sheryl Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 My soon to be 11 yo dd is "special needs". She has controlled epilepsy....PTL 2 years seizure free next month. Along with epilepsy, controlled or not, come residual issues that fall in the bahavioral category, such as: add (lacks "some" attention through lack of focus), adhd (hyper), odd (defiant). She has these 3 in a mild form. I'm not sure about expressive language deficit or auditory processing issues. Her memory is just not great on some days. It is like a roller coaster. Some days are better than others. Some days she learns well and can remember and other days not. She's a sweet girl and much loved, :001_smile: but h'schooling her can be trying sometimes. I've always used Abeka as her core. However, we supplement with a variety of books. Abeka is very thorough and repetitive. Of course, that's going to be for an extent. Abeka is just so comprehensive, and I'm wondering if she needs all of that information. Any advice for Language, Science and History? She does use Saxon Math and the same question applies if there is a better program out there for her with her learning style. For the record she gets "usually" mid A's to mid B's with Abeka and Saxon, but to accomplish that we school ALL DAY....which I don't believe is good or necessary. Look forward to hearing for some good reply posts. Thanks. Sheryl <>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 Is there no advice to be had out here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 No help, but I feel for you. I have a friend whose grown daughter has (difficult to control) epilepsy that has affected her memory, etc. I guess it's the damage from the seizures, not sure. In any case, I feel for you. I suggest trying things that can be patient for you, so you don't wear yourself out. Have you thought about TT math, which would be on the computer? Does screen time give her seizures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelia Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I think you certainly could change your programs if you aren't happy with what you are using. I wouldn't want to have to spend all day doing school either. For language, are you referring to language arts (grammar, spelling, writing) or a foreign language? For LA, you might look at Intermediate Language Lessons or maybe MCT island or town levels. It's difficult to advise not knowing her learning style or capabilities, though. Story of the World with the activity guide might be good for history especially for a hands-on child, or maybe History at Our House if she learns well by listening. Oak Meadow's 5th grade (I'm assuming she's in 5th grade) covers American history, if you would rather study that. I'm not sure how to advise you on science, maybe look at Mr. Q's classical science curriculum, Oak Meadow or Sonlight? It might be a good idea to cross-post your questions on the special needs board, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Hedgehog Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osaubi Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 See if your library has Cathy Duffy's 100 Top Picks for Homeschool. That could give you a feeling for what kind of curriculum is out there that may be more appealing to her learning style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNC Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I recommend CLE math,LA and reading. Spiral workbooks help w/ retention. CLE is an excellent curriculum. Though it sounds like she's doing very well academically with what you are using already, Cle is easy to schedule and doesn't take all day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) It's just so hard to "switch". If I switch is she going to get what she needs to learn. Abeka is soooooo thorough. But, it's taking all day along with her math. She's mid way through 5th grade. She does math and language everyday. One lesson of Saxon math lesson would involve 30 problems (story and problem) each day. One language lesson averages to about 2 - 2+ each day. Those are the big ones. Then, we are finishing Science before moving on to History. Approx. 5-10 pages of reading with a few comprehension check questions. Now that's with many big pictures, so if you deleted those....actual text reading might be about 4 full sides. We'll finish up with Science and start History mid Jan to mid - May, approx. If we have time, which is doubtful as the above can take 3-4 hours, we do spelling review/test, dictation, copywork, penmanship (I'm creative here so these 3 may only take 15-30 min here and it's not everyday). Story writing/creative writing....maybe 1 project a month. Literature reading/read aloud.....not everyday.....I know...there's no consistency here. Art and Music are out the window because I do not have time with her to do these. Actually we start the day with devotions/Bible time. She's a auditory learner, but I'm going to confirm this. She loves hands on and she is an avid reader. I believe she's a little bit of all! With add, adhd kids they need lots of breaks. We no sooner get started than there is a break. That's why the above written in that order can take soooo long in any given day. She's very bright. The A/B grade is using Abeka and they are respecable in their content. She is, by God's grace, seizure free for almost 2 years. However, I do think for the 8 months she had symptoms it may have weakened her learning power/reasoning/critical thinking/memory, etc. Generally speaking she is a bright and talented girl. I've wondered about Abeka from the time even before she had onset of her first and only "major" seizure. I like Abeka, but it is so tedious. Any other recommendations? Sheryl <>< Edited January 9, 2010 by sheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I guess I'm not totally understanding what you're trying to fix, but for the math have you tried doing it in sessions? For instance, break the problems into 2 or 3 sets. Set the timer for 15 minutes (or however long she can focus typically in one sitting) and work hard and focused for that period of time. Race to see if she can get that smaller chunk of the math done in that smaller time period. Then go do some hands-on activity or math or PE or something. Then come back next hour and do another short session on math. Repeat this process, alternating movement and short bursts of academics. See if that helps/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) Her memory is just not great on some days... It is like a roller coaster. Some days are better than others. Some days she learns well and can remember and other days not... She does use Saxon Math and the same question applies if there is a better program out there for her with her learning style... For the record she gets "usually" mid A's to mid B's with Abeka and Saxon, but to accomplish that we school ALL DAY....which I don't believe is good or necessary. You didn't mention what level of math your daughter is doing, so this may not apply to you, but when I read the statements I quoted above, my first thought was Horizons math. Horizons is a spiral program, like Saxon. New concepts are introduced and old concepts are reviewed with each lesson. There are several differences between them, however. Horizons is a colorful workbook, some may find that distracting. My ADHD son did not have any issues with it, he said it kept him engaged. The spiral for Horizons is a lot faster than the spiral for Horizons. This means that new topics are introduced more frequently and it means that old topics are reviewed more frequently. The more frequent review might be more helpful for your daughter. Like Saxon, there are a lot of problems to do. You could easily have her do half of the problems (choosing, for example, half of each section). If doing all of the problems is more beneficial, you could slow the pace down and have her do 1/2 of the lesson one day, the second half the next day. Horizons math is K-6, although in my experience they are a little advanced, so a 7th grader might do 6th grade, etc. Each year is broken down into two parts, so you could choose the last half of a year and then move forward. If she is already taking pre-algebra, however, then Horizons would not be appropriate. Your daughter has a good solid grade in math, so it seems that the Saxon you are doing now might just be the ticket with no need to change. I know I am always wondering if there is "something better" out there, so I want to encourage you to stick with the parts of your curriculum that are working for you. It may be a matter of adjusting the volume of work so that her day doesn't take so long. When considering changes, concentrate on the subjects that truly are not working for her before you check out the ones where she is learning to your satisfaction. Try to figure out why a particular subject isn't working and then look for other things to use that help bridge those learning style gaps or provide a different approach. As far as science goes, I wanted a good solid program and there honestly are a lot of those out there. The tipping point for me was the way books were set up. I deliberately picked a science curriculum that had a lot of study helps built into it because my son has some problems with executive functioning. I am also deliberately working with him on scheduling, routines and responsibilites as well as general study skills in hopes that he will be better prepared for high school course work. When you look around at curriculum, be sure to keep in mind not only her learning style, but what your priorities and her priorites for education are concerned. Everyone has different priorities, so don't be afraid to do your own thing!:D ETA: see my response to another post! Edited January 9, 2010 by TechWife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 For the record she gets "usually" mid A's to mid B's with Abeka and Saxon, but to accomplish that we school ALL DAY....which I don't believe is good or necessary. Look forward to hearing for some good reply posts. Thanks. Sheryl <>< My ds is just a normal boy and it takes him ALL day to get his schoolwork done too. He's not in a rush to get it done :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 If she is an auditory learner, you could check out History at Our House, or even the SOTW CDs. Calvert Spelling CD, BJU DVDs for science, or maybe Ring of Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) It's just so hard to "switch". If I switch is she going to get what she needs to learn. Everyone wonders from time to time if they are leaving gaps in their kids' education. To be honest, we are all probably leaving gaps! That comes with the territory of education, though. All students' have gaps in their education, I know I did and still do. Don't let this concern be what keeps you from making necessary changes. Abeka is soooooo thorough.But, it's taking all day along with her math. She's mid way through 5th grade. She does math and language everyday. One lesson of Saxon math lesson would involve 30 problems (story and problem) each day. One language lesson averages to about 2 - 2+ each day. Those are the big ones. I am a little confused here. Is it the Abeka subjects + math that are taking all day? How long is "all day?" Also, what is a language lesson? Is that a foreign language or something else? Is all of her math work either traditional, scripted Saxon meeting time followed by problems to work? If so, consider mixing it up a bit. Below, you indicate that she is a hands on person, so perhaps some math games might be in order in place of a scripted lesson one or two days a week? When I am thinking about how long a subject should take, which I have to do often to figure out if it's ADHD that's throwing the day off or if I have expected too much, I often think about how long a ps student would spend on a particular subject. Thinking that way helps me get some perspective. At her level, I would be careful spending too much time on math each day. For example, my son works on pre-algebra for around 1 1/2 hours per day, 2 if we do a game. I figure in middle school, they change classes every hour and then have some homework, so 1 1/2 hour on math seems like more than enough. Any work he doesn't complete carries over to the next day, but it is added to the next days assignment. This has helped him take responsibility for his attention span and he has actually decreased the amount of time he spends on math. Then, we are finishing Science before moving on to History. Approx. 5-10 pages of reading with a few comprehension check questions. Now that's with many big pictures, so if you deleted those....actual text reading might be about 4 full sides. We'll finish up with Science and start History mid Jan to mid - May, approx. This sounds like you are doing history as a course currently and when you come to the end history will stop and science will start - am I correct? And are you using an Abeka text book for history? What about science, is that an Abeka text book as well? If I am correct, I have a ton of ideas that will appeal to an auditory learner who also likes hands on, but I wanted to ask those questions to make sure I didn't recommend something that you are already doing! If we have time, which is doubtful as the above can take 3-4 hours, we do spelling review/test, dictation, copywork, penmanship (I'm creative here so these 3 may only take 15-30 min here and it's not everyday). Story writing/creative writing....maybe 1 project a month. Literature reading/read aloud.....not everyday.....I know...there's no consistency here.I may have ideas here, but I would like for you to clarify by what you mean by "language lesson" earlier in your post. In turn, that may help you with consistency, which will help with the ADHD. Art and Music are out the window because I do not have time with her to do these. Understood - covering the basics comes first. Have you thought about doing some of this for fun during the summer? Actually we start the day with devotions/Bible time. Us, too! She's a auditory learner, but I'm going to confirm this. She loves hands on and she is an avid reader. I believe she's a little bit of all! My son is visual - auditory input that is off topic distracts him, so our house is veerrrry quiet during school. With add, adhd kids they need lots of breaks. We no sooner get started than there is a break. That's why the above written in that order can take soooo long in any given day. ADHD kids do need a lot of breaks. Do you have her breaks on a schedule? Scheduling helps ADHD kids with both focus and organization. My son is almost 13 and he works in one hour increments and takes 15 minute breaks between. It has helped him learn how to plan. Our days are by no means perfect (you should see what happens when the cat walks into the room), but scheduling has really helped. It also helped that he figured out on his own how often he needed a break. He has made great strides in his attention since he took on this responsibilty. She is, by God's grace, seizure free for almost 2 years. What a blessing! However, I do think for the 8 months she had symptoms it may have weakened her learning power/reasoning/critical thinking/memory, etc. Have you talked to her neurologist about this? It may be appropriate to do some educational testing. This type of testing often assists in identifying learning strengths as well are weaker areas. You would be able to get some information on how to help her shore up those weaker areas once they are specifically identified. I like Abeka, but it is so tedious.Tedious is no fun! Keep hanging out here and maybe you will find ideas that can spark a love of learning in her!! I look forward to seeing the answers to my questions so that I can brainstorm with. I must admit, brainstorming educational problems/ideas/solutions is one of my favorite hobbies. I think that means I need to get out more:lol:. Edited January 9, 2010 by TechWife spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 Thanks for all of the replies!!! TechWife....you've been so very generous with your effort and time. I need to fix dinner for the night, but will reply to this thread later Sat or Sun. I will say we went to neuropsychologist and he tested her....but he breezed through the assessment and did not offer that much "constructive" advice. I'll answer your other questions so look for an email a tad later. Thanks everyone! Sheryl <>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Abeka is very thorough and repetitive. Of course, that's going to be for an extent. Abeka is just so comprehensive, and I'm wondering if she needs all of that information. Hi Cheryl, Like Elizabeth, I'm wondering what exactly you want to switch. It sounds vaguely like you think a textbook curriculum is not really what you want for her, but you're afraid to switch to a non-textbook curriculum? I think it would be helpful to really think through what you do want and what you don't want. Make some goals, even if they are simple. See if your goals include continuing with textbook or textbook style grades. Or see if they end up being more about spending fewer hours or deeper learning or making her feel successful or heart issues. Do you want to study with her or do you want a lot of independence? Does she need good habits and discipline, or will she succeed with flexibility and change? Does she need to spend more time on writing and less on math? Does she like science and not history? It's a lot to think through but i think worth the time. When I first brought my youngest home, I had Teresa Moon's "Evaluating For Excellence" and she suggested sitting down through every subject and really taking notes on what was going well and what wasn't. That helped me a lot. I also thought about goals as a mother and as a family and as a follower of Christ. If you had some goals, we could probably help you find curriculum better. It's not all that helpful, IMO, to run "away" from something -- better to run "toward" something. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Hi, Sheryl. I will give it my best shot! :D My nephew, Mark (12 yo), is your daughter's twin. He is the exact "list" of traits, and I have tutored him, so I think I can imagine your concerns. Let me try to address the ones I can: 1. Lack of focus/memory issues -- This sounds just like Mark. I think that some of it with him is that his absence seizures really are not under control, but even aside from that, he wanders. He forgets. He looses things. He repeatedly misplaces and/or forgets assignments. My sister has to really "work it" with this son, and sometimes she grows weary. Part of it with Mark, I think, is that he will take longer than some boys to mature. It's hard to explain why I feel this way, but I do, and my sister and my mom agree. It's as if he's 9 years old, or even 7 sometimes! For example, he has a band schedule with all the Practice Groups listed by date. Any "normal" seventh grader could look at this, highlight his group dates, and transfer them to a calendar -- then remember to look at the calendar each week/day, and actually GO TO PRACTICE, right? But Mark really can not or will not do this. It's hard to know which.... Is it his ability, or his attitude, or a combination? I don't know, but my sister and I have discussed this a LOT, and the feeling/strategy is to help him learn how to manage himself, his stuff, his environment, his schedule as much as he seems to need at the time. What if he really IS trying? How frustrating would it be for a 7 year old to be given that schedule/expectation? We try to see it from that POV, while also realizing that he IS twelve -- the balance is hard to achieve. 2. Abeka and Saxon -- Abeka seems like a LOT for this type of kid. Could you be more basic with her? With Mark, when I tutored him, we kept it very simple. He was in 5th grade at the time and could not write a sentence. Copywork was VERY effective in teaching him how written English should look. Spelling material could NOT contain any misspelled words or "editing" type exercises, because the visual image of the misspelled words and incorrect sentences would stay with him. He could only benefit from PERFECT MODELS. Finding the correctly spelled word in the middle of the errors was disastrous for him, as was fixing sentences. He didn't KNOW what the sentences were supposed to look like, he had to LEARN this from perfect models! Thus, the focus of our work was to imitate perfect models -- through painstakingly teacher-intensive handwriting instruction, closely-watched copywork, tactile/auditory/visual approaches to spelling, and repeated reading/recitation of the same material to build verbal fluency. Mark read aloud like a robot. He could read, but it was so flat, so mechanical. He needed to feel it, LOL. I would read aloud to him a fun book, a poem, or something lilting -- The Parrot Tico Tango, Counting Crocodiles, A.A. Milne's poems, something like that -- and then read it again. I'd record myself reading it, burn the CD, and tell him to listen all week, with the book open! Next week, I would ask him to read it. Then he had to read it again and again and again. Then we video-recorded him reading/reciting the selection. Of course, he basically memorized it, ;) but this helped to build fluency. I don't know about Abeka. If I had Mark full-time, I would probably go with: Writing with Ease OR homemade copybooks (using StartWrite) Spelling Power OR All About Spelling Latin/Greek word roots OR a Latin program (yes, I would!) ;) Junior Analytical Grammar AND/OR First Language Lessons, Level 3 Math -- I have no idea what I'd use for this! I never worked with him on math. Readings -- I'd make up a list of good quality reading that he could handle, from the areas of Literature/Poetry, Bible/Theology, Science/Nature Study, and History/Geography. Spelling every day (with alphabetization, dictionary work, study, testing). Grammar 2x/week, Narration 1x/week. Latin/Vocabulary every day. Math every day. Reading from one category every day. HTH. 3. Doing School ALL Day. Don't. Find a way to bring it to about 4-5 hours for this age. HTH! FWIW, my sister is in a nightmare with the ps. My mom thinks Mark would benefit from being homeschooled, but my sister doesn't want to try.... Your daughter is blessed to be home with you. What would school be like for her? I hope some of this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Thanks for all of the replies!!! TechWife....you've been so very generous with your effort and time. I need to fix dinner for the night, but will reply to this thread later Sat or Sun. I will say we went to neuropsychologist and he tested her....but he breezed through the assessment and did not offer that much "constructive" advice. I'll answer your other questions so look for an email a tad later. Thanks everyone! Sheryl <>< My DD2 (2 years old) has epilepsy, and I was going to suggest a neuropsych eval. if you've had one and they breezed through, I'd get a referral for a new one. They can be a really, really valuable resource in planning and understanding your kid's strengths, weaknesses, and prognosis with learning capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share Posted January 10, 2010 I think you certainly could change your programs if you aren't happy with what you are using. Well, I am happy, but I'm not sure it's the best fit for her. She does like Abeka, but it takes all day. School should not be all day! :glare: I wouldn't want to have to spend all day doing school either. For language, are you referring to language arts (grammar, spelling, writing) or a foreign language? Yes, LA. For LA, you might look at Intermediate Language Lessons or maybe MCT island or town levels. It's difficult to advise not knowing her learning style or capabilities, though. Story of the World with the activity guide might be good for history especially for a hands-on child, or maybe History at Our House if she learns well by listening. Oak Meadow's 5th grade (I'm assuming she's in 5th grade) Yes, she's in 5th grade covers American history, if you would rather study that. I'm not sure how to advise you on science, maybe look at Mr. Q's classical science curriculum, Oak Meadow or Sonlight? It might be a good idea to cross-post your questions on the special needs board, too. While take does seem logical....I'm part of the s.n. group and feel comfortable there, but this is not a meds issue, but curricula question. Maybe you should cross post to the Special Needs Board. My step-dd has controlled epilepsy and is in p.s. I don't believe she has any special ed recs, but also does not have the other issues you mention. I might go ahead and "cross" post....it couldn't hurt. But, the emphasis is curricula here. I guess I'm not totally understanding what you're trying to fix, but for the math have you tried doing it in sessions? For instance, break the problems into 2 or 3 sets. Set the timer for 15 minutes (or however long she can focus typically in one sitting) and work hard and focused for that period of time. Race to see if she can get that smaller chunk of the math done in that smaller time period. Then go do some hands-on activity or math or PE or something. Then come back next hour and do another short session on math. Repeat this process, alternating movement and short bursts of academics. See if that helps/ Brilliant Elizabeth. This falls in line with what one of her doctor's told us to do. I think I'll try it starting MONDAY!! You didn't mention what level of math your daughter is doing, my dd is mid way through 5th grade. She went from Saxon math 3 in 3rd grade to saxon math 5/4 in 4th. She did not do well, not failing either, with 5/4 in 4th. That's for advanced 4th graders and beginning 5th graders. Saxon math K,1,2,3 found her getting mid A average. So, I moved her in to 5/4. I should have used saxon math 4 in 4th, but did not. In 5th grade she is repeating saxon math 5/4. so this may not apply to you, but when I read the statements I quoted above, my first thought was Horizons math. Horizons is a spiral program, like Saxon. New concepts are introduced and old concepts are reviewed with each lesson. There are several differences between them, however. Horizons is a colorful workbook, some may find that distracting. My ADHD son did not have any issues with it, he said it kept him engaged. The spiral for Horizons is a lot faster than the spiral for Horizons. This means that new topics are introduced more frequently and it means that old topics are reviewed more frequently. The more frequent review might be more helpful for your daughter. I think this is a wise suggestion and need to seriously check into it. Opinion of BJU math? Like Saxon, there are a lot of problems to do. You could easily have her do half of the problems (choosing, for example, half of each section). If doing all of the problems is more beneficial, you could slow the pace down and have her do 1/2 of the lesson one day, the second half the next day. Good idea, but then she would not finish the math book. It would take 2 years to complete instead of 1 school year. Horizons math is K-6, although in my experience they are a little advanced, so a 7th grader might do 6th grade, etc. Each year is broken down into two parts, so you could choose the last half of a year and then move forward. If she is already taking pre-algebra, however, then Horizons would not be appropriate. Your daughter has a good solid grade in math, so it seems that the Saxon you are doing now might just be the ticket with no need to change. Again, solid advice here. That's true, it may be the style in which I'm teaching it and expectations. Perhaps I need to switch that around first because jumping to another program. I know I am always wondering if there is "something better" out there, so I want to encourage you to stick with the parts of your curriculum that are working for you. It may be a matter of adjusting the volume of work so that her day doesn't take so long. When considering changes, concentrate on the subjects that truly are not working for her before you check out the ones where she is learning to your satisfaction. Try to figure out why a particular subject isn't working and then look for other things to use that help bridge those learning style gaps or provide a different approach. YES, will start this week. As far as science goes, I wanted a good solid program and there honestly are a lot of those out there. The tipping point for me was the way books were set up. I deliberately picked a science curriculum that had a lot of study helps define study helps? built into it because my son has some problems with executive functioning. I am also deliberately working with him on scheduling, routines and responsibilites as well as general study skills in hopes that he will be better prepared for high school course work. These are areas too in which her doctor says she needs help. When you look around at curriculum, be sure to keep in mind not only her learning style, but what your priorities and her priorites for education are concerned. Everyone has different priorities, so don't be afraid to do your own thing!:D ETA: see my response to another post! Everyone wonders from time to time if they are leaving gaps in their kids' education. To be honest, we are all probably leaving gaps! That comes with the territory of education, though. All students' have gaps in their education, I know I did and still do. Don't let this concern be what keeps you from making necessary changes.I am a little confused here. Is it the Abeka subjects + math that are taking all day? How long is "all day?" All day is defined as....off and on from 8 am to 5 pm. We use Abeka LA which she's good at on a good day. Abeka Science and spelling and saxon math. I explained earlier how much is in each subject/day's lesson. Also, what is a language lesson? Is that a foreign language or something else? Described earlier, but it's LA. Is all of her math work either traditional, scripted Saxon meeting time followed by problems to work? Saxon Meeting time ends at 3rd grade. So does the big spiral TE with scripted content. If so, consider mixing it up a bit. Below, you indicate that she is a hands on person, so perhaps some math games might be in order in place of a scripted lesson one or two days a week? When I am thinking about how long a subject should take, which I have to do often to figure out if it's ADHD that's throwing the day off or if I have expected too much, I often think about how long a ps student would spend on a particular subject. Thinking that way helps me get some perspective. At her level, I would be careful spending too much time on math each day. For example, my son works on pre-algebra for around 1 1/2 hours per day, 2 if we do a game. I figure in middle school, they change classes every hour and then have some homework, so 1 1/2 hour on math seems like more than enough. Any work he doesn't complete carries over to the next day, but it is added to the next days assignment. This has helped him take responsibility for his attention span and he has actually decreased the amount of time he spends on math. Yes, I agree in theory, but not in practicality. If she never/hardly finishes her 30 math problems and always carries over, then she'll get further and further behind. This sounds like you are doing history as a course currently and when you come to the end history will stop and science will start - am I correct? And are you using an Abeka text book for history? What about science, is that an Abeka text book as well? Entire year: Language Math Spelling Writing, dictation, penmanship, copywork Bible Misc Fall 2009 and just finishing up this month we focused on Science. We'll finish and then replace with History until May or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share Posted January 10, 2010 If I am correct, I have a ton of ideas that will appeal to an auditory learner who also likes hands on, but I wanted to ask those questions to make sure I didn't recommend something that you are already doing! I may have ideas here, but I would like for you to clarify by what you mean by "language lesson" It's her language lesson...parts of speech, subject/verb agreement, punctuation, etc. Usually an average of 2 sides each day in her student work-text. earlier in your post. In turn, that may help you with consistency, which will help with the ADHD. Understood - covering the basics comes first. Have you thought about doing some of this for fun during the summer? Yes, we started schooling year round 1-2 years ago.....but everyone needs breaks and she and I are no exception. Maybe even more so due to her condition we're working through. Us, too! My son is visual - auditory input that is off topic distracts him, so our house is veerrrry quiet during school. ADHD kids do need a lot of breaks. Do you have her breaks on a schedule? Scheduling helps ADHD kids with both focus and organization. My son is almost 13 and he works in one hour increments and takes 15 minute breaks between. It has helped him learn how to plan. Well, we start at 8 and by 9:30 she gets her first break. Then around 11 am. Then lunch for 1 hour. The breaks her doctor said should be short to make it easier to "pull" her back into schoolwork so they are 10 min at most. Our days are by no means perfect (you should see what happens when the cat walks into the room), but scheduling has really helped. It also helped that he figured out on his own how often he needed a break. He has made great strides in his attention since he took on this responsibilty. What a blessing! Have you talked to her neurologist about this? It may be appropriate to do some educational testing. This type of testing often assists in identifying learning strengths as well are weaker areas. You would be able to get some information on how to help her shore up those weaker areas once they are specifically identified. Her regular neurologist helps with her brain only. However, they suggested a "neuropsychological eval" which was done by a neuropsychologist back in May. He did not offer much insight according to the opinion of yet another doctor so I am going to set up an appt with him to go more in-depth on these very issues. Tedious is no fun! Keep hanging out here and maybe you will find ideas that can spark a love of learning in her!! I look forward to seeing the answers to my questions so that I can brainstorm with. I must admit, brainstorming educational problems/ideas/solutions is one of my favorite hobbies. I think that means I need to get out more . Hi Cheryl, Like Elizabeth, I'm wondering what exactly you want to switch. It sounds vaguely like you think a textbook curriculum is not really what you want for her, but you're afraid to switch to a non-textbook curriculum? Well, I do like the idea of unit studies, is that what you're talking about. But, I believe kids do need to use some textbooks. I'm not really sure what I'm asking myself, that's why I approached this group. I think it would be helpful to really think through what you do want and what you don't want. Make some goals, even if they are simple. See if your goals include continuing with textbook or textbook style grades. Or see if they end up being more about spending fewer hours or deeper learning or making her feel successful or heart issues. Yes, I say this to my friends. I'd rather she have a heart for God and be a happy "C" student, than not be interested in God, unhappy and be an "A" kid. Do you want to study with her or do you want a lot of independence? Both. Does she need good habits and discipline, or will she succeed with flexibility and change? She needs discipline...does not do well with change. Does she need to spend more time on writing and less on math? Does she like science and not history? It's a lot to think through but i think worth the time.She likes all subjects. When she doesn't do well, she says she hates this subject or that. You know it might be her meds which have dulled her capability to learn. This is one idea out there. When I first brought my youngest home, I had Teresa Moon's "Evaluating For Excellence" and she suggested sitting down through every subject and really taking notes on what was going well and what wasn't. That helped me a lot. I also thought about goals as a mother and as a family and as a follower of Christ. If you had some goals, we could probably help you find curriculum better. It's not all that helpful, IMO, to run "away" from something -- better to run "toward" something. I agree not to run away, that's why I posted this thread. I don't know anymore about goals, it's all I can do to just cover and hope/pray the very basics get done in any one day. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share Posted January 10, 2010 Hi, Sheryl. I will give it my best shot! My nephew, Mark (12 yo), is your daughter's twin. He is the exact "list" of traits, and I have tutored him, so I think I can imagine your concerns. Let me try to address the ones I can: 1. Lack of focus/memory issues -- This sounds just like Mark. I think that some of it with him is that his absence seizures really are not under control, but even aside from that, he wanders. He forgets. He looses things. He repeatedly misplaces and/or forgets assignments. My sister has to really "work it" with this son, and sometimes she grows weary. Part of it with Mark, I think, is that he will take longer than some boys to mature. It's hard to explain why I feel this way, but I do, and my sister and my mom agree. It's as if he's 9 years old, or even 7 sometimes! For example, he has a band schedule with all the Practice Groups listed by date. Any "normal" seventh grader could look at this, highlight his group dates, and transfer them to a calendar -- then remember to look at the calendar each week/day, and actually GO TO PRACTICE, right? But Mark really can not or will not do this. It's hard to know which.... Is it his ability, or his attitude, or a combination? I don't know, but my sister and I have discussed this a LOT, and the feeling/strategy is to help him learn how to manage himself, his stuff, his environment, his schedule as much as he seems to need at the time. What if he really IS trying? How frustrating would it be for a 7 year old to be given that schedule/expectation? We try to see it from that POV, while also realizing that he IS twelve -- the balance is hard to achieve. 2. Abeka and Saxon -- Abeka seems like a LOT for this type of kid. Could you be more basic with her? With Mark, when I tutored him, we kept it very simple. He was in 5th grade at the time and could not write a sentence. Copywork was VERY effective in teaching him how written English should look. Spelling material could NOT contain any misspelled words or "editing" type exercises, because the visual image of the misspelled words and incorrect sentences would stay with him. He could only benefit from PERFECT MODELS. Finding the correctly spelled word in the middle of the errors was disastrous for him, as was fixing sentences. He didn't KNOW what the sentences were supposed to look like, he had to LEARN this from perfect models! Thus, the focus of our work was to imitate perfect models -- through painstakingly teacher-intensive handwriting instruction, closely-watched copywork, tactile/auditory/visual approaches to spelling, and repeated reading/recitation of the same material to build verbal fluency. Mark read aloud like a robot. He could read, but it was so flat, so mechanical. He needed to feel it, LOL. I would read aloud to him a fun book, a poem, or something lilting -- The Parrot Tico Tango, Counting Crocodiles, A.A. Milne's poems, something like that -- and then read it again. I'd record myself reading it, burn the CD, and tell him to listen all week, with the book open! Next week, I would ask him to read it. Then he had to read it again and again and again. Then we video-recorded him reading/reciting the selection. Of course, he basically memorized it, but this helped to build fluency. I don't know about Abeka. If I had Mark full-time, I would probably go with: · Writing with Ease OR homemade copybooks (using StartWrite) · Spelling Power OR All About Spelling · Latin/Greek word roots OR a Latin program (yes, I would!) · Junior Analytical Grammar AND/OR First Language Lessons, Level 3 · Math -- I have no idea what I'd use for this! I never worked with him on math. · Readings -- I'd make up a list of good quality reading that he could handle, from the areas of Literature/Poetry, Bible/Theology, Science/Nature Study, and History/Geography. Spelling every day (with alphabetization, dictionary work, study, testing). Grammar 2x/week, Narration 1x/week. Latin/Vocabulary every day. Math every day. Reading from one category every day. HTH. 3. Doing School ALL Day. Don't. Find a way to bring it to about 4-5 hours for this age. HTH! That's why I'm here asking, to find out HOW to do that. FWIW, my sister is in a nightmare with the ps. My mom thinks Mark would benefit from being homeschooled, but my sister doesn't want to try.... Your daughter is blessed to be home with you. What would school be like for her? I hope some of this helps! My DD2 (2 years old) has epilepsy, and I was going to suggest a neuropsych eval. if you've had one and they breezed through, I'd get a referral for a new one. They can be a really, really valuable resource in planning and understanding your kid's strengths, weaknesses, and prognosis with learning capabilities. Yes, she's had one, mentioned above. Hope all continues to go well for your dd!! Thanks. I think you all have all the info. There really isn't anything to add. She goes to bed at 8 - 8:30 and gets up around 7 am....approx. She's actually been MUCH better this week, but I'd like your advice just the same. My dh and I are confident that as we make some changes she'll improve. She's always scored very well on her annual W/J tests. Also, Moms on the s.n. group tell me it may be meds dulling her senses so to speak. Now that she is approaching seizure free next month, the doctors may start talking weaning her now or in the coming year or so...that would be a BLESSING!! I look forward to hearing back from everyone. Thanks. Sheryl <>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 I'm so glad to hear that your daughter has been seizure-free for 2 years, that is wonderful!! I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the specific issues you are facing but I was just reviewing Mastering Mathematics for my own use and it might be just what you need. You can check it out here (there are samples available too). I have loved Horizons math for my elder math wizard son but I picked it up to supplement for my easily distracted younger son. I wonder if the mastery approach might be more effective for your daughter? My son and I both enjoy Classical Writing (we're in Aesop A) and it's a breeze once you get the hang of it. It goes quickly and you can break it up over the week -- (M) read model, talk about grammar rules (T) spelling words (W) outline model (Th) write story. If the long days are hard on you and your daughter, I think I would consider setting time limits that work for you both. It might look like this: 45 minutes of math (time for concept discussion with manipulatives/games/worksheet) 30 minutes of history books read aloud to each other 30 minutes art project while listening to music (I can completely understand why you would put this one off when you are overwhelmed, but I consider it so soothing and great for neural development, I would try to fit it in if possible) 20 minutes of grammar/spelling/writing lunch science project or reading science text or nature walk more reading together Then review what you learned/talked about that day for reinforcement -- maybe while baking together or with Dad when he gets home. Dad could also review math and play math games with her so she gets a slightly different approach from him. I would not spend hours on one subject if it's not going well -- to me that says it's either not the right curriculum or it's just too much right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 You need to stop worrying about her being BEHIND and teach her exactly where she is. If the pace she can work at puts her behind for a while, then it does. If you school 5 days a week, year-round, taking just reasonable breaks here and there (not the whole summer off), it will even out. You shouldn't take off the whole summer for math anyway. You have to teach them where they are, as they are. That's the part you can't change. So your doctor told you to do the very thing I said? Hehe, that's funny. Well it's how I taught my dd at one stage and how other people have done it. See, you just needed a kick in the pants. You need to stop being afraid to modify and just do it. If it means funky sessions that are short and done while she jumps on a trampoline, cool. You need to stop associating that modification with a condemnation that you are doing a bad job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Sheryl, I wanted to let you know I haven't forgotten about you! I just saw this & I need to get to bed, so look for a post from me sometime late tomorrow afternoon. If I can I will reply earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Sheryl, I am working on a reply. It is quite lengthy & I must go to Bible Study tonight. I'll try to get the first part up by 11PM. Sorry it's taking so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetobehome Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 You might try changing just one subject at a time...pick the thing that is most problematic for you or her...sounds like math. Saxon math...can be time consuming for MANY of us. We had tears and about 90 minutes of math DAILY. We switched to another math program, and now it is a pleasant time of our day...and takes much less time, maybe 30-35 minutes for my 4th grader. If you change and decide you liked what you were doing before better, you can always go back! But, for many kids, Saxon isn't a good fit. ANd for others, it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) Hi Sheryl, I think that I may be able to give you some places to start. There is a lot you have said in your responses to other questions and my own that have given me some clues here. I am also hearing some frustration from you as you try to tackle some things. From what I can gather, you are considering two separate, but related things. The first is whether or not you need to change anything about this school year to help your dtr. have shorter, productive school days. The second is whether or not to branch out from the "school in the box" system that you have used up to this point. Additionally, you need to take your daughters' special needs into account as you are planning. Presuming I am correct, lets begin with trying to rescue your daughters school year. The Rescue Let's try to rescue your daughters’ school year. Up first, is her ADHD controlled w/meds or do existing meds need to be consdered or adjusted? This is of primary importance. Next, consider what she really needs to do this year - what is the "minimum" acceptable to get through the school year? Abeka has all kinds of subects for everyone to do, but since we’re attempting a rescue, we must look at her curriculum from a different direction. I'll start with an easy one and then move to the harder ones: Penmanship – Does she have legible penmanship? If she does, she no longer needs to practice penmanship. Drop it. If she doesn’t have legible penmanship, then take her for an OT evaluation and follow those recommendations – Abecka isn’t a remedial course and won’t address fine motor problems. Spelling – Generally speaking, does she spell accurately? If she does, give her the last test in the book. If she does fine, then drop spelling as a subject. She will have plenty of opportunities to spell as she does her other work & if you see a pattern of difficulty for her, you can address the targeting spelling rule. If you decide to keep her working on spelling, consider doing it orally. Generally, oral work is faster than written work for spelling. Math – This is easier to work on than it may seem. Cut the number of problems you require her to complete in half. If you have her do all of the problems, then have her only do odd or even numbered problems. If you already have her doing the odds or evens, then change that to ½ of the odds or evens. If she misses a lot of problems, you have plenty left for her to work on the next day, after you have tutored her on the concepts that she had problems with. If she doesn’t need review, then move along to the next section the following day. There is no need for her to complete all of the problems. Trust me, there are very few people in the homeschool world (or public school, for that matter) who have their students complete all of the problems in a section. Math is a subject that must be mastered in incrementally. Each new piece of information builds on that which comes before it. Therefore, make sure that you are taking a mastery approach with her (it sounds like you are). It's okay to have a student take longer than a traditional school length year to finish a course, especially when the alternative is to finish a course, move on to the next course and fail it because the student doesn't have the prerequisite information needed to succeed. Language – what you are calling language, most of us call grammar, so if I slip up and use the word “grammar,” that’s why. Remember I told you we were starting easy and moving to hard? The decisions just got a little bit harder. Remember we are in rescue mode, right? So, think about this – does a fifth grader really need to know the parts of speech? Isn’t this something she can pick up later on? The definitions don’t change. If dropping Language/grammar will save you a lot of anguish, then drop it – it isn’t a tragedy. If you decide to keep it, then look at the curriculum to see if there is anything you can eliminate. Are there a lot of review questions that she doesn’t need? Are there a lot of repetitive questions, requiring the same skill set? Feel free to drop anything and everything that she has mastered or doesn’t need to practice repeatedly. Remember, you are staging a rescue. Science – I can’t tell from your posts if she is reading/answering questions independently, with you or a combination of the two, so I am shooting in the dark a little bit. You also don’t say exactly how much you have left before you switch to history, so this may be a moot point. I recommend you look at the material you have left to cover – show her the topics and ask her what she is most interested in, then cover those topics. Again, oral work may be the way to go with this, especially if she really is auditory. Read a section/chapter to her, discuss the related questions and you’re done. Perhaps every other section, have her write out her answers instead of doing them orally, but mix it up some. Doing it the same way every time can be frustrating. Find a few experiment kits related to the topics she is interested in and let her loose doing those. Make sure they are on her level, not above. I don’t know what tests look like in Abeka science – if you want to give her those, give them to her as open book. Remember, this is a rescue, not the ideal world. If you want to, and you have time, go to the library, check out some books on the topics you are skipping and the topics she likes, leave them lying around the house & if she wants to, she’ll read them, if not, no big deal. History – Again, I will be shooting in the dark a bit, this time because I am not familiar with Abeka history. I am not a big fan of history textbooks at this age. Taking into account that you are conducting a rescue mission, drop Abeka. Seriously. Get a copy of Story of the World for the time period you would have been covering in Abeka and use that instead. It is very easy to read and understand. If she is auditory, get the CD’s for her to listen to. You can do that anywhere, in the car or with a pair of earphones on the couch. You can even any other kids listen in with her. I can’t imagine Abeka history containing more history than any volume of SOTW, or it being delivered in a more understandable format. Dictation/Copywork – What you do with these depends in part on what you have decided to do with some of the subjects that are discussed above, as well as the reason you are having her do these activities. If she is still doing penmanship, then drop any kind of copy work. I am not sure what you are currently having her dictate, so this is a little difficult for me to tackle. If she is writing down answers to short answer or discussion questions (not multiple choice or fill in the blank) for science, history or language/grammar then, in my opinion, she does not need to do dictation as she is already getting her thoughts onto paper on her own. If you are only doing questions orally with her and never have her write the answers, then begin to have her do that and you will be able to drop dictation. Continued in section two! © 2010 Edited January 13, 2010 by TechWife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) Continued from a previous post: Writing – I am assuming two things here. First, you are using an Abeka book of some sort for this. Second, you are referring to composition, not handwriting or anything else. This is the age to really help her begin to organize her writing if you haven’t already. Figure out where your starting point is. Can she write a clear sentence? Can she write a complete paragraph w/a topic sentence, two or three supporting statements and a concluding sentence? Can she write two or three solid paragraphs on one topic? Once you figure out where her starting point is, turn to the appropriate section of the writing book and start there. Ignore everything else. Again, look at the assignments and make sure they make sense to you – feel free to drop anything you see as repetitive. If she is at a point where she is learning how to write a good solid sentence, you could go through the section of the writing book on that, then use the Q & A on her history and science to help her practice this skill and work towards mastery. If she is working on paragraphs, have her work on paragraphs that answer some of the short answer questions in those same subjects. If you choose to do it that way, then you can drop a big part of the writing curriculum because you are writing in other areas, and that is what writing is supposed to teach her how to do. You would simply start seeing her writing book as a reference book, not as something to be completed in its entirety. Work on gaining enough time in your day (by implementing some of the other ideas) so that you can spend about 20-30 minutes on writing every day if you do it as a separate subject. Literature/Reading - if your daughter does not read independently, then have her evaluated and follow recommendations to remediate this. If she does read near grade level or above, then make sure she is always reading a real book. Talk to her about the book. Who are the characters? Which is her favorite? Why? Where is the book taking place? Describe the setting (Oh, in her bedroom. Does is say what her bedroom is like? Neat, a special bed for the family cat. etc.) What is the big idea (moral) behind the book? Did she like the way the book turned out? What kind of book is this? Is it science fiction? Poetry? Narrative? Biographical? The Schedule - there are several places where you mention somewhat of a sporadic schedule. Generally speaking, ADHD folks need structure. It really isn't optional. You already have a wake up time, a school start time and a bedtime established, so use that as a framework. Schedule regular breaks. By that, I mean that she she should have a break before she needs one. You mentioned that your first block of time is 1 1/2 hours. That is a long time, especially if it includes Bible and Math. Can you do Bible and then have her read to fill out an hour, then take a break, come back and do math? Is there something else you could pair with Bible to get a better breaking point? Think about how a school day is structured - there are natural pauses during the day, especially when students change classes. However, these pauses, or breaks, have limits. The students can't go outside and run wild. They must still stay within the bounds of the school. At home, such boundaries might look like this: at break time, you may go get dressed, get a drink, pet the cat and/or draw (whatever is appropriate for her). Then, if you need give her a specific limit to keep her from getting too distracted, you can do that as well (ex. no rollerblades during break). Limiting her activities should help her keep her focus on her school work. Set a timer and require her to be ready to get to work when the timer goes off. Be consistent with the timing and the break length. I gave an example in another post that my son works for an hour then takes a fifteen minute break, something like that may work. In the past, he has done breaks by subject - Bible & reading, break, math, guitar practice, lunch, grammar and history, break, and so on to the end of the day. Phew, that was a lot. I am out of breath, figuratively speaking. Tomorrow I will work on part two of this – The Renovation. I'll try to give you some tips to help you evaluate where to go from here and determine what curriculum changes, if any, you want to make for the following school year. Be warned, renovations can be complicated and you can expect delays. The benefit, though, is that you get to choose what things look like from there on out! Hang on. I hope this is helpful to you. © 2010 Edited January 13, 2010 by TechWife tried to fix font, but I failed. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathkath Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 YOu may want to look at mathonthelevel.com. It's a very different math program for k-8 that was written by a former special education teacher who homeschools her own kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Sheryl, I am working on a reply. It is quite lengthy & I must go to Bible Study tonight. I'll try to get the first part up by 11PM. Sorry it's taking so long. OK, it's up. I sequenced it under your original post because it addresses many areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 You might try changing just one subject at a time...pick the thing that is most problematic for you or her...sounds like math. Saxon math...can be time consuming for MANY of us. Saxon isn't a good fit. ANd for others, it is. Cathy Duffy on Saxon Math K-3 on her website: The bottom line is that the program does teach math and does use some good methods to do so, but it might not be the most efficient way to accomplish your goals. Just curious, did you start out with Abeka Math and then switch to Saxon? I am scared to death of Abeka Aritmetic 3. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Wow. Thanks! Techwife, you have offered so much valuable wisdom and I'm humbled and grateful for your insight and effort to share with me! I'll address a few of your specifics later today. Well, yes, it is grammar...Abeka calls it Language at this grade level. I have "not" started paragraph writing yet. It was suggested to me by the Write Shope authors to "master" sentence writing still at this age, which does make sense. I'll start paragraph writing at the beginning of 6th/Sept. Spelling she does very well, but when she had seizures she lost a year, so she's behind. Science, we will finish end of NEXT week. Approx. Jan. 25 we'll begin History and finish "around" May/June. To the other poster, I've ALWAYS used Saxon math and she always rec'd A's until the onset of her seizures which caused a glitch. However, for one month, Sept, we tried Abeka Math. It was VERY difficult for "her" because they are fast forward in their approach. They were teaching beginning division I think at the beginning of 3rd grade. My dd did not have her times table down sufficiently to begin that. So, back to Saxon. Saxon is very complete and more difficult that TT. But, I never wanted to switch b/c she has always been able to "get it". Abeka was more of an experiment. On another note, she was like a completely different child yesterday, behaviorally speaking. An angel. We did try breaking math into problem sets of 10 each and she had 3 sets. So, we'll try that this week. 10 math problems, off to do something else or 2 small things as you suggested and short break. Her psychiatrist said not to give real long breaks b/c it's hard for her to "re-focus" when she comes back to work. But, you and her dr are still pretty much saying the same thing. Unfortunately, she missed 6 out of 30 math problems yesterday. As I type this she is "correcting" those 6, then off to today's math and the rest of her work. She had to correct some language and she has completely forgotten how to diamgram. She's GREAT at her parts of speech and diagramming. So, go figure. She could actually teach someone language b/c she's so good at it. Now she forgets! :confused: She's been on 2 new meds since Aug/Sept for behavior. From what someone had on the s.n. board I may see if I can get one of those meds adjusted. She's been on anti-epilepsy meds for over 2 years. The first 6 months the meds were adjusted a bit so they were not under control. Then on Feb. 5, 2007 that was her first day of being seizure free which continues to this day. Next month will be 2 years under control and no seizures! With that said seizure meds and behavioral meds can help improve some areas, but they can also worsen the very areas they are trying to correct. We have an appt in a couple of weeks with her neurologist and we'll find out then if they will start the weaning process of her meds. The protocol is meds and seizure free (clinically confirmed) for 2 years then they start to wean the patient. My dd is going on 11 in May and is pre-puberty which can contribute towards staving off the seizures. In other words, it "can" get better or worse going through puberty. I'm 50/50 about whether they will wean. They may try it and extend the weaning process to last a little bit until she's older. But, I'm guessing, we'll find out soon and I'll post on s.n. board when I find out something. THANK YOU SO MUCH! I'll answer more later and I look forward to hearing from ya again. Sheryl <>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) The Renovation In my last post, I talked about having two goals: one being to adjust the current school year to make it more efficient and two, looking at branching out from your current curriculum, Abeka. This post will cover the second of those two goals.After you have completed the rescue, you can start working on your renovation. If you do this out of order, it is doable, but will be more frustrating. This post will be much more general in nature - there isn’t much specific advice that can be given until you figure out more about where your daughter is and then where you want to take her. The renovation phase is a process. You will need to do several things, some of which can be carried out simultaneously, others which need to be done at a particular time. This phase will take time, don’t rush through it, but at the same time, don’t become so overwhelmed that you let the task paralyze you to the point that you do not make any decisions. You may undertake this process and find yourself deciding that the way you are doing things is what you need to continue doing and that is a fine decision as long as it is an informed decision. The benefit is that you will be able to provide a truly personalized education for your daughter. First, you need to take a look at the neuropsychological evaluation that has already been completed. If it is more than two years old, have it repeated. If it is not more than two years old, but you don’t find it helpful after you take another look at it, then you can either make an appointment with the dr. who completed it to get further information or you can have another evaluation completed by another provider. This is very important – it will help you figure out where your daughter is so that you can select the appropriate materials to help her learn. If you haven’t started a care notebook for your daughter, now is a good time to do so. This is a place where you can record various appointments with her care team, who she saw, what was discussed and any changes in medication that were made. You can also use this to record side effects and any questions/concerns that you want to address at coming appointments. Second, you will need to do a lot of research. This will be in two areas, learning needs and educational. You can begin your research while you are waiting for additional information from the evaluation. The first area will be in any diagnoses (dx) that your daughter received on the first evaluation. Finding general information on strengths and weaknesses typical to the dx will give you some ideas for different approaches you can take to reach her. Find reputable sources – internet sources ending in .edu and .gov will have the most reliable, objective information for you. Those ending in .com and .org will often have good information as well, but it is often presented to support the company or organization that is posting it, so it may only be part of the story. Try to find some local people to talk to as well – there are many different types of support groups out there. Of course books, journals and magazines also include much information. Researching the educational materials provided will be great fun (at least I think it’s fun). You haven’t said how long you’ve been homeschooling, so I’m going to pretend that you are fairly new and need lots of information. Notebook – get a 5 subject notebook for all of the notes you are going to be taking – it’s portable and can go anywhere with you. General Information - You will need to gather and read some general information on homeschooling. Read Cathy Duffy’s book 100 Top Picks for Homeschooling Curriculum – Choosing the Right Curriculum and Approach for Your Child’s Learning Style. This book is readily available from chain bookstores and from online book sellers. It provides information on how to choose curriculum, determining your educational philosophy and learning styles. Then, the books gets into it’s title – Ms. Duffy’s 100 best picks for curriculum. This will give you a fantastic overview of some of the best materials available to homeschoolers. Observe – watch your daughter carefully as she does her work. What subjects/areas/activities frustrate her? How are the materials she is using designed? Do a couple of her lessons yourself – can you easily find the information you need to complete the assignments? Is the information written on a level that your daughter can understand? Are the questions appropriate for her level? Are they stretching her just a bit, or do they make her pull her hair out? Take her out for lunch or a special coffee and ask her questions – what does she like? What does she want to learn more about? How would she like to learn it if she had a choice? Would she like to read more? Field trips (electronic or otherwise)? Books on subjects? Are there any topics around that she would like to learn more about? Ask her specific questions – would you like more hands on science activities? Would you like to read book set about the historical information you are learning? Take her to a science fair to see the displays (these will be coming up in Feb & March, check your county school system and local homeschool groups – if you live near the state fair, go to that one as well). What are her passions? Does she like animals? Music? Reading? The more you can figure out about her and how she learns the better informed your choices will be. Write down everything she says, even if you can’t figure out how you would make it fit right now. As you continue your research, you may see some pieces fall into place. Prioritize – based upon the info. You have learned to date from your general research, observations and the neurological evaluation, sit down and as best you can, determine the prominent learning styles of your daughter. At this time, you also need to begin to articulate your educational philosophy. Also, begin to think forward – determine what your daughter will need to do to prepare for high school (these aren’t always academic subjects but can include social skills, spiritual goals, study skills and life skills). Be sure to think about her likes/dislikes – students typically take an elective in the middle school years. Now, notice that you can’t determine what needs to be done to prepare for high school until you figure out where she is now, hence the need for the eval. & other general research you will have done up to this point. Specific Curriculum - After you have read 100 Top Picks, grab a cup of tea and some chocolate, and read through the K-8 curriculum board here. When you do this, first use the search function to look up the most interesting things you found in the 100 Top Picks book. In those posts, you will read the good, the bad and the ugly! You will also be exposed to other materials that posters will mention as alternatives to the material the post was about. Don’t get overwhelmed – you are still gathering information. Other resources – some good resources include Practical Homeschooling, a magazine with an online component, and The Old Schoolhouse Magazine. You will also want to look for posts by the TOS Homeschool Review Crew at homeschoolblogger – they see some pretty interesting stuff. Convention - Now, as you are ready the Duffy book and looking on the internet, be sure to find out when the homeschool convention in your state takes place. Register and make hotel reservations now – it’s that time of year already. Remember, you are doing a renovation. You wouldn’t choose a couch over the internet, would you? No, you’d go to the furniture store, sit on it, kick it, turn it upside down and figure out what fabrics are available. It’s the same with homeschool curriculum. The more you can get your hands on and explore, the greater understanding you will have about how each one of them works and you will better able to compare them to one another. Consider this professional development – in addition to the exhibit hall, you will be able to attend a variety of seminars where you can learn from others who have been down the road ahead of you. Catalogs – get on the internet and order free catalogs. The must haves would be: Rainbow Resource Center, Veritas Press, Sonlight and Home Science Tools. Other good ones to get would be Timberdoodle, Christian Book Distributers, Usborne Books, Discover for Kids, BJU, Winter Promise, My Father’s World and Carolina Biological Supply. When the catalogs arrive, read them thoroughly. Write in them – mark what you like and what you don’t like. Write questions in the margins so you can look for the answers. Then, remember to go look for the answers! Continued in next post. © 2010 Edited January 13, 2010 by TechWife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) Continued from previous post. List – in your notebook (remember the notebook you started when you started researching?) List the topics and/or subjects that you want to cover in the coming year. Then put the subject/topic names at the top of a blank page, one page for each topic. As you are reading and researching, you will come across items/curricula/books that stand out to you – you really like them and/or really need more information. List these here w/appropriate catalog pg. numbers and/or web addresses, their cost and anything else you want to make sure you remember. You will take these lists with you to convention. Big Picture – As you are making your lists and before you make final decisions, be sure to back up and look at the big picture. Does this fill the need? Does it fit the budget? Is it the right mix of teaching/independent learning for the student and the family situation? If any of these answers is no, then consider whether or not you can adapt the curriculum to fit your needs. Do you have time to think about the adaptations? Do you really want that super expensive literature curriculum but can’t afford it? What if you purchased the teacher materials and got the books from the library – would that make it workable? Don’t be afraid to be creative when you look at things. Look at the big picture – Can you save money in one subject to splurge in another? Think of time the same way – will using this material save time that can be better used doing math? Will the time needed to work on this project/experiment be worth minimizing the amount of time spent on grammar that week? Decide and order - Now, after you have good information on your daughters’ needs, have done some good general research, researched curriculum and other materials available and gone to convention, at some point you will begin to make decisions. If you are the kind of person who puts of decision making as much as possible, then set a deadline for yourself. What day is the official start of the school year? Plan to get your materials no later than 3 weeks before the start of the school year, earlier if possible. Allow 5-15 days for shipping and you have your decision deadline. So what do you need to choose? 1)One primary book for each subject area. We call this a spine. This is the book that will drive your studies in that particular subject. It may be an encyclopedia, a textbook, a reference book or a set of dvd’s or videos. If you select a curriculum package (My Father’s World, Winter Promise, Sonlight, etc.) it will come with a spine. 2) Instructor Guides/Teacher Manuals/Leader Manuals as needed. 3)Workbooks, activity guides and/or lab books needed 4)Supplemental materials – this is where my budget always hurts! If there was a book you really wanted but was not part of the curriculum you chose, go ahead and get it so that you can fold it into your curriculum – maybe it was the book with the really clear explanations of the animal kingdom, or the awesome pictures of Egypt and Rome. Or, maybe it was a game, a coloring book or other fun thing to have on hand. These items can often bring a lot of relief on rainy days when you’ve already been inside for a week or during the dog days of summer when you can’t spend terribly long amounts of time in the sun. 5)School supplies – don’t forget to get notebook paper, pens, pencils, colored pencils, graph paper, binders, erasers, etc. I find if I don’t put it on my list, I often miss it during the awesome back to school sales. Evaluate - After you receive your curriculum, set aside a teacher workday, if possible. Look through all of your instructor guides, teacher manuals, lab books, etc. Read the contents, the appendices, headings, etc. to become familiar with the setup. As you do this, start two more lists. The first list is a list of materials that you will need to get from the library and an estimate of when you will need them. Check the library catalog to see if your library has them or if you are going to need to request them by ILL , which takes longer. This way you can plan ahead. The second list is a list of items you will need to buy. Books which are not available through your library or that you can’t borrow from friends. Is a compass needed for math? What about any specialty papers or art supplies? Craft materials to carry out projects? All of these go on this list. I purchase as much as I can before my school year starts. If you are not buying ahead, then note the approximate date when you will need the materials so that you can get them ahead of time. Enjoy - After you have made your decisions, the rest is really fun. Try not to second guess yourself, but, if you find that you ordered something that upon examination, you absolutely know will not work for your student, return it to the supplier (make sure you know the return policies before you buy) and get the next thing on your list. The next thing you will need to do is come up with a plan – how are you going to get it all done? But, one thing at a time! Happy Homeschooling © 2010 Edited January 13, 2010 by TechWife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Part 2: The Renovation is up. Look under the responses for the op. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luna Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Sheryl, I am still having similar struggles with my dd. She has been seizure free for many years now, for which I am so very grateful. She does continue to have learning problems that the neuro said are very common in children with epilepsy. After being tested at age 10, we were told that children with her learning problem have difficulty remembering things they've learned one day to the next. I was so sad yet relieved to hear that. I felt terribly for getting angry when I knew she had learning something and could do it one day, but not the next. After that appointment, I knew Saxon was not for us. I believe Abeka follows a similar approach, learning a new concept each day while reviewing what has already been learned. We switched to Math U See and now use that with TT. She is still behind grade level in math and I will be thrilled to get her through Algebra 2 before she finishes high school! She doesn't complete as much as I would like on any given day, but I also have to keep my sanity as well as hers! She is progressing in language arts, using R&S and CW. She, too, is bright, she just has a lot of anxiety and challenges getting in the way! For me, I could never teach that many hours in a day and imagine it would cause her to be miserable. Instead, we try to fit other learning into the day with games, reading together, history movies, etc. that make it much more pleasant for both of us. Hope that helps a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 Sheryl,I am still having similar struggles with my dd. She has been seizure free for many years now, for which I am so very grateful. She does continue to have learning problems that the neuro said are very common in children with epilepsy. After being tested at age 10, we were told that children with her learning problem have difficulty remembering things they've learned one day to the next. I was so sad yet relieved to hear that. I felt terribly for getting angry when I knew she had learning something and could do it one day, but not the next. After that appointment, I knew Saxon was not for us. I believe Abeka follows a similar approach, learning a new concept each day while reviewing what has already been learned. We switched to Math U See and now use that with TT. She is still behind grade level in math and I will be thrilled to get her through Algebra 2 before she finishes high school! She doesn't complete as much as I would like on any given day, but I also have to keep my sanity as well as hers! She is progressing in language arts, using R&S and CW. She, too, is bright, she just has a lot of anxiety and challenges getting in the way! For me, I could never teach that many hours in a day and imagine it would cause her to be miserable. Instead, we try to fit other learning into the day with games, reading together, history movies, etc. that make it much more pleasant for both of us. Hope that helps a bit. Katherine! Hi. I've been wanting to email you for the longest time as I think of you often. I'll catch up with you in "email". Blessings! Sheryl Part 2: The Renovation is up. Look under the responses for the op. Tech Wife! I am blessed beyond words. Thanks so much for your generous insight, effort, etc. Also, I went to your blog. I do believe I'm hard headed with some of these issues, which I feel God is changing a bit. It would be to the benefit of my dd and myself. It will take some time for me to read, re-read, glean and go forward with your suggestions....it is very thorough which is exactly what I need! Thanks so much! Sheryl Blessings to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 It will take some time for me to read, re-read, glean and go forward with your suggestions....it is very thorough which is exactly what I need! Thanks so much! Sheryl Blessings to you! I'm glad it's meeting a need for you! Let me know if I can do anything else. Feel free to send a pm to me if you'd rather talk privately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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