Is Winter Promise a Christian curriculum?

[Parrothead]

The Winter Promise catalog came today. I don't even remember ordering it. :D

 

I thought everything was settled for all subjects to be started in the fall. Then I opened the catalog. I'm specifically interested in the history and science.

 

I would prefer something secular or Catholic. I can't find anything that I would call great in the secular realm. I've been given a line on a Catholic history program that is similar to TOG. But it isn't "tried and true" so I have a few reservations. It was what I planned on using until the catalog showed up in my mail box today.

 

So if you use Winter Promise please tell me how Christian it is. Is it mostly secular or does it have just a dusting of religion? Or is it something along the lines of BJU or A Beka? Which would totally turn me off.

[Donna T.]

So if you use Winter Promise please tell me how Christian it is. Is it mostly secular or does it have just a dusting of religion? Or is it something along the lines of BJU or A Beka? Which would totally turn me off.

 

WP is a Christian curriculum. It's not like BJU or Abeka though. They use some secular books and overall it feels "less religious". Alot less. There is a Bible component but it's not tightly integrated throughout the program. At one time, the web site had a statement of beliefs on it. I'm not sure if it is still there. The author is a Baptist Christian. I think alot of families use it in a secular way but it is written from a Christian point of view.

[Lovedtodeath]

It depends on what secular means to you and which programs you are looking at. From what I can tell the American Programs are completely secular, but the devotional is included in the package in order to get the free guidebook, so that annoys me.

 

Animal Worlds uses a YE science book, but it can be easily removed; it is a new addition to the program.

 

The Sea and Sky program uses Young Earth books, which I personally don't have a problem with, we are right in the middle between YE and OE so I have to tweak anything and everything anyway... but some people have subbed secular science books for that. The Winterpromise secular yahoo group has info.

 

QAW for 4/6th grade can be made secular by dropping the spine or subbing another one. The QAW for Jr. Sr. has too many religious books for a secular user, but I am not sure if they might be okay for a Catholic user. QMA looks like subbing or dropping the spine and just a couple of books would work well. QRR looks like it will work well.

 

CATW will not work from what I can tell, but I have made my own program (in progress) that is similar and will be willing to share until I get it finished.

 

Some of the science programs work well secularly and some don't. Generally if it doesn't then you will see a big glaring YE science book (like God's Design) so that is a big tip-off.

 

You are welcome to join our yahoo group. It is very slow but if new members would ask questions instead of joining, seeing that it is dead and then leaving I think it would work fine as people will generally answer questions.

 

HTH!

[AngieW in Texas]

WP is definitely Christian. I have used SL secularly for years. It should be possible to use WP secularly as well, but it looks to me like it would be more difficult to adapt than SL is.

[zookeeperof3]

I've been looking at Winter Promise also. I hesitate to use it because I've heard so many bad things about receiving your orders from them. And I am so tired of tweaking my curriculum to make it more Catholic.

 

Also, I have been looking over Connecting with History, but I don't know anyone who's actually used it. I tried TOG last year, it was to much for me to do. Good luck to us both in finding what we want!

Blessings,

Kim

[crl]

I've been looking at Winter Promise also. I hesitate to use it because I've heard so many bad things about receiving your orders from them.

 

The most recent people ordering have started having good reports about faster shipping. At least that's the word on the WP boards and yahoo loop.

[calandalsmom]

http://www.winterpromise.com/believe.html

[zookeeperof3]

The most recent people ordering have started having good reports about faster shipping. At least that's the word on the WP boards and yahoo loop.

 

Thanks! That's good to know!

[Parrothead]

WP is a Christian curriculum. It's not like BJU or Abeka though. They use some secular books and overall it feels "less religious". Alot less. There is a Bible component but it's not tightly integrated throughout the program. At one time, the web site had a statement of beliefs on it. I'm not sure if it is still there. The author is a Baptist Christian. I think alot of families use it in a secular way but it is written from a Christian point of view.

Thanks. I'm glad to know it isn't what I would term "too bad."

[Parrothead]

It depends on what secular means to you and which programs you are looking at. From what I can tell the American Programs are completely secular, but the devotional is included in the package in order to get the free guidebook, so that annoys me.

 

Animal Worlds uses a YE science book, but it can be easily removed; it is a new addition to the program.

 

The Sea and Sky program uses Young Earth books, which I personally don't have a problem with, we are right in the middle between YE and OE so I have to tweak anything and everything anyway... but some people have subbed secular science books for that. The Winterpromise secular yahoo group has info.

 

QAW for 4/6th grade can be made secular by dropping the spine or subbing another one. The QAW for Jr. Sr. has too many religious books for a secular user, but I am not sure if they might be okay for a Catholic user. QMA looks like subbing or dropping the spine and just a couple of books would work well. QRR looks like it will work well.

 

CATW will not work from what I can tell, but I have made my own program (in progress) that is similar and will be willing to share until I get it finished.

 

Some of the science programs work well secularly and some don't. Generally if it doesn't then you will see a big glaring YE science book (like God's Design) so that is a big tip-off.

 

You are welcome to join our yahoo group. It is very slow but if new members would ask questions instead of joining, seeing that it is dead and then leaving I think it would work fine as people will generally answer questions.

 

HTH!

Thanks for the overview. I was interested in adding CATW to our geography component this year. I'd be interested to see what you have if you have time and don't terribly mind.

 

Also thanks for the YE heads-up. I know MOH takes a YE stance so I was wondering about substituting something else. That lead to wondering why I'd buy this program if I'm substituting.

 

I have never really had any luck with Yahoo groups. I find them difficult to follow. Thanks for the offer though. If it is an open group I wouldn't mind reading some of the past postings.

[Parrothead]

I've been looking at Winter Promise also. I hesitate to use it because I've heard so many bad things about receiving your orders from them. And I am so tired of tweaking my curriculum to make it more Catholic.

 

Also, I have been looking over Connecting with History, but I don't know anyone who's actually used it. I tried TOG last year, it was to much for me to do. Good luck to us both in finding what we want!

Blessings,

Kim

Oh, I so know what you mean. After dd's 2nd grade year I went totally secular for 3rd, 4th and 5th. I wanted some thing that was not as soft in the history and sciences as the older Catholic materials were. Now there is more available that is solidly Catholic so I'm trying to find what Catholic materials work best with TWTM/classical/living books/CMish approach that I use.

 

I looked into TOG two years ago and knew it wouldn't work. Sorry you had to have such a tough experience with it.

 

I'm going to search for CWH and see if anyone here has already reviewed it. If not, I'll ask for both of us.

[zookeeperof3]

I'll be watching to see what the answers are! It does seem like the majority of the Catholic publishers are either dry and boring or work book type curriculum's.

 

You described me here " Now there is more available that is solidly Catholic so I'm trying to find what Catholic materials work best with TWTM/classical/living books/CMish approach that I use."

 

I'm trying to actually research this year before I buy. I recently bought MFW Creation to the Greeks and thought it would work for us, but it's not and that's a shame because I loved their lower grade programs.

 

Let me know what you find out about Connecting with History!

Kim

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Thanks for the overview. I was interested in adding CATW to our geography component this year. I'd be interested to see what you have if you have time and don't terribly mind.

Sure. I use the Kingfisher Children's Atlas, Material World, Draw Write Now books 7 and 8 that are all scheduled. Most of the other books that I scheduled are for younger grades, but I have a list of books by country and age group, so it is easy to just pop them in. I will need your email address and I can send you what I have.

[Parrothead]

I'll be watching to see what the answers are! It does seem like the majority of the Catholic publishers are either dry and boring or work book type curriculum's.

 

You described me here " Now there is more available that is solidly Catholic so I'm trying to find what Catholic materials work best with TWTM/classical/living books/CMish approach that I use."

 

I'm trying to actually research this year before I buy. I recently bought MFW Creation to the Greeks and thought it would work for us, but it's not and that's a shame because I loved their lower grade programs.

 

Let me know what you find out about Connecting with History!

Kim

I posted a question in the K-8 forum here. Answers are coming.

[Parrothead]

Sure. I use the Kingfisher Children's Atlas, Material World, Draw Write Now books 7 and 8 that are all scheduled. Most of the other books that I scheduled are for younger grades, but I have a list of books by country and age group, so it is easy to just pop them in. I will need your email address and I can send you what I have.

I'll pm it to you.

[TXMary2]

WP is definitely Christian. I have used SL secularly for years. It should be possible to use WP secularly as well, but it looks to me like it would be more difficult to adapt than SL is.

 

I think I'd disagree with this. SL's notes are heavy on the christianity. WP does not have the extensive notes and would be much easier to eliminate christian materials.

[littlebug42]

We used AS1 last year and the spine for that (100 Tales...) had a decidedly anti-Catholic sentiment so I skipped it. I also have looked at samples of Mystery of History that the Quest cores use and again, some anti-Catholic sentiment though.

 

I was considering CATW but as a Catholic, I am also just so tired of tweaking and constantly being on my guard with Protestant materials. I just decided today that my summer project this year is going to be putting together my own CATW-like program with a more Catholic focus.

[Aludlam]

The Winter Promise catalog came today. I don't even remember ordering it. :D

 

They must have sent you mine! I still haven't gotten one yet. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Angela

[Parrothead]

We used AS1 last year and the spine for that (100 Tales...) had a decidedly anti-Catholic sentiment so I skipped it. I also have looked at samples of Mystery of History that the Quest cores use and again, some anti-Catholic sentiment though.

 

I was considering CATW but as a Catholic, I am also just so tired of tweaking and constantly being on my guard with Protestant materials. I just decided today that my summer project this year is going to be putting together my own CATW-like program with a more Catholic focus.

I'm thinking the same. If only I had a sample to work with.

 

I wonder if it is too much to ask. All I want is a history program that is rigorous and at the same time is not anti-Catholic. The idea would be something that can be easily used by secular, Catholic Christian and Protestant Christian homeschoolers. It must allow for some notebooking, hands-on activities, include good living books and be chronological. I would like something that does not take up too much of my time and can be reused in some manner. My ideal history curriculum should segue nicely into other subjects such as geography, art, music and science. And it all has to be priced within reason. How hard can that be?

[Lovedtodeath]

They must have sent you mine! I still haven't gotten one yet. :tongue_smilie:

I had to dig mine out of the trash. DH put it in there as soon as it came.:glare:

[Aludlam]

I had to dig mine out of the trash. DH put it in there as soon as it came.:glare:

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[dragons in the flower bed]

It would be more accurate to say that all WP programs include Christian content. I haven't had a problem leaving the Christian parts out.

 

Last I heard WP still made available secular complete kits that were suitable for purchase by charter school enrollees.

[Lovedtodeath]

It would be more accurate to say that all WP programs include Christian content. I haven't had a problem leaving the Christian parts out.

 

Last I heard WP still made available secular complete kits that were suitable for purchase by charter school enrollees.

OOOO I wonder if I can get that. Happy happy if I can!

[Parrothead]

It would be more accurate to say that all WP programs include Christian content. I haven't had a problem leaving the Christian parts out.

 

Last I heard WP still made available secular complete kits that were suitable for purchase by charter school enrollees.

Thanks. I don't mind Christian content seeing how we are Christian. I just don't want bash-me-over-the-head anti-Catholicism.

[SnowWhite]

I haven't found any "bash-you-over-the-head" anti-Catholicism yet, but I have not yet used the QAW and QMA themes. There were a couple or three anti-Catholic stories in 100 True Tales, but there were also a couple or three anti-Christian (in general, Protestant or otherwise) stories as well. We pretty well skipped all of those and I didn't feel it hurt the program at all.

 

We've used IRTL, AW, AS1, AS2, WAM science, and LA Basic K, 1, 2 & 3.

[Parrothead]

Thanks Jennifer.

[Crimson Wife]

All I want is a history program that is rigorous and at the same time is not anti-Catholic. The idea would be something that can be easily used by secular, Catholic Christian and Protestant Christian homeschoolers....How hard can that be?

 

But how do you present "hot button" topics in a way that's going to please both Catholics and non-Catholics? I'm thinking the Crusades, the Reformation & Counter-Reformation, Copernicus & Galileo, the Spanish Inquisition, etc. If the author is at all sympathetic towards the Church, that's going to upset non-Catholics. If the author presents a negative view of the Church, that's going to upset Catholics.

 

I don't think there is a way to provide a "neutral" view of these issues. If it's written by a Catholic, it's going to have a Catholic bias. If it's written by a non-Catholic, it's going to have at least somewhat of an anti-Catholic bias.

[Lovedtodeath]

But how do you present "hot button" topics in a way that's going to please both Catholics and non-Catholics? I'm thinking the Crusades, the Reformation & Counter-Reformation, Copernicus & Galileo, the Spanish Inquisition, etc. If the author is at all sympathetic towards the Church, that's going to upset non-Catholics. If the author presents a negative view of the Church, that's going to upset Catholics.

 

I don't think there is a way to provide a "neutral" view of these issues. If it's written by a Catholic, it's going to have a Catholic bias. If it's written by a non-Catholic, it's going to have at least somewhat of an anti-Catholic bias.

Hmmmm... interesting. :bigear:

[Laura in STL]

For those of you who are Catholic and mentioned that you are considering Connecting with History... I just received my copy of the manual for Year One, and I love it! I have finalized my list of books and can't wait to get them ordered. My impression is that this is a very solid history program and is solidly Catholic. Just what I have been looking for!

 

The program is set up to align with the Jeff Cavins Bible Timeline program for Bible study for adults/older teens. I would recommend doing that study(Old Testament) if possible for yourself, but it isn't necessary to teach the material.

 

I feel like the program is well laid out, but is also flexible. If I like books from different age ranges, I can easily switch back and forth. It seems similar to TOG, but much easier to figure out. I would definitely consider taking a closer look at it. I was able to see it at our local Catholic Homeschool Conference.

 

Btw, I am still using a religion curriculum(Faith and Life) for Catechism. I may not need to do that in the next rotation, but I feel it's needed in the Grammar/Logic level.

 

Hope this helps.

[zookeeperof3]

I've been looking at that because it sounds like what I'm looking for.I appreciate your review of it. I loved the thought behind TOG, I just couldn't make it Catholic enough for us. We want to study the saints for the time period of say ancient history, while we are studying ancient time. I was very happy to see their time line cards even have saints on them! I am also very happy that they have notebook pages....my son's dream has come true! I think I'm going to order it tomorrow. Do I need to order the teacher resource pack? Does that have the Bible in it?

 

Thank you so much for your help!

Blessings,

Kim

[Lovedtodeath]

Back to Winterpromise... I see that they have revamped QAW so I am not sure if the 4/6 guide is still secular friendly like it used to be.

[zookeeperof3]

Yeah, I don't know if MOH could be secular, it seemed pretty heavily into Bible people etc when I looked at it.

Kim

[Lovedtodeath]

Yeah, I don't know if MOH could be secular, it seemed pretty heavily into Bible people etc when I looked at it.

Kim

I meant the other books, not MOH. lol

[Parrothead]

But how do you present "hot button" topics in a way that's going to please both Catholics and non-Catholics? I'm thinking the Crusades, the Reformation & Counter-Reformation, Copernicus & Galileo, the Spanish Inquisition, etc. If the author is at all sympathetic towards the Church, that's going to upset non-Catholics. If the author presents a negative view of the Church, that's going to upset Catholics.

 

I don't think there is a way to provide a "neutral" view of these issues. If it's written by a Catholic, it's going to have a Catholic bias. If it's written by a non-Catholic, it's going to have at least somewhat of an anti-Catholic bias.

Why do these topics have to have "spin" on them for either side? I don't get it. For instance the burning of innocent people in Salem by deeply religious Protestants is presented as a sad time in American history without any "oh, those evil Puritans" But let it be something the Catholic church has done and oh, boy, hold on to you hat.

 

If there were no spin in what are supposed to be Christian school books for children I would not be up at mid-night trying to piece a history curriculum together.

 

I find it sad that 500 years later both side are still so divided that the designations Catholic Christians and Protestant Christians have to be used. There is 1500 years of shared history before the Reformation, and that history is so divided I feel uncomfortable presenting it to my child if it comes from a Protestant Christian view. The Middle Ages happened - good, bad and ugly. Why isn't it presented as it happened from 1-1520 AD instead of applying anti-Catholic spin. Put the spin on the time after the Reformation. Then I'd only be having to write my own Middle Ages history curriculum for the last 80 years.

 

Sorry, can you tell I'm a bit frustrated?

[Parrothead]

Yeah, I don't know if MOH could be secular, it seemed pretty heavily into Bible people etc when I looked at it.

Kim

That is what has me working on my one program right now. I can't in good conscious present MOH to my dd. If for no other reason we are not YE'ers.

 

I really want to:smash: :banghead: :cursing: after spending all afternoon trying to write my own program.

[Lovedtodeath]

Why do these topics have to have "spin" on them for either side? I don't get it. For instance the burning of innocent people in Salem by deeply religious Protestants is presented as a sad time in American history without any "oh, those evil Puritans" But let it be something the Catholic church has done and oh, boy, hold on to you hat.

I haven't gotten there yet so haven't experience it, but I agree that I would love something that could not have a spin, and I do think that it can/should be presented that way. I would think many homeschoolers would want to present things in a non-judgemental way whether they are Catholic or not.

[Parrothead]

I haven't gotten there yet so haven't experience it, but I agree that I would love something that could not have a spin, and I do think that it can/should be presented that way. I would think many homeschoolers would want to present things in a non-judgemental way whether they are Catholic or not.

Oh, yeah. Think of the sales.

 

Something else I've often wondered is how do the different Protestant denominations get past one particular denomination's spin? There has to be points of contention somewhere or there wouldn't be so many different denominations.

[Lovedtodeath]

Oh, yeah. Think of the sales.

 

Something else I've often wondered is how do the different Protestant denominations get past one particular denomination's spin? There has to be points of contention somewhere or there wouldn't be so many different denominations.

I don't think the differences are that big, but I am not Protestant so I tend to group them all together. :lol: But I don't really have a problem using something written by a Protestant and taking out a few books. That is something I am okay doing.

 

I am thinking that most of the curriculum that you think of as Protestant aren't teaching the things that there might be disagreements on, like belief in the rapture for example. I do know that Abeka talks about "getting saved" even in their Language Arts... hmmm

Edited May 28, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[romeacademy]

That is what has me working on my one program right now.

 

I really want to:smash: :banghead: :cursing: after spending all afternoon trying to write my own program.

 

Would love to know what you come up with. Even though we're using CWH it has it's shortcomings too. I've also be frustrated with adding in and taking out of programs. And I am planning-deficient, so it isn't pretty. :)

[Parrothead]

I don't think the differences are that big, but I am not Protestant so I tend to group them all together. :lol: But I don't really have a problem using something written by a Protestant and taking out a few books. That is something I am okay doing.

Just to clarify because I know how things can get twisted here, I'm not anti-Protestant. My best friend is Baptist. We find it funny that we can't watch each other's kid for prayer group since we have that on the same evenig - and mine is the group that is charismatic. :lol:

 

I just don't want to start reading a book out loud and come upon an anti-Catholic sentiment which is out of my mouth before I catch it. Or have my dd come to me with something she has read that says something about how Catholics aren't really Christians because they are a cult of the sun god. :001_huh:

 

So it is things like that which Catholics have to be careful of. Again, I'm not anti-Protestant, just a Catholic that wants to stay faithful to the Church.

[Parrothead]

Would love to know what you come up with. Even though we're using CWH it has it's shortcomings too. I've also be frustrated with adding in and taking out of programs. And I am planning-deficient, so it isn't pretty. :)

It is only for grammar stage Middle Ages, but I'll show it to you when I finish. Finishing will be a week or so.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Or have my dd come to me with something she has read that says something about how Catholics aren't really Christians because they are a cult of the sun god. :001_huh:

:001_huh:Is there something in there about crazy restorationists?:svengo:

[Parrothead]

I am thinking that most of the curriculum that you think of as Protestant aren't teaching the things that there might be disagreements on, like belief in the rapture for example. I do know that Abeka talks about "getting saved" even in their Language Arts... hmmm

No, BJU and Abeka won't come in my house. I hate it that I have to take such a firm stance against those, but they started it. :D

 

And it really was back in the early days of our homeschool that I was running up on things like I described in a pp. I know what types to stay away from. For a couple of years I saved myself the head ache and went totally secular.

 

I've decided to go secular with science all the way. There isn't a rigorous Catholic program available and we are not literal creation/YE people in my house so the vast majority of Christian science is out.

 

I'll dig in for the history. I'm not strong enough in the sciences to make up my own. And after the Galileo fiasco, the church is pretty liberal with science now. She does learn from her mistakes.

[Parrothead]

:001_huh:Is there something in there about crazy restorationists?:svengo:

:lol:

 

ETA: Off to bed. I'll check in when I come up for air tomorrow. I was only supposed to be here to ask abut the 3 Muskateers in the general board. - An hour ago! Yikes.

[Annabel Lee]

Sorry if this has already been answered, I didn't read through all the replies. WP American Story 1 is pretty much secular. There's a Bible-story scheduled to be read daily, but since it's so separate from the actual history portion (the timelines of it don't even match up) I don't use it. We were already doing our own thing for faith/Bible studies and wanted to continue that. I suppose we use WP in a secular way, if you only consider the WP part. I have to add to it w/ separate heavily faith-based books for church and Christian history (so on it's own, it sounds like you'd be OK w/ it). HTH.

[littlebug42]

Sorry if this has already been answered, I didn't read through all the replies. WP American Story 1 is pretty much secular. There's a Bible-story scheduled to be read daily, but since it's so separate from the actual history portion (the timelines of it don't even match up) I don't use it. We were already doing our own thing for faith/Bible studies and wanted to continue that. I suppose we use WP in a secular way, if you only consider the WP part. I have to add to it w/ separate heavily faith-based books for church and Christian history (so on it's own, it sounds like you'd be OK w/ it). HTH.

 

The spine for AS1, American Story, however does have some anti-Catholic sentiment. The rest of it was OK for me (excluding the Bible portion) but I had to replace the spine.

[zookeeperof3]

Winter Promise has a wonderful catalog with beautiful books. My current plan is to do RC history w/ Catholic Textbook Project as my spine and add in some of Winter Promise's books for enrichment ( my library has a ton of them). The books about jobs in Ancient Egypt as an example. Also, I'm going to use hands and hearts history kits for art projects ( my hubby found those and told me to buy them). I get the best of all worlds this way! Link here http://handsandhearts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=2

Kim

Edited May 28, 2010 by zookeeperof3
http://handsandhearts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=2

[Sugarfoot]

I'm not anti-Protestant.

 

I just don't want to start reading a book out loud and come upon an anti-Catholic sentiment which is out of my mouth before I catch it. Or have my dd come to me with something she has read that says something about how Catholics aren't really Christians because they are a cult of the sun god. :001_huh:

 

So it is things like that which Catholics have to be careful of. Again, I'm not anti-Protestant, just a Catholic that wants to stay faithful to the Church.

 

Me, too. My DC were looking over my shoulder at the WP catalog and actually ASKED me if we could get the American Crossing 1400-1860 program for next year. They have never shown that much interest in what I've planned to do. They both love arts and crafts, so I'd order all the extras.

 

What to do?

[Lovedtodeath]

Also, I'm going to use hands and hearts history kits for art projects ( my hubby found those and told me to buy them). I get the best of all worlds this way! Link here http://handsandhearts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=2

Kim

Don't those come with devotionals?

[zookeeperof3]

Don't those come with devotionals?

No, it comes with Bible Truth Memory Cards, which I would skip. I just want the crafts, so I don't have to hunt for them. We live 30 miles from the closest city with a craft store, so it makes more sense for me to buy a kit with it all there.

Kim