Which is simpler to use: MFW or SL?

[3Rivers]

STilllllll trying to decide....

 

:banghead:

[rousselab]

I have used MFW and reviewed Sonlight and MFW TMs again today at our homeschooling fair. I have to say that for me MFW is the clear winner. Not only is it well organized, but it has everything that we were looking for in a curriculum. What helped me the most was hearing David speak about MFW. It answered many of my questions. I can tell you where to hear him speak if you think that would help. Just pm me if you would like to listen. :)

[MerryAtHope]

The TM's for MFW look so clear and organized...but we love the SL readers and read-alouds! (I haven't done MFW, only have drooled over their guides. I've done SL Prek-5, some years "straight SL," some years more eclectic. We're starting Mystery of History now with the SL readers & read-alouds, and really enjoying it!).

 

Merry :-)

[Angel]

I have used SL Core 7, MFW Adventures, MFW RtoR, and MFW AH&L. MFW wins hands down for me in ease of use! Both programs are laid out in a weekly grid format. However, MFW is just simpler. Maybe it's the print type, maybe it's the bigger boxes, I'm not sure. We did SL after MFW RtoR and it took me a while to get where exactly they wanted me to go in the SL Core. Plus the Cores are so BIG that I had to pull out about six weeks at a time to put in a smaller binder because the bigger binder was so hard to carry around and use. I found the amount of work in the MFW schedule to be easier to finish as well. I can't tell you how much of the SL Core we skipped because if we got behind it was nigh impossible to catch up. The amount of reading...OY!!. MFW was easier to catch up if we missed a day or two because the amount of reading was doable.

 

Hope that helps! SL was just not our best year :glare: The most successful years we have had have been with MFW.

[urban mama]

another vote for MFW for ease of use. I have used both, SL for 3 years, a year of MFW, another year of SL and now back to MFW for the fall. This is where we will now stay. SL has many great features, but the ease of use and the lack of "flipping" from IG to IG are what has sold us!

[Mom0012]

I have used SL from the beginning and love it, but I also did squeeze in MFW Adventures a few years ago during the summer just to try something different. I think both programs are very pick-up-and-go and both are enjoyable. The only thing that required a little more from me with MFW was making the time for some of the hands-on activities and crafts. It's not that it takes more time since MFW Adventures had a lot less reading scheduled, it's just that I enjoy reading to my kids more than I enjoy the hands-on stuff and I felt like my particular kids learn more from the reading than the activities.

 

Of course, beginning a few months ago, I have been trying to add in more hands-on to SL for my daughter with the TT cds.

 

Anyway, both programs are great in my opinion. It just depends on what you want to focus on and how biblical of a program you want. SL does not have the religious feel to it that MFW does. I actually enjoyed the bible portion of MFW but it really seemed to turn my kids off. I think it seemed like I was lecturing to them more versus what they had been used to - just reading the bible.

 

Lisa

 

ETA: To me, the MFW IG and SL IG are set up very similarly. The only time I "flip" in the SL IG is to get to the reading comprehension questions, but I don't find it overly cumbersome. I just put a bookmark in the comprehension section of whatever book we are reading. I do use SL Science and I put each week's science schedule right behind the main core schedule. I do not use SL LA and never have, so maybe that would make the IG more cumbersome?

Edited July 25, 2010 by LisaTheresa

[3Rivers]

Thanks for your input!

Okay two things I am curious about...that I can't see from looking at the online samples:

 

1) How much prep time is involved to do the crafts, including choosing which ones to do?

 

2) Tell me more about the biblical aspect. We are conservative Christians, but I prefer to let the Scriptures speak for themselves rather than people teaching theology/doctrine which is open to interpretation and contextual issues.

 

One more thing: Is it accurate to say that the primary differences between these two is that: a) Sonlight has more reading vs. MFW who adds in hands-on in place of a lot of reading and b) the approach to faith/Bible (which I haven't been able to define at this point)?

[Mom0012]

Thanks for your input!

Okay two things I am curious about...that I can't see from looking at the online samples:

 

1) How much prep time is involved to do the crafts, including choosing which ones to do?

 

2) Tell me more about the biblical aspect. We are conservative Christians, but I prefer to let the Scriptures speak for themselves rather than people teaching theology/doctrine which is open to interpretation and contextual issues.

 

One more thing: Is it accurate to say that the primary differences between these two is that: a) Sonlight has more reading vs. MFW who adds in hands-on in place of a lot of reading and b) the approach to faith/Bible (which I haven't been able to define at this point)?

 

In the Adventures program, the prep time for the crafts was very minimal. I agree with how you describe the differences, except that I would just say that SL has more scheduled reading than MFW. You can add a lot more reading with MFW if you use the book basket suggestions. If you just stick with what's scheduled, then the reading is significantly less. I can't really answer the question about the biblical aspect. I thought it was done very nicely and got a lot out of it, but, like I said, my kids didn't seem to "get" what they were supposed to from the lessons and sometimes I felt like I was lecturing. It's been a number of years since I used it, so hopefully someone else can help you out more with that question.

 

Lisa

[Julie]

Jamie,

 

I have used both and MFW gets my vote for ease, book selection, notebooking and the hands on activities. I really liked Sonlight, but often it felt like all we ever did was read. I like that MFW offers notebooking, which I added to Sonlight, and hands on things. Additionlly I prefer their book selection, better choices for my kids.

 

What impresses me most about MFW is that if you use thier curriculam K-12 you student will have read the entire Bible 3 times. I don't know of any other curriculam that offers this.

 

My 2 cents. :)

[Rebecca]

I noticed that no one chose Sonlight for ease of you.

 

I am chiming in... because I am the dissenting vote! ;)

 

I find Sonlight far, far easier to use than MFW.

I love SL IG's. I love that everything is there for me. I love the springboard for discussion, and all the different notes...

The IG is far more intuitive for me than the MFW teacher's manual.

I sigh relief when I see the reminder for science experiment supplies, know I have my science kit ready to go, and the DVD to watch and help.

The science doesn't overwhelm me as far as gathering supplies, creating experiments, etc.

 

MFW is very kinesthetic in my opinion. This tires me very much.

 

Also- I prefer to learn from books with the IG as a "helper". I found with MFW the teacher's manual directed our day and the resources were there to round out the teaching in the manual.

 

I always find it really helpful to download samples of the IG/teacher manual and study them... envision myself using it.

 

I hope this helps!

Rebecca

[Donna T.]

I find Sonlight far, far easier to use than MFW.

I love SL IG's. I love that everything is there for me. I love the springboard for discussion, and all the different notes...The IG is far more intuitive for me than the MFW teacher's manual.

I sigh relief when I see the reminder for science experiment supplies, know I have my science kit ready to go, and the DVD to watch and help.

The science doesn't overwhelm me as far as gathering supplies, creating experiments, etc.

 

Also- I prefer to learn from books with the IG as a "helper". I found with MFW the teacher's manual directed our day and the resources were there to round out the teaching in the manual.

 

I always find it really helpful to download samples of the IG/teacher manual and study them... envision myself using it.

 

I hope this helps!

Rebecca

 

:iagree:

[Donna A.]

Thanks for your input!

1) How much prep time is involved to do the crafts, including choosing which ones to do?

 

Very little. In fact, I've chosen to stay with MFW a couple of different times, in part, for this reason. Compared to Weaver and TOG, MFW prep time is quite minimal. At the beginning of the TM there are teacher's tips and a section on "preparing" which explain what you need to do to set up for the year (the online samples don't show this section), and then at the beginning of each week is a short list of consumable supplies needed for that week. When I do my shopping list for the week, I look ahead at the short list for the coming week and make sure I've got everything I need, then simply add whatever's missing to my weekly shopping list. MOST of the time, I already have on hand everything I need.

 

Deciding which activities to do is just as simple. When you look at the weekly grid for the coming week, you'll occasionally see a box that has (See Notes) underneath an assignment. In that case, you go to the notes for that day (which follow the weekly grid you're looking at) and see what Marie says about it. Sometimes it's just information for you, the teacher, and sometimes it's a hands-on activity.

 

If you buy 1st edition used, there are Appendix pages in the back of the TM that you'll need to photocopy, one for each child doing the program. But if you buy 2nd edition, you get the Appendix pages already done for you as a separate pack of Student Sheets. (They adjusted the price of the TM accordingly when they made this change.) Appendix/Student pages include things like the maps they'll be working on, coloring pages, examples of an object that you're learning about (such as the Declaration of Independence), and in the case of ECC, the geography game which is prepared in color and on cardstock. So all those things are included and prepared for you.

 

I think I've made this sound more complicated than it is... it's really not. :glare:

 

 

2) Tell me more about the biblical aspect. We are conservative Christians, but I prefer to let the Scriptures speak for themselves rather than people teaching theology/doctrine which is open to interpretation and contextual issues.

 

The folks at MFW are of various Christian denominations... the Christian Church, Vineyard, Baptist, non-denominational (IFCA), Lutheran... just to name a few that I know of. They don't put any specific denominational slant into the curriculum. For example, they teach about communion in the context of studying bread/yeast and Jesus as the Bread of Life, but don't tell you how you are to perform it or when. They teach that there will be "a new heaven and a new earth" by assigning a reading of Revelation 21 at one point, but don't tell you when or how it will come about. They teach that Jesus will come again, but don't tell you how or when. Those kinds of specifics are up to you, the parent.

 

So it's just the basic tenents of Christianity in general that MFW teaches. You do a LOT of Bible reading (large chunks of both the Old and New Testaments in elementary, and then a cover-to-cover reading of both in high school), church history, reading of missionary bios, and focus on the Gospel and service to Christ. You can find information about their missions focus (Bible translation) and missionary & discipleship training on their website.

 

One more thing: Is it accurate to say that the primary differences between these two is that: a) Sonlight has more reading vs. MFW who adds in hands-on in place of a lot of reading and b) the approach to faith/Bible (which I haven't been able to define at this point)?

 

SL has more *scheduled* reading. MFW uses many different resources for your actual study time together (research and reading from different perspectives and authors), a *few* scheduled read-alouds throughout the year, and then they provide Book Basket which is completely optional for those who have time and interest. Book Basket usually contains about 300-400 titles in every genre, from children's picture books to adult level reading, as well as educational videos. The list is sorted by week # and topic. The author has asterisked those titles which she recommends for purchase if you prefer not to use to the library.

 

HTH. :)

[3Rivers]

I keep flopping back and forth. :confused:

I looked at the Sonlight IG sample page again... I wonder if any of you Sonlighters find it hard to get in all the reading in a day?

[mompotter]

I keep flopping back and forth. :confused:

I looked at the Sonlight IG sample page again... I wonder if any of you Sonlighters find it hard to get in all the reading in a day?

 

I guess it depends on what core/s you are doing. In the early cores we were adding in books because my kids wanted them. From about core 3 on, we have dropped books from the schedule. Some we pick up and read in the summer. Some are just not books that anyone is interested in. I will be doing core 2 and 7 this year and will plan to drop a couple books from both cores. That helps us if we get behind but also takes some of the pressure off. I am learning not to be a "box checker" . ;)

[Mom0012]

I keep flopping back and forth. :confused:

I looked at the Sonlight IG sample page again... I wonder if any of you Sonlighters find it hard to get in all the reading in a day?

 

The reading really hasn't taken that long until Core 3. Up to then, we're talking 30, maybe 40 minutes. There have been a few days in Core 3, when I was reading for a little over an hour and we had activities scheduled in the afternoon where I felt kind of anxious to get the reading done with. But, really, when you think you are covering history, science and literature in that time, it really isn't much at all.

 

Also, I subscribe to the belief that reading aloud is one of the most important things I can do for my children. Pudewa has a tape on this that really encourages me about this. My son has a language disorder and yet, he has a very high vocabulary and reads above grade level. I attribute this to all the listening he's done. Also, he has become such a good listener, that he can always fall back on that if he does have trouble when he gets to college by listening to his books on cd.

 

Lisa

[Leslie in TN]

I keep flopping back and forth. :confused:

I looked at the Sonlight IG sample page again... I wonder if any of you Sonlighters find it hard to get in all the reading in a day?

 

Don't forget, you don't have to sit down and do all the readings in one "block". I know many who do this and enjoy it, but for us, we prefer to spread them out throughout the day. For example, Bible is done before or at breakfast time, history later in the morning, and the read-aloud as a bedtime reading.

 

Very do-able that way. :001_smile:

[SandKsmama]

I was all set to reply, then saw Donna A's post, and so now I can just type "Ditto!" and be done!!

[Evergreen Academy]

I have used both Sonlight (cores pk, K, 5 and 6), and MFW (Ex-1850). At times we felt bogged down with Sonlight, and I needed to give myself permission to not do everything, take a longer time with something that interested us, or skip a book that we didn't have time for or didn't love. I didn't love the TMs and mostly used them as a schedule - I found the explanations long-winded, and didn't often use them. I preferred to do things more CM style - read, narrate, discuss, look at a map if need be, digest and enjoy. We LOVED most of the books, and are re-reading some years later. The ease of getting all the books at once and having them on the shelf was wonderful.

 

MFW was delightfully easy to use at first, the TM is very straightforward. BUT in order to get the full, rich feel we'd come to love with Sonlight, I had to supplement a lot. The book basket is a nice way to do this, but let me tell you, I spent a lot of time finding books and a ton of money on library fines (my bad, I know). The history was very well done and integrated, but the children didn't love most of the read-alouds, and by year's end, were asking for the sorts of books we've used in the past.

 

The programs have very different feels to them - MFW feels like more straightforward history, and Sonlight, to me, has a more cultural aspect with a richer literature emphasis. The guides, the way I used them, were equal in their helpfulness, so for us it's a matter more of figuring out exactly what we want in a program. I am back to looking at catalogs and trying to decide between Sonlight and Biblioplan and some unknown program that may offer exactly what we need. Don't know if that helps, but it's my 2 cents!

Blessings,

Aimee

mom to 6 great kids ages 7-19, schooling grades 2, 4, 4 and 7

[Donna A.]

I would also suggest looking at not only the history component of a program and the books used for that, but Bible and other subjects, too. One thing I like about MFW is that you have ONE TM for ALL subjects.... not a separate IG for each thing. I like the simplicity (and flexibililty) of the week-at-a-glance, and having enough white space on the grid to fill in our own choice of whatever subjects we're using that don't come from MFW. (IOW, let's say I don't want to use Singapore math, which is what they recommend and provide lesson plans for... there's room for me to write in lesson #'s for my own math program.)

 

And I *love* how Bible is integrated with history so that you really learn not only secular history, but biblical history, too. You're learning the Bible *in context* of history and really connecting the dots. This has given us a much better understanding the Bible.

 

Oh, here's the other thing I wanted to mention... not sure how recordkeeping is done in your state, but I have to have a portfolio. The MFW notebooking serves that purpose. I also photocopy the weekly grid x the # of students I'm doing it with, and then I use those copies of the grid to write EACH child's math and LA on the grid and keep it at the front of their own notebook. This way everything's covered for recordkeeping, while individualized for each child. Easy peasy.

[Angel]

 

I love SL IG's. I love that everything is there for me. I love the springboard for discussion, and all the different notes...

 

Also- I prefer to learn from books with the IG as a "helper".

 

Rebecca

 

Ah, now I found that I was extremely disappointed with the SL IG. I felt there was NO springboard for discussion, just boring recall questions.

 

I keep flopping back and forth. :confused:

I looked at the Sonlight IG sample page again... I wonder if any of you Sonlighters find it hard to get in all the reading in a day?

 

Again, I did Core 7. We found it very difficult to get through the reading. There were many books that we had to drop because we got behind. That was one of the things I mentioned in my earlier post. When you get behind with SL, it is almost impossible to catch up.

 

I guess it all boils down to what you are looking for. If you want to read, read, read, then SL is your choice. If you want to read as well as narration and some hands-on activities, then MFW might be a better choice.

 

I guess that when you get down to it, for me, MFW allows me to control my schedule and my choices a bit more. It allows me to follow their reading schedule and still leaves time and resources (via the Book Basket list in the back of the TM) to follow the interests that my kids might want to dig deeper in. If they were enjoying a certain topic, we could do the hands-on activity and then get extra books from the Book Basket list to delve a little further. If we read a topic and they were done, then we could skip the extra books and even the hands-on without losing the integrity of the program. It was OUR choice. When we starting having to drop books out of SL7 then I felt we were "missing" core parts of the program. Quite honestly, they were tired by the end of the read alouds and it left no desire to dig a littler deeper.

 

That may have been a little bit of digression ;) I hope you figure it all out.

[3Rivers]

My problem is that BOTH look good! I like elements of both but I can't possibly DO both or even buy both...and tweaking it in order to combine elements of both defeats the purpose of buying a scheduled curriculum in the first place.

 

We did TOG last year and it was a bust. The best part of history and the ONE thing the kids all remembered from last year was a Sonlight read aloud leftover from Core 3 the year before (Tolliver's Secret). We all loved that book and after lunch reading time was pure joy.

 

However, looking at the Sonlight schedule for Core 4 makes me tremble in my boots... in the sample week there are 20 chapters to be read, not including the Bible reading or poetry. 20!!!! True, that is what I'm reading combined with what they are reading. Then there are the other subjects to consider...but I also agree with the importance of reading aloud and hearing good books and language and investing in that time with our children...

 

But then also the kids have requested more hands-on activities...said they missed that even though their favorite part of history was the reading last year...

 

I'm not trying to just please the children, but I do listen to what excites them about learning.

 

Ideally, I think I would buy Sonlight Core 4 for my daughter because she would read ALL the books probably before Christmas and beg for more. My son would be begging for mercy. I would get MFW for him....I would let her do HIS activities with him....let him listen in on HER read alouds..and use her readers for both...Little guy would tag along since he already has his own program.

Now wouldn't that be perfect...and then we could do school from sun-up to sundown and never leave the house. :lol:

 

Actually...how hard would it be to take elements from each? Is that completely nuts? :tongue_smilie:

[Lori in MS]

It seems to me the easiest thing would be to get a MFW program and add in the Sonlight books for your dd. Many of the Sonlight books are already on the book basket list.

[MamaJo]

SL all the way for me. I have no desire to do hands on stuff or notebooking.

[3Rivers]

Ah, now I found that I was extremely disappointed with the SL IG. I felt there was NO springboard for discussion, just boring recall questions.

 

 

 

Again, I did Core 7. We found it very difficult to get through the reading. There were many books that we had to drop because we got behind. That was one of the things I mentioned in my earlier post. When you get behind with SL, it is almost impossible to catch up.

 

I guess it all boils down to what you are looking for. If you want to read, read, read, then SL is your choice. If you want to read as well as narration and some hands-on activities, then MFW might be a better choice.

 

I guess that when you get down to it, for me, MFW allows me to control my schedule and my choices a bit more. It allows me to follow their reading schedule and still leaves time and resources (via the Book Basket list in the back of the TM) to follow the interests that my kids might want to dig deeper in. If they were enjoying a certain topic, we could do the hands-on activity and then get extra books from the Book Basket list to delve a little further. If we read a topic and they were done, then we could skip the extra books and even the hands-on without losing the integrity of the program. It was OUR choice. When we starting having to drop books out of SL7 then I felt we were "missing" core parts of the program. Quite honestly, they were tired by the end of the read alouds and it left no desire to dig a littler deeper.

 

 

You have made some very good points that remind me of things I experienced in Core 3. If we can't keep up with the reading schedule in SL, then there is not much point in having the schedule. I *could* just get some of the great read alouds/readers and use them in the book basket (thank you, Lori and others for mentioning that) rather than having them scheduled. At first I thought that I would be missing out on the discussion and notes from the IG, but now that I look back at our year with Core 3, I'm remembering the push to just....get....through...the...reading. Control over the schedule is a BIG deal. THAT right there may be the decision maker. Although the SL schedule looks simpler, the sheer volume of reading (except for ONE of my children) would be difficult to keep up with. Just knowing that I could *keep the integrity of the program* while still leaving some things out is HUGE.

 

Okay, I think I am actually starting to feel like I can breathe now...coming up for air. :) Thank you, Angel and everyone. It could be that everyone has been saying these same things all along, but for some reason everything suddenly, finally *clicked* for me right now. So thanks. :grouphug:

 

Edited to say....And now I will close the catalogs, quit searching curriculum, shut my eyes and put my fingers in my ears before I get tempted to look some more and change my mind again!!!! LOL

[Angel]

 

I *could* just get some of the great read alouds/readers and use them in the book basket (thank you, Lori and others for mentioning that) rather than having them scheduled. This would be an easy plan

I'm remembering the push to just....get....through...the...reading. That is exactly how I felt

 

Control over the schedule is a BIG deal. THAT right there may be the decision maker. Although the SL schedule looks simpler, the sheer volume of reading (except for ONE of my children) would be difficult to keep up with. Just knowing that I could *keep the integrity of the program* while still leaving some things out is HUGE. It was a huge relief when we had weeks that life just happened and my girls still got so much out of it.

 

Thank you, Angel and everyone. It could be that everyone has been saying these same things all along, but for some reason everything suddenly, finally *clicked* for me right now. So thanks. :grouphug:

 

 

 

Good luck!

[Donna T.]

If you like elements of each but aren't completely sold on either, you could take a look at Heart of Dakota, if you haven't already. It includes plenty of read-alouds (more than MFW, not as many as SL), readers, hands-on activities, art & poetry, science, history, Bible... it is very complete. I love it.

 

I like both SL and MFW, preferring SL. However, HOD is my favorite. In my opinion, SL needs more variety in lesson presentation and assignments, and MFW needs more independent reading and assignments for older students. In my opinion, that is MFW's weakness... the focus on multi-level learning (requiring mom to do much of the reading outloud) leaves little for an older student to do on their own. In my opinion, SL's weakness is that there are practically no assignments, other than reading, mapping, sticking a figure on a timeline, and talking. We actually love all that, so we do like SL, but it doesn't have the variety that HOD has. Like SL and MFW, HOD is all planned out for you but it includes the variety that SL lacks and the higher level reading that MFW lacks for the older students. Yes, MFW has a book basket for you to add reading for your older student but it's not all scheduled out for you with assignments like HOD.

 

And, it is very easy to use.

 

http://www.heartofdakota.com

[Donna T.]

 

 

Edited to say....And now I will close the catalogs, quit searching curriculum, shut my eyes and put my fingers in my ears before I get tempted to look some more and change my mind again!!!! LOL

 

Oh, I'm sorry!! I didn't see this before I posted the Heart of Dakota recommendation.

[3Rivers]

haha That's funny!!! And certainly okay that you posted! :D

I looked at HOD after so many people have raved about it. I didn't see how it:

a) would help me continue with latter American history to stay on track

b) work with my older DD who is entering Jr. High. It also didn't have much for highschool, it seemed. It "looked" like older students were "added on". IOW, it seemed geared toward the younger student, which is why I never looked at it in earnest.

 

Plus, every time I looked at the web site I just went "huh?" I took that as a sign that HOD wasn't for me but if I am missing something big I would love to know.

[momof8]

I have only used Sonlight but I REALLY love it. It is easy to use with the whole year scheduled but you do not have to be a slave to the schedule. The literature selections are fabulous. The kids and I learned sooo much together.

I totally recommend Sonlight!!!!

[melmichigan]

I use SL, but I have all the catalogs from TOG, MFW, WP, etc. I like the SL schedule done for me, but I have no problem following the "use the IG as a resource" tip and adding in whatever hands on activities and additional reading that I want from all those other catalogs. I have no problem dropping a book that isn't working or subbing in something we might like better. I also don't panic if I'm not on the week I'm "supposed" to be on and I do a 4-day schedule to allow myself some flexibility each week. I love rabbit trails, the unscheduled kind are using the most rewarding. I refused to be ruled by a curriculum. :D

 

Probably no help, but just thought I'd add it as food for thought.

[Donna T.]

haha That's funny!!! And certainly okay that you posted! :D

I looked at HOD after so many people have raved about it. I didn't see how it:

a) would help me continue with latter American history to stay on track

 

Oh, I didn't catch that earlier. I understand that would be a priority for you. When you used TOG, what spine did you use? If you used The Story of the World, then it would make sense to pick MFW. I'm sure you have considered that Core 4 is American History and MFW's Year 4 is both American and World History.

b) work with my older DD who is entering Jr. High. It also didn't have much for highschool, it seemed. It "looked" like older students were "added on".

The author is in the process of writing additional programs. Right now, there are two middle school level programs, one for the Ancient time period and one for the Middle Ages. There will be two history focused guides after that and then atleast one high school course, a cultures/geography course. Bigger Hearts for His Glory would be just right for a fourth grader. It covers all of American History but focuses on more modern American History. It has extensions for older students but not enough for a 12 year old. The author is GREAT about giving advice on how to adapt programs and she has made suggestions on what to use with a middle aged student while using that program with a 4th grader. That info. would be at their message board. I have written all that down somewhere around here. I do recall she has recommended George Washington's World, The Story of the Thirteen Colonies and The Story of the Great Republic as the main spines for an older student. The next two guides that will be published will focus on American history within the context of World History.

IOW, it seemed geared toward the younger student, which is why I never looked at it in earnest.

 

Plus, every time I looked at the web site I just went "huh?" I don't know! LOL! It's all very straight-forward to me. I've heard some say that the print catalog is alot easier to navigate. I took that as a sign that HOD wasn't for me but if I am missing something big I would love to know.

 

I really think that MFW and SL are pretty comparable as far as ease of use. Not a big difference really. You will probably have to find some other factor to make your decision because both are easy to use, SL being a little more open and go because you would have all of your books gathered already and wouldn't have to plan for activities that are scheduled (though you can easily add those in, if you want to). When we have used SL, it was just completely open and go. I never even looked ahead to see what we were going to do. It's all laid out for you. MFW does use alot of SL books (in the appendix, not scheduled). I LOVE SL's book notes but you may not need/want those.

[Donna A.]

I like both SL and MFW, preferring SL. However, HOD is my favorite. In my opinion, SL needs more variety in lesson presentation and assignments, and MFW needs more independent reading and assignments for older students. In my opinion, that is MFW's weakness... the focus on multi-level learning (requiring mom to do much of the reading outloud) leaves little for an older student to do on their own. In my opinion, SL's weakness is that there are practically no assignments, other than reading, mapping, sticking a figure on a timeline, and talking. We actually love all that, so we do like SL, but it doesn't have the variety that HOD has. Like SL and MFW, HOD is all planned out for you but it includes the variety that SL lacks and the higher level reading that MFW lacks for the older students. Yes, MFW has a book basket for you to add reading for your older student but it's not all scheduled out for you with assignments like HOD.

 

I've never found this to be a problem with my older students using MFW. ;) In fact, some have complained about MFW using texts that are too advanced for younger children! :lol:

 

MFW uses many different resources in each package, and there's something there for every learning level from ECC and up. Assignments for "advanced" students are clearly marked in the ECC through 1850-Modern manuals, as far as the scheduled readings go. (And we've used every level of MFW from K-9th grade.) As far as Book Basket goes... there's such variety there that finding enough age-appropriate books for *each* of my girls have NEVER been an issue. They read on their own All.The.Time. Even my middle girl -- the one who at one time didn't even WANT to learn how to read :tongue_smilie: -- has picked up her independent reading within the past year or so. Sometimes those readings are from Book Basket, and sometimes it's scheduled reading in the lesson plans. (Like right now, I'm doing EX1850 and the ADV supplement with my 11 and 7 year olds. My 11yo reads *most* of the assigned books either on her own while I work with the 7yo, or out loud to her sister and I. My 14yo is working almost completely independent as a 9th grader.)

 

Also, this mom doesn't do nearly as much reading aloud as she would if she were doing SL or HOD with a younger child. :D One of the beauties of multi-level learning is that you have everyone learning *together*, and all the readers take turns reading. Even the little gal gets some short passages to practice with... and this makes her happy. :) (She has grade-level reading practice in her phonics program, as well as any other readers I decide to throw in there from Book Basket or other sources.)

 

If we were using SL, we'd have to be doing three different cores, and I'd have to be doing a LOT more reading aloud. Why? Because virtually all of it would have to be read to the little gal at her level. Then I'd have to read aloud a good bit of the middle gal's core, too, because of the content material. Lots of questionable books in SL, to which they even admit, but I don't know that there's warnings for the parent to pre-screen or anything like that? Marie (author of MFW) has pre-read every single book (and previewed every video) on the MFW list and noted questionable content, appropriate age level, etc. That's made my job easier when going through the list to pick which ones I want to order from the library. I don't have to pre-read everything. I love that! :thumbup:

[Nakia]

We used MFW for 2 years, and we are switching to SL for this year. The main reason is that I hated having to track down the books for the book basket list in MFW. Our library is pathetic in the children's resource department, so it just couldn't work for us. When I first got the SL guide, it look a bit overwhelming, but once I got it all in order, it seems to be really easy to use!

 

I do think both programs are great. I hope you figure it out and are happy with your choice!

[Donna T.]

I've never found this to be a problem with my older students using MFW. ;) In fact, some have complained about MFW using texts that are too advanced for younger children! :lol:

 

 

 

I was sharing my opinion. :)

 

What would a 7th grader using, just for example, Exploration to 1850, read for themselves other than books from the appendix? I have always wanted to know. I purchased the TM so I could see what they recommend and it recommended that every spine book be read outloud, even the book that is specifically for older students. I'm sure that's so that you can discuss the contents of the book. I understand that and I think that's a good suggestion for that particular book but it didn't have any assigned independent reading. Of course, if you don't want that planned for you, the book lists in the appendix are awesome, but I did expect to find something assigned for the older student to read for himself.

 

If that were the case, if MFW included advanced reading material for the older students (not read-alouds) we would probably be using MFW now. I just don't want to have to pull that together for myself from the book lists.

[Donna A.]

I was sharing my opinion. :)

 

I know, and I was sharing mine from my perspective, which is from having used every level through 9th grade. Just providing more insight into how it works from a practical standpoint. :001_smile:

 

 

What would a 7th grader using, just for example, Exploration to 1850, read for themselves other than books from the appendix? I have always wanted to know. I purchased the TM so I could see what they recommend and it recommended that every spine book be read outloud, even the book that is specifically for older students. I'm sure that's so that you can discuss the contents of the book. I understand that and I think that's a good suggestion for that particular book but it didn't have any assigned independent reading. Of course, if you don't want that planned for you, the book lists in the appendix are awesome, but I did expect to find something assigned for the older student to read for himself.

 

She reads pretty much everything on her own except Building a City on a Hill, which we read together while the 7yo does something else. *Everything* on the main grid on the left side of the page in both EX1850 and 1850MOD is for the older students ("older" being 4th-8th grades), and they did it this way because of content (getting into wars and all that); thus, the separate Adventures supplement package for 2nd/3rd graders and below. The 2nd/3rd grade specific assignments are on the right side of the page. I decide how much (if any) of the stuff on the left side my 2nd grader can do. She still has her own math, reading, LA, art, and lots of other stuff to do 1-on-1 with Mom. No one is being ignored.

 

The thing to keep in mind is that recommendations are just that.... recommendations. Recommendations can be followed in whole or in part, or completely ignored. When it comes down to the actual nitty-gritty of doing it, I'm the parent... I decide. :D

[3Rivers]

About Sonlight -- I think I don't know *how* to tweak and toss as necessary in order to work with the grid. Thing is, I would love it with my DD and some day may just let her do a Core on her own. But I know I would have to adjust a lot for the 4th grader in order to use Core 4 for both. I'm not sure how I would do that just from looking at it. I'm open to suggestions though.

 

Otherwise, I'm also not concerned about having MFW meet every single educational need, even IF it would not challenge enough in the reading content (based on what has been said here.) I have no problem just assigning ind. reading to my older child. Plus there are plenty of other challenging subjects coming her way from math, science and language arts. She will be a busy girl.

[melmichigan]

But I know I would have to adjust a lot for the 4th grader in order to use Core 4 for both. I'm not sure how I would do that just from looking at it. I'm open to suggestions though.

 

I'm not sure what you mean with core 4, my 4th graders will do core 4, but we aren't there yet, so maybe I'm missing something. We are adding in some of the books from 3 an 4 with my DD's run through 7 and 100, but only those she hasn't already read because she was beyond those cores when we started SL.

 

If you like the books but are worried about time, have you considered the fact that you don't have to do a whole core over 36 weeks? My older DD is working through core 6, we ended at week 24, because that was where we were. :) Just another thought.

 

(I can't say much about MFW because I add many of their books and activities to SL. ;))

[3Rivers]

I know I *should* be able to do Core 4 with a 4th grader. I'm just not sure that *this* particular 4th grader will acquiesce to so much reading. I suppose we could stretch the core out longer if necessary...but I guess I'm wondering if we would ever finish since there are a full 36 weeks to do..

Oh noooooo!!!! I'm feeling the pull of the CORE again! It's getting stronger! Resistance is futile!!!!:willy_nilly:

[melmichigan]

Oh noooooo!!!! I'm feeling the pull of the CORE again! It's getting stronger! Resistance is futile!!!!:willy_nilly:

 

:smilielol5:

 

OK I get it. Here's another thought. If your DD is an avid reader and you think she would do fine with everything and you still want to do SL, then why not just do the history and prioritize the read-alouds and reader based on what is used in 3+4. That would give you 7 Read-Alouds and 10 Readers. Your DD could read or be assigned any of the other books herself, and you'd have more materials if you wanted to delve deeper in a particular area. That way you would cut down on both your reading and that of your DS. You could cut back even more if you do a 4-day schedule. Or you could just order MFW. :lol:

[Angel]

but now that I look back at our year with Core 3, I'm remembering the push to just....get....through...the...reading.

 

 

 

But then also the kids have requested more hands-on activities...said they missed that even though their favorite part of history was the reading last year...

 

Ideally, I think I would buy Sonlight Core 4 for my daughter because she would read ALL the books probably before Christmas and beg for more. My son would be begging for mercy. I would get MFW for him....I would let her do HIS activities with him....let him listen in on HER read alouds..and use her readers for both...Little guy would tag along since he already has his own program.

 

 

I know I *should* be able to do Core 4 with a 4th grader. I'm just not sure that *this* particular 4th grader will acquiesce to so much reading. I suppose we could stretch the core out longer if necessary...but I guess I'm wondering if we would ever finish since there are a full 36 weeks to do..

 

 

Ok, I just had to chime back in:D If I was an unbiased poster and I was looking at all these statements that I took from separate posts, I would tell you to try MFW for a year. You HAVE tried SL and you have a definite opinion on it. You like it, but it might not be right for ALL of your kids.

 

Ok, back to semi-biased poster:lol: Seriously, it will be much easier to add in books and reading for your dd who loves to read and devours books, than it will to have your ds "begging for mercy." You can have the Book Basket filled completely AS WELL AS pulling all the extra books from SL that you think she would want to read. With MFW you can keep the hands-on or drop as time allows.

 

You can resist, resistance is NOT futile:D

[3Rivers]

 

There are a number of former Sonlighters on the MFW board who do just this. They use MFW and throw the appropriate SL books at their kids who just can't get enough. I think you will find a bit a cross over between the book lists as well. Best of both worlds really.

 

:D Love that.

 

Yep. Today I'm still thinking along those lines...MFW and tossing in plenty of wonderful SL books because my busy kinesthetic boy, although very bright, does not seem to be "Sonlight material" and I don't want to get something I have to tweak to pieces to fit two very different children.

 

And I like the idea also of just TRYING it for a year! I'm becoming the Accidental Connoisseur of curriculum. If I go with MFW I will have tried: SL, WP, TOG, SOTW, Abeka, BJU and MFW. Whew! After this year if I can't decide on something I'm putting myself in therapy.

Edited July 27, 2010 by 3Rivers

[beaglemamma]

It seems to me the easiest thing would be to get a MFW program and add in the Sonlight books for your dd. Many of the Sonlight books are already on the book basket list.

 

:iagree: We're getting ready to begin our Adventures year, and this is exactly what I did! I went through the Recommended Resource list in the back of the book and marked what was available at the library, purchased some of them, and made sure to add post-it notes to the appropriate weeks where Sonlight books would fit it.

 

What would a 7th grader using, just for example, Exploration to 1850, read for themselves other than books from the appendix? I have always wanted to know. I purchased the TM so I could see what they recommend and it recommended that every spine book be read outloud, even the book that is specifically for older students.

 

I'm only in MFW Adventures and don't have the experience that many other MFW users have, but I think I may be able to answer your question. The spines are read aloud together because one of the beauties of MFW is that you can teach multiple ages with the same lesson plans. However, there are other books that are recommended for independent reading.

 

I'm looking at a 2nd edition TM for ECC right now, and at the back of the book I see a 28-page list with recommended books (many of which, I'm sure, are fiction books that could be read independently), broken down by week. But immediately after that, I also see a 3-page list of recommended books for general reading. If you'll notice, the weekly grid includes a place for the reading that occurs together (History, Geography, Bible), but it also includes a separate place (Reading) for independent reading, and I think that's what this second book list is for.

 

The list is broken down by levels (Easy Readers, Picture Books, Second Grade and up, Third Grade and up, etc.). The books look like wonderful recommendations from what I can tell. I won't list them all because of copyright issues, but here is a small sampling. 2nd grade: Billy and Blaze, The Boxcar Children, The Complete Tales of Beatrix Potter. 3rd grade: In Grandma's Attic, Charlotte's Web, The Chronicles of Narnia. 4th Grade: Caddie Woodlawn, Old Yeller, Misty of Chincoteague. 5th Grade: The Black Stallion, Anne of Green Gables, Island of the Blue Dolphins. 6th Grade: Little Women/Men, A Christmas Carol, Gulliver's Travels.

 

This is just a sampling. There are lots of books listed for each grade level; they're just not scheduled in. You'd have to write that info on the grid each week and schedule it yourself based on your child's interests/abilities.

[campmom]

Your original question was which would be simpler to use. It seems in your case MFW would be simpler because it would have all of the extras scheduled in for you(hands on stuff) the only thing you would be lacking would be extra reading which is simple to decide on and pencil in where you want it to be. I would use the sonlight list for the time period, pick the books and go ahead and order them now. You would be buying them anyway if you were buying the core. That way you have them, don't have to deal with the library for those, can do any prereading if you feel it is necessary and schedule them in by looking at them, see how long they are etc and decide how long to schedule them for. Really pretty simple.

[campmom]

Oh, I just wanted to add from my experience with SL the IG was not the best part of the core the books were!

wiht MFW TM and projects and SL books--- How can you go wrong???????

[Momma H]

I know lots of people have said lots of things but I am not sure anyone just said MFW has really good read alouds too! Just the ones assigned are really good. We have really enjoyed them and often finish them quickly because my kids won't let me stop reading.:D

We don't usually get many books from the book basket--our library is tiny and I am satisfied with the materials that come with the program. My kids read alot but they read what looks good from the library. It is a great balance. I have looked at all the others and MFW is always what works for us. (did TOG one year and I am kicking myself for that)

[Donna A.]

I know lots of people have said lots of things but I am not sure anyone just said MFW has really good read alouds too! Just the ones assigned are really good. We have really enjoyed them and often finish them quickly because my kids won't let me stop reading.:D

We don't usually get many books from the book basket--our library is tiny and I am satisfied with the materials that come with the program. My kids read alot but they read what looks good from the library. It is a great balance. I have looked at all the others and MFW is always what works for us. (did TOG one year and I am kicking myself for that)

 

:iagree:

 

I know I've already responded in this thread, but I wanted to reiterate what Momma H said specifically about the MFW scheduled read-alouds. We've enjoyed all of them, they fit perfectly with the topics that they're scheduled with, they help strengthen a biblical worldview (especially because of *where* they're scheduled in the program, and how they fit not only with history, but with Bible as well), and the smaller selection of read-louds that MFW includes is really more in line with what CM would've done than Sonlight is. CM didn't advocate a *huge* amount of books for "school". If you want to read more in your free time, fine, but for school, you choose a *few* good quality titles and really get into those before adding more in your free time. That's how MFW works. ;)

 

We used the library heavily when my oldest was the "oldest in elementary", as she's a voracious reader and wanted a lot more. However, I'm not using it nearly as much with just the younger two because neither of them are avid readers like the oldest. I find MFW to be balanced and quite "enough" exactly as scheduled with the two youngers... but then with Book Basket (and/or SL or other booklists out there), that adds a great option for the child who reads like a sponge, too.

 

The pp mentioned TOG... I actually came *thisclose* to switching to TOG one year, but decided, "Why?" Why did I want to take on all that extra work when MFW is scheduled and very balanced with lots of flexibility in either direction? And while SL is less work than TOG, it's a lot more "required" reading AND a lot more expensive than MFW, and doesn't give me as much variety or flexibility as MFW, either. :001_smile:

[Momma H]

:iagree: YEP!

 

 

 

 

 

 

The pp mentioned TOG... I actually came *thisclose* to switching to TOG one year, but decided, "Why?" Why did I want to take on all that extra work when MFW is scheduled and very balanced with lots of flexibility in either direction? And while SL is less work than TOG, it's a lot more "required" reading AND a lot more expensive than MFW, and doesn't give me as much variety or flexibility as MFW, either. :001_smile: