Anyone have Experience with a natural Reader?

[1shortmomto4]

My ds, 7, started the year with SL LA 1 and I also used a mix of ETC online and workbooks and Starfall. Well, we started getting burned out on the SL LA and also the ETC online - same stuff, different day so I switched over to LLATL Blue. He was loving learning again and I skipped over 1/3 of the book and started with blends (this is where he was skillwise) and he loved the program. Loves playing some games, loves the little crafty stuff, word wheels, etc. Well, we've been on a break, sort of, for spring and then Grandparents visit, and then.... well, life was busy so I just had him reading books - PD Eastman (Go Dog Go, Bill & Ted, Are You my mother?) type books. He is flying through them - and we haven't even worked through the rules of silent e and the vowel change - he just seems to know all the words with very little to no help. So, what do I do? Keep getting harder books and not worry about the phonic lesson? We stopped All About Spelling because he was going too fast and was going to pass his older brother - he just seems to have a natural gift in the reading department (not so much in the math department). I had planned on finishing LLATL Blue and then going on into Red - maybe that is just fine and move through as quickly as needed and I'll have him reading lots of extra books using the SL 2 Readers but just wondering if it is entirely necessarily to focus more on phonics? Start back with AAS - it gives those phonics rules as you go along? My other ds has been a major struggle to teach reading - one end of the spectrum to the other - any thoughts? ideas? I don't want to bog him down or hold him back so really unsure what step to take next.

[momteaches2]

Me! Me! Me! For me, it was very frustrating until I had a lightbulb moment. I was working thru Saxon Phonics with my dd last year (K). She was reading Amelia Bedelia books on her own at the time. About Christmas, it hit me! DUH! If she is reading chapter books on her own, I can probably forgo a formal phonics program. And, I did. I switched to AAS. It has enough of the rules in it to make me feel like I'm still teaching the phonics rules. But, I'm not drilling her on the mundane 'how to read' phonics. She is reading on a 4th or 5th grade level now (in 1st grade), and there are very few words I have to help her with. She does read on her own A LOT, but I also have her read to me daily so I can see that she's actually getting the words not skimming over ones she doesn't know.

 

I would let him take the lead on speed. As soon as I dropped the phonics, she zoomed up in levels. I think I was holding her back, which was not a good thing for her. Now, she has 3 books going at a time. They range from picture books to chapter books. She just plain loves to read, and it came really easy to her.

[Sweetest]

I really think some kids just don't need formal phonics beyond the basics. I used 100 EZ lessons with both of my children for basic phonics. My dd was reading half way through the book and once we finished the 100 lessons she never did phonics again, she was reading at a 5th grade level by 1st grade... My DS just finished 100EZ, his reading didn't take off quite as quickly, but he is reading real books on his own already (including PD Eastman books :001_smile:).

 

It never even occurred to me to do more phonics with my DD and I think it would have frustrated her. I just made sure she had lots of books to read! My DS will be in a private K next year, so he will probably do some phonics work and honestly I'm more worried that it will negatively affect his reading than that it will benefit it!

 

If your DS is progressing and loving reading without phonics, I say just keep him reading (and forget the phonics)!

[daughterofsarah77]

I would love to see what others say about this. My dd has just taken off reading on her own far ahead of where we are in our MFW 1st Grade phonics. However, I am extremely reluctant to not push formal phonics with her.

I have a lot of concerns about how that would impact her spelling skills down the road, and even reading down the road.

[Mert]

:bigear:

[angela in ohio]

I would love to see what others say about this. My dd has just taken off reading on her own far ahead of where we are in our MFW 1st Grade phonics. However, I am extremely reluctant to not push formal phonics with her.

I have a lot of concerns about how that would impact her spelling skills down the road, and even reading down the road.

 

That's exactly the problem. We have had discussions about this here before, and I hope some of the people who posted before chime in. Many find, and SWB describes well, that a child who learns to read and quits phonics mid-way will end up with a "fourth grade slump." They get out to a high grade reading level really early, but then can't move forward, even a few years later. They will not have the skills necessary to move on to the next level of reading, as the words become longer and more difficult.

 

This happened to my dd. She learned to read with just a bit of phonics instruction, she was gifted, and she was reading all the time, so I quit phonics. But then she struggled later, both with reading longer words and with spelling. We ended up going back and working through phonics again, but at a time when she needed to be moving on to other things. You hear, "they can always learn it later if they need it" from homeschoolers, but it is better to learn anything younger, because there is more and more to learn as they get older. :001_smile:

 

There is a lot more to phonics than most people think. If you don't go up through second grade or finish a program you never get to it: multi-syllabic words, etc. You don't have to hold him back wtih phonics. If your dc knows something, go through it quickly and move on. Use the curriculum the way you need it. But my advice is to get through the end of the program.

[MelanieM]

I have a daughter that learned to read with no formal instruction, and she seems to have a natural gift for finding the patterns in language. I thought about doing a phonics program with her anyway (and posted about it here before, looking for advice) and have decided to skip it in favour of a more relaxed approach.

 

I have a copy of The ABCs and All Their Tricks (excellent book!) and am using it as a reference to look up rules as we have a need. I may take a more systematic approach to this at some point and incorporate weekly spelling lists... we'll see!

 

Honestly, I cannot remember ever having phonics instruction. I know I was reading before school, so I imagine if they taught it I likely tuned it out, or at least it didn't make enough of an impact for me to remember any of it because I cannot tell you more than a handful of rules! Yet I have no difficulty reading materials at advanced levels, and when I come upon a word I don't understand I know how to look it up. So while it could be easy to worry about my daughter's future reading ability because of her lack of phonics instruction, I'm choosing to use myself as the example here and trust that it doesn't need to be an issue.

[DebbS]

Both of my children, now 12 and 15, just took off with reading too. Once they could read, I completely dropped the phonics. What I did was to get them books that were challenging and interesting to them. Sometimes we read together so that I could correct problems. Also, they began to expand their vocabulary and I could then correct any pronunciation problems. By age 6 both were in chapter books with very few pictures. The biggest problem I faced was that their reading skills were above their maturity level, so for a time I had difficulty finding them the 3 to 4 books per week within their skill level at the library. I turned to some of the older books that I read such as Nancy Drew, Hardy Boys, Little House, and history type subjects. My theory was to keep the content interesting so that they would develop a love of reading. It worked. Both now read at college level and can do most of their schoolwork independently using research based curriculum. Both also prefer to read rather than watch TV.

[Georgia On My Mind]

I am an educational therapist and work with children who are not "natural" readers. I was a natural voracious reader but was taught in the "sight word" method erra. Now, I can look at it from both sides. I did have to learn the phonics/spelling rules to be an educational therapist even after being a teacher and principal for 25 years and a great speller. I was amazed at how much easier life would have been for me as a graduate student if I had known the basics of phonics and the language patterns that make up our English language.

 

I would let your child do his reading on the level he is on but I would use the phonics to teach him the rules of reading our language and finally to spell. Call it "spelling" rules if he thinks he doesn't need the phonics practice. Knowing the language patterns is what I work on with all my students, even in college, who are struggling with reading or spelling, etc. Once learned and practiced in challenge reading and spelling, he will have that skill forever and it will become natural.

 

Just my input from a different perspective. I won my school's spelling bee without ever having phonics but still had to learn phonics in grad school and it was not easy at that level.

[kokotg]

My oldest was reading Magic Tree House books before he was five, so finding a phonics program that wasn't way too easy and slow paced for him was pretty much impossible...we got 1/3 of the way through Sing, Spell, Read, and Write and then gave up. It's worked out fine--he's about to turn 9 and he can read pretty much anything he wants--but looking back I think what I'd do if I had it to do over is have him work through all the Explode the Code books. A full phonics program with all the bells and whistles was way too much, but he could easily have spent 10-15 minutes a day doing ETC just to make sure we had all the bases covered.

[Lovedtodeath]

That's exactly the problem. We have had discussions about this here before, and I hope some of the people who posted before chime in. Many find, and SWB describes well, that a child who learns to read and quits phonics mid-way will end up with a "fourth grade slump." They get out to a high grade reading level really early, but then can't move forward, even a few years later. They will not have the skills necessary to move on to the next level of reading, as the words become longer and more difficult.

 

This happened to my dd. She learned to read with just a bit of phonics instruction, she was gifted, and she was reading all the time, so I quit phonics. But then she struggled later, both with reading longer words and with spelling. We ended up going back and working through phonics again, but at a time when she needed to be moving on to other things. You hear, "they can always learn it later if they need it" from homeschoolers, but it is better to learn anything younger, because there is more and more to learn as they get older. :001_smile:

 

There is a lot more to phonics than most people think. If you don't go up through second grade or finish a program you never get to it: multi-syllabic words, etc. You don't have to hold him back wtih phonics. If your dc knows something, go through it quickly and move on. Use the curriculum the way you need it. But my advice is to get through the end of the program.

I think it depends on the age of your children and the program. I did a lot of phonics with my daughter but she was so young when finished (still 3) that she has forgotten the majority of it. Phonics Road is working very well. It is a solid all in one language arts program, so it isn't seen as babyish and she can finish it in 6th grade and still be on track, getting grammar and writing covered too. So yes, we hit the 5th grade reading level barrier and the problems with spelling, but I don't mind using Phonics Road now. She would fight me tooth and nail trying to do phonics with her when she was younger.

[DarlaS]

A full phonics program with all the bells and whistles was way too much, but he could easily have spent 10-15 minutes a day doing ETC just to make sure we had all the bases covered.

 

:iagree:

 

This is what I'm doing with my 6 yo. He can read anything I show to him but we're sticking with ETC because it's quick, effective and he likes it. I'm not taking a chance when a few minutes a couple times a week would cover this program. He's also an excellent speller and I credit ETC for that (and to a lesser extent, his independent reading).

 

It's possible some kids just memorize the harder words if phonics is dropped completely, while some figure out "e i g h says ay" etc. and then apply the rule to other similar words just as if it had been directly taught. They learn phonics in context intuitively. That could account for some whole language success stories - and the nightmare stories would be the kids who can not do this (which could very likely be most of them).

[1shortmomto4]

Wow! Thanks so much for such wonderful insight, perspectives and advice. I've worked so hard getting my one ds reading (late bloomer, for sure) that it has taken me by surprise that this little guy has just taken off in the reading arena. I think it would probably be best, in the long run, to keep up with the program we're using and the plans I have for him to pick up AAS again in the fall (when the older brother has finished level 1 and less pressure) but there is nothing wrong in having him read for instruction and then read lots of other books - perhaps on a higher level for interest.

 

I will say that I'm for phonics for the most part but I do have an older ds who is now 16 that struggled to read, too. He went to PS through 1/2 of 4th grade and he is why we began homeschooling. The school told me that he needed to buckle down and take school seriously; I, on the other hand, felt there was a problem. We had him privately tested and he could not read on a 4th grade level. He was the product of sight words and other "experiments" they were trying. I brought him home and taught Saxon Intervention had him reading at an 8th grade level by the end of the summer - for the most part. Sadly, some of his issues will never be repaired because he has a hearing disability that was diagnosed this past summer - and there are sounds (phonics is so much based on sounds) that he has never nor will he ever be able to hear. Thankfully, I found Sequential Spelling on DVD for him so he could see the words and that has improved his spelling tremendously. So, I'm quite shy at taking chances or doing something out-of-the-box for fear of messing his progress up. I think I have to agree that finishing out the program - perhaps a bit faster speed as his interest and abilities allow, but covering the bases is best - as long as he continues his enjoyment of reading.

 

Again, thank you all so much!!!

[Lovedtodeath]

It's possible some kids just memorize the harder words if phonics is dropped completely, while some figure out "e i g h says ay" etc. and then apply the rule to other similar words just as if it had been directly taught. They learn phonics in context intuitively. That could account for some whole language success stories - and the nightmare stories would be the kids who can not do this (which could very likely be most of them).

The AAS phonogram CD is great for that. At least they get those phonograms in.;)

[DarlaS]

The AAS phonogram CD is great for that. At least they get those phonograms in.;)

 

I must sheepishly confess that I have bought and sold AAS. :leaving:

 

All those little tiles! :willy_nilly:

 

I would totally do it if I had a kid who was struggling and/or liked the program. I have neither (thank my lucky stars!!).

[Lovedtodeath]

I must sheepishly confess that I have bought and sold AAS. :leaving:

 

All those little tiles! :willy_nilly:

 

I would totally do it if I had a kid who was struggling and/or liked the program. I have neither (thank my lucky stars!!).

But I wasn't talking about the program. ;) Just the CD ROM. Teaching the phonograms is good for anyone, whether you use the program or not.

[DarlaS]

But I wasn't talking about the program. ;) Just the CD ROM. Teaching the phonograms is good for anyone, whether you use the program or not.

 

I had that too--and did not realize it was interactive. Hmmm.... that could be very handy to have. I sense that I'm about to re-buy something. Again. :tongue_smilie:

[Mommy22alyns]

Both of my girls are natural readers. We did the super basic letter instruction, BOB books, and some HOP phonics and then they just took off. They were reading anything I could hand them. So... I just dropped phonics. Sylvia will get a little more, but Becca had no patience for learning what she knew.

[Karenciavo]

My youngest taught himself to read. I still think it was helpful for him to memorize the phonograms, we used SWR cards.

[Sweetest]

That's exactly the problem. We have had discussions about this here before, and I hope some of the people who posted before chime in. Many find, and SWB describes well, that a child who learns to read and quits phonics mid-way will end up with a "fourth grade slump." They get out to a high grade reading level really early, but then can't move forward, even a few years later. They will not have the skills necessary to move on to the next level of reading, as the words become longer and more difficult.

 

I'm one who posted earlier, and I'm chiming back in :001_smile: I do think many kids probably benefit from prolonged phonics. But I stand by my belief that there are children who really don't need it.

 

After 100 EZ lessons my daughter was reading, not a struggling reader, but actually reading. It was quickly apparent that she didn't need any more phonics: She was reading chapter books by the end of kinder, she read the entire Harry Potter series in 2nd grade, at the end of 3rd grade, all of her language scores were averaging a mid-seventh grade level (still waiting on 4th grade scores, but I expect them to be about the same). Not having phonics (beyond 100 EZ lessons) has not harmed her.

 

I'm certainly not saying that advanced phonics are unnecessary, just that they aren't always necessary for every child ;)

 

To the OP, if you feel better continuing with phonics then I say keep it up, if for no other reason than to reassure yourself that you have done all you can! I just wanted to reassure you that what you are seeing in your son could very possibly be (as you suspected) a natural language ability that will flourish with very little interference on your part :thumbup:

[Lovedtodeath]

I also like to have the phonics and spelling rules available so that when you come to a word that they are having trouble reading/sounding out/spelling then you can teach it the right way, instead of relying on whole word methods in that case.

[JenneinCA]

My dd11 learned to read early and very very well. She can spell anything. She just gets grammar and paragraph structure and all that stuff. I am not sure how she learned it, maybe from the books she was reading?? I don't know. She wouldn't know a phoneme if it came up and said 'Hi'. She can't recite a spelling rule for anything. She just KNOWS it. She didn't need any more teaching of reading or spelling beyond a few months before she turned four.

 

My ds9 learned to read at about 5. He struggles with spelling and composition and handwriting and all the language arts things that big sister just figured out without an help. But he reads just fine. I am doing serious phonics with him now and he is finally getting the spelling rules. We worked on how to structure a sentence and then a paragraph. We are doing explicit grammar. It is totally a different ball game with him. All those things that dd just figured out without my help... he needs my help and lots of repetition. And I didn't know that I actually had to TEACH them. Oops.

 

Then came along ds6. I taught him phonics to read. He went through it fast but I made sure he understood those phonemes. He reads anything now. And this boy can spell. He has issues with remembering capital letters at the beginning of sentences and tries to capitalize every letter P he sees (His name starts with P.) but he understands phonics at a much more complete level than big brother and differently than big sister. He can tell you the spelling rules and list all the sounds a letter makes. Dd11 can't do that. She knows it, but couldn't teach it for anything. Ds6 could teach it.

 

I learned from my experiences. I made sure to TEACH ds6 all the rules. We went fast. I am not sure he needed the explicit information. He certainly doesn't need the repetition, but when we can cover spelling in ten minutes a day I just do it. I know some kids don't need the phonics. I know some kids do need the phonics. And for some kids it is just nice. I think I have one in each category.

[abrightmom]

That's exactly the problem. We have had discussions about this here before, and I hope some of the people who posted before chime in. Many find, and SWB describes well, that a child who learns to read and quits phonics mid-way will end up with a "fourth grade slump." They get out to a high grade reading level really early, but then can't move forward, even a few years later. They will not have the skills necessary to move on to the next level of reading, as the words become longer and more difficult.

 

This happened to my dd. She learned to read with just a bit of phonics instruction, she was gifted, and she was reading all the time, so I quit phonics. But then she struggled later, both with reading longer words and with spelling. We ended up going back and working through phonics again, but at a time when she needed to be moving on to other things. You hear, "they can always learn it later if they need it" from homeschoolers, but it is better to learn anything younger, because there is more and more to learn as they get older. :001_smile:

 

There is a lot more to phonics than most people think. If you don't go up through second grade or finish a program you never get to it: multi-syllabic words, etc. You don't have to hold him back wtih phonics. If your dc knows something, go through it quickly and move on. Use the curriculum the way you need it. But my advice is to get through the end of the program.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: My DS7 just started reading one day at 3 or 4 years old . . . I don't know how it happened. I didn't do much with him in the way of phonics. Initially I assumed he didn't need phonics because he was reading so well! Then, several months ago I decided to take him through The Ordinary Parents Guide to Teaching Reading (straightforward, incremental, thorough, no gimmicks, easy to implement) just to check on those skills. Lo and behold, he hit a wall with those multi-syllable words and I realized that he definitely had phonics gaps. Before that I just assumed he was handling harder words in his books but he is a sharp kid. What he was doing was using the context to guess the word or just skipping over the word (he had the gist of the story anyway!). We have had to really work slowly through the end of OPGTR. We are now moving to the Phonics Road with all of the kids and I plan to give every one of my children a strong, thorough spelling and phonics foundation regardless of their skill level or how easily they begin to read. AAS would also be fantastic and would cement that phonics foundation for your son. Let him work through it at his speed. :001_smile: