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Considering Tapestry . . . Pros / Cons?


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I am considering making a huge curriculum change for next year and would appreciate input from those who have/are/are-no-longer using Tapestry of Grace.

 

What do you love? What do you hate? Ways to save (b/c IMO it's cost-prohibitive)? Realistic prep time each week?

 

Using a unit study approach for the first time would really stretch me, but I think my kids (to be dd5th, dd3rd, and ds1st) would love it.

 

The website and 3-week trial is helpful, but I'd love to hear from those in the trenches that aren't trying to sell it. ;)

 

Thanks for any and all input.

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What do you love?

 

The 4 year cycle, keeping my kids all on the same subject, looking forward to the depth of biblical worldview woven into TOG in the D and R years.

 

What do you hate?

 

So far nothing but notice my kids are very young and this is our first year.

 

Ways to save (b/c IMO it's cost-prohibitive)?

 

Using the library, combining levels, buying books used might all help. It helps me to remember that books will be reused so while the initial cost is high it won't be as bad later. I have four kids and am thinking about more so that may or may not make it more helpful for you.

 

Realistic prep time each week?

 

I think if a person spent a solid day or two planning before the year began you could make TOG basically open and go all year. I have realized from reading Heather's (Siloam) wonderful posts on TOG that I would fall into the category of "tweaking" anything I used. I find the planning to be easy so far.

 

Like I said earlier, my kids are little and it is early on but I LOVE TOG so far.

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I am considering making a huge curriculum change for next year and would appreciate input from those who have/are/are-no-longer using Tapestry of Grace.

 

What do you love? What do you hate? Ways to save (b/c IMO it's cost-prohibitive)? Realistic prep time each week?

 

Using a unit study approach for the first time would really stretch me, but I think my kids (to be dd5th, dd3rd, and ds1st) would love it.

 

The website and 3-week trial is helpful, but I'd love to hear from those in the trenches that aren't trying to sell it. ;)

 

Thanks for any and all input.

 

I love the integration of topics, and the depth, also the flexibility to change books.

 

I buy a lot of the books used. On Half they discount the shipping if you buy from one shipper, and I take advantage of the Amazon buy 4 for the price of 3 sale that is always going on.

 

The hardest parts of TOG are 1. getting used to it. It takes time. If you want to use it this fall order it now and commit to going through it all summer. I didn't do that but I started out only using the history part, then I added mapping, then 9 months later I added the Lit. I have since played with the different pieces and for the last year or so I haven't changed things much. Most people don't give themselves that kind of time because they spent so much $$ on it and they want to get as much use as possible out of it, so they have a hard time saying no to stuff they should. That brings to pint 2. You have to say no to perfectly good stuff. There is too much to do it all every week. You have to be able to pick and choose.

 

I would strongly suggest you try the 3 week trial. I have seen way to many people love the idea of TOG, buy it and then sell it. Sometimes without even opening it they are so overwhelmed by how much there is.

 

Heather

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I don't really enjoy it. We are going to change to (I think) Oak Meadow for both 5th and 9th grades.

 

What didn't I like? That I had to spend so much time in "prep." Maybe it would be open and go if you had a photographic memory and didn't have to read the extensive teacher's notes. Maybe I'm just a baby and want it more easy for ME!!

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I am considering making a huge curriculum change for next year and would appreciate input from those who have/are/are-no-longer using Tapestry of Grace.

 

What do you love? What do you hate? Ways to save (b/c IMO it's cost-prohibitive)? Realistic prep time each week?

 

Using a unit study approach for the first time would really stretch me, but I think my kids (to be dd5th, dd3rd, and ds1st) would love it.

 

The website and 3-week trial is helpful, but I'd love to hear from those in the trenches that aren't trying to sell it. ;)

 

Thanks for any and all input.

 

Have you considered starting Omnibus in two years? :leaving:

Edited by JudoMom
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I love the planning done for me. I love the integration of subjects. I love that I can teach all kids with one curriculum.

 

I figure the cost at $45 a unit (8-9 weeks) is way less than I spend on music lessons or dance lessons, and I can reuse it. 80-90% of the books are at the library. Others that I buy will get used again, lowering the cost. If you look at how much it will be used, I think it's a bargain.

 

Cons - It is a lot to digest. I'm glad I am starting it before dialectic so that I can ease into it. I am mainly doing history and literature this year, some geography. I will take some time this summer to get organized next year to add writing aids, map aids, and move oldest dd up to Dialectic.

 

I have found it organized our "school" a lot. Good luck with your decision.

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We have been using TOG for our second rotation and are really liking it. I wouldn't have traded SOTW, though, for the first rotation and your kids are still pretty young. To save costs you could just do SOTW (which is scheduled in TOG for the younger kids) and start the oldest on some of the UG books.

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Thanks for the cost perspective. That helps.

 

I agree about SOTW. It's been a wonderful first rotation. We've gone through it 1.25 times now (the .25 because I'm ready to do something more active and more integrated with other subjects now). And I've heard that Tapestry works well if you begin when your oldest is in 5th? [Can anyone substantiate that claim?]

 

Also, can anyone who has done Y1U1 recommended definite "must buys" if I plan to get many of the other books through the library? It appears that a good handful of the books for U1 will be used throughout Y1.

 

Thanks for all of this feedback. It helps.

Edited by Krista in Colorado
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This is our first year with TOG and we love it so much that we have already bought our Yr. 2 plan and I'm setting resource books aside -- which I'll explain in more detail below.

 

There's plenty to love about TOG. What I appreciate the most is that it offers a Christian worldview as we look at history, it is highly organized and laid out for me - the teacher, it has fully integrated subjects that are rich and meaningful to us, and it is very thorough with detailed information and student activities. I'd also add that I think in the long run, when you consider that the materials are used and re-used through the four year rotations of history -- especially as you go through them with multiple students at different levels, the cost is actually dirt cheap.

 

What I don't like is that there are really great activities and reading suggestions that we have to skip over because we just don't have time to do it all. I guess if there is a problem with using a curriculum, this is the best kind to have. :~)

 

Aside from these points, here are some other thoughts and some ways that I've come up with to save money:

 

We are also fans of SOTW, and use it along side TOG for our UG studies. I started my daughter on TOG last fall at the beginning of 5th grade. There are options on what type of TM you would prefer (i.e. digital, hard copy print or both...) We bought a used Redesigned Yr 1 plan, a hard copy version because that is my preference. I want to be able to continue school no matter what -- no matter the weather or even in a crisis, so my hard copy books are always available. I plan to put these tm's away and use them again up ahead when my dd is in high school. My thought is that technology may advance so much by then that the DE version will be out of date anyway. Hard copies are a good thing in my opinion for both reasons I've listed, plus buying used copies saves me money. By purchasing used I paid almost half for all four units than I would have paid brand new. And I did the same thing just recently by buying a gently used Redesigned Yr 2 hard copy edition. I already have it on the shelf to be used for 6th grade next year.

 

For resource books, we do a couple of things. First, I belong to Bookmooch.com and Paperbackswap.com where I post books that I am willing to give to others in exchange for points that I can spend on books that I want. (All I pay for is postage to mail my books to people that request them. So I post all sorts of hs books that we are done with as well as personal books on both sites.) By doing this, I have already obtained at least 15 resource books for next year's reading assignments! Sometime this summer I will take inventory of what I've accumulated and determine what is needed for the rest of the year.

 

From there I will purchase books from Amazon.com or from local bookstores unit by unit until we have all the resource books that we need. In other words, I don't pay for the entire year's resource books at one time. This is my way of breaking it down to reasonable costs during the school year.

 

Some people do use their local library for resource books, but it does not work for us because we live in a rural area and the use of our libraries is not free and they most often don't have the books I need anyway. If you live near a good library system, this would be a wonderful way to save money too.

 

This is my way of using an incredible, faith - centered curriculum that is dearly loved and appreciated by my family in a way that is very realistic to our budget. As you can see, I am always looking ahead and obtaining books before we need them. We do plan and budget in for a large curriculum purchase in late summer each year, at which time we buy math, Latin and our other subjects, but this is how I am able to obtain our TOG materials without getting hit too hard in the pocket book.

 

There are a LOT of TOG users here in the hive, so there is a wealth of help and support if you have more questions or make the decision to give this great curriculum a try.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

Edited by HSMom2One
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Krista - My understanding on the benefits of starting in 5th, is that it gives you time to get your feet wet before you hit the Dialectic stage. The pace picks up and so does the intensity, as it should in preparation for Rhetoric. However, one thing I love is that I can move my dd up to D. in some subjects, like Literature, but keep her in Upper Grammar for History. This allows me to combine my two oldest dd's for History, which saves time and lets me choose challenging and interesting books for their reading level. My oldest is 5th, but we are only on our 2nd unit. I am just beginning to throw some Dialectic books her way. I know she can read, understand and enjoy them. I'm wondering how she will do with the activity sheets. Anyway, I am glad I jumped into TOG when I did. I'm hoping I will feel secure about fully transitioning her fully into Dialectic by fall. If she's not ready yet, we'll still be doing good. I'm looking at this long term.

 

I can't help you on Y1 U1. We're on Y2. However, if you go on their on-line bookstore, Lampstand (?) - you can enter the year and unit you are looking at, choose the level and subjects. It will bring up all the books and tell you how many weeks each is used. If it's used more than 2 wks, I'd say it's probably important. BUT, that's not always the case. I got an activity book that we rarely use, even though it is listed as 5+ weeks. Generally, that has seemed to be a good way to judge.

 

There are people on this board with a lot more experience than me that could give you advice.

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I am considering using TOG (or maybe I should saying hoping to) for next year. I would like to do Year 2. However, to make it more manageable and enjoyable, I plan to do it at half speed. So, we would only cover the Middle Ages and the Renaissance next year. That will also allow for time to do other things (more read alouds, other curriculum options, or just enjoying life:)) but it will also make it easier for me to find my footing with TOG. I will have a 10 yo and 8 yo next year.

 

Woolybear

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We are finishing up our first year with TOG. I have 4th, 3rd, and K students. I echo what the others have posted about the Christian worldview and the students all being in one spot of history but not just one era but the same topics every week. And I LOVE the Pop Quiz idea, where the dad's have a little heads up to the weeks study and a list of questions they can ask to check in with their kids. I love that it puts dads in the position of authority in the home instead of the defensive when kids spout out with "Did you know....?"

 

As to the question whether to use SOTW until you reach the dialectic age, I would say no. One of the beauties of TOG is the foundation you build upon with every cycle. I am using SOTW as a read aloud introduction to the weeks readings with my kids. Then they are responsible for their own reading and we discuss at the end of the week.

 

One thing I've found lacking with SOTW is the overarching biblical worldview. TOG does a great job at constantly bringing the kids back to the tapestry of grace the God was weaving through every point of history. With the grammar ages, you're just beginning to establish this, then they will develop a deeper understanding the next go around. I have just seen this past year that SOTW lacks so much of that deeper understanding. It blessed my heart to hear my son tell his auntie "Well, that's just another example of God's common grace to the world, isn't it?" He's 8 and he's understanding.

 

One of my other concerns about strictly using SOTW is that so much of it is presented with literary license but written so it sounds factual. My kids have realize from their other readings that what was presented as an "It was" in SOTW is written as "We think it may have been" in other resources. Hope that makes sense.

 

As to prep time...my husband is very patiently commenting on my prep time. His mom homeschooled with ACE so the concept of prep time doesn't even apply in his mind. I spend about 2 hrs. a week. If you are going to be reading all the books with your children, then you may not need to read every word of the teacher prep notes. However, if you don't read the notes and you don't read the books with your kids, you will feel VERY lost and frustrated. Marcia has written this program to be a discipleship experience for your children. As she puts it, you're not an administrator. You'll be a teacher. And to teach, you have to know it yourself. I think you students will get most out of it if you know what where you're headed during the week and can guide them in their thinking. The weeks that I've fudged on the teacher notes have been our most frustrating weeks. In my book, at least a scanning of the teacher notes is essential to help you understand the links between the books assigned and the history you're covering.

 

One note on the library, paperbackswap, etc. resources. We're low budget too and there are lots of ways to get cheaper resources but it is going to cost you time. I spend almost 2 hrs. a week just preparing for the week, getting maps ready, prepping vocab. etc. But the time I have spent rounding up next years books at a low cost is definitely adding up. I would so love to order them all new in one afternoon!!

 

I think it will be worth my time. It is an amazing program and I've learned so much personally! One thing to remember about that three week trial though. It's taken from the most exciting weeks of the whole first unit. It's packed to the gills with resources and projects. The whole of the year plan does not look so overwhelming so just keep that in mind.

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What do I love?

 

It's all laid out for you, books, geography, vocabulary, projects, etc. Different levels all for the same subject. Good books. Easy to schedule, imo.

 

What do I hate?

 

I'm afraid to even say this, but IMO, its too hard. Well hard isn't the right word, but, again IMO, Rhetoric is way over high school level. It's more like college level. This is just history (yes, I know it has more, but in simple terms this is just history). More important to me, for my children, is math, writing and science. Reading definitely too, which this covers, though heavily.

 

Ways to save?

 

Library - and don't be afraid to use whatever book is available on the subject. And don't be afraid not to do it all.

 

Realistic prep time?

 

For me, about 1 hour once a week which covered both kids and trips to the library.

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Lucinda--

I just reread your post. Wait a minute--the use of your library is not free???? I thought public libraries were always free. Or is yours not a public library?

 

Woolybear

 

One would think so, but here is the case. We live in a small rural community that is 10 miles away from Town A and 11 miles away from Town B. Both towns are connected to the same public library system, but you have to live within city limits to use either library at no cost. If you live in a nearby town or out in the country, you have to pay an annual fee to use the libraries. Once you pay the fee, you have access to all libraries in the system. There is a special card you can get for no charge, but you are substantially limited on how many books you can check out at a time. Kind of a bummer if you ask me...Sometimes I pay the fee if I think we'll be using the library a lot during a given time, but I still don't always get the books that I want.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

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One would think so, but here is the case. We live in a small rural community that is 10 miles away from Town A and 11 miles away from Town B. Both towns are connected to the same public library system, but you have to live within city limits to use either library at no cost. If you live in a nearby town or out in the country, you have to pay an annual fee to use the libraries. Once you pay the fee, you have access to all libraries in the system. There is a special card you can get for no charge, but you are substantially limited on how many books you can check out at a time. Kind of a bummer if you ask me...Sometimes I pay the fee if I think we'll be using the library a lot during a given time, but I still don't always get the books that I want.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

 

Wow...this substantially alters my fantasy vision of living out in the country.:D

 

Woolybear

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We are in our second year of doing TOG with a 10th, 8th, 4th, and 3rd grader. I like it with my older kids, but honestly, I would look at SL if I only had younger kids. With SL, you can buy the whole package, have it delivered to you, and the daily work is all laid out for you. The SL, read-aloud thing is very child-friendly. There is more fun literature for the younger kids; TOG is more heavy in the non-fiction.

 

I really do love having all 4 kids on the same page of history. The high school and junior high school materials are top-notch and the teacher's notes for the upper grades are fabulous!! I love the Christian worldview and the Bible history presented throughout all four levels and all four years. I like the maps that are all ready for each week, too. I LOVE that it works on the four-year cycle of history and integrates world and American history. I like that is doesn't totally neglect eastern history.

 

I really dislike this program from the lower grades. I didn't think it exposed them to enough good books because they try so had to match the books to the history. Not every part of history has a coordinating easy reader book! I'm not a big fan of the activities, but, then again, I'm not a craftsy person!

 

It is not terribly expensive to buy the books for the LG and UG levels. The TOG material you buy is for all possible learning levels. If you continue with TOG, you won't have to buy more TOG material for your next lap through history. The LG and UG books are largely available in your library and through book swap sites. You'll need to plan ahead, though, to make sure you have them on-hand when you needs them (that's a pain). BUT, for the LG and UG books, you can readily substitute out one book for another. For example, this year in TOG 2, did it really matter WHAT book on medieval castles my kids read? No, it just mattered that they DID read one. I would recommend that you spend time on bookshelfcentral.com and see what books are needed for multiple weeks or multiple years. Buy those. Check the common literature books out of the library and use ILL for those. Don't overdo the history--just do the regular history, not the history in-depth. That will keep cost down.

 

I do ALL of my prepwork in the summer. I prep assignments from TOG for 4 kids at 3 different levels. I write up weekly assignments after deciding which of the books I want the kids to use. I order all the books we don't have and place them in one place in the house for easy reference. I print off maps (and wish I'd done the student activity pages, too). My prep then is 10 minutes on Sunday night.

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We are currently using TOG Y1 and are about 3/4s done so far. I really wanted to like TOG. I love the idea of all the integrated subjects, the Biblical worldview and keeping my dc together on the same subject. However my two dc are 3 years apart in age and at least 3 years apart academically. The older one (4th grade) is also a history buff--he loves and devours history related stuff, so he is solidly a UG student. The younger one is a more typical 1st grader and indisputably an LG student.

 

What this meant for me as a teacher was that I was teaching two complete history programs--two sets of history books, two sets of literature books, two different levels of Bible reading (one from the Bible, the other from a Bible story book), two different time slots reading out loud to 1 dc at a time, and 2 sets of decisions on what to buy and what to read each week. I could just as easily picked an appropriate Ancient History curriculum for my older dc and reused my SL Core 1 for my younger dc and at least saved myself the second set of decisions and planning and some money.

 

Given the age spread of my children and the differences in interests, there probably isn't a curriculum that will truly allow me to combine them, but MFW RtR seems like it might work with my older dc doing the complete program and the younger dc focusing mainly on the SoTW piece of the program. In any case, it will at least save me some money since I already own SoTW 2 and Activity book.

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Lucinda--

I just reread your post. Wait a minute--the use of your library is not free???? I thought public libraries were always free. Or is yours not a public library?

 

Woolybear

 

Not everybody lives in a library district. And it is not just about living in the city or country. We just moved from a fairly large city in the Chicago suburbs, and we did not live in a library district. It would have cost me $180 per year to have a library card. I always thought that this was too much. But now that I have access to a library, I realize that it would be totally worth it. I pay at least that much to the library via taxes. And we have 30-40 books out at any given time.

 

Tracy

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Not everybody lives in a library district. And it is not just about living in the city or country. We just moved from a fairly large city in the Chicago suburbs, and we did not live in a library district. It would have cost me $180 per year to have a library card. I always thought that this was too much. But now that I have access to a library, I realize that it would be totally worth it. I pay at least that much to the library via taxes. And we have 30-40 books out at any given time.

 

Tracy

 

I think it depends on personal preference and how good the library system in the given area actually is. In our case, our libraries don't have all the books that I would need so it is not worth the money I would have to pay annually to have access to the system. When the library does have the books we need, I don't like it to have to give them back or renew them at a scheduled time. We often like to keep a book around for awhile and re-read it or at least refer to it to refresh a memory. That is why I prefer to obtain our own books, but I know that not everyone can or even may want to do that. We prefer to have the books that we want to keep on our home library shelf, and then we either donate or sell the books that we are ready to let go of.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

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The Y2 workload was too much for my history-loving oldest dd. I chose some alternate resources, but the page count was so high, we fell hopelessly behind. It felt like all we were doing was history, and school was falling apart. There was no way for me to go through all that material to pick and choose which pages should be read, and which could be skipped.

 

Also, I didn't realize it before I bought it, :glare: but Y2 covers SOTW 2 AND part of SOTW 3. That's just wayyyy too much ground to cover in one year, IMNSHO.

 

ETA: I planned the whole year to make it open-and-go, but when I realized that it wasn't working at all, the planning and work all went out the window.

Edited by FlockOfSillies
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Not trying to hijack the thread, but would you not start TOG if you had to start with a high schooler? I am wanting to begin a 4 year cycle year after next. My dd will be 9th and ds will be 3rd. I have been trying to figure out which curriculum would provide for both those ages.

 

My dd will be doing SL Core 100 next year, and I'm making up the lesson plans for ds. I don't know how the two compare because that will be my first year with SL.

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I don't have much new to add to the previous posts other than to comment on your concerns about:

 

Cost: If you purchase print, the resale value of this program is very high. I consistantly see redesign year plans selling for 70% of cost (or better). The new DE version is a license for your exclusive use; you can not resell the DE program.

 

Also, don't forget you can purchase TOG a unit at a time. For $60.00 or $8/week - you can give it a good try.

 

Prep Time: I classify my prep into two parts. Planning the whole year (how TOG would integrate with my Math and Science, what extra writing we wanted to do, which activities from TOG I wanted to try, printing the maps, making notebooks) took a solid two weeks during the summer.

 

Weekly planning and prep. takes about 45 minutes to an hour.

 

Best wishes as you .

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Not trying to hijack the thread, but would you not start TOG if you had to start with a high schooler? I am wanting to begin a 4 year cycle year after next. My dd will be 9th and ds will be 3rd. I have been trying to figure out which curriculum would provide for both those ages.

 

My dd will be doing SL Core 100 next year, and I'm making up the lesson plans for ds. I don't know how the two compare because that will be my first year with SL.

 

I personally think it would work for you to start at that point with your dc. You should also get opinions from other TOG users since I've only been using the curriculum this school year, but it makes sense to me from what I've learned so far about TOG that you should realistically be able to go through the four year rotation with your older and younger together for the next four years using the levels they would both need for each year plan. You should then be able to move your youngest from LG/UG to D level for the next 4-year rotation.

 

You might consider going to the TOG forum or one of the TOG Yahoo groups and posting a question about how to do this. There are a lot of TOG users here, but the other sites are helpful as well.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

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Another thought...

 

Is there any possiblity that you could borrow the first half of a year from someone locally who uses TOG? I currently have two sections of mine out to friends who are contemplating the program. The advantage is that you can more readily see what resources are recommended than by pulling up the book list on Lampstand Press. (TOG site).

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Not trying to hijack the thread, but would you not start TOG if you had to start with a high schooler? I am wanting to begin a 4 year cycle year after next. My dd will be 9th and ds will be 3rd. I have been trying to figure out which curriculum would provide for both those ages.

 

 

You might consider "getting your feet wet" with TOG before high school. The R level can be a bit heavy for some, and there is quite a leap between the D and R levels. I used TOG 2 years in a co-op. We started with Yr4 Classic, and the oldest students were in 8th grade doing D level. Our second year we did Yr1 Redesign; oldest students in 9th did the R level. We only did history and lit, even cutting out some of the lit selections to give time for more discussion on the remaining selections. The leaders also dropped (can't remember the title of) one of the last books in Yr1 to allow for some fun reading: Ben Hur. While there are a lot of things I love about TOG (already mentioned by previous posters), it was not a good fit for my older ds (who was in the R class). I'm not sure what I would have chosen to follow up TOG with as he's now attending classes at a private school.

 

Cinder

Edited by Cinder
typos
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You might consider "getting your feet wet" with TOG before high school. The R level can be a bit heavy for some, and there is quite a leap between the D and R levels. I used TOG 2 years in a co-op. We started with Yr4 Classic, and the oldest students were in 8th grade doing D level. Our second year we did Yr1 Redesign; oldest students in 9th did the R level. We only did history and lit, even cutting out some of the lit selections to give time for more discussion on the remaining selections. The leaders also dropped (can't remember the title of) one of the last books in Yr1 to allow for some fun reading: Ben Hur. While there are a lot of things I love about TOG (already mentioned by previous posters), it was not a good fit for my older ds (who was in the R class). I'm not sure what I would have chosen to follow up TOG with as he's now attending classes at a private school.

 

Cinder

 

How would you suggest "getting my feet wet"? I have already purchased SL Core 100 for next year, so I won't be able to put much money into it. I thought I saw somewhere that you can purchase a unit at a time now. Would that be a good option? Should I just choose some time period that would have a lot of American history in it and use it during the right time period we will be in? I guess I could look for materials used, also. Are they hard to find?

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How would you suggest "getting my feet wet"? I have already purchased SL Core 100 for next year, so I won't be able to put much money into it. I thought I saw somewhere that you can purchase a unit at a time now. Would that be a good option? Should I just choose some time period that would have a lot of American history in it and use it during the right time period we will be in? I guess I could look for materials used, also. Are they hard to find?

 

You did what I did--planned to use SL Core 100 prior to our TOG adventure. I ended up selling that, though, when the TOG co-op opportunity presented itself. As to getting your feet wet, what Corbie mentioned about using the online sample for Colonial America might work for you. Or maybe try the Yr1 sample over the summer?

 

As far as finding used, if you haven't joined the TOG forum, you might try there. It's best to have the year plan in front of you and then decide what to purchase. I ended up purchasing from several sources to get lower prices on the rhetoric selections. They do get pricey.

 

Cinder

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