Help me teach my 4yr old to stop some rude behaviors

[lincap]

I need help. My 4 yr old has bad manners. My two year old has better manners than my 4 yr old. I need strategies, suggestions, phrases to say to the following situations.

 

1. Interrupting.

DH and I will be talking "Hi how was your day" "this and that.... " "Can you grab the ketchup" " what's for supper" (short conversations only, we have long conversations when the kids are playing, asleep or in the car) and my 4 yr old just starts "Dad blah blah blah..." so I explained to say excuse me and wait. He understands "excuse me" but does not wait. He will just yell excuse me louder and louder and louder. If I address him and say "Charlie, I know you want to say something, please wait for mom and dad to finish" he just talks right over me. 4 yr old just says what he wants when he wants.. and if I or someone else asks him to wait, he gets louder, stomps, screams, yells, hits himself in the face etc.

 

This invokes rage in me. Seriously. I cannot stand it anymore. I cannot speak to a cashier "Hi how are you" "oh cute boys, how old are they?" or "what is your zip code"... and he starts "mom mom blah balh" "hold on Charlie" " NO I can't I need to say.." in a loud yell. He talks over EVERYONE.

 

2. Church.

Our services are not long, children leave after about 15 min. My 2 year old sits, stands, even claps when songs are finished,and is quiet. He will look at a book or just sit and listen. My 4 yr old is a terror. Begging me or DH to read him a book, then it turns into him demanding a book be read NOW (the yell loud, scream, hitting himself, crying) he says "I JUST WANT YOU TO READ ME THIS BOOK NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!" and he jumps all over the pew. We have explained every time before going into church that he must sit quiet and still. He may look at a book but mom and dad are not reading to him. We are in God's house and are listening to the Rev. UGH.. nothing is working. We stopped going to service but I want to go again. Any ideas? It is only about 15 min, then the kids go downstairs for Sunday School. This invokes rage in DH. He does not understand why Charlie cannot be quiet for 15 min in church.

 

Help. Rage I tell you rage. Charlie has our full attention all the time, we make plenty of time for him, to let him talk, etc.

 

3. Being Bossy.

He is 4 and he bosses everyone around. If someone (anyone) does something in a way different from what he wanted or was thinking of.. yelling, screaming fits. Example homeschool group. He asks another mom to cut him out a heart shape for him to color. She does. He FREAKS OUT because it is too small/big/skinny/fat/wrong paper/not what he wanted. His fits are getting out of control. If someone doesn't sit at morning songs where he wants them to sit he has a fit.

 

4. On the phone.

I cannot make a phone call. The entire time I am on the phone he has to talk nonstop. Then yell, then scream then fit. I explain "mommy is going to call grammy, I need you to play and I will talk to you in a few minutes when I am done with Grammy". That doesn't help. I never answer my phone because I don't have enough time to explain that he needs to be quiet. ugh.

 

I am at my wits end. I am really feeling an angry rage over this. I feel so horrible about my reaction. Any ideas? words of wisdom? Suggestions?

I am feeling desparate here. How do I teach him to wait a minute or two quietly?

 

I yelled back so loudly at him a few minutes ago that my throat is sore. I was trying to talk to my mom on the phone to hear how my Grammy is (sick) and cooridinate a visit... sigh..

[Jean in Newcastle]

I hope someone else has some advice. This doesn't seem developmentally normal even for a 4 year old.

[hillfarm]

I don't know if it would help, but what we used to do when dd was younger was lots of role playing to practice the correct behaviors. I would have her play the Mommy role and I would hold one of her slightly less beloved stuffed animals and the animal would then misbehave and she would have to correct it(to make sure she understood the rule and why her behavior was not acceptable). Then we would try it again with her showing me the wrong way to behave (again identifying and "owning" the wrong behavior) and then go over it a couple of times the right way (to see how the right one feels). Occasionally we would perform the right way for dh to once again reinforce the behavior. I know it sounds goofy, but it did really seem to help.

 

Of course, we only did this at home, when she was well rested and able to focus. Occasionally, I would remind her of our role playing right before we went into a situation and that seemed to also help.

[rose_king]

I understand. My dd is now 12, but was very like Charlie. Impatient, hyper, it's all about me....We just suffered through it honestly. I don't think she was as bad as your saying, still, very difficult to have a child like this. I tried logic, ignoring her, time out, even spanking. (No mean comments, please:D) She can still be very stubborn and hot tempered. We are still working on anger, patience, and bossiness. It is much better now. Not always great, but much better. I am interested in what others have to say. I don't have any answers, but I know how lonely it can be. Best of luck and lots of prayers to you. :grouphug:

[Chris in VA]

I'm rather embarrassed to admit this, but in all honesty, I'd probably spank for these behaviors.

[SonshineLearner]

The role playing is a great idea! I've done that, too. You can make the child... over and over (say maybe 10 times) practice, each time there's a problem. Also, if you can just leave... and come back for your stuff later at the store... (take out any treats in front of them... then leave)

You can tell them that it's disobedience when they continue to whatever... (interrupt, scream etc.) Then, give them the warning "this is your warning, that's disobedience". Whatever your family uses for disobedience.... do it. (Time out, bed time early, no treats... tv... whatever.)

OR, like me... when your little buddy is being bad.... with all the patience that you can muster... you put them in time-out with you at the counter (while trying to pay).. you accidentally step on their hand... (as they're not being cooperative down there....) they run away and won't come back....

You drive home all the way (.5 of a mile) just ticked... with your 11 year old telling you that her poor little brother.... has been in trouble too much today... already!.

Whew.... I need to take more pics of him asleep!!

[SapphireStitch]

I'm rather embarrassed to admit this, but in all honesty, I'd probably spank for these behaviors.

 

:iagree: Except I'm not really embarrassed.

 

From your description it sounds as though he is being deliberately defiant and disobeying. If he needs to be taught how to behave properly, then I would do the role-playing thing. But if he *knows* and is refusing to do it, then you need to hold him accountable.

 

If spanking is not an option in your home, do you have another strategy for holding him accountable? I think there are some children who are tender-hearted and of a reasoning sort of mindset from an early age who can be dealt with by explaining what they should do and why what they are doing is wrong. Most other children need to have some sort of reinforcement, something on their level that catches their attention and gets through to them "This caused me pain/disappointment/inconvenience and I must avoid triggering that again."

[Dandelion]

My DS (now 6.5) had some of the same issues you're describing when he was 4 - so, you're not alone and there is hope (although I know all too well that it can feel like you're the only parent dealing with this type of behavior at times!!). :grouphug:

 

1. Interrupting.

What worked for us with DS at that age was to tell him that when he wanted to say something (while we were talking to someone else) he should put his hand on mommy or daddy's arm and just wait quietly. That was our signal that he wanted to talk when we were done. When he put his hand on my arm, I would put my hand on his hand (so he knew he had been acknowledged - and the physical contact seemed to calm him down) and then I would immediately turn to him when I was done talking, thank him for waiting, and then he would have his turn.

 

Yes, it's nicer if they can just wait without having to do the "hand on the arm" routine - but it sure beats being interrupted. This worked for us, and now he's pretty much learned to wait his turn to speak (without any special "helps"). He's still impulsive (that's just his temperament) so he does still interrupt sometimes, but it's about 90% improved over where it was.

 

Also, be sure to make a BIG DEAL out of it when he does wait his turn and is able to control himself (just lots of verbal recognition).

 

2. Church.

Some kids just have a hard time sitting still in church. I know. My DS had a difficult time with this at that age too (while my 2yo DD is completely different and has absolutely no problem sitting still and keeping herself busy).

 

Can you drop Charlie off early (does he have to be in church for those first 15 min.)?

 

If not, can you and DH take turns waiting with him in the church lobby until he can be dropped off?

 

Or how about getting a special (highly fascinating but QUIET) toy that only comes out on Sundays for those first 15 min. in church? Is there something that you think would hold his attention for 15 min.?

 

3. Being Bossy.

Can you put him "in charge" of something in these situations? I know it seems counter-intuitive to put a bossy child in charge, but this worked with DS sometimes (he's not super-bossy, but I have had to deal with this from time to time).

 

For example, when you go to homeschool group and you're doing crafts, can you put him in charge of something innocuous like making sure everyone has enough supplies (or just something that will keep him busy, but not put him at odds with anyone - they'll just see him as being helpful)? That way, he's got something to focus on, he'll feel more in control, and he may be less likely to get stressed about other things that aren't going his way.

 

When DS was younger, I often put him in charge of "safety" when we were at the park, because this was a great way to ensure that he would be safe and not do anything that would make others unsafe. It helps to give your child some phrases they can use to go with that though - so that they don't end up bossing people around again.

 

4. On the phone.

I would implement the same rule here (put your hand on my arm if you need attention or want to say something) as mentioned above under "Interrupting".

 

Age 4 was probably the toughest age so far for DS. He never went through the "terrible twos" (he was as sweet and easy as could be at that age), but age 4 was extremely difficult. With lots of love, focusing on the positive (LOTS of praise when he gets things right!), time and maturity things will get likely get better.

 

HTH and hang in there! :)

[lincap]

Thank you all! Nursing little one now so quick reply.. I am going to try the arm tap and role play tomorrow!!!!!

[Teachin'Mine]

My question would be to think back to when he first started to have temper tantrums. What was your response? Did he eventually get what he wanted? If he did, then he learned that tantrums work and it just takes time, the louder the better. If this is the case, then you need to make it clear that from now on, temper tantrums will no longer work. Have a plan in mind - time out, that sort of thing ahead of time. You can even set up for your husband to call you during the day. He doesn't even have to stay on the phone, but you can pretend to be having a conversation knowing that your son will interrupt. Put the time out into practice, or whatever you've planned, but in no way give into whatever he demands. It should be easier to deal with because you're expecting his response, and you're not really involved in an important conversation.

 

Have you seen Super Nanny? I'm thinking something along those lines of the "naughty chair" or whatever. If it isn't the case that having a tantrum gets him what he wants, then you may want to consider having him evaluated. His behaviors sound really extreme. I'm sorry you're going through this.

 

ETA: Advice from moms of boys probably counts for more. They're so different from girls! So take what I've said with a grain of salt, this may be more common and "normal" for boys.:)

Edited May 4, 2010 by Teachin'Mine

[Hockey Mom]

My DS7 was very similar to what you've described. :grouphug: I think the fact that you have three very young children (an infant too, no less), that you may be overwhelmed in addition to dealing with a preschooler who is demanding. My heart goes out to you.

 

That said, here's what we tried:

 

1. Redirection. When Daddy is getting ready to come home, redirect Charlie to do something fun that he normally doesn't get to do. If he enjoys cutting up magazines, or playing with cars, or playing computer games...whatever seems to be enjoyable to him, set aside a time frame where he gets to do that every day. But he ONLY gets to do those things in that particular block of time. I made a box that was for my DS. I put a package of new matchbox cars, old magazines, glue, scissors, markers (he was really impressed with markers over crayons), scrap paper, and a special treat (fruit bars, a couple of cookies, etc.).

 

2. Reward chart. I made my own, but there are tons of behavior charts online that you can print out. I let my DS put his own stars on the chart. I rewarded every. positive. thing. he did throughout the day. If he waited patiently for me while I changed his brother, he got to put a star on his chart. If I was able to finish a phone conversation without interruption, he put a star on his chart. If he played quietly for 15 minutes, he was rewarded. It is tedious and at times seems like overkill, but it worked for my DS.

 

3. Charlie Time! This goes along with the reward chart. Set a reasonable goal for him to achieve, then reward him with something special. For us, we used "Night out with Daddy". Daddy would take him to play mini golf, or ride go-karts for one hour a week (if he reached his star goal). DS7 LOVES his alone time with Daddy (and sometimes Mommy). My boys are a year apart, and any time I can spend one on one with him is a reward in his eyes.

 

4. Church. There's really only two options since a star chart will likely not work in this scenario. One is to have you or Dad hang outside with Charlie until it's time for Sunday school. The other is to bring along a bribe. Yes, I said it. A BRIBE. Whether that looks like M&Ms or watching a movie on your iPod. Something that you know will keep him occupied for a few minutes.

 

5. We changed our vocabulary. I used to use the word "naughty" when trying to correct my DS. What I learned (from his FABULOUS preK teacher) was to use "bad choice/good choice" instead. I know it sounds unlikely, but simply changing my vocabulary had an almost immediate positive result. It allowed ME to not see him as "bad" or "naughty" but rather to view it as a teaching tool for my DS. He wasn't naughty...he was making bad choices. And it allowed DS to see that HE wasn't 'naughty', his choices were the wrong ones.

 

In general, I'm not opposed to spanking. However, I think spanking a child like this won't change the behavior. It will breed fear from him, and resentment from you. I know...BTDT. And after a while, you'll see your 2y/o pick up these 'bad habits' and the cycle will begin again. Spanking has it's place, but when you are in the midst of this kind of behavior, you are allowing his behavior to dictate YOUR response. Don't play defense; play offense!

 

6. Enroll him in some sort of team sport. Team sports teach children so much, and four years old is a great age to get them active. We did "Learn to Skate Hockey" lessons. My SIL did soccer.

 

7. Treasure Box. I still use this. I bought a cheap, pre-filled one from Oriental Trading. If my boys stay on 'green' all week, they get to pick a treasure from my treasure box.

 

8. While we're on the subject of "green", I bought a behavior wall chart for our school room. I bought it from Oriental Trading. It looks like this one.

 

9. In the middle of a fit. If it happens in a public place, just remove him from the situation. Sit in your car with him while your Dh and the others have fun. I only had to do this twice before my DS realized that I meant business. Simply walk out with him. Don't talk to him or try to reason with him. Hum the entire score of The Music Man if you have to, but don't say a word to him until everyone is calm and quiet. I kept a book in my glove box for this purpose. He could have his fit away from everyone else, and I could read a book. I've also left a full cart of groceries because I had to remove my unruly child from the store. I did take it to customer service with my apologies. ;) The point is, if your DS understands that he will be removed from the scene because of his behavior, he will learn to think before he acts. Above all, do NOT let him see any kind of emotion from you.

 

Whew. So there's my two cents, FWIW. :lol: Hang in there. It WILL get better! Oh, one more thing...I only allowed my DS to watch Veggie Tales. My DS picks up everything, and words like "shut up" are not allowed in my house. Once I 'washed' his brain of bad choices/words, he stopped imitating it as well.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Hockey Mom

[ncmom2dawters]

Could there be something else going on with this child? Children with aspergers & autism usually do no pick up on social cues.

[AK_Mom4]

My high-maintenance oldest son started doing behaving like yours at 4yo when kid #3 was born. He was terribly jealous of the new baby and this was his way of expressing it. I notice you have an 8 week old - could something similiar be happening?

 

We used many of the techniques mentioned by other moms. But what helped ME the most was the institution of "Quiet Time". DS never napped, of course, but we had a mandatory 1 hour of play-quietly in your room - he could read or listen to tapes. But I got an hour of quiet time away from him and he had a chance to "settle himself" each day away from the baby and the 2yo. It really helped save my sanity during this rough time - I could make uninterrupted phone calls or do household chores.

 

ETA: I just remembered - what got us thru church was to get there a half hour EARLY and go thru the awkward transition behavior time BEFORE the service started. Having time to "get used" to church, talk to the people coming in, whatever seemed to really help. DS was always worst during transition time!

Edited May 4, 2010 by AK_Mom4

[Forget-Me-Not]

I don't claim to be an expert *at all* but I have to agree with some of the PPs who said this behavior is a little concerning in a 4 yr old and you might want to have him evaluated.

[Dandelion]

ETA: I just remembered - what got us thru church was to get there a half hour EARLY and go thru the awkward transition behavior time BEFORE the service started. Having time to "get used" to church, talk to the people coming in, whatever seemed to really help. DS was always worst during transition time!

 

That is such great advice! I had never even thought of doing that (in fact we were usually running late for church when DS was younger which probably made it worse :001_huh:). I can totally see that this would help and may start trying this with DS (not for church, but just in general) since he does still struggle with transitions at times. Thanks!

[Caribbean Queen]

This invokes rage in me. Seriously. I cannot stand it anymore.

Help. Rage I tell you rage.

I am at my wits end. I am really feeling an angry rage over this. I feel so horrible about my reaction.

I am feeling desparate here.

I yelled back so loudly at him a few minutes ago that my throat is sore.

 

 

First, :chillpill: His behavior is annoying, yes, but things are not so bad.

"I found out my Dh is cheating on me with my sister." = rage.

"My 4 year old talks when I am talking." = mildly annoyed.

 

1. Interrupting/Phone

While you are having a few, brief words with an adult, whether you are on the phone or in person, your child should not talk to you and you should not talk to him. He doesn't need to say, "Excuse me." he needs to wait until you are done speaking. Saying, "Charlie, I know you want to say something, please wait for mom and dad to finish." is giving him attention. I would only give him a signal to be quiet, once. I might put my finger over my lip and give him a stern look that says, "Be quiet." Then ignore him. When you are done speaking to the adult you give your child the consequence for interupting. He understands that he is not supposed to interupt, he is just disobeying you. You don't need to keep explaining things to him. Take action. Have you tried Super Nanny style Time-Outs? Since your child likes constant attention maybe that would be effective.

 

2. Church

You might try having some church-like sessions at home. You and your children could sing songs from church, read the Bible, and pray together. It may help your son to follow along with the service better and be more respectful of how important church is.

 

When you are in church do not talk to him. If he is being loud tap him on the shoulder and give him a signal to be quiet. If you allow a little conversation he will talk too loudly and too much. It's better to not have side conversations at all. Have him stand and sit and clap and hold a Bible or hymnal even if he can't read. I have not had much success with distracting my childen from the boredom of church with toys and books and such. I have had better results from acting reverant and drawing them into the service.

 

I wouldn't have an adult walk him around in the back of the santuary. He isn't a baby. He can stay in church for 15 minutes.

 

I have told my son, "If I have to leave church because you are loud you will be sorry.":blushing: What kinds of consequences/punishments have your tried?

 

3. Bossy/ Temper Tantrums

When he has a tempter tantrum at home, what happens if you walk away and ignore it? I wonder if he has tantrums because he likes the reaction he gets. Maybe the tantrums are "working for him" in some way. If so, don't give him what he is having a tantrum over. When he cries about his imperfect paper heart don't make him another one. Remove him from co-op for the rest of the morning.