Rosemary Sutcliff?

[IsabelC]

Is anyone familiar with her books?

 

I have seen Black Ships before Troy suggested a few times. I borrowed it and found it was to difficult for my kids even as a read aloud. I'm wondering, are all her books written at a similar level? Or if not, which would be good to start with?

[Amber in AUS]

We have Wonderings of Odysseus which my DD has read independently and enjoyed this year. I have not read it so can't comment how difficult it is and don't have any of her other books to compare.

 

A friend has many of her books and recommends them all the time but her oldest is 10 and youngest 6.

[Karenciavo]

I would say most of her books are at a higher level.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I'd agree they're tough....and wonderful ;)

[Orthodox6]

Sutclif's books already have vanished from chain bookstores. (Borders, B&N) An unforgivable loss for children and teens. Hunt down her books on Roman Britain from whatever used-book suppliers you can find, and buy them !

[crimsonkelley]

We like her books, but just started using them this year. (My daughter is in 5th and my son is in 2nd.) Some of them I have assigned to my daugther - others I have read aloud. Our library has most of them. :)

[Robyn]

My 5th grader just finished Eagle of the Ninth and The Silver Branch. He has really enjoyed them. I would say these are more difficult than Black Ships before Troy, which was the first book of hers that we read. I believe most curriculum using her books schedule them in the middle school years.

[mcconnellboys]

Yes, I think all her books are better for logic stage or high school. We have read many of her books and own some of them. Here's a complete list of all her work:

 

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/s/rosemary-sutcliff/

 

They're making Eagle of the Ninth into a movie!

[swimmermom3]

We are huge Rosemary Sutcliff fans; however, I think the lowest end for readership is probably 5th grade. We have yet to meet a book of hers we didn't like. Occasionally, I may prefer to substitute a different author for a particular subject but overall, they are mostly well-written, well-researched and engaging. We own 19 of her titles and are on the hunt for 3 more.

 

Oddly enough, we don't own her Arthur trilogy as I prefer her adult version of Arthur as a Celtic chieftain, but most really enjoy the trilogy.

[IsabelC]

Okaaay... I must have misinterpreted somewhere along the line, because I was under the impression that most kids read them in first grade. Since I am lucky enough to have a few of them available in our library, I might come back to her on our second history go around, when ds will be 11 and dd 9.

 

Yes, that is a pity that they are not more widely sold. I really liked what I read of BSBT, only problem was it was too complex and detailed to engage the kids at this point.

[Aludlam]

Not to hijack ... too much, but does anyone else have any favorites that they would like to share?

 

 

Angela

[Karenciavo]

Black Ships and Wanderings, but it's the Alan Lee illustrations that we love. The text is good though, it was enjoyable. Although, if memory serves me correctly, and sometimes it doesn't, I think we like The Children's Homer by Padraic Colum more.

[Liza Q]

Not to hijack ... too much, but does anyone else have any favorites that they would like to share?

 

 

Angela

 

I have read several and my favorites are The Mark of the Horse Lord and The Lantern Bearers. And I would say that both are better for older kids - at least 15-16. My 19yo thinks that the Lantern Bearers is the best!

[Lovedtodeath]

Is anyone familiar with her books?

 

I have seen Black Ships before Troy suggested a few times. I borrowed it and found it was to difficult for my kids even as a read aloud. I'm wondering, are all her books written at a similar level? Or if not, which would be good to start with?

I found BSBT too much for us. Are you needing suggestions for the Iliad and Odyssey that are more on level for your kids?

[Orthodox6]

I found BSBT too much for us. Are you needing suggestions for the Iliad and Odyssey that are more on level for your kids?

 

 

We could not abide the illustrations in BSBT !

[Lovedtodeath]

 

We could not abide the illustrations in BSBT !

Even without illustrations, the violence and morbidity were not something that I wanted to expose DD to at such a young age.:glare:

[Orthodox6]

Even without illustrations, the violence and morbidity were not something that I wanted to expose DD to at such a young age.:glare:

 

LOL, in a sense. We were so put off by the illustrations, we never even read the text of this version. The sad thing was that this book was a gift to our oldest boys from Greek relatives who came to the U.S. on a visit. (So we had to keep it.)

[In The Great White North]

I think the lowest end for readership is probably 5th grade.

 

:iagree: I might even put the lowest age higher. There was a lot of violence in the eras of her books - plenty of nightmare potential. Most are OK for middle school but a few would be R rated if they were movies.

 

My first Sutcliff book was Warrior Scarlett, in 8th grade, which I loved. I haven't seen it since.

[jplain]

I found BSBT too much for us. Are you needing suggestions for the Iliad and Odyssey that are more on level for your kids?

I'd love to get Iliad/Odyssey suggestions for a 7 year old. She's not terribly sensitive, but I am, lol. There could be a 4.5 year old listening in at times too.

 

Edited to add: Carmen, I see Lupton's Odysseus and Little's Trojan War in your Amazon link. Would those be your suggestions for younger kids? I think I already have Little. And I was just flipping through Lupton at the library; what a gorgeous book!

Edited May 20, 2010 by jplain

[Lovedtodeath]

Edited to add: Yep, pretty much. :)

 

What I did was use The Trojan Horse: How the Greeks Won the War and then I filled in some of the stories that I found important from the Odyssey using selections from Tales of Troy: Ulysses the Sacker of Cities by Andrew Lang. There are still a few things in this retelling that I found better to skip but it is much more friendly than Sutcliffs. Sorry about the underline. I can't get it to go away! Anyway I adapted these: The Ancient Greece of Odysseus, Seeking a Bride, Achilles, Odysseus (which includes the luck of Troy). and they are in a free e-book here. I used The Trojan Horse as our main book because it has pictures and DD was able to read it by herself. You may find that you can just read Tales of Troy to your students.

 

For the Odyssey I used The Adventures of Odysseus. It has pictures and is more tame than the book we started out with by Geraldine McGaughrean.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[jplain]

Thanks Carmen! :001_smile:

[Matryoshka]

For the Odyssey I used The Adventures of Odysseus. It has pictures and is more tame than the book we started out with by Geraldine McGaughrean.

 

Do you think the McCaughrean would be okay for a 9 1/2 or 10yo (well, she'll probably be 10 by the time we get to Greece). The other books you listed seem young for her, but I'm guessing she's not ready for the Sutcliff, which I'm planning to use with my 12yos.

 

She is not a voracious reader, so I'm not looking for something overly long and detailed (or gory), but she can read quite well, so I'd like to move her on from graded readers and picture books, if ykwim. Would the McCaughrean be at around the right level for that?

 

She'd probably love the Barefoot Books version though...

 

Wow, is there nothing at either of those levels for the Iliad? All I can find is picture books or graded readers on the Trojan horse, and not much on the rest of the story...

[Lovedtodeath]

Do you think the McCaughrean would be okay for a 9 1/2 or 10yo (well, she'll probably be 10 by the time we get to Greece). The other books you listed seem young for her, but I'm guessing she's not ready for the Sutcliff, which I'm planning to use with my 12yos.

yes, it would be fine. The main thing I remember that would bother my DD is the scene with the sirens. Odysseus sees them as vultures with human faces sitting on top of piles of rotting corpses. It describes that scene too vividly IYKWIM. I enjoyed the Emily Little book because it really got through to me about where the kings came from and the geography of Troy. I wouldn't skip it, I would just add to it.

 

I am sure that you can find a resource on the Iliad for her to read... there are many that are in the public domain and many recommended here, but I am not in a position to recommend any beyond the one as I didn't go looking for that age group.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[HeidiKC]

I was just looking at her books yesterday and checking the reading levels. The 8 or so I looked at all seemed to be about 6.3-6.9 Reading Level, most closer to the higher end. So I'd guess, yes - they are all at about the same level.

[HeidiKC]

:There was a lot of violence in the eras of her books - plenty of nightmare potential. Most are OK for middle school but a few would be R rated if they were movies..

 

HA! I'll have to tell my son this - this will definitely convince him to read the books! Hey - if he can't go see a rated R movie, the next best thing will be reading the book with lots of fighting.

[swimmermom3]

:iagree: I might even put the lowest age higher. There was a lot of violence in the eras of her books - plenty of nightmare potential. Most are OK for middle school but a few would be R rated if they were movies.

 

My first Sutcliff book was Warrior Scarlett, in 8th grade, which I loved. I haven't seen it since.

 

I would tend to disagree on an R rating for her young adult work. Yes, she depicts the era, but she never glorifies violence and handles the topic well. The Lord of the Rings movies contain numerous scenes of violence and are rated PG13.

 

I fail to see the point in presenting a work before its time by using a highly sanitized version to the point of the work only being just recognizable. Why not just use Aesop and other similar works for the first pass through history. The Iliad is about war. Period. Cover it on the second and third passes through history.

[Orthodox6]

:iagree: I might even put the lowest age higher. There was a lot of violence in the eras of her books - plenty of nightmare potential. Most are OK for middle school but a few would be R rated if they were movies.

 

My first Sutcliff book was Warrior Scarlett, in 8th grade, which I loved. I haven't seen it since.

 

:confused: Are you thinking of her Arthurian books, none of which I have read ? There is no way that this extremely conservative and traditionalist mom would consider her books set in Roman Britain as "R" texts ! (I don't even trust a "G" rating anymore without investigating a film, which reveals how picky I am.)

[Matryoshka]

I am sure that you can find a resource on the Iliad for her to read... there are many that are in the public domain and many recommended here, but I am not in a position to recommend any beyond the one as I didn't go looking for that age group.

 

So I'm looking! Has anyone read/used the book A Fair Wind for Troy by Doris Gates, and if so would it be good for a 10yo? Amazon doesn't have a look-inside, and the description and one review aren't all that illuminating.

[Liza Q]

Do you think the McCaughrean would be okay for a 9 1/2 or 10yo (well, she'll probably be 10 by the time we get to Greece). The other books you listed seem young for her, but I'm guessing she's not ready for the Sutcliff, which I'm planning to use with my 12yos.

 

She is not a voracious reader, so I'm not looking for something overly long and detailed (or gory), but she can read quite well, so I'd like to move her on from graded readers and picture books, if ykwim. Would the McCaughrean be at around the right level for that?

 

She'd probably love the Barefoot Books version though...

 

Wow, is there nothing at either of those levels for the Iliad? All I can find is picture books or graded readers on the Trojan horse, and not much on the rest of the story...

 

Take a look at the versions by Roger Green and Olivia Coolidge - let me see if I can find a link or two.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Tale-Troy-Ancient-Authors-Classics/dp/0140367454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274374657&sr=8-1

 

http://www.amazon.com/Trojan-War-Olivia-E-Coolidge/dp/0618154280/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1274374696&sr=1-1-fkmr0

[swimmermom3]

Take a look at the versions by Roger Green and Olivia Coolidge - let me see if I can find a link or two.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Tale-Troy-Ancient-Authors-Classics/dp/0140367454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274374657&sr=8-1

 

http://www.amazon.com/Trojan-War-Olivia-E-Coolidge/dp/0618154280/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1274374696&sr=1-1-fkmr0

 

I used The Trojan War by Coolidge for my then 11-yo. Our family loves this book. Even though we have Black Ships Before Troy and think Sutcliff is a wonderful author, we prefer this version of The Iliad. The myths that are separate and that go before and after The Iliad are presented here in one continuous story format but divided by sections. The retelling is lively and enjoyable.

 

Matroyshka, borrow it from the library and read it over the summer and see what you think.

[Matryoshka]

I used The Trojan War by Coolidge for my then 11-yo. Our family loves this book. Even though we have Black Ships Before Troy and think Sutcliff is a wonderful author, we prefer this version of The Iliad. The myths that are separate and that go before and after The Iliad are presented here in one continuous story format but divided by sections. The retelling is lively and enjoyable.

 

So, Lisa, is the Coolidge what you used with the LLfLOTR Epic unit ('cause it seemed such a good idea now I want to copy you and do that too :tongue_smilie:)?

 

Part of my dilemma here is that if I did the Epic unit with my 12yos, I'd want them to read it the book themselves, yes? Then I'd want something else my younger dd could read to herself, rather than as a read-aloud? The Coolidge looks even longer than the Sutcliff!

 

Or could/should I do it as a read-aloud for all three kids?

 

Did you follow up the Coolidge with the Sutcliff version of the Odyssey, or something else?

[swimmermom3]

So, Lisa, is the Coolidge what you used with the LLfLOTR Epic unit ('cause it seemed such a good idea now I want to copy you and do that too :tongue_smilie:)?

 

Part of my dilemma here is that if I did the Epic unit with my 12yos, I'd want them to read it the book themselves, yes? Then I'd want something else my younger dd could read to herself, rather than as a read-aloud? The Coolidge looks even longer than the Sutcliff!

 

Or could/should I do it as a read-aloud for all three kids?

 

Did you follow up the Coolidge with the Sutcliff version of the Odyssey, or something else?

 

I did use Coolidge followed by Sutcliff for the Epic unit in LLofLOTR. We also used Penelope Lively's In Search of a Homeland for The Aeneid. I would not use that book again.

 

I am a huge fan of Sutcliff's but I think there are better retellings for both epics. For The Iliad we also read Alfred Church's version and for The Odyssey we read some of Padraic Column for comparison and contrast. That was overkill but we enjoyed it.

 

Again, read the Coolidge book over the summer and decide if your younger one would be comfortable with it. If so, it makes a great read aloud.

 

The longer I play with LLofLOTR and using the Epic unit at the end of ancients and as a transition into the medieval period, the more excited I become. I hope it all lives up to my expectations.:tongue_smilie: