Would you continue at this piano studio?

[Allearia]

My son has had a wonderful piano teacher for three years. We are in the Bay Area, so although the fee of $48 for a 45 minute piano lesson is expensive it is in line with others here.

 

But there are some new things happening that I am questioning.

 

She felt my son is ready for the Piano Workshops she gives once per month - about 10 kids, they each play 1 or 2 songs for each other and do some theory. Great, but it takes place of one of the lessons. But we still pay $48 x 4 per month--we are only getting 3 private lessons during that month and one group thing, which while nice is NOT worth $48.

 

She today handed out her new policy stating there will be no private make up lessons. So if you miss a lesson you can come to one extra workshop at some unspecified future time. We will miss the workshop this Saturday, so we are out a lesson. We still must pay though.

 

She takes off 2 weeks in the summer and 2 weeks in the winter, and it looks like you still have to pay the same amount per month all year no matter what - miss lessons, she is on vacation, there is a workshop it will still be $192 per month.

 

Anyone else take lessons at a studio set up like this? Does this seem reasonable to you?

[SonshineLearner]

Wow... not for us!! Gotta be someone who can teach an 8 yr old that is less....

[Jen+4dc]

My piano teacher in CA did a "recital class" once a month in lieu of a lesson. But, she only charged 1/2 price that week. If we missed a lesson and it was our fault, we paid. If she had something come up and had to cancel a lesson, we either didn't pay for that lesson or we had a make-up lesson. This I thought was reasonable.

 

What you have described I find unreasonable:glare:. If the teacher is canceling the lesson to go on vacation I don't think the student should have to pay. I also would NOT pay $48 for my kid to sit in a big group and learn theory. I think that's valuable and having opportunities to play in front of others is very valuable, but not worth the price of an entire lesson.

 

Have you discussed this with the teacher? Perhaps you can "veto" the idea of ds starting the group lessons right now....

 

If you're not comfortable with her policies and you've discussed it with her and are still not comfortable, I'd look for another teacher.

[Jennifer in MI]

Wow. I guess the group theory class wouldn't bother me too much. If that's what she's doing, I'd go with it if you like this teacher. But, I'd have a HUGE problem paying for the four weeks she's gone. Is this teacher in that much demand that she can do that and get away with it?

 

My kids' teacher charges a little less - $36 for a 45 minute lesson, which is high for our area. But, she's down the street and I'm willing to pay not to have to drive!!! Plus, she's amazing!! Anyway, if we miss a lesson due to illness, she deducts that lesson from our bill. She takes one month off in August and we do not pay that month.

[StephanieZ]

I would tell her you are not interested in the monthly workshops -- and tell her why -- that it doesn't seem as valuable to you as the private lessons (for the same cost). . . . and that if it were offerred for a more modest fee, you'd be willing to add it to your schedule, but that you think missing a week of private lessons is not worth the monthly workshop. (FWIW, you can buy great theory software or workbook series for the cost of ONE lesson! We're loving Alfred's Complete Music Theory software!)

 

Our music school offers these "audition days" where advanced students do a mock audition for a couple teachers who give them comments. Likewise, they charge you for a full lesson for the audition. We pay about $50 for each hour lesson. The auditions are about 10 min. So, for my 3 kids, I'd pay $150 for 30 min of audition time with two modestly-talented teachers (not the cream of the crop teachers, like the ones who actually TEACH my kids.) Well, I can (and do) sign them up for similar but REAL auditions with high caliber judges through another organization for $8 each. Needless to say, I don't do the auditions and the teacher was perfectly understanding as to why!

 

I would also ask her straight out if you are paying her for the weeks she is on vacation? I have *never* heard of a music teacher doing that! I don't think that is fair, but if you just average it out and add up the paid vacation/holiday weeks and do the math to add that into your hourly fees, it might add 10 -20% to your fees. . . If that rate is still in the reasonable range for your region, I guess I could accept it. But, really, that is a crock, IMHO.

 

If you don't have to miss many private lessons, then I might be willing to swallow paying for the missed ones. For private lessons, the teacher essentially blocks out your slot each week and can't just pick up some other paying gig for that 45 min slot. . . So, I have been willing to pay for our slot even when we have to miss. Our teachers have generally been willing to do make-ups (at their convenience, of course) in nearly all circumstances, and so I can see being irritated by the no make-ups policy. Of hundreds of paid lessons over the years, I have only paid for a couple that I missed -- and those were the ones where I just forgot and no-showed. All the sick/outoftown/etc ones were made up or not charged so long as I gave some reasonable notice. If you travel for extended period or have a lot of illness in your family, then the policy might be more of a deal breaker. We travel a good bit, and I make sure we can get credited for those dates or else I'd be really steamed. . .

 

- Stephanie

(having paid for at least 33 kid-years of music lessons from 6 teachers thus far. . . OMG, that is a scary ## if I start thinking of the $$$$)

[Allearia]

I would also ask her straight out if you are paying her for the weeks she is on vacation? I have *never* heard of a music teacher doing that! I don't think that is fair, but if you just average it out and add up the paid vacation/holiday weeks and do the math to add that into your hourly fees, it might add 10 -20% to your fees. . . If that rate is still in the reasonable range for your region, I guess I could accept it. But, really, that is a crock, IMHO.

 

The policy sheet we got today had a section called "Paid vacations, holidays and holiday weekends," and vacations are in this section. Students talking lessons on Saturday and Monday which might include more holidays get a discount of $15 per month.

 

I'm just trying to gauge how usual this is and figure out how to talk to her or what our plan is.

 

I really get also about not giving make up lessons, but combined with only three real lessons a month for the price of four might be a deal breaker.

Edited May 18, 2010 by allearia

[Starr]

This would not be usual in our musical community.

[snickelfritz]

I would opt out of the group lessons and only use those if you miss a lesson.

 

ETA.... Our teacher makes up ALL missed lessons. My teacher growing up discounted tuition for any lessons SHE missed, but not any WE missed. No paid vacations for either of them.

Edited May 18, 2010 by snickelfritz

[Jenny in GA]

I used to run a piano studio, and have many many on-line discussion with other studio music teachers, and this is not that unusual.

 

I read it fast -- she is letting you attend a group lesson as a make-up, right?

 

My girls take dance, and there are no dance classes the weeks of Thanksgiving or Christmas. But we don't ask for a refund, or pay a different price that month.

 

If it helps, imagine that it's tuition at a music school (which it is, really), and that's what the price is for the year. Now, that price may be too high for your tastes, and that's understandable, and that's something you obviously need to think about.

 

But, IMO, charging less one month because a kid was sick, and less another month because another kid was on vacation, and then less next month because it's Christmas break, etc, etc, would be very unprofessional.

 

 

Good luck

Jenny

[May]

We recently moved to this area and my dd has a new violin teacher. Her studio policy is that she doesn't schedule make-up lessons but if she is notified, she will open that lesson to the first person to e-mail her. She figures it's paid for. So, if you miss a lesson, you do have a chance of making it up or even get an extra lesson for free. We also missed lessons due to snow this winter and some of those were made up. But I was told that isn't always the case. It's just this winter we had lots of snow days.:) She also does a group class about once a month and that takes the place of a regular lesson. The amount we pay is the same per month and I do know that she has missed a couple of times because professional workshops. If you have a teacher that is in demand, they can afford to have stricter studio policies because they know they can fill the slot. My dd likes this teacher, progress is being made and her prices aren't excessive for this area. If you plan on leaving, my advice would be to make sure you have another teacher lined up.

[Allearia]

We recently moved to this area and my dd has a new violin teacher. Her studio policy is that she doesn't schedule make-up lessons but if she is notified, she will open that lesson to the first person to e-mail her. She figures it's paid for. So, if you miss a lesson, you do have a chance of making it up or even get an extra lesson for free. We also missed lessons due to snow this winter and some of those were made up. But I was told that isn't always the case. It's just this winter we had lots of snow days.:) She also does a group class about once a month and that takes the place of a regular lesson. The amount we pay is the same per month and I do know that she has missed a couple of times because professional workshops. If you have a teacher that is in demand, they can afford to have stricter studio policies because they know they can fill the slot. My dd likes this teacher, progress is being made and her prices aren't excessive for this area. If you plan on leaving, my advice would be to make sure you have another teacher lined up.

 

Thanks... I don't have too much problem with the "no make-ups" policy, but paying for 4 lessons a month when we only get 3 harder to get through my head.

[Cindyz]

Our piano teacher has started to do this as well. Originally we started with one private lesson per week on Wednesday. Then suddenly it was changed to 3 private lessons per month and one week was group class and it was on a Saturday morning for 2 hours. We live 45 minutes away so it's not like we can drop him off and then come back to get him so basically that's FOUR HOURS out of our day on a Saturday for a group class instead of private instruction.

 

In addition, I work a lot on Saturday mornings and this just didn't fit with our schedule...not to mention I did not want to spend the extra time sitting on our Saturday for a group class that I feel is of little benefit. I honestly don't feel that they are learning much during these group classes and my son has sensory issues that make larger groups difficult for him so all in all, this change greatly upset me.

 

I told her that we could not make it to Saturday classes instead of our usual Wednesday and she accommodated us by allowing us to come on a Monday at a different time instead to make up the group lesson, but honestly this isn't working for us either because I just want to keep going on Wednesdays like we had been! On top of this, I disagree with some of her personal philosophies that she freely teaches to the children.

 

I'm on the verge of finding a new piano instructor but I'm not prepared to quit until we have found someone else (closer to our area!) to teach my son piano. She's very patient with him and he has not been the easiest student to work with so I worry about finding someone who will work as well with my son as she does.

 

But I agree that paying the same amount for a group class instead of private instruction is just a way for her to make the same amount of money and do less work and is offering less service to our children and I don't agree with it.

[Jenny in GA]

Thanks... I don't have too much problem with the "no make-ups" policy, but paying for 4 lessons a month when we only get 3 harder to get through my head.

 

 

But you're not paying "per lesson." You're paying to enroll in the studio for a session. If you divide the session by however many months, that's how much the monthly payment is.

 

As a private music teacher, I am not charging you "per lesson." I'm charging you to be a student in the studio ... for me to research and buy music for your child, to plan recitals, type up programs, secure a venue, write lesson plans, etc, etc. That's all part of the package.

 

When you take a college course, do you ask a refund for the week of spring break (or whatever)?

 

Jenny

[Jenny in GA]

 

But I agree that paying the same amount for a group class instead of private instruction is just a way for her to make the same amount of money and do less work and is offering less service to our children and I don't agree with it.

 

 

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but this makes me bristle.

 

Generally speaking, the reason music teacher offer group lessons is because it offers the student a more rounded music education. It is hard to learn music well in a vacuum. At group lessons, they hear new repertoire, learn from critiquing others, and have a chance to play in public. They get to play theory games that don't really work with one child, they get a more energetic lesson, with a different type of motivation than just what private lesson afford, and they often get lessons on composers and musical styles that just don't fit into the private lesson time.

 

Certainly if this is not the set-up a person wants, they're free to shop elsewhere. But the idea that we are doing it just because we're lazy is somewhat insulting, and certainly untrue.

 

Jenny

[rieshy]

My younger children take private lessons with a small one-woman piano studio and my oldest dd takes private lessons at a university pre-college program. In both cases if you miss a lesson due to a student issues the teacher/professor is not obligated to provide a make up lesson.

 

However, neither charges year round for "vacations". Instead at the university we pay for a certain number of private lessons each semester with my dd's professor.

 

We pay a monthly flat rate for the private studio teacher. She pro-rates the amount for months when she plans time off or provides limited make up lessons instead. She also allows families to schedule (at the beginning of the year) for family vacations which she also pro-rates.

 

I would not have a problem with either of our music programs raising their rates. I would have a huge problem with them down-grading our lessons from private to group while charging the same amount. -Especially if they have demonstrated inflexibility with missed lessons in combo with charging for their vacation times.

[Matryoshka]

My piano teacher in CA did a "recital class" once a month in lieu of a lesson. But, she only charged 1/2 price that week. If we missed a lesson and it was our fault, we paid. If she had something come up and had to cancel a lesson, we either didn't pay for that lesson or we had a make-up lesson. This I thought was reasonable.

 

 

This is pretty much the way our school works - group class week is a lower price than the private lesson weeks; if we miss a lesson due to our fault we can negotiate making it up but it's not a guarantee, if she cancels a lesson she makes it up, and if she's on vacation we don't pay at all.

[bookfiend]

I think this is hard to swallow because the terms are changing mid-relationship. You formerly received four private lessons for an agreed fee and now are being asked to accept a reduced level of instruction for the same money. While it is within her right to restructure the studio, it is not a one-way negotiation. Are you able to decline the group lesson and only pay for the weeks she offers private instruction? Are you comfortable asking to pay 1/2 price for the week your child receives group instruction? (Honestly, she's making $500 for that one hour!) IMO, she has essentially started a new negotiation, I would continue the discussion before deciding to look elsewhere.

[Cindyz]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but this makes me bristle.

 

Generally speaking, the reason music teacher offer group lessons is because it offers the student a more rounded music education. It is hard to learn music well in a vacuum. At group lessons, they hear new repertoire, learn from critiquing others, and have a chance to play in public. They get to play theory games that don't really work with one child, they get a more energetic lesson, with a different type of motivation than just what private lesson afford, and they often get lessons on composers and musical styles that just don't fit into the private lesson time.

 

Certainly if this is not the set-up a person wants, they're free to shop elsewhere. But the idea that we are doing it just because we're lazy is somewhat insulting, and certainly untrue.

 

Jenny

 

I would tend to agree, however our group lessons consist mostly of memorizing bible verses along with handclapping and sign language routines (we are a secular home schooling family) and teaching them self control by having them see who can sit still the longest during morality lessons and some various movement activities like relay races that I don't really understand (learning to follow instructions?). She's GREAT in personal lessons (great to me because she is patient with my sometimes difficult child), but the group classes have little to no value for us.

 

Your idea of how they should be run sounds wonderful to me! :D

Edited May 18, 2010 by Cindyz

[myfunnybunch]

I would decline the group lessons/workshops unless she can make a compelling case for the value of learning piano in that group setting as a replacement for an individual lesson. There are valuable lessons to be learned in a group setting, so it depends on whether you and the teacher think that this kind of lesson can provide a comparable benefit for your child. She might be willing to compromise if you feel strongly about your child not participating.

 

But, personally, I think I would balk at paying for the teacher's vacation time and would probably look for a different teacher/studio. She is running her own business (correct?). I wouldn't expect to pay a private service provider for vacation time because I am a client, not an employer. That's just me, though. It just doesn't seem reasonable. I do think it's worth a discussion with her to let her know how you feel about it, especially if she's a good match for your child.

 

Our teacher charges by the term, so that we pay for the weeks her studio is in session, and not for the weeks it's not. She takes off 2 weeks in winter, 2 weeks for spring, and is in session for the month of July in the summer. If she misses a lesson, she makes it up; if we miss, she might make it up or not depending on her availability and how much notice we give, but her written policy states that if we miss she does not make up the lesson. That's all fairly typical around here.

 

Cat

[Christy B]

But you're not paying "per lesson." You're paying to enroll in the studio for a session. If you divide the session by however many months, that's how much the monthly payment is.

 

As a private music teacher, I am not charging you "per lesson." I'm charging you to be a student in the studio ... for me to research and buy music for your child, to plan recitals, type up programs, secure a venue, write lesson plans, etc, etc. That's all part of the package.

 

When you take a college course, do you ask a refund for the week of spring break (or whatever)?

 

Jenny

 

Exactly. You are paying for music education (and it sounds like quality instruction, from what you've described). Group lessons such what is being offered are invaluable in preparing a student for serious music education. If your child has any potential or thought whatsoever to studying music at the college level, he or she will be woefully unprepared without group study.

 

I put in many hours of work for each student beyond their private lesson. In addition to the recital and other planning Jenny mentioned, I spend COUNTLESS hours in e-mail and phone correspondence with parents (much of it, sadly, in simply trying to reschedule lessons missed for any number of reasons . . . as in, "We thought we would take this week off to bake a cake and smell the sunshine, and just make up the lesson next week, SINCE THAT'S YOUR WEEK OFF . . . ")

 

There's also the constant piano tuning, the repairs to the pedal that is broken repeatedly by clumsy little feet, the carpet spray to remove the mud tracked into my house, the toilet paper, hand soap, tissues, and hand sanitizer because EVERYONE has to tinkle, and during cold season they have to blow or wipe their runny noses.

 

All of this to say, I don't find the teacher's policy unreasonable. However, if it's just too much for your budget, or if you are just really uncomfortable with the structure of the studio, I'm sure you could find a teacher who did more traditional weekly private lessons. There's nothing wrong with deciding you need to make a change to find what works best for your family.

[snickelfritz]

But you're not paying "per lesson." You're paying to enroll in the studio for a session. If you divide the session by however many months, that's how much the monthly payment is.

 

I think there is a misunderstanding.....at least based on how I understand it.

 

Maybe allearia can clarify, but the way I understand it.........

 

When she started, they got 4 individual lessons a month. The teacher now substitutes a group lesson for one of the individual lesson. Even if there are NO absences....there is still one week where they do not get an individual lesson. So the OP is paying for 3 individual lessons and 1 group lesson a month for the SAME amount of money that she originally paid for 4 individual lessons.

 

If they miss an individual lesson, they have the option of taking another group lesson that month. This part I think is fair. On top of the new paid vacation policy (that part doesn't really throw me either), on top of substituting a group lesson for one of the individual lessons at the SAME price...... I think the OP is getting fed up. The straw and camel and all of that. And I don't blame her. She's paying a premium for someone who is gradually whittling away the number of individual lessons that are being given.

 

Generally speaking, the reason music teacher offer group lessons is because it offers the student a more rounded music education.

I totally agree. We do Suzuki lessons, where we get an individual lesson AND a group lesson every week. Now, we do violin, so the kiddos play together and get that experience of not being an individual player only. BUT, they are absolutely FEARLESS playing in front of people because they do it every week. They also do fun group games and get to spend fun time with other kids playing the same instrument. I think it's highly valuable, but I don't think it's reasonable for the teacher to expect them to "substitute" a group lesson for an individual lesson at an even price trade.

Edited May 19, 2010 by snickelfritz

[phathui5]

I would NOT pay her for times that she is on vacation. We're not talking about childcare here. When I did tutoring, I didn't charge families for times that I wasn't available.

[Allearia]

Exactly. You are paying for music education (and it sounds like quality instruction, from what you've described). Group lessons such what is being offered are invaluable in preparing a student for serious music education. If your child has any potential or thought whatsoever to studying music at the college level, he or she will be woefully unprepared without group study.

 

I put in many hours of work for each student beyond their private lesson. In addition to the recital and other planning Jenny mentioned, I spend COUNTLESS hours in e-mail and phone correspondence with parents (much of it, sadly, in simply trying to reschedule lessons missed for any number of reasons . . . as in, "We thought we would take this week off to bake a cake and smell the sunshine, and just make up the lesson next week, SINCE THAT'S YOUR WEEK OFF . . . ")

 

There's also the constant piano tuning, the repairs to the pedal that is broken repeatedly by clumsy little feet, the carpet spray to remove the mud tracked into my house, the toilet paper, hand soap, tissues, and hand sanitizer because EVERYONE has to tinkle, and during cold season they have to blow or wipe their runny noses.

 

All of this to say, I don't find the teacher's policy unreasonable. However, if it's just too much for your budget, or if you are just really uncomfortable with the structure of the studio, I'm sure you could find a teacher who did more traditional weekly private lessons. There's nothing wrong with deciding you need to make a change to find what works best for your family.

 

I really appreciate this, and this is why I wanted to post on this board. I have no experience in piano, did band in high school but never any rigorous music education. He has gone to the group lesson three times so far and enjoyed it, twice he played for others and that was motivating. He is the youngest, the others who go to the group session are from 10-17 years old, but she said she thought he would greatly benefit. So if this group is something that is going to grow in value as he gets older I might have a different take on the value of that hour.

 

And again I really understand about rescheduling lessons... we have very rarely rescheduled and usually she has been the one to suggest a make up lesson at another time. I will have to see if she is open to rescheduling while he is at summer camp and we are away on vacation this summer. I know there are some families who expect to reschedule all the time and I wouldn't want to put up with that either.

 

She has been a wonderful teacher, great with kids but also with high expectations, and my son has made a lot of progress and plays wonderfully so I don't want to just jump to another instructor without a lot of thought.

[Allearia]

I think there is a misunderstanding.....at least based on how I understand it.

 

Maybe allearia can clarify, but the way I understand it.........

 

When she started, they got 4 individual lessons a month. The teacher now substitutes a group lesson for one of the individual lesson. Even if there are NO absences....there is still one week where they do not get an individual lesson. So the OP is paying for 3 individual lessons and 1 group lesson a month for the SAME amount of money that she originally paid for 4 individual lessons.

 

If they miss an individual lesson, they have the option of taking another group lesson that month. This part I think is fair. On top of the new paid vacation policy (that part doesn't really throw me either), on top of substituting a group lesson for one of the individual lessons at the SAME price...... I think the OP is getting fed up. The straw and camel and all of that. And I don't blame her. She's paying a premium for someone who is gradually whittling away the number of individual lessons that are being given.

 

Yes, it is just less lessons for the money we were paying. Also, there are only two make-up sessons a year, so if you miss more than two lessons you are out of luck. When we started, we paid for a private lesson a week, didn't pay if we missed a lesson (which rarely happened, usually got made up), didn't pay for vacation or holidays.