad Libs. You can even write your own elaborate mad libs where you put in subject/predicate/D.O./I.O./S.C. and prepositions etc. You can really practice a lot of grammar this way, and they are fun.

 

I wish you luck!

 

:D

[Ellie]

So, you're wanting grammar? Grammar is just one component of "language arts," the others being reading/literature, composition, spelling/vocabulary, even penmanship.

 

If you want just grammar, my first recommendation is to wait. She's just 9. It's ok not to study grammar yet. Her reading and writing skills are much more imporant, IMHO. If you feel strongly that she needs grammar right now, then my recommendation would be Easy Grammar.

[Mom0012]

LIsa,

Thanks for your idea about Shurley. We have never used it. I really am struggling with trying to find a grammar program that works (rather "sticks") for dd (9 yo; 4th grade in the fall). She can recite definitions (FFL 3) and tell me what a verb, noun, adjective is. But when it come to transferring that knowledge to paper, she can't do it. Yesterday I gave her an R&S worksheet to find the sentence skeletion (simple subj & simple predicate). She got most wrong b/c either she wrote the complete subject on the diagram or not the main verb for the simple predicate. These are things she has learned/been taught in FLL 3 and in the prior R&S lesson.... so I'm not sure if it's just a matter of going *really* slow thru R&S or perhaps just needing more repetition (CLE??? or Shurley??).

 

I'm a little concerned that Shurley doesn't teach diagramming. My older girls have gone thru' R&S English 3-8 and I can see the benefit of diagramming. But, I really can't teach the more advanced diagramming concepts - phrases/clauses etc (by the time dds learned those topics they were doing R&S independently). So, do you teach diagramming? If so, how? Do you use another book? Also, if read an older post saying that Shurley does a good job teaching the basics, but not advanced topics like phrases & clauses. What do you think?? What do you plan to use after Shruley 7??

 

Also, I plan to use AAS, CLE for reading, Vocab - not sure, writing not sure. What do you use for your ds for writing & vocab?

 

Thanks so much for your help! I am *so* eager to find a grammer program that works for dd and we (me & her) are not pulling our hair out!!!! help!

 

Sangita

dd(14),dd(12),dd(9),ds(6)

 

Sangita -

 

My son has learned some diagramming in CLE. That's one reason I was considering continuing with CLE on the days we don't do Shurley. You can also buy a separate book from CLE that just teaches diagramming if you don't want to do a whole separate program. I doubt that Shurley goes into the depth that R&S does, but for my grammar-challenged child, I'm not sure it's important to go that deep. Also, I figure we can always do some R&S once we're done with Shurley if I still feel we need more.

 

My son uses IEW for writing and I don't use a formal vocab program. He does have a strong vocabulary, but I think he gets that from all the SL read-alouds we do. IEW is great for working on vocabulary because it encourages the kids to use so many words they wouldn't normally use. There is also a focus on grammatical concepts in IEW. I think that may be a big key to getting grammar concepts to transfer -- focusing on them in the kid's own writing. Perhaps it could be as simple as that for you.

 

I just finished reading How to Design Your Own Classical Curriculum by Laura Berquist and I was interested to hear her say that studying grammar is not necessary in order to become a good writer, but she sees it as beneficial more for developing logic and analytical skills. She doesn't recommend a formal logic program because she considers grammar to be her logic program. I don't remember the age she felt it was right to really starting to focus more on this, but I thought it was 7th or 8th grade. The other comment that Berquist makes is that grammar is a subject that requires discussion in order for the kids to really understand what they are doing. It sounds like you are doing that with the oral drill of R&S, but again, maybe if you added a little discussion of the grammatical concepts in your daughter's own writing, that would make a difference.

 

This summer, I have been reading Grammarland, which is written in a novel format to my kids and they have actually been enjoying it. There is another book called The Sentence Family http://www.stmichaelschool.us/bookstore.html that I'm going to get for next year. I think approaching grammar this way gets my son thinking more about the meaning of the exercises he's been doing in his workbooks.

 

I think some kids are never going to be able to apply what they have learned in their grammar textbooks (and my son may be one of them). My husband has a much more extensive knowledge of grammar terms than I do, but he can't apply any of it to his writing. He still graduated at the top of his class and is a very successful adult. Remembering that helps me to keep things in perspective when I get frustrated with our progress.

 

Sorry to get so long. I'm certainly not an expert, just searching for answers like you are.

 

Lisa

Edited August 2, 2010 by LisaTheresa

[SS in MD]

You might want to try MCT's Grammar Island and Practice Island books. I only mention it as it takes a very different approach to teaching grammar, and there is no repetition. It is not everyone's cup of tea, but it might not be a bad choice if what you have been doing isn't working or sticking.

 

IF you were going this route, you would get the Grammar Island TM and the Practice Island TM & SM. It does have a "childlike" font (the only book that has it, I think) through most of the book....so you know.

 

Also, another great grammar helper is doing Mad Libs. You can even write your own elaborate mad libs where you put in subject/predicate/D.O./I.O./S.C. and prepositions etc. You can really practice a lot of grammar this way, and they are fun.

 

I wish you luck!

 

:D

 

Thanks for your post. I actually was looking at MCT last night... I'm a little confused by the website (lots to look at!!) But, my curiosity is peeked, because so many on this board love MCT. But, since I read on the website, it was a program for "gifted" dc, and I didn't see much repetition, which is something dc needs....

I looked at a LOT of older MCT posts, can you tell me a few things -

1) Why do so many like it? What is the "different approach"??

2) How do concepts "stick" if there is no repetition?

3) Is it fast paced? (couldn't tell from the samples..)

4) When you say its not everyones cup of tea - what do you mean... sorry I've read this in other posts, but not clear why...

 

Thanks so much for helping!

[SS in MD]

Sangita -

 

My son has learned some diagramming in CLE. That's one reason I was considering continuing with CLE on the days we don't do Shurley. You can also buy a separate book from CLE that just teaches diagramming if you don't want to do a whole separate program. I doubt that Shurley goes into the depth that R&S does, but for my grammar-challenged child, I'm not sure it's important to go that deep. Also, I figure we can always do some R&S once we're done with Shurley if I still feel we need more.

 

My son uses IEW for writing and I don't use a formal vocab program. He does have a strong vocabulary, but I think he gets that from all the SL read-alouds we do. IEW is great for working on vocabulary because it encourages the kids to use so many words they wouldn't normally use. There is also a focus on grammatical concepts in IEW. I think that may be a big key to getting grammar concepts to transfer -- focusing on them in the kid's own writing. Perhaps it could be as simple as that for you.

 

I just finished reading How to Design Your Own Classical Curriculum by Laura Berquist and I was interested to hear her say that studying grammar is not necessary in order to become a good writer, but she sees it as beneficial more for developing logic and analytical skills. She doesn't recommend a formal logic program because she considers grammar to be her logic program. I don't remember the age she felt it was right to really starting to focus more on this, but I thought it was 7th or 8th grade. The other comment that Berquist makes is that grammar is a subject that requires discussion in order for the kids to really understand what they are doing. It sounds like you are doing that with the oral drill of R&S, but again, maybe if you added a little discussion of the grammatical concepts in your daughter's own writing, that would make a difference.

 

This summer, I have been reading Grammarland, which is written in a novel format to my kids and they have actually been enjoying it. There is another book called The Sentence Family http://www.stmichaelschool.us/bookstore.html that I'm going to get for next year. I think approaching grammar this way gets my son thinking more about the meaning of the exercises he's been doing in his workbooks.

 

I think some kids are never going to be able to apply what they have learned in their grammar textbooks (and my son may be one of them). My husband has a much more extensive knowledge of grammar terms than I do, but he can't apply any of it to his writing. He still graduated at the top of his class and is a very successful adult. Remembering that helps me to keep things in perspective when I get frustrated with our progress.

 

Sorry to get so long. I'm certainly not an expert, just searching for answers like you are.

 

Lisa

 

Lisa,

I really appreciate your detailed reply. Thanks for your ideas!!! I'm thinking of adding in Writing Tales 1 with dd since it incorporates parts of speech in the lessons or IEW (I haven't used it before. Older girls used Wordsmith series and local writing classes).

The grammarland book - is it called Journey Thru' Grammarland by Jenson?

http://www.christianbook.com/journey-through-grammarland-1-2-kit/vernie-jones/pd/606137?event=CF ?

Dd does fine with reading and comprehension of literature, but when it comes to grammar it's pretty much "in one ear, out the other"... lol. I'm also looking into MCT, but it might not have enough review...

 

A friend lent me Laura Berquist's book - I've only read some of it, but its a great book... thanks for reminding me of it. Also, thanks for helping me remember to keep things in perspective and not get frustrated when she is not retaining as "I" think she should...

 

Thanks so much for your insight!

Sangita

[Mom0012]

Lisa,

I really appreciate your detailed reply. Thanks for your ideas!!! I'm thinking of adding in Writing Tales 1 with dd since it incorporates parts of speech in the lessons or IEW (I haven't used it before. Older girls used Wordsmith series and local writing classes).

The grammarland book - is it called Journey Thru' Grammarland by Jenson?

http://www.christianbook.com/journey-through-grammarland-1-2-kit/vernie-jones/pd/606137?event=CF ?

Dd does fine with reading and comprehension of literature, but when it comes to grammar it's pretty much "in one ear, out the other"... lol. I'm also looking into MCT, but it might not have enough review...

 

A friend lent me Laura Berquist's book - I've only read some of it, but its a great book... thanks for reminding me of it. Also, thanks for helping me remember to keep things in perspective and not get frustrated when she is not retaining as "I" think she should...

 

Thanks so much for your insight!

Sangita

 

Sangita -

 

You are welcome! The Grammarland book is here http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=grammarland&ih=7_2_1_0_0_0_0_1_0_1.70_67&fsc=7.

 

I think Writing Tales is a great idea. OhElizabeth uses Shurley and highly recommends Writing Tales alongside it because of the way it addresses grammar. I'm sure you could probably find some of her posts about it with a quick search.

 

Lisa

[SS in MD]

Sangita -

 

You are welcome! The Grammarland book is here http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=grammarland&ih=7_2_1_0_0_0_0_1_0_1.70_67&fsc=7.

 

I think Writing Tales is a great idea. OhElizabeth uses Shurley and highly recommends Writing Tales alongside it because of the way it addresses grammar. I'm sure you could probably find some of her posts about it with a quick search.

 

Lisa

 

Thanks for the grammarland link - I'm assuming its the first book in the list (the white cover)? The second bk is on pre-order...

 

Did someone recommend this book to you? I didn't see sample pages on amazon... thanks again!!!

 

Sangita

[Mom0012]

Thanks for the grammarland link - I'm assuming its the first book in the list (the white cover)? The second bk is on pre-order...

 

Did someone recommend this book to you? I didn't see sample pages on amazon... thanks again!!!

 

Sangita

 

Here is a link to the exact book I ordered. http://www.yesterdaysclassics.com/catalog/catalogbytitle.php You'll have to scroll down to see it. I'm sure the first book on Amazon is the same one I have, just with a different cover. I'm pretty sure the other two are the same as well. The book was originally published in 1877, so it's probably been published with many different covers.

 

I think it was Dawn (Nestof3) recommended this book last year or the year before.

 

Lisa

[coffeefreak]

So, you're wanting grammar? Grammar is just one component of "language arts," the others being reading/literature, composition, spelling/vocabulary, even penmanship.

 

If you want just grammar, my first recommendation is to wait. She's just 9. It's ok not to study grammar yet. Her reading and writing skills are much more imporant, IMHO. If you feel strongly that she needs grammar right now, then my recommendation would be Easy Grammar.

 

Sangita -

 

You are welcome! The Grammarland book is here http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=grammarland&ih=7_2_1_0_0_0_0_1_0_1.70_67&fsc=7.

 

I think Writing Tales is a great idea. OhElizabeth uses Shurley and highly recommends Writing Tales alongside it because of the way it addresses grammar. I'm sure you could probably find some of her posts about it with a quick search.

 

Lisa

 

:iagree:

With all this. Another option (not to overwhelm you) is to do Primary Language Lessons or Intermediate Language Lessons in the mean time. She might do better with a more "gentle" approach. One that puts the grammar in context.

 

HTH!

Dorinda

[radiobrain]

Thanks for your post. I actually was looking at MCT last night... I'm a little confused by the website (lots to look at!!) But, my curiosity is peeked, because so many on this board love MCT. But, since I read on the website, it was a program for "gifted" dc, and I didn't see much repetition, which is something dc needs....

I looked at a LOT of older MCT posts, can you tell me a few things -

1) Why do so many like it? What is the "different approach"??

2) How do concepts "stick" if there is no repetition?

3) Is it fast paced? (couldn't tell from the samples..)

4) When you say its not everyones cup of tea - what do you mean... sorry I've read this in other posts, but not clear why...

 

Thanks so much for helping!

 

As far as it being for gifted kids and no repetition...it is very easy to do with any kid, it is just written for the very underserved population who thrive with things approached from a different angle. If you noticed, it has 2 grade levels per level, but it can even be more flexible than that. That is just a general guideline. So don't worry about the gifted label in that respect. As far as repetition goes, MCT front loads the grammar (taught quickly and thoroughly in the beginning) then you solidify the content in the practice sentences. It is then reinforced with the Sentence Island book, but you can get by w/o it. (It is really great.) . He doesn't teach diagramming in the elementary level, but his 4-level analysis... which is simple, intuitive and elegant. So, it has built in review and instruction THROUGH the practice, but not actual repetition. They also start easy and progress to harder content.

 

now to answer your questions.... from my point of view.

 

1) Why do so many like it? What is the "different approach"??

 

I don't know how many like it. I know that the MCT HS yahoo group has over 1000 members, but I really have no idea how many actually use it, here or off in the wide, wide world. We are just very happy with it, and can't help but gush. ;) I think one of the reasons it garners so much :001_wub: is that it is presented in such a non-traditional style. It presents the info in whimsical, yet intensely meaningful and simple ways. It exudes it own joy of language. It shows not just the tiny details but the big WHY about language, why it should matter, why it is important, how it is beautiful when stripped down to it's bare essentials. There is a lot of LA curr. out there, but nothing that does THAT. It also involves a lot of discussion. The retention level is really high because of all this wrapped up together. Not everyone is going to "get it" or feel that way. Every one is different, with different tastes.

 

The "different approach" is that it is taught with a storyline involving fish, ducks, pelicans and various quirky situations. With humor but not, funny HA HA or crass humor. It also does not involve ANY worksheets (unless you consider the practice books that) and encourages, practically demands, lengthy Socratic discussion. You sit on the couch, together, or separately and read through it together. Stick a bookmark in it.

 

2) How do concepts "stick" if there is no repetition?

 

I think I addressed this in my opening segment. :D

 

3) Is it fast paced? (couldn't tell from the samples..)

 

It is at your pace. You are the "decider". It can be very fast paced, but you might find yourself going back over certain sections several times (how many times did we do "The Chaos on Pequod Street"?) for understanding or an encore.

 

4) When you say its not everyones cup of tea - what do you mean... sorry I've read this in other posts, but not clear why...

 

Well, if you or your kids don't like his humor or storylines, that is hard to get past. It is not scripted or easily scheduled. Like I said, stick a bookmark in it and go. Some people don't have the time to sit and do this WITH their kids. It is not a program you hand off to and ask to do an assignment. It is a bit "outside the box" but only in it's presentation, it's content is beyond the norm, even though it seems on the surface, a bit on the simple side. It is laying a foundation. If you are not comfortable in doing things "on your own", it might be daunting. Maybe not. It is a product that is hard to analyze until you use it. Hence, all the Q & A sessions on this board. :tongue_smilie:Trust me, I hesitated in saying one word when I saw your post.

 

You were asking for Grammar, and I think that the stuff I suggested in the beginning were good for what you are looking for. Those 3 books are good and if you liked that, Sentence Island is fantastic and also is the other part to solidifying the concepts taught in GI. MCT is best when used completely, but I can see each of it's components being able to be independent.

 

But you know what, everyone else's suggestions were good too. It is, in the end, your decision alone and I am just another HS mom with an opinion. :D

 

Ok, as usual, I am babbling. I am actually supposed to be doing some lessons now, but I really can't get motivated. I hope I answered your questions, and you can put them into your hopper.

[MariannNOVA]

As far as it being for gifted kids and no repetition...it is very easy to do with any kid, it is just written for the very underserved population who thrive with things approached from a different angle. If you noticed, it has 2 grade levels per level, but it can even be more flexible than that. That is just a general guideline. So don't worry about the gifted label in that respect. As far as repetition goes, MCT front loads the grammar (taught quickly and thoroughly in the beginning) then you solidify the content in the practice sentences. It is then reinforced with the Sentence Island book, but you can get by w/o it. (It is really great.) . He doesn't teach diagramming in the elementary level, but his 4-level analysis... which is simple, intuitive and elegant. So, it has built in review and instruction THROUGH the practice, but not actual repetition. They also start easy and progress to harder content.

 

now to answer your questions.... from my point of view.

 

1) Why do so many like it? What is the "different approach"??

 

I don't know how many like it. I know that the MCT HS yahoo group has over 1000 members, but I really have no idea how many actually use it, here or off in the wide, wide world. We are just very happy with it, and can't help but gush. ;) I think one of the reasons it garners so much :001_wub: is that it is presented in such a non-traditional style. It presents the info in whimsical, yet intensely meaningful and simple ways. It exudes it own joy of language. It shows not just the tiny details but the big WHY about language, why it should matter, why it is important, how it is beautiful when stripped down to it's bare essentials. There is a lot of LA curr. out there, but nothing that does THAT. It also involves a lot of discussion. The retention level is really high because of all this wrapped up together. Not everyone is going to "get it" or feel that way. Every one is different, with different tastes.

 

The "different approach" is that it is taught with a storyline involving fish, ducks, pelicans and various quirky situations. With humor but not, funny HA HA or crass humor. It also does not involve ANY worksheets (unless you consider the practice books that) and encourages, practically demands, lengthy Socratic discussion. You sit on the couch, together, or separately and read through it together. Stick a bookmark in it.

 

2) How do concepts "stick" if there is no repetition?

 

I think I addressed this in my opening segment. :D

 

3) Is it fast paced? (couldn't tell from the samples..)

 

It is at your pace. You are the "decider". It can be very fast paced, but you might find yourself going back over certain sections several times (how many times did we do "The Chaos on Pequod Street"?) for understanding or an encore.

 

4) When you say its not everyones cup of tea - what do you mean... sorry I've read this in other posts, but not clear why...

 

Well, if you or your kids don't like his humor or storylines, that is hard to get past. It is not scripted or easily scheduled. Like I said, stick a bookmark in it and go. Some people don't have the time to sit and do this WITH their kids. It is not a program you hand off to and ask to do an assignment. It is a bit "outside the box" but only in it's presentation, it's content is beyond the norm, even though it seems on the surface, a bit on the simple side. It is laying a foundation. If you are not comfortable in doing things "on your own", it might be daunting. Maybe not. It is a product that is hard to analyze until you use it. Hence, all the Q & A sessions on this board. :tongue_smilie:Trust me, I hesitated in saying one word when I saw your post.

 

You were asking for Grammar, and I think that the stuff I suggested in the beginning were good for what you are looking for. Those 3 books are good and if you liked that, Sentence Island is fantastic and also is the other part to solidifying the concepts taught in GI. MCT is best when used completely, but I can see each of it's components being able to be independent.

 

But you know what, everyone else's suggestions were good too. It is, in the end, your decision alone and I am just another HS mom with an opinion. :D

 

Ok, as usual, I am babbling. I am actually supposed to be doing some lessons now, but I really can't get motivated. I hope I answered your questions, and you can put them into your hopper.

 

 

Korin: I think you've hit all the high points -- I have nothing to add. Now, about that cocktail? ;)

[SS in MD]

As far as it being for gifted kids and no repetition...it is very easy to do with any kid, it is just written for the very underserved population who thrive with things approached from a different angle. If you noticed, it has 2 grade levels per level, but it can even be more flexible than that. That is just a general guideline. So don't worry about the gifted label in that respect. As far as repetition goes, MCT front loads the grammar (taught quickly and thoroughly in the beginning) then you solidify the content in the practice sentences. It is then reinforced with the Sentence Island book, but you can get by w/o it. (It is really great.) . He doesn't teach diagramming in the elementary level, but his 4-level analysis... which is simple, intuitive and elegant. So, it has built in review and instruction THROUGH the practice, but not actual repetition. They also start easy and progress to harder content.

 

now to answer your questions.... from my point of view.

 

1) Why do so many like it? What is the "different approach"??

 

I don't know how many like it. I know that the MCT HS yahoo group has over 1000 members, but I really have no idea how many actually use it, here or off in the wide, wide world. We are just very happy with it, and can't help but gush. ;) I think one of the reasons it garners so much :001_wub: is that it is presented in such a non-traditional style. It presents the info in whimsical, yet intensely meaningful and simple ways. It exudes it own joy of language. It shows not just the tiny details but the big WHY about language, why it should matter, why it is important, how it is beautiful when stripped down to it's bare essentials. There is a lot of LA curr. out there, but nothing that does THAT. It also involves a lot of discussion. The retention level is really high because of all this wrapped up together. Not everyone is going to "get it" or feel that way. Every one is different, with different tastes.

 

The "different approach" is that it is taught with a storyline involving fish, ducks, pelicans and various quirky situations. With humor but not, funny HA HA or crass humor. It also does not involve ANY worksheets (unless you consider the practice books that) and encourages, practically demands, lengthy Socratic discussion. You sit on the couch, together, or separately and read through it together. Stick a bookmark in it.

 

2) How do concepts "stick" if there is no repetition?

 

I think I addressed this in my opening segment. :D

 

3) Is it fast paced? (couldn't tell from the samples..)

 

It is at your pace. You are the "decider". It can be very fast paced, but you might find yourself going back over certain sections several times (how many times did we do "The Chaos on Pequod Street"?) for understanding or an encore.

 

4) When you say its not everyones cup of tea - what do you mean... sorry I've read this in other posts, but not clear why...

 

Well, if you or your kids don't like his humor or storylines, that is hard to get past. It is not scripted or easily scheduled. Like I said, stick a bookmark in it and go. Some people don't have the time to sit and do this WITH their kids. It is not a program you hand off to and ask to do an assignment. It is a bit "outside the box" but only in it's presentation, it's content is beyond the norm, even though it seems on the surface, a bit on the simple side. It is laying a foundation. If you are not comfortable in doing things "on your own", it might be daunting. Maybe not. It is a product that is hard to analyze until you use it. Hence, all the Q & A sessions on this board. :tongue_smilie:Trust me, I hesitated in saying one word when I saw your post.

 

You were asking for Grammar, and I think that the stuff I suggested in the beginning were good for what you are looking for. Those 3 books are good and if you liked that, Sentence Island is fantastic and also is the other part to solidifying the concepts taught in GI. MCT is best when used completely, but I can see each of it's components being able to be independent.

 

But you know what, everyone else's suggestions were good too. It is, in the end, your decision alone and I am just another HS mom with an opinion. :D

 

Ok, as usual, I am babbling. I am actually supposed to be doing some lessons now, but I really can't get motivated. I hope I answered your questions, and you can put them into your hopper.

 

Korin,

 

Thank you SO much for your post and great explainations.

 

I would like to try MCT, and see how she absorbs it. Perhaps a different approach may help dd. I haven't finalized dds vocab or writing curriculums, but plan to use AAS for spelling. Would you suggest I buy a package? or first simply try Grammar Island (TM & Student) then if things seem to be going well and dd is retaining, should I buy the rest (vocabulary, writing, poetry, practice)??

 

A big question, I saw on the RWP website, you first to go thru' grammar book (Grammar Island) approx 1st quarter, then start the practice book, alongside vocabulary, writing and poetry. Is that correct?? If so, how do you plan your dc's daily schedule for all these components? I was a little unsure (I'm use to a schedule!!! lol) How often do you teach each? (Vocab twice a week? Writing three times?? what about poetry & practice - is that daily?

 

I know there are a *ton* of posts regarding MCT. But, perhaps I didn't search properly, but couldn't find any about scheduling, so thank you *very* much for explaining the "ropes"!

 

Sangita

dd(14) - starts high school!!

dd(12) - 7th

dd(9) - 4th

ds(6) - 1st

[radiobrain]

Korin,

 

Thank you SO much for your post and great explainations.

 

I would like to try MCT, and see how she absorbs it. Perhaps a different approach may help dd. I haven't finalized dds vocab or writing curriculums, but plan to use AAS for spelling. Would you suggest I buy a package? or first simply try Grammar Island (TM & Student) then if things seem to be going well and dd is retaining, should I buy the rest (vocabulary, writing, poetry, practice)??

 

A big question, I saw on the RWP website, you first to go thru' grammar book (Grammar Island) approx 1st quarter, then start the practice book, alongside vocabulary, writing and poetry. Is that correct?? If so, how do you plan your dc's daily schedule for all these components? I was a little unsure (I'm use to a schedule!!! lol) How often do you teach each? (Vocab twice a week? Writing three times?? what about poetry & practice - is that daily?

 

I know there are a *ton* of posts regarding MCT. But, perhaps I didn't search properly, but couldn't find any about scheduling, so thank you *very* much for explaining the "ropes"!

 

Sangita

dd(14) - starts high school!!

dd(12) - 7th

dd(9) - 4th

ds(6) - 1st

 

If you were already leaning that way... ;)

 

I don't know if you should or shouldn't buy the whole package. I think that the Vocab book, while good, is the weakest of the series. Maybe it is just that my boys were already very wordy, knew a lot of it, and there is a heavy Spanish correlation to it, and we are always attempting to learn Italian and it muddies up my life. I also don't know if you are wanting to do poetics or not.

 

My personal opinion is that you get Grammar Island (TM only.. you don't need the SM unless you want it...some people do) Practice Island TM & SM, and Sentence Island. Sentence Island doesn't have very much actual writing in it (it has a lot of choices of assignments, but I don't think I did any of them). These books will work on what you want to cover. Whether or not you get the package is up to you. If you wanted to, you only need the Basic Package.

 

I am starting Voyage level this year, and am starting to wish I had a SB for Essay Voyage, but for earlier levels it is really a matter of preference.

 

How you schedule is up to you too... I am not a very good scheduler, I just decide how many times per week I do which. The order you described from the website is correct, although I have never watched it....I try to do practice book 3-4X per week. I know on the yahoo group some people have posted various schedules they have come up with.

 

Maybe someone else will have another opinion. I say, stick with the minimum for what you need, and if you and your daughter like it as much as we do, you can get the package when you move up to Town level, or buy the other 2 books when you feel like it. I think that the vocab and poetics at that age are gravy, but necessary at the next level.

 

Remember, MCT is not some sort of magic curriculum. It is just a very different approach to LA that resonates with a lot of parents and kids, where other programs have fallen flat. It might not work like that with you. I would hope it does, as you already seem to be leaning it that direction. Seriously though, any curriculum you choose will be good and get the job done. I still think that doing Mad Libs and other language games can really help in this department as well.

 

Good luck, and I hope you get something out of my opinion.

 

Korin

 

~Just a homeschooling mom sitting at my computer, who has used and loved MCTLA for 2 levels, and planning on using it until I exhaust all the levels. I have had the pleasure of seeing MCT lecture at their first HS convention and help out Dr. Tom at the booth. I wax poetic about this curriculum as it is my favorite, and I see it's value every day. It is my best HS $$ spent (on books, at least) and I wish more things were written in this way. Life of Fred is the closest I have found so far, which we also love, as it is written with the same love of subject and quite a bit of humor...

Edited August 3, 2010 by radiobrain
I broke a sentence!

[SS in MD]

Korin,

Thank you again for helping me muddle thru' MCT! The post was very helpful - thanks for giving me your opinion on what to buy. I'll try the Mad Libs & games - great idea! We already have those!

 

Thank you again for all your advice!

Sangita