What if you have a dc that just CAN'T GET the "whys" behind math?

[Chloe]

My 12yo dd has been doing Horizons this year and doing well, but she doesn't understand what she is doing. She just knows what she is supposed to do to get the answer and does it. She doesn't know the "whys" behind the concepts. She was the one to come to me and tell me this. It was confirmed last week when we got the results of her first standardized testing. She did well with math computation and problem solving, but poorly on math concepts and estimation. I have been trying to use MUS to get her to understand what she is doing. She tested into Epsilon (what I expected), so we have been working through it from the beginning. It isn't helping. She is so upset and frustrated because she just doesn't understand MUS. She can do the lessons and get all the answers right, but doesn't understand how MUS is teaching it. Even when I go over it with her she looks lost. She just says, "I know what I'm supposed to do. Can't I just do it? I'm getting confused trying to understand why it's done." What should I do? She will most likely not go into a math-heavy field. She wants to be a writer, and that is where her strengths lie. Should I just have her finish Horizons (she will be ready to start Horizons 6 next month) or go completely to MUS and pray the "whys" start coming to her. She likes Horizons, but it only goes to 6th grade, so we'll have to switch in a year anyway. Then what?

 

I'd appreciate any advice on this.

 

Thanks!

[Tutor]

:bigear:

[Ellie]

Some of us have to just do it and worry about understanding it later. :-)

[Surfside Academy]

Well, I'll give it a shot. Math is foundational; adding builds upon subtraction which builds upon multiplication& division, etc. Your daughter is moving into more advanced mathematics without really understanding arithmetic. I know she tested at Episolon but it sounds like it was only because she knows how to plug numbers into formulas. I would seriously consider stepping back to earlier MUS books in an attempt to work on those foundational skills. She will probably progess really quickly but hopefully will begin to understand important topics like place value, deconstructing a higher value and the like.

 

I would also recommend picking up a copy of Liping Ma's book Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics. There has been a fascinating thread about the book here for the past few days.

[Corraleno]

She just says, "I know what I'm supposed to do. Can't I just do it? I'm getting confused trying to understand why it's done." What should I do? She will most likely not go into a math-heavy field. She wants to be a writer, and that is where her strengths lie. Should I just have her finish Horizons (she will be ready to start Horizons 6 next month) or go completely to MUS and pray the "whys" start coming to her. She likes Horizons, but it only goes to 6th grade, so we'll have to switch in a year anyway. Then what?

Have you tried Life of Fred? Start with Fractions after she finishes Horizons 5, and see if that works for her — the story format may appeal to her strengths, as well as illustrating the concepts in a concrete, real-world context, rather than in an abstract way. I'd still have her do Horizons 6 next year, though, to make sure she's at least covered math up to Pre-Algebra without gaps, and supplement with LoF Decimals & Percents.

 

If Life of Fred works for her, you can continue with Pre-Algebra I (with Biology) and Pre-Algebra II (with Economics) next year, and then Beginning Algebra. LoF goes all the way up to Calculus, Statistics, and Linear Algebra, so she could stick with LoF all the way through HS if she likes it. It's a complete program if you use it with the Home Companions.

 

If LoF doesn't work for her, I'd try Teaching Textbooks after she finishes Horizons 6, especially if she's not planning on a math-heavy career.

 

Jackie

[walkermamaof4]

We were having the same trouble with our dd10, even though we used MUS foundations and intro with her before switching to another program. After reading a lot on this forum a few weeks ago, I saw a link to thesingaporemaths.com and we worked through it slowly and carefully. It has helped her so, so much! She needs a visual of what is really being said, and now she knows a systematic way to draw one. I also ordered the following books for further practice and help now that we have progressed through the help available on that site. Step-By-Step Model Drawing: Solving Word Problems the Singapore Way

Singapore Math 70 Must-Know Word Problems

I found that book cheapest and bn.com

 

 

HTH!

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Well, I'll give it a shot. Math is foundational; adding builds upon subtraction which builds upon multiplication& division, etc. Your daughter is moving into more advanced mathematics without really understanding arithmetic. I know she tested at Episolon but it sounds like it was only because she knows how to plug numbers into formulas. I would seriously consider stepping back to earlier MUS books in an attempt to work on those foundational skills. She will probably progess really quickly but hopefully will begin to understand important topics like place value, deconstructing a higher value and the like.

 

I would also recommend picking up a copy of Liping Ma's book Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics. There has been a fascinating thread about the book here for the past few days.

 

:iagree: When I switched my children to MUS after 4 and 5 years of Horizons and 3/4 year of Saxon we went all the way back to Alpha because they had no conceptual understanding of math. One child could "do" math and did very well even though he had no idea what he was doing. The other was drowning. Starting them in the middle of MUS wasn't going to help them because they didn't have the foundation to understand conceptually.

 

If you can't afford to go back that far with MUS I'd buy Mammoth Math's complete Light Blue curriculum. It teaches conceptually and grades 1-6A (be will be out later this year) will only cost $109 (and is 20% off that if you buy before June 1st).

 

I second reading Ma's book! I'm in the process of reading it and think it should be required reading for all homeschoolers!!

Edited May 24, 2010 by Cheryl in SoCal

[happygrrl]

:iagree: When I switched my children to MUS after 4 and 5 years of Horizons and 3/4 year of Saxon we went all the way back to Alpha because they had no conceptual understanding of math. One child could "do" math and did very well even though he had no idea what he was doing. The other was drowning. Starting them in the middle of MUS wasn't going to help them because they didn't have the foundation to understand conceptually.

 

If you can't afford to go back that far with MUS I'd buy Mammoth Math's complete Light Blue curriculum. It teaches conceptually and grades 1-6A (be will be out later this year) will only cost $109 (and is 20% off that if you buy before June 1st).

I second reading Ma's book! I'm in the process of reading it and think it should be required reading for all homeschoolers!!

 

I have 2 separate issues and wonder what you all think about them.

 

DS (13) had asperger's and is making a B in MUS Epsilon. We have to go slow with him, as some things take longer to click. When we get stuck in MUS we stop and do some Developmental Math and then go back to MUS. I think he does a great job at figuring out the plug-in-numbers patterns but I don't think he 'gets' it. Should I try to supplement with MM? Or is it just too intuitive? (I am starting to think he does not have the ability to think abstractly, a problem for some Aspies. We are having trouble with logic as well :() If MM would work for us, how does one go about figuring where to start (since MUS is so different?). Is the look too 'baby-ish' for a 13 year old (a problem with Singapore). I have Liping Ma's book, and it totally helped me. It doesn't seem like the resulting improvement in my teaching skills is getting through to him!

 

My ds (9) is on the other end of the spectrum. He can do MUS forward and backwards, loves math, and once worked three lessons ahead without the DVD's ("because the process is obvious, mom!"). I am thinking of adding in MM, would this be overkill? And again, how does one transition from MUS?

 

I know these are basic questions, but I have been researching MM here on the boards and there is *so* much info that I am thoroughly confused!

[cathmom]

My 12yo dd has been doing Horizons this year and doing well, but she doesn't understand what she is doing. She just knows what she is supposed to do to get the answer and does it. She doesn't know the "whys" behind the concepts. She was the one to come to me and tell me this. It was confirmed last week when we got the results of her first standardized testing. She did well with math computation and problem solving, but poorly on math concepts and estimation. I have been trying to use MUS to get her to understand what she is doing. She tested into Epsilon (what I expected), so we have been working through it from the beginning. It isn't helping. She is so upset and frustrated because she just doesn't understand MUS. She can do the lessons and get all the answers right, but doesn't understand how MUS is teaching it. Even when I go over it with her she looks lost. She just says, "I know what I'm supposed to do. Can't I just do it? I'm getting confused trying to understand why it's done." What should I do? She will most likely not go into a math-heavy field. She wants to be a writer, and that is where her strengths lie. Should I just have her finish Horizons (she will be ready to start Horizons 6 next month) or go completely to MUS and pray the "whys" start coming to her. She likes Horizons, but it only goes to 6th grade, so we'll have to switch in a year anyway. Then what?

 

I'd appreciate any advice on this.

 

Thanks!

 

Your dd and my dd should hang out. Mine wants to be a writer too.

[Surfside Academy]

My ds (9) is on the other end of the spectrum. He can do MUS forward and backwards, loves math, and once worked three lessons ahead without the DVD's ("because the process is obvious, mom!"). I am thinking of adding in MM, would this be overkill? And again, how does one transition from MUS?

 

I've never used MM but I've read here that it is very easy to supplment along with MUS. I'm using Life of Fred Fractions as a supplement to MUS and am loving it! It's also very easy to supplement with other curriculums. It's definitely worth taking a look.

[happygrrl]

I've never used MM but I've read here that it is very easy to supplment along with MUS. I'm using Life of Fred Fractions as a supplement to MUS and am loving it! It's also very easy to supplement with other curriculums. It's definitely worth taking a look.

 

When did you add in LoF? My dd is using Fractions and I had not thought of letting younger try it too! (slaps hand to forehead). He would love it! (especially if we did it together on the couch, he's a cuddler.)

[lionfamily1999]

For Geometry issues, I recommend Groovy Geometry (it's a lot of fun and there are hands on projects that show how different concepts actually work in real life).

 

If it's things like carrying or borrowing, this is what has helped ds (thank you Singapore): I made a place value chart through 10,000 on a manilla folder. Then I made tokens for each place (18 ones, 18 tens, 18 hundreds &tc). Together we would work out problems laying them out on the place value chart, the two numbers were separated by the fold in the folder. Ds could see, first hand, WHY he was carrying a number and HOW borrowing worked. Also, with multiplication, it's made it clear why he doesn't multiply the number he's carried. Whenever we start to have problems we go back to this chart.

 

hth

[siloam]

My 12yo dd has been doing Horizons this year and doing well, but she doesn't understand what she is doing. She just knows what she is supposed to do to get the answer and does it. She doesn't know the "whys" behind the concepts. She was the one to come to me and tell me this. It was confirmed last week when we got the results of her first standardized testing. She did well with math computation and problem solving, but poorly on math concepts and estimation. I have been trying to use MUS to get her to understand what she is doing. She tested into Epsilon (what I expected), so we have been working through it from the beginning. It isn't helping. She is so upset and frustrated because she just doesn't understand MUS. She can do the lessons and get all the answers right, but doesn't understand how MUS is teaching it. Even when I go over it with her she looks lost. She just says, "I know what I'm supposed to do. Can't I just do it? I'm getting confused trying to understand why it's done." What should I do? She will most likely not go into a math-heavy field. She wants to be a writer, and that is where her strengths lie. Should I just have her finish Horizons (she will be ready to start Horizons 6 next month) or go completely to MUS and pray the "whys" start coming to her. She likes Horizons, but it only goes to 6th grade, so we'll have to switch in a year anyway. Then what?

 

I'd appreciate any advice on this.

 

Thanks!

 

I adore math, and have always done very well on computation. Scheduled my calculus classes in college and 8AM so I could skip them, read the book and do the problems, still go straight A's in the class.

 

Like you dd I just did the problems. I didn't need to know why, and didn't care then. I just loved playing with numbers (became a bookkeeper/accountant).

 

Honestly I think I was just behind on some of the higher level analysis development. It wasn't till my late 20's that I feel most of my analytical skills really kicked in, and now I do care and enjoy learning why.

 

Do you best, but if in the end she just wants to do the math, let her.

 

Heather

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

I have 2 separate issues and wonder what you all think about them.

 

DS (13) had asperger's and is making a B in MUS Epsilon. We have to go slow with him, as some things take longer to click. When we get stuck in MUS we stop and do some Developmental Math and then go back to MUS. I think he does a great job at figuring out the plug-in-numbers patterns but I don't think he 'gets' it. Should I try to supplement with MM? Or is it just too intuitive? (I am starting to think he does not have the ability to think abstractly, a problem for some Aspies. We are having trouble with logic as well :() If MM would work for us, how does one go about figuring where to start (since MUS is so different?). Is the look too 'baby-ish' for a 13 year old (a problem with Singapore). I have Liping Ma's book, and it totally helped me. It doesn't seem like the resulting improvement in my teaching skills is getting through to him!

 

My ds (9) is on the other end of the spectrum. He can do MUS forward and backwards, loves math, and once worked three lessons ahead without the DVD's ("because the process is obvious, mom!"). I am thinking of adding in MM, would this be overkill? And again, how does one transition from MUS?

 

I know these are basic questions, but I have been researching MM here on the boards and there is *so* much info that I am thoroughly confused!

 

I don't think they are basic questions at all! First, let me say that I'm not a MM expert. I didn't know about MM when my older children were going through MUS so I haven't used it along side MUS all this time. I bought MM this year to supplement MUS for my 6 year old dd, who is currently in Alpha. I've been extremely pleased with what I've seen so far but am not an expert.

 

As far as adding it to MUS, that's been pretty easy so far because you can by MM organized by topic (Blue Series) or by grade (Light Blue Series). I bought the Blue series because it being organized by topic makes it easy to find worksheets that will go along with MUS because it's also organized by topic. I use MM slightly behind MUS so everything is introduced in MUS while it's being reinforced and/or learned a slightly different way in MM.

 

I recently added LOF to MUS for my older children. I'm pretty new to it too but really loving it. My plan is to keep it about a semester behind MUS so everything is introduced in MUS and reinforced and/or learned a slightly different way in LOF. Since you have to do LOF in order due to the story I'm staying further behind in it than MM with my dd.

 

I don't know whether or not it would be overkill for your older son. I'd be inclined to try and see what happens since it's so inexpensive and you can use it with an infinite number of children (if you happen to have an infinite number of children;)). If it's a lot of work for him but helps I'd probably slow him down enough to be able to do both as truly understanding math would be my goal. If you think it would work for him or want to give it a try you could go about adding it a couple of ways. Depending on what he really understands conceptually you could start working it into where he is now or use MM to review basics he has already covered with MUS but still doesn't really understand. You could start MM during the summer in-between MUS levels for review and then continue on with it when you start the next level of MUS.

 

I don't know about your other son either but if he's enjoying math he might enjoy doing some extra/different things. My dd is the same way. She was moving very quickly and wanted to do all her worksheets for a lesson in one day. I bought MM to give her more to do so she wasn't moving too fast, with the added advantage of increased review and seeing things a little differently. Since your son has no issues with understanding math I'd start him a little behind where he is at in MM if you decide to try it.

 

Those are my impressions and how I think I would do things. Hopefully someone who has used MM for longer can give their opinion(s) as well!

[TracyR]

I adore math, and have always done very well on computation. Scheduled my calculus classes in college and 8AM so I could skip them, read the book and do the problems, still go straight A's in the class.

 

Like you dd I just did the problems. I didn't need to know why, and didn't care then. I just loved playing with numbers (became a bookkeeper/accountant).

 

Honestly I think I was just behind on some of the higher level analysis development. It wasn't till my late 20's that I feel most of my analytical skills really kicked in, and now I do care and enjoy learning why.

 

Do you best, but if in the end she just wants to do the math, let her.

 

Heather

:iagree: I totally agree with this. The one thing I have learned are there are just some children who like to work with the numbers first before learning conceptual math. Not all children 'get it' in the beginning. My oldest understand's math in this manner and she thrives off of it. Does very well with it.

 

My 2nd daughter I ended up pushing. I had read so many posts here on how teaching math conceptually was the better way. So I stuck my heels in and forced this type of mathematical learning on my daughter. Totally refusing to use programs like Saxon or Christian Light or Horizons.

I will be the first to admit it was the BIGGEST mistake forcing it on her. She just did not understand at all. Would look at me like I had ten heads and would cry and tell me that she was stupid in math and didn't understand it. So I finally caved in, bought Saxon for her and a light has gone on for her. For now I just want her to love math. She just isn't quite ready to understand it yet. Doesn't mean it will be forever. I'm sure at some point in her life she'll want to know why, a nd I'll continue to throw some conceptual math in there from time to time to find out when she is ready.

As for now she is just happy 'doing' the math. Its making her happy now and she is more willing to do her math and there are no more tears. It makes me happy to see her happy now.

 

Now unless your daughter is asking why, then I would maybe start from the beginning of the MUS program and work with the concepts she isn't understanding. If she isn't asking why and the program is frustrating her I would shelf it for now and let her do what she does best before you do what I did and create a child that detests math.

Edited May 24, 2010 by TracyR

[TracyR]

I have 2 separate issues and wonder what you all think about them.

 

DS (13) had asperger's and is making a B in MUS Epsilon. We have to go slow with him, as some things take longer to click. When we get stuck in MUS we stop and do some Developmental Math and then go back to MUS. I think he does a great job at figuring out the plug-in-numbers patterns but I don't think he 'gets' it. Should I try to supplement with MM? Or is it just too intuitive? (I am starting to think he does not have the ability to think abstractly, a problem for some Aspies. We are having trouble with logic as well :() If MM would work for us, how does one go about figuring where to start (since MUS is so different?). Is the look too 'baby-ish' for a 13 year old (a problem with Singapore). I have Liping Ma's book, and it totally helped me. It doesn't seem like the resulting improvement in my teaching skills is getting through to him!

 

Wow. You know that there is such a wide spectrum with children with autism. I have met children with autism that are amazing with numbers and others who just cannot grasp a concept of what a number even is.

 

I honestly would work with whatever makes sense and not worry about whether he is getting math conceptually or not at this point in his life. Honestly I would use something like Saxon, CLE or Horizons. If that is what makes the most sense to him use it. Don't force something on him if its not how he understands best.

[happygrrl]

I don't think they are basic questions at all! First, let me say that I'm not a MM expert. I didn't know about MM when my older children were going through MUS so I haven't used it along side MUS all this time. I bought MM this year to supplement MUS for my 6 year old dd, who is currently in Alpha. I've been extremely pleased with what I've seen so far but am not an expert.

 

As far as adding it to MUS, that's been pretty easy so far because you can by MM organized by topic (Blue Series) or by grade (Light Blue Series). I bought the Blue series because it being organized by topic makes it easy to find worksheets that will go along with MUS because it's also organized by topic. I use MM slightly behind MUS so everything is introduced in MUS while it's being reinforced and/or learned a slightly different way in MM.

 

I recently added LOF to MUS for my older children. I'm pretty new to it too but really loving it. My plan is to keep it about a semester behind MUS so everything is introduced in MUS and reinforced and/or learned a slightly different way in LOF. Since you have to do LOF in order due to the story I'm staying further behind in it than MM with my dd.

 

I don't know whether or not it would be overkill for your older son. I'd be inclined to try and see what happens since it's so inexpensive and you can use it with an infinite number of children (if you happen to have an infinite number of children;)). If it's a lot of work for him but helps I'd probably slow him down enough to be able to do both as truly understanding math would be my goal. If you think it would work for him or want to give it a try you could go about adding it a couple of ways. Depending on what he really understands conceptually you could start working it into where he is now or use MM to review basics he has already covered with MUS but still doesn't really understand. You could start MM during the summer in-between MUS levels for review and then continue on with it when you start the next level of MUS.

 

I don't know about your other son either but if he's enjoying math he might enjoy doing some extra/different things. My dd is the same way. She was moving very quickly and wanted to do all her worksheets for a lesson in one day. I bought MM to give her more to do so she wasn't moving too fast, with the added advantage of increased review and seeing things a little differently. Since your son has no issues with understanding math I'd start him a little behind where he is at in MM if you decide to try it.

 

Those are my impressions and how I think I would do things. Hopefully someone who has used MM for longer can give their opinion(s) as well!

 

Thanks, Cheryl! I am off to look more closely at the series. :auto:

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

:iagree: I totally agree with this. The one thing I have learned are there are just some children who like to work with the numbers first before learning conceptual math. Not all children 'get it' in the beginning. My oldest understand's math in this manner and she thrives off of it. Does very well with it.

 

My 2nd daughter I ended up pushing. I had read so many posts here on how teaching math conceptually was the better way. So I stuck my heels in and forced this type of mathematical learning on my daughter. Totally refusing to use programs like Saxon or Christian Light or Horizons.

I will be the first to admit it was the BIGGEST mistake forcing it on her. She just did not understand at all. Would look at me like I had ten heads and would cry and tell me that she was stupid in math and didn't understand it. So I finally caved in, bought Saxon for her and a light has gone on for her. For now I just want her to love math. She just isn't quite ready to understand it yet. Doesn't mean it will be forever. I'm sure at some point in her life she'll want to know why, a nd I'll continue to throw some conceptual math in there from time to time to find out when she is ready.

As for now she is just happy 'doing' the math. Its making her happy now and she is more willing to do her math and there are no more tears. It makes me happy to see her happy now.

 

Now unless your daughter is asking why, then I would maybe start from the beginning of the MUS program and work with the concepts she isn't understanding. If she isn't asking why and the program is frustrating her I would shelf it for now and let her do what she does best before you do what I did and create a child that detests math.

 

Wow. You know that there is such a wide spectrum with children with autism. I have met children with autism that are amazing with numbers and others who just cannot grasp a concept of what a number even is.

 

I honestly would work with whatever makes sense and not worry about whether he is getting math conceptually or not at this point in his life. Honestly I would use something like Saxon, CLE or Horizons. If that is what makes the most sense to him use it. Don't force something on him if its not how he understands best.

 

 

I respectfully disagree. I would not teach a child how to "do" math instead of conceptually understand math unless LD's made it impossible for them to learn math conceptually. The brain matures at different rates in different children and if they aren't ready to learn math conceptually I would wait until they were ready.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Cheryl in SoCal

[happygrrl]

 

Wow. You know that there is such a wide spectrum with children with autism. I have met children with autism that are amazing with numbers and others who just cannot grasp a concept of what a number even is.

 

I honestly would work with whatever makes sense and not worry about whether he is getting math conceptually or not at this point in his life. Honestly I would use something like Saxon, CLE or Horizons. If that is what makes the most sense to him use it. Don't force something on him if its not how he understands best.

 

Tracy- Hmmm. This does make me feel better! I forget that maybe not getting it is OK. :)

 

I think the problem is that we are now on fractions... they are an abstract concept for him. The idea that equivalent fractions are equal (even though comprised of different numbers) is something he has memorized but does not "own". So, even though it sounds great that he has a B average, I know that he is just repeating the same actions over and over. When asked to do a word problem that might require a different process than the previous problem he draws a blank. It may be another one of those maturity issues.

 

I will look at the programs you mentioned as well. Thanks!

[happygrrl]

 

 

I respectfully disagree. I would not teach a child how to "do" math instead of conceptually understand math unless LD's made it impossible for them to learn math conceptually. The brain matures at different rates in different children and if they aren't ready to learn math conceptually I would wait until they were ready.

 

You know, we were watching a Dickens film last night (Little Dorrit) and for the first time he "got" what a symbol was, that the physical house in the story represented the lineage of the family ("house"). Perhaps I really am bumping against a maturity issue that is about to change. I could teach him what he already knows (from a different angle to cement the knowledge) while waiting until he was ready to understand deeper ideas.....

 

sigh. I just don't want to sell him short. Thanks for your advice!

 

(OP, please forgive me for this hijack!)

[nmoira]

 

I respectfully disagree. I would not teach a child how to "do" math instead of conceptually understand math unless LD's made it impossible for them to learn math conceptually. The brain matures at different rates in different children and if they aren't ready to learn math conceptually I would wait until they were ready.

I think this point is critical because if a child understands the "why's" and has a feel for the material, they can reason their way to the "how's." Otherwise, when the time comes that the material is no longer used regularly... 2, 5, 10 years from now, it will be lost completely.

[nd293]

We switched to Singapore because of similar issues with Horizons. It's been a very difficult year, but we are gettting there slowly.

 

I would also look around on the Internet and try to find a set of maths explanations that appeals. Sometimes a slightly different approach can clear things up. I really like the Maths is Fun explanations.

[Corraleno]

I think MM works particularly well for 2 kinds of kids:

(1) Kids who "get" math but want deeper conceptual explanations and more challenging problems than they'd get in a standard text, and

(2) Kids who are struggling with math because they're missing the conceptual pieces of the puzzle.

 

Kids may fall into the second category for a variety of reasons. They may be whole-to-part learners, who need to see the "big picture" and how everything fits together in order to make sense of the individual parts — for these kids, a spiral, procedural math program would just seem like a random and incoherent assortment of facts and formulas. Other kids may not be good at intuitive or inferential learning, and may need to have things spelled out very explicitly in order to grasp them. Visual/spatial learners may need to have the concepts explained visually so they can really "see" what they're doing instead of just plugging numbers into a formula they don't understand.

 

My DS falls into category #2, for all three reasons listed above, and Math Mammoth has been nothing short of miraculous for him.

 

DS (13) had asperger's and is making a B in MUS Epsilon. We have to go slow with him, as some things take longer to click. When we get stuck in MUS we stop and do some Developmental Math and then go back to MUS. I think he does a great job at figuring out the plug-in-numbers patterns but I don't think he 'gets' it. Should I try to supplement with MM? Or is it just too intuitive? (I am starting to think he does not have the ability to think abstractly, a problem for some Aspies. We are having trouble with logic as well :() If MM would work for us, how does one go about figuring where to start (since MUS is so different?). Is the look too 'baby-ish' for a 13 year old (a problem with Singapore).

The explanations in Math Mammoth are very clear and explicit, and I think they're ideal for kids who are not good at intuitive/inferential learning. I don't think the look is "babyish" at all. You could try some of the Blue Series books on Fractions to align with Epsilon and see how it goes. I think MM's explanations of fractions/decimals/percent/ratio are extremely good.

 

My ds (9) is on the other end of the spectrum. He can do MUS forward and backwards, loves math, and once worked three lessons ahead without the DVD's ("because the process is obvious, mom!"). I am thinking of adding in MM, would this be overkill? And again, how does one transition from MUS?

He would probably love MM, it goes much deeper than MUS and the problems are much more challenging. I would think a mathy kid would zoom through MUS quite quickly — I just bought MUS Pre-Algebra for DS12 and after looking through it and watching some of the videos, I think DS would go through it in about month. Look at the placement tests and the Tables of Contents for the Light Blue series on the MM website and figure out where he'd place. If he's only missing one or two concepts, I'd just get Blue series books on those topics, then put him in the Light Blue books. If he loves math, he should really enjoy MM, especially the meaty word problems and "Puzzle Corner" problems. Is he almost finished with his current level of MUS? You could try him in one of the MM Light Blue books over the summer and if he enjoys it, you could just stick with MM in the fall.

 

Jackie

[happygrrl]

 

The explanations in Math Mammoth are very clear and explicit, and I think they're ideal for kids who are not good at intuitive/inferential learning. I don't think the look is "babyish" at all. You could try some of the Blue Series books on Fractions to align with Epsilon and see how it goes. I think MM's explanations of fractions/decimals/percent/ratio are extremely good.

I would think a mathy kid would zoom through MUS quite quickly — I just bought MUS Pre-Algebra for DS12 and after looking through it and watching some of the videos, I think DS would go through it in about month. Look at the placement tests and the Tables of Contents for the Light Blue series on the MM website and figure out where he'd place. If he's only missing one or two concepts, I'd just get Blue series books on those topics, then put him in the Light Blue books. If he loves math, he should really enjoy MM, especially the meaty word problems and "Puzzle Corner" problems. Is he almost finished with his current level of MUS? You could try him in one of the MM Light Blue books over the summer and if he enjoys it, you could just stick with MM in the fall.

 

Jackie

 

Jackie- this was extremely helpful.

I just pulled up samples for ds younger, and he asked if we could start tonight :D. Your insight on inferential learning hit the nail on the head.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Chloe]

Have you tried Life of Fred? Start with Fractions after she finishes Horizons 5, and see if that works for her — the story format may appeal to her strengths, as well as illustrating the concepts in a concrete, real-world context, rather than in an abstract way. I'd still have her do Horizons 6 next year, though, to make sure she's at least covered math up to Pre-Algebra without gaps, and supplement with LoF Decimals & Percents.

 

If Life of Fred works for her, you can continue with Pre-Algebra I (with Biology) and Pre-Algebra II (with Economics) next year, and then Beginning Algebra. LoF goes all the way up to Calculus, Statistics, and Linear Algebra, so she could stick with LoF all the way through HS if she likes it. It's a complete program if you use it with the Home Companions.

 

If LoF doesn't work for her, I'd try Teaching Textbooks after she finishes Horizons 6, especially if she's not planning on a math-heavy career.

 

Jackie

 

Thanks, Jackie. I have considered LOF but wasn't sure if I should use it alone or with something else. I may have her do LOF this summer and start Horizons 6 in the fall.

[Chloe]

I adore math, and have always done very well on computation. Scheduled my calculus classes in college and 8AM so I could skip them, read the book and do the problems, still go straight A's in the class.

 

Like you dd I just did the problems. I didn't need to know why, and didn't care then. I just loved playing with numbers (became a bookkeeper/accountant).

 

Honestly I think I was just behind on some of the higher level analysis development. It wasn't till my late 20's that I feel most of my analytical skills really kicked in, and now I do care and enjoy learning why.

 

Do you best, but if in the end she just wants to do the math, let her.

Heather

 

Thanks, Heather. This is what my gut is telling me too. She's 12yo and going through a lot right now with her hormones. It's bringing out some OCD issues, which are more thought-oriented than physical/ritualistic issues. I actually think she understands more than she thinks. It's just the OCD making her doubt everything.

[siloam]

Thanks, Heather. This is what my gut is telling me too. She's 12yo and going through a lot right now with her hormones. It's bringing out some OCD issues, which are more thought-oriented than physical/ritualistic issues. I actually think she understands more than she thinks. It's just the OCD making her doubt everything.

 

LOL! Oh the misery! My 12 has forgotten how to read directions. She never reduces anything anymore. Between the two issues she got half her math wrong last week. :001_huh: Thus she is going though some of the same insecurity issues, and fear/OCD type stuff.

 

I go back and forth between being really frustrated and telling myself to chill because she probably can't control it. I try to stay on the chill side but by the time I am correcting the 4th math assignment that is half wrong it is really hard (this will pass, this will pass, this will pass....). :D

 

Heather

[Chloe]

LOL! Oh the misery! My 12 has forgotten how to read directions. She never reduces anything anymore. Between the two issues she got half her math wrong last week. :001_huh: Thus she is going though some of the same insecurity issues, and fear/OCD type stuff.

 

I go back and forth between being really frustrated and telling myself to chill because she probably can't control it. I try to stay on the chill side but by the time I am correcting the 4th math assignment that is half wrong it is really hard (this will pass, this will pass, this will pass....). :D

 

Heather

 

LOL! Well, I hope it passes very soon! My dd used to be an avid reader, but since she's been going through this hormonal stage she can't seem to focus on anything for more than ten minutes. Her mind starts wandering while she's reading and she ends up reading the same paragraph five times before she knows what she's read. I can barely get her to finish a book a month now. :sad: It frustrates her so much and she's cried over it many times. I know she can't help it, but I'm getting impatient with the whole thing. I don't remember going through anything like this!