Grammar that teaches whole-part/big picture first?

[lisabees]

Does that even make sense? We are struggling through JAG. Dyslexic ds is having a difficult time. He can label most things correctly, but in his mind, he is just putting little letters above words because he's supposed to - not because there is a purpose and he truly understands. He still cannot recognize a prepositional phrase. He just looks for the prepositions he can actually remember. Isn't there a program that clearly and visually demonstrates what PP look like and sound like? It is so hard for him to label so many words before he is supposed to even find the PP.

 

I don't know. It's been an exercise in frustration for us. Just wondering what else is out there.

 

We just started the subject/verb unit and I'm thinking...isn't this the logical place to start before picking every little noun, adj, pn, etc? Or is this just the way my mind thinks? Should I give it more time?

 

Thanks. ;)

[MIch elle]

Does that even make sense? We are struggling through JAG. Dyslexic ds is having a difficult time. He can label most things correctly, but in his mind, he is just putting little letters above words because he's supposed to - not because there is a purpose and he truly understands. He still cannot recognize a prepositional phrase. He just looks for the prepositions he can actually remember. Isn't there a program that clearly and visually demonstrates what PP look like and sound like? It is so hard for him to label so many words before he is supposed to even find the PP.

 

I don't know. It's been an exercise in frustration for us. Just wondering what else is out there.

 

We just started the subject/verb unit and I'm thinking...isn't this the logical place to start before picking every little noun, adj, pn, etc? Or is this just the way my mind thinks? Should I give it more time?

 

Thanks. ;)

 

Look at the R&S English samples: http://www.rodandstaff.info/samples/6/english/

[Crimson Wife]

Isn't Winston supposed to be good for kids with LD's?

[Flaura]

My dyslexic ds had the same problem with JAG. We switched to R&S 4 and he can do the work. I am not sure it is really making sense. We just started reading MCT's grammar island and it seems to be putting it all together for him. We use dictation/copywork to talk about usage and mechanics.

[Capt_Uhura]

I've not seen JAG. Have you looked at MCT? Ducking for cover lol. We just finished prepositional phrases. MCT teaches prepositions as words that tell the relationship between two things and that relationship is space (on, in, above), time (before, after, during), or direction (toward, from, to). He also says that it has the rhythm DUM Da Dum w/ the typical pattern preposition, then article, then noun. How about write a simple sentence w/ prepositional phrase and have DS act it out? Have him write a simple sentence w/ a PP and you act it out.

 

If your DS likes a story format and humor, he'd enjoy reading MCT's materials. Perhaps it would help him connect to the material. In the grammar books, he uses dialogue between characters to illustrate a point. To give you an example, I'll post one more son wrote which is modeled after MCT's stories and illustrates use of adverbs.

 

The wet duck swam are friends but they wanted a new pal so off they went. They came across greedily, “Hey greedily, want to be friends?†said the wet duck swam.

 

“Uh, no well, no,†said Greedily so off they went.

 

Then the wet duck swam saw ran. “Want to be pals ran?â€

 

“Nope, I’m a verb and you have swam,†said ran.

 

But then they saw quickly, “Hey want to be pals?†said the wet duck Swam.

 

“Sure,†said quickly and the wet duck swam quickly.

 

 

Now, MCT's are better lol but this is how he illustrates the topics in Grammar Island. I just remembered a great one he did on prepositions.

[April in NC]

I agree that MCT might be a good route. The thing that I like about it is that it presents almost all of the grammar for the year in about one month. This means that you quickly get the big picture of what you are trying to accomplish, instead of dithering for weeks over nouns before ever moving on to something else. After covering the grammar, you get to spend the rest of the year practicing everything that you have learned, and applying it in different situations. MCT also incorporates lots of visuals and story elements to help convey the true sense of each concept.

 

MCT does move quickly, though. My children are perfectionists, and I think I'm going to have to work with them on not necessarily understanding every detail right away, but rather starting with the big picture and then drilling down to deeper and deeper understanding of the details by applied practice. They have traditionally been parts to whole learners, but they get bored by that approach, and bogged down, sometimes. So far, we are really enjoying the Grammar Island - It has been a refreshing change!

[EKS]

MCT. Absolutely. I'm using MCT with great success with my 13yo dyslexic son.

[Capt_Uhura]

Yes the graphics in MCT are great. I've made them into small posters so that we can review them quickly and easily.

[ElizabethB]

It might help and be fun to some mad libs while you're waiting for whatever you switch to.

[Crimson Wife]

I agree that MCT might be a good route. The thing that I like about it is that it presents almost all of the grammar for the year in about one month.

 

See, this is why I simply don't understand how MCT devotees can claim the program is "meaty". How can it possibly be so meaty and rigorous if all the grammar it covers can be done in a single month? :confused:

[Matryoshka]

See, this is why I simply don't understand how MCT devotees can claim the program is "meaty". How can it possibly be so meaty and rigorous if all the grammar it covers can be done in a single month? :confused:

 

Because it's whole-to-parts. It presents the big picture first, then works on the detail throughout the year (that's the Practice book, and there's also lots in the writing books). You're not done with grammar after the grammar book. This is a very different approach from practicing one part at a time before putting it all together. Each approach has its merits. :)

 

We did EG last year, which was parts-to-whole, and I think that was quite useful. But I wouldn't want to do another year basically slogging through the same thing again! And yes, with MCT's 4-level analysis I can analyze a sentence in much more depth than with EG's method (though since EG isn't diagramming I realize none of that is going to persuade die-hard diagramming fans).

 

On the MCT Yahoo group, someone just shared a post from MCT that explained why the 4-level analysis can get even more meaning out of a sentence than diagramming, though... :D

[Sweetbabe]

Whats MCT and EG?:confused:

[PeterPan]

If this is the first time he's really done grammar, that might be the issue and not the curriculum itself. I basically flunked russian the first year I took it, because it was so new to me. I went back and studied hard, reviewed the textbook over the summer, and went on to do fine the next year. I even minored in russian and went to Russia for a summer. The first time in anything is hard, and you don't expect it to stick. That's why things repeat each year. Sure add some manipulatives. Take your lessons out of the box and play with them. You can even change curricula if you want. But it's probably more that he'll finally have seen it enough different ways for it to click, not that one program was so much better than another.

 

Have you tried taking all the defs and just having him memorize them upfront? You said you wanted big picture, and that would get you there. It's what FLL1/2 does, so there's no reason you can't do it with JAG. Have you tried doing the sentences on a whiteboard in COLOR (if he's a visual learner) and then having him do more exercises a little later as his independent work? Have you tried doing LESS exercises, but really focusing on them and talking about them and fleshing them out as much as possible? I'd rather do 3 sentences and talk through every single thing in them than to do 10 mindlessly following patterns. Have you tried carrying the grammar over to his writing time and having him find the parts of speech or whatever you're studying in his writing text models? Have you tried having Magic Reward Day where he gets the rest of the day off or a trip to Wendy's for a frosty (or whatever motivates him) if he finds 3 examples of such and such part of speech in his reading?